(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins! - Post Game is up!

[Shinori]

HEHE WHOOPS.

My point still stands just swap refa with cam in my above post.

SB slot should still be lynched(Sorry new frand)

And associative reads are harder to gain from certain things.

[Ichigo]

28 minutes ago, j00 said:

Tbh I think the lost wolf thing might make scum more fun for several people here. Many of our players typically enjoy being town or itp more than scum, and being a scum not knowing your team mates let's you essentially play with an itp mindset. It's easier to fake town sentiment.

Oh. I didn't realize that the Consigliere would not know their team, while their team would know the Consigliere. Lost wolf is typically the other way around: the lone person knows their full team while the rest don't know who the lost wolf is.

I get what people are saying now, but it seems Consigliere could choose to join their team at any time (thouh losing an advantage)

[j00]

@Ichigo We're not actually sure if consigliere is that, as far as I know we haven't used that term on SF before.

[Percivalé]

heres the description of consigliere from the epicmafia wiki

Consigliere
Appears as everyone to villager.
Can convert self to mafia once per game.
Does not attend mafia meetings.

[Bluedoom]

Iris must be so happy with our confusion with just card flips, huh?

[Shinori]

That is a role I could see more like than what we have discussed.

[j00]

Do you really think Cam would voluntarily convert himself to mafia?

Anyway, I agree that we should put less weight on associate reads on Cam compared to Refa today, as we're not sure about the context.

[Percivalé]

I won't speculate more beyond this cuz it's gone on for a while lmao but if consigliere works exactly the way it worked on em that means town probably does have alignment cop that didn't counterclaim refa. but that's only if the role was directly copypasted from em

I used to play so much em it was a cesspool but it was my cesspool 💔 RIP

[Conqueror]

Hello, host announcement.

Duskfall98’s account cannot make any more posts currently due to an error in SF software. We’ve encountered this issue previously, and will contact a SF admin to resolve it asap. Thanks for understanding.

 

 

[j00]

lol

[Bluedoom]

Unlimited align cop seems too high powered though, if it exists

 

I'd expect limited shot like how bt's hijack

[Bluedoom]

*like how bt's hijack was 1x

[Shinori]

Eh, we've had unlimited alignment cop plenty of times in the past.

[j00]

@Iris I think you forgot to update the dead player list with Cam.

[BBM]

@Snike  Reasons for finding someone scummy evolving is how it's supposed to work. It would be tunneling if my reasons WEREN'T evolving and I was still saying "remember how snike didn't have a good Marth case", when that was in the first half of d1 and there's way more alignment-indicative things that both you and other people are doing.

Fair enough regarding your posts re: Rapier, I guess I misunderstood them. Why do you think refa chose to vote rapier instead of weapons if rapier is scum? 

[BBM]

Ftr we've had a role in an eclipse game (healer?) where Manix was mafia and didn't know it and it wasn't announced as bastard (probably should have been). But again I think it's pretty likely from Cam's weapons vote that he knew Refa was scum. A role that makes it so that you know the scumteam and therefore can't simulate a town mindset, but where you also can't talk to your buddies, would be the literal worst of both worlds. I legit think that's more actively detrimental in a forum mafia setting than the godfather benefit you would get

I feel like because the primary target ATM is someone who just subbed in people are just waiting around engaging in rolespec instead of trying to see if anyone else is scum too and have already locked themselves into duskfall for the day 

 

@Duskfall98 when you can post just claim imo.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

24 minutes ago, BBM said:

Ftr we've had a role in an eclipse game (healer?) where Manix was mafia and didn't know it and it wasn't announced as bastard (probably should have been). But again I think it's pretty likely from Cam's weapons vote that he knew Refa was scum. A role that makes it so that you know the scumteam and therefore can't simulate a town mindset, but where you also can't talk to your buddies, would be the literal worst of both worlds. I legit think that's more actively detrimental in a forum mafia setting than the godfather benefit you would get

I feel like because the primary target ATM is someone who just subbed in people are just waiting around engaging in rolespec instead of trying to see if anyone else is scum too and have already locked themselves into duskfall for the day 

 

@Duskfall98 when you can post just claim imo.

I feel like Cam could’ve just scum read Refa

[Bluedoom]

Tbh my solve has been like duskfall and then the last one probably Elierad. If not them... Hm. I want to say that if I'm wrong about rapier/weapons then its rapier.

 

I've thought about scum!boron, and that should be possible wrt her vote and case mostly being makaze on d1 and voting off wagon at the end, but I feel like its very weird for scum!boron to argue with me over why she didn't put down a vote on refa earlier and then put it down on him anyway.  I also feel like some of refa's responses feel weird going at a scum buddy in this manner, i can quote some of them when I'm pc. But that's how I'm feeling about it right now. 

 

I was sure that snike was scum coming into this day phase but I feel like his d2 has been distinctly different from his d1 where he's showing actual change in his reads/progressions that are being informed by the flips. Granted that a lot of his reads are town reads(i don't really fault him for this) but what do you think of that @BBM?

[j00]

33 minutes ago, BBM said:

I feel like because the primary target ATM is someone who just subbed in people are just waiting around engaging in rolespec instead of trying to see if anyone else is scum too and have already locked themselves into duskfall for the day

I want to hear from the subs because I wouldn't rule out Elie and SB slots being the rest of scum. We can discuss the rest of PoE too but honestly I don't have very strong feelings on the rest of you.

I don't agree with all of Shinori and Snike's reads and takes but I feel fine about their interactions, and Shinori is crumbing a PR and Snike says he's willing to be eliminated for the sake of the game if that's what it takes to solve it. I don't want Shinori to claim and I don't want to elim Snike so I don't want to push them currently.

[Shinori]

Scum!Snike saying they are willing to die to be solved is something they have done before as scum.  So take that stuff with a grain of salt.

I think there are other things about their posts though that feel genuine.

[j00]

Snike feels like he's been a bit all over the place this game, idk but it feels like his confusion is genuine? I'm not opposed to eventually lynching him for PoE but it's not something I want to prioritize now. 

[BBM]

I guess that makes sense j00. Maybe I'm overthinking it in terms of it not just being the inactives because it feels boring 

Marth, I mean I see your point but think it isn't very alignment indicative? I think anyone as both town and scum are going to take flips into account. 

[j00]

Well, we could always go back to rolespec for some hot takes. Do you think SK or vig is more likely? I can sorta see Cam as a target for either.

It's WIFOM but I can see Cam as a vig target though not the obvious one, while I think SK would have gone for a more obvtown target after a scumflip.

[Bluedoom]

ya I hear you bbm, I honestly dunno how to register his change this phase but I get what you're saying.

I think vig is more likely j00. Or maybe it is the cope. SK in a revival game would make me annoyed tbh. I think Cam was an obvious vig target after Refa's flip but maybe that's just me since I took notes from Prims' last post and had those in my thoughts last night

[Rapier]

9 hours ago, Makaze said:

What I've seen here is *a lot* of talking to your top scumread, Refa, and considering his questions, with the tone that he is town. You say flart out that you can't/don't have questions for Refa. When you go after Sunwoo, it's far more aggressive and accusatory to their face. Compare that to your treatment of Refa there is a major disconnect. You don't question Refa. You unvote rather than vote for Refa when Rapier is the top wagon. Your final vote, at the tail end of a wagon that you let others champion, is "I'm sorry if I'm wrong".

Here's the scenario I read: It was distancing, not bussing. You went after him early for bad reasons, expecting to be able to back off. You did back off. You got forced to commit in the end.

tldr on an ISO I can see how i could be wrong but there is no way im basing it on plausibility

That's similar to what I've been saying and how I've been feeling about Marth this entire game so far, but I still find it weird that scum!Marth would distance himself from Refa with a noncommital vote back in early D1, then on late D1 with the obvious risk of getting Refa lynched he just backed down from going toward me or Weapons instead. My case was far too easy to sheep as he admits, but he chooses not to due to tone reading. Scum could just jump on this opportunity and fly under the radar because he already criticized my content before and there were other people sharing those sentiments in my wagon (iirc BBM and Refa).

I'm reading ISOs manually and this is taking far too much time. The script says it can't read 99% of the pages and I've redownloaded it twice. I miss when I could just search for every post from a member in a thread through the search engine, but it also asks for words I'm searching for.

9 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

At this point in the game we have 2 scum already down, so a N2 vig shot on Makaze wouldn't be throwing the game. (Any later than N2 though ... yeah, probably.)

Also, a single stubborn townie can absolutely fuck things up later in the game. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where we are in MYLO/LYLO and Makaze is one of the townies left. What happens if scum is someone Makaze thinks is town, and what if (one of) the remaining town is someone he thinks is scum, like Marth? Can we have faith that he won't just vote Marth no questions asked because he's so confident and refuses to reconsider?

This scenario gets even riskier if after N2 there are more than 1 scum still present in the game, or if multiple townies aren't able to make deadline and aren't available to switch votes as needed.

I think this scenario is very unlikely, at least on D2. We almost hammered Duskfall despite Makaze lmao

 

Also I'm ok with the reasons for voting Duskfall so far but I don't think it was productive to park a vote there for so long when we have 6-8 players constantly interacting on the thread. For lynch, ok, understandable, but for pressing more content it feels unnecessary and convenient after the first three votes.