Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[Elieson]

4 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Elie kind of feels like he's partially forcing his case on Eury to an extent

Fun fact.

I was.

[Sunwoo]

So, uh, Elie, just to make things clear. Is part of your issues with Eury that you think she's "fear mongering" by not taking decisive enough stances on people, in your POV?

[Shinori]

A lot of what Eury said is like true and I don't take it as fear mongering.

I shouldn't be read as town for helping a newer player understand the most basic levels of mafia.

[JamieIsBored]

I can post normally now yay!

1 hour ago, Bartozio said:

I'm still the biggest wagon right now (I think)

Yep, my notes are saying it's you on three, Defying Fates, Eurykins and Bluedoom on 2. Then Sunwoo, Percivalé, Weapons, Shinori and myself on 1. 

1 hour ago, Bartozio said:

Kind of similar to the two above with not saying too much.

I could only post twice a day lol, should be fixed now. 

1 hour ago, Bartozio said:

Feel free to explain.

Sure! 
I picked up DefyingFates' not responding to anything game related and looked over their slot again. I wanted to look over the start of the game a bit more with the interaction with Shinori and him, while intially I thought it was towny (mainly because I've had a couple games recently where newb!town have also announced they were going to refrain from voting), I went back over it and realised they were different circumstances to what I'd seen before. With DefyingFates' post being like one of the first posts of the thread, it's quite different from what I've seen where these newb!town would pop in around EoD because they weren't confident with reads. Then as has been said a few times, it becomes more anti-commital than newb!town.   

[j00]

3 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Actually I considered joining it at some point, but it really felt like wagoning just to wagon. I mean I guess maybe that was the play just to help move things along, but even that felt likely pointless. I see what people are saying about Bart, but it feels more like people trying to latch onto something more than anything else.

Still catching up, but yeah I admit that this is largely part of the reason I voted Bart. The game had been going on for what, 20 hours and we were still sorta in RVS, with almost no real posts other than number spec. Bart and Marth were the ones that caught my attention/I wanted to prod, and deliberately starting a wagon just to get out of RVS is at least a try to get the game going.
I don't care if people take issue with the vote because yes, it wasn't a good case. I called out Marth for having flimsy arguments while admitting there was nothing to base proper reads of, and placed a vote with little justification myself. At the time everyone was grasping at straws so any serious attempt at scumreading was mainly based on tone and vibes. Feel free to case me if you're bothered by my posts, this has still been a slow D1 where many has yet to form or state proper opinions.

I'm currently null on Bart, I think Marth is worse. His follow up posts has been defensive responses and he's not really following up on his Weapons suspicion nor offering any further reads. And I still think his argument about Weapons townreading Shinori is an odd hangup because while yes, everyone can scumhunt in multiball, the scum factions would still prefer to start off with mislynching town since things will swing hard early otherwise. It's not a huge gain to announce town reads early.

That said, I've only skimmed the thread and am at page 4, and still haven't read any Elie and Eury posts...... so I will unvote for now while catching up properly. 

 ##Unvote: @Bartozio

[j00]

@Sunwoo What are your thoughts currently? Besides num spec you've been kind of unmemorable (sorry), though early posts seen fine and proactive in trying to get the game going. Have your thoughts about Bart changed?

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, j00 said:

@Sunwoo What are your thoughts currently? Besides num spec you've been kind of unmemorable (sorry), though early posts seen fine and proactive in trying to get the game going. Have your thoughts about Bart changed?

I feel like I have more town reads than scum reads right now, so I've been kinda struggling on how I should proceed. I feel slightly better about Bartozio, but not enough for me to move my vote off him. He has given reads, yes, but I don't like how he had to be prompted by Weapons and then me to give his thoughts on the game. His one post before Weapons asked him for thoughts on his wagon was ... a little weak? He asked Marth a question and but didn't really take a stance on any of what he commented it.

I don't really know what to think about Marth. I guess it's fine for a catch-up "I just got prodded" post, but I really have no idea how to read him.

Realtalk, I feel like the fact that several people are silent/haven't posted in a while is really fucking with my reads ;_;

[Sunwoo]

Wow, that last sentence in the first paragraph got messed up. Let me rephrase that: "He asked Marth a question but didn't really take a stance on any of what he commented on".

 

[j00]

Eh, the Elie & Eury feud feels it's based on a lot of nitpicking on wording and arguments. I don't agree with all the arguments but I'm not leaning scum on either right now.

I'm not sure what to make of Bart's Jamie vote. @JamieIsBored is apparently an experienced player from another site, but I haven't played with him before and there seem to be some cultural differences in playstyle, eg. lynching inactives D1? I'd like to hear more reads from you. Who do you want to lynch today? If this was your homesite, would you go for an inactive? How do you come to an consensus about which inactive player to lynch? etc.

Well I guess I still feel worse about Bart and Marth. I could shift the wagon from Bart to Marth but idk if that changes the game state much, and I admit I don't have very strong feelings about any reads right now. 

Would like for Cam, Grace, Aster and DefyingFates to catch up. 

##Vote: @Bluedoom

[JamieIsBored]

24 minutes ago, j00 said:

eg. lynching inactives D1?

Yeah, we do quite often. 

24 minutes ago, j00 said:

If this was your homesite, would you go for an inactive?

Eh, we still have time. We lynch inactives when we have nothing which normally means the wagon forms late D1. 

26 minutes ago, j00 said:

How do you come to an consensus about which inactive player to lynch?

Normally when we're 4-5ish hours from phase end and we have nothing, we shoot for anyone who hasn't turned up (which was a big problem for a while). It's normally just someone will then pick an inactive and a wagon forms. 

29 minutes ago, j00 said:

I'd like to hear more reads from you. Who do you want to lynch today?

I'll lump these two together. A lot of the reads I've seen so far are more meta, I've played with Elieson a couple times and I was scumbuds with Shinori for a day in Champs so not much on that account. 

Thoughts atm:
Shinori - Leaning town (Helped Fates early on, activity prods, reads are pretty solid)
Percivalé - Town Reading (I like the vibes)
Weapons - Leaning town (I like how honest they are lol, 95 was good)
Elieson - Town Reading (Mindmeld initially on Fates, I agree with his Percivalé read, actively trying to promote discussion with his Eurykins push, would be lock if he posted one of his dinosaur comics)
Bluedoom - Scum lean (Very contradictory when they first started posting, only public read being a meta read)
Sunwoo - Town lean (Vibes again, being quick to give out reads is also a towntell imo)
j00 - Town lean (Moved discussion forward a lot, liked how you followed up on wanting to move past RVS by starting a wagon)
Eurykins - Null (I agreed with their Fates points, wary of spat with Elieson being some way to distance but idk)
Fates - Scum lean (On reflection, post feels kinda coachy, as I said before way too early for them to bring up not voting, also lack of game contribution)
Bartozio - Null (Initial wagon was unwarranted, reads are alright, just nothing jumping out as town for me) 

And for who would I lynch, anyone in italics or not on the list. 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

When is phase end?

I’m down to lynch among inactives/less actives. Multiball means associatives aren’t going to be that helpful and the state of the thread really suggests maf are lurky/passive. Cam/Grace are the obvious picks there, but I feel like Marth/j00 are too, the difference pretty much being that I pinged the latter two. j00 is definitely not playing the same as last game and feels self-conscious - @j00 what’s up with that, can you explain. Still willing to give Aster/Fates a pass.

[JamieIsBored]

14 hours ago, BBM said:

Phase ends in approximately 34 hours and 45 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 17th. As a reminder, it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 8 to hammer.

@WeaponsofMassConstruction

[BBM]

I added a countdown timer to the phase end time at the bottom to make it easier for people in different time zones.

Mod Votals 1.3

DefyingFates (2): Eurykins, JamieIsBored
Bartozio (2): Percivale, Sunwoo
Bluedoom (2): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00
Eurykins (1): Elieson
Sunwoo (1): CT075
Percivale (1): DefyingFates
WeaponsofMassConstruction (1): Bluedoom
Shinori (1): Grace
JamieIsBored (1): Bartozio
Not Voting: Shinori, Aster

Phase ends in approximately 19 hours and 51 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 17th. As a reminder, it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 8 to hammer.

[CT075]

more thoughts

- numbers spec is super cheap talk and I sort of dislike how long it went on for

- grace's post on the noobs is a towntell, it'd be pretty easy to say nothing and move on but sticking your neck out over it doesn't seem scum-motivated. that said, i find the logic itself a little suspect -- "they could have been coached to make a noob mistake (and then to immediately back off) for town cred" feels like such a conspiracy theory justification; this read is more a gut read based on the timing of it all.

- want to hear more from @WeaponsofMassConstruction on why multiball scum has less reason to townread people, and particularly how it relates to Shinori? I have my own thoughts on the matter but I want to hear it from the horse's mouth

- Elie's comment on RAT/BAT being opposed seems like a reasonable internal assumption to make but idk, I feel like acting based on any assumptions on how the factions interact on D1 is counterproductive. We don't know anything about the relative sizes/powers of the teams, whether they have the same wincons, or so on, and especially on D1 we won't have associatives anyway so like, may as well treat today as a non-multiball game and just try to Find The Bad Guy (singular). Speculating about so and so's actions in multiball is a waste of time without more information on how the setup functions.

- I'm not a huge fan of Eury sticking it so hard to DefyingFates over like three posts. Am I missing something? When proofreading this post I found out that I did legitimately miss DF voting for Percy but I still think this is a weirdly hardline stance to take for, in order, making a comment about not voting/preferring no lynch during RVS, empty voting in response to being told no lynch is a bad idea, then making a mostly empty comment in response to Aster asking for a summary. This is not even about defending noobs, surely something else has happened in the game that's worth committing to rather than post walls and walls about why a three post wonder needs to be pressured so much.

got to mid page 5, will read the rest shortly

##vote: @Eurykins

[CT075]

wait holy shit phase ends in 19 hours? i thought we still had like a full day

[Sunwoo]

I originally had a good feeling about Grace and Percival, but it's probably not great that neither of them have posted for quite a while. Enough to forget that they were still playing, at least. I would've included a comment about Cam, but he beat me to a post. Will read that in a sec.

@WeaponsofMassConstruction: I'm not telling you to give j00 a complete pass, but there is a reason why she's playing differently from last game (or at least this phase). I'd say give her until maybe D2.

[BBM]

Also, DefyingFates has been prodded.

[CT075]

Will add that I think Elie's fight with Eury is hard to read but Eury's double down is mainly the thing that stands out to me. This is a ton of text about why we shouldn't give the noobs a pass, which is a fine and good statement in a vacuum, but this is way too much text about Three Posts considering that other things have been going on.

[CT075]

i am also opposed to inactive lynches on principle (totally not just because i'm a habitual lurker myself) because it doesn't meaningfully advance the game state beyond the literal act of flipping that person; we get basically no associatives (it's so easy to start or hop on an inactive wagon as any alignment) and there isn't even anything to say about it beyond "yeah inactive lul" so it makes the end-of-day scramble totally contentless as well

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, CT075 said:

Will add that I think Elie's fight with Eury is hard to read but Eury's double down is mainly the thing that stands out to me. This is a ton of text about why we shouldn't give the noobs a pass, which is a fine and good statement in a vacuum, but this is way too much text about Three Posts considering that other things have been going on.

To be fair, isn't that just a Eury thing to overexplain everything in such granular detail? Like, while I do think she's blowing Elie's suspicion on her out of proportion this still feels like a thing town!Eury would do.

[CT075]

Possibly? I'd still like to hear from Eury about The Rest Of The Game; just based on the text on my screen I count a few single sentences (with no further explanation on any of the above) about you/Shinori/Weapons/Percy, some text defending herself from Elie (which also is about DefyingFates), and then a paragraph about Boron.

I actually agree that Elie's case on Eury feels like a stretch, and I will put together some text of my own on that soon (tm), but for now I'd like a patented Eurywall about More Than Three Posts.

[Eurykins]

Give me a few (did promise to check into others, but got out of work late + new raids launched today, patch days ahoy). Also regarding notions of me responding to Elie: I only responded for as much as he forced whatever questions he asked about me, and I saw the notion of "Doubling down" on DF, despite zero posts from them/no changes? (I think there was even a prod on them, which kinda points to the reason why I originally went to them for responses?) I'm not sure how that lends its way to being an issue, or my responses to Elie's posts is any worse than him restating/reasking multiple times. If someone asks or presents a notion, I will generally offer counterpoints or clarifications that are sent my way.

[Shinori]

If your reasoning for wanting to vote Eury is because she 'doubled down' on a scum read when that scum read is a newer player I'm confused.

Some people just haven't posted a lot and i don't think that it's bad persay to go after a less active person and some of DF's posts were weird.

I felt she also posted a bit about other people but maybe i just misconstrued other things as information.  Will go back and reread her posts again.  I do think eury as scum wouldn't just come in and then vote sit on the new person realistically and there seems to be some OOMPH in her posts which feel more townie vibe checked than scum.

23 minutes ago, CT075 said:

i am also opposed to inactive lynches on principle (totally not just because i'm a habitual lurker myself) because it doesn't meaningfully advance the game state

I can agree with this part and would rather not lynch an incative today unless there just weren't better options.  However I think inactives are perfectly on the menu day 2.  And if I get the feeling their inactivity is more based on scum-sided agenda, then they can go on the block day 1 too.

For example if either of our new players are scum and are being kind of inactive because they aren't quite sure what to do and they've been tossed into the deep end of the pool with no prior warning then I think that's something to look at.  But we would need SOME more posts from them at least to start to get that feel.

[Shinori]

Frankly I'm just gonna sidestep the elie/eury debacle for now.  I do have more of an eye on Elie out of the two of them though.

16 minutes ago, CT075 said:

I actually agree that Elie's case on Eury feels like a stretch, and I will put together some text of my own on that soon (tm), but for now I'd like a patented Eurywall about More Than Three Posts.

I'm curious about this and I wait with bated breath to hear your thoughts.

[CT075]

i mean setting meta aside i think votesitting on an inactive noob is just really, really easy and wallposting about it makes you look like you have more Content than you actually do