OMG it's a tier list

[alfredo094]

Why is IkeXX(T) below Haar?

Edited December 13, 2011 by alfredo094

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Why is IkeXX(T) below Haar?

Are you joking? Ike is NOT God. Yes, he's better in FE10 because he gets axes on promotion for better attack power and the WT doesn't exist in FE10 HM, but he pales in comparison to what Haar does. Haar soloes whole maps. Haar rescuedrops others to locations in only a few turns. Haar is invaluable in every chapter. Haar requires nothing to be good. The only thing he could use is Nullify, which he doesn't have much competition for.

[Florete]

Why is IkeXX(T) below Haar?

To put it a different way...

Much of it is flight. Ike and Haar have roughly the same availability but Haar is the only flier for a lot of the time (and still the best when others come) while Ike is a Sword-locked foot unit. Haar largely relies on a Speedwing for his combat to remain up to par, but given that he's easily the best for it and there are two available by then anyway, that can be mostly overlooked. Haar's move + flight + awesome stats is simply too invaluable for clearing maps in a timely manner.

[Zanarkin]

Are you joking? Ike is NOT God. Yes, he's better in FE10 because he gets axes on promotion for better attack power and the WT doesn't exist in FE10 HM, but he pales in comparison to what Haar does. Haar soloes whole maps. Haar rescuedrops others to locations in only a few turns. Haar is invaluable in every chapter. Haar requires nothing to be good. The only thing he could use is Nullify, which he doesn't have much competition for.

As if ike needed axes to be great after promotion. Its called Ragnell. Besides Ike isn't going to be using a hammer allt he time, and because of that, we'd likely stick with the inferior 2 range of hand axes when compared to a ragnell (in the case we were to use axes). No opinion on the haar thing.

[Dark Sage]

Personally, I think Ike should drop below Sothe, but that will require me doing research. I'll formulate a case for it later, but does anyone support the idea?

[arvilino]

Personally, I think Ike should drop below Sothe, but that will require me doing research. I'll formulate a case for it later, but does anyone support the idea?

But should Ike drop below Mia or should she drop along with him?

[Dark Sage]

With him obviously.

[Florete]

Mia (T) is probably too high anyway, but no one's ever really argued it so she's just been sitting there. I can't say I'd definitely support Sothe > Ike but I can see it being reasonable.

Cue Interceptor. In which his name will be very appropriate.

[-Cynthia-]

Mia(T) should just be slashed with Mia(N) IMO. Yeah Mia(T) is better, but I don't think the extra points make up for her shortcomings enough to be over Sothe.

@Sothe vs. Ike Ehh I'm leery about this. Ike is very good in the first few Part 3 chapters, as the other GMs generally can't double and those that can double can't ORKO much. He sort of falls off in the middle though, since many maps become dominated by high Mov units, though in Part 4 Ike is obviously a lot more useful than Sothe is. Hard to compare units who don't share availability until 4-E.

[Zanarkin]

Mia (T) should drop imo... Probably along with Mia

I don't think the stuff she can do overdo the herons.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

If we do drop Ike (N), why don't we group Titania (N) and Titania (T) together? Ike (T) should stay where he is. If Ike (N) is dropped, how about just above Volug? Bring Sothe right below Ike (N), and group Mia (N) and Mia (T) together, put them right below Volug in Top.

[Interceptor]

I can't say I'd definitely support Sothe > Ike but I can see it being reasonable.

Or in other words, the very thought elicited from you a delighted squeal, one so high-pitched that only dogs could hear it. Which might explain why I'm suddenly back in this thread, for another round of kicks directed at the corpse of the Radiant Dawn tier list.

Personally, while some say that Sothe > Ike goes too far, I say that it doesn't go too far enough. The merely "preposterous" is weak tea; we might as well swing for the fences and go for the ultimate absurdity: Sothe as the greatest unit in the entire universe. There are two obvious ways to handle this.

One, we rank the units in this game based on the idea that the Dawn Brigade gets overrun in 3-6, and everyone gets torn apart by bloodthirsty Laguz, resulting in Ashera hitting the snooze button and going back to bed for another hundred years or so, credits roll. This is not very far from the truth on Hard Mode. Advantage: not only does this avoid all extremely awkward Yune dialogue, and a bunch of really boring Routs, but it ensures that Sothe only has a single bad chapter. Downside: this means that we can't rank 3-13 Archer.

Second, we weight rankings based on Cutscene Awesomeness<tm>, since as far as I can tell that's about half the reason that Sothe is not in the ass-end of High. This propels Sothe to Jesus tier for his Prologue performance, and also explains Zelgius. Before anyone complains that Sothe was just killing generics, keep in mind that Micaiah gets OHKO'ed by everything, so he is all that stands between us and a game that's three minutes long. "But wait", you say, "what about Ike's scenes!?!"

Well, that's a great question. Ike doesn't count. Sure he obliterated Ashera, but only because Yune gave him "all the power [she had]", so credit clearly belongs to Micaiah, here. In the Lucia rescue, he was surrounded by other GMs that were doing most of the work: Boyd, Titania, Mia, Gatrie and Soren were lighting the place up, Rhys and Mist were healing like pros, and while Rolf didn't do anything important, can anyone say that Shinon's critical hit wasn't pretty amazing? All that Ike really did was chip a couple of people and Rescue Lucia, but frankly nobody gets any credit for picking her up, since her wt is only 8 and half the game's cast could have done that anyway.

And there is it, the rationale you've all been looking for. While we're at it, maybe Raisin above Mia, because it's Tuesday.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Interceptor

[Florete]

I can only give you a 7/10 because you didn't even acknowledge my prediction.

Or in other words, the very thought elicited from you a delighted squeal, one so high-pitched that only dogs could hear it.

I like Sothe but I don't like him that much. Maybe I would if he were a girl and the relationship with Micaiah stayed the same for some awesome yuri, though <3.

Sothe as the greatest unit in the entire universe.

Done.

EDIT: In other news, I also decided to combine the Mia's and Titania's with Mia in High and Titania just above Ike in Top. Feel free to agree, and if you disagree, well, tough. Yes, that was sarcasm.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[nflchamp]

I can only give you a 7/10 because you didn't even acknowledge my prediction.

I like Sothe but I don't like him that much. Maybe I would if he were a girl and the relationship with Micaiah stayed the same for some awesome yuri, though <3.

Done.

EDIT: In other news, I also decided to combine the Mia's and Titania's with Mia in High and Titania just above Ike in Top. Feel free to agree, and if you disagree, well, tough. Yes, that was sarcasm.

I know we all know the details about what units at the top of this list can accomplish, but I can't agree with movement happening before concrete reasons are even put out there. I mean Sothe above Mia(T) and Mia(T) being slashed with Mia(N) has happened because people "don't think" Mia(T) is in the right spot. Titania(T) slashed with Titania(N) was hardly brought up at all in relation to a move that has no reasoning even provided so far (outside of Interceptor's hilarious one). I don't want to yell "Bias!", but we've got to hold at least some standard of argument before making changes.

[dondon151]

Those opinions have been swirling around for awhile, though. The previous changes to Mia and Titania were rather conservatively implemented.

I'm rather neutral on the Sothe vs. Ike argument. I can definitely see the reasoning behind Sothe going up, but we have to keep in mind that even a good part of his part 1 performance is getting eclipsed by temporary units, and then all of a sudden he's not great anymore - just good. Then he's actually kind of bad for the rest of the game.

[Narga_Rocks]

I propose a renaming of "easy mode" tier. It was named this when it was just Ike(T), and Ike(T) is a walking Death God. He truly makes the game a cakewalk. You can point him anywhere and he won't die, nor will he have any trouble ORKOing everything (except SMs for a few chapters at the start of part 3). Now, granted, Haar deserves his spot above Ike. Flight is just that good. But a Death God he is not (outside part 2). He can die if you aren't careful enough. Heck, in 3-3 if you don't give him fortune he can get offed quite easily by 3 or 4 of the enemies in one hit (the elthunder jerks). Furthermore, even with the 2-3 speedwing he has many issues doubling in part 3 without some lucky speed procs. Basically, Haar doesn't turn the game into Easy Mode, he just happens to be the biggest contributor to an efficient playthrough. Hence his spot. But he's not a guy that you can just send anywhere to survive everything and kill stuff instantly. You could maybe call him NM, but he doesn't make enemies look like pathetic jokes. He arguably does that to some chapters, but that's only if you are actually good at the game. Only Ike(T) makes the game pathetic regardless of your skill level and only Ike(T) makes the enemy look pathetic.

[Kirisoul]

Volke should be a bit higher. He's the Athos type endgame savior character, but that doesn't make him bad. With the transfers here he's already capped str and will hit his caps for hp, skl, and spd very soon. Statwise he's better than all the trueblades. The only thing I see holding him back is Baselard's 1 range, but hey you gotta give him points for crit+25, lethality gives him a coolness factor, and he looks like a NINJA! Nevermind the last part, but I think he deserves to be in at least middle, I mean he's way better than Heather at least.

[MacLovin]

Volke should be a bit higher. He's the Athos type endgame savior character, but that doesn't make him bad. With the transfers here he's already capped str and will hit his caps for hp, skl, and spd very soon. Statwise he's better than all the trueblades. The only thing I see holding him back is Baselard's 1 range, but hey you gotta give him points for crit+25, lethality gives him a coolness factor, and he looks like a NINJA! Nevermind the last part, but I think he deserves to be in at least middle, I mean he's way better than Heather at least.

He has no training time, and there are better options for gotoh characters to bring to endgame.

Like the laguz royals.

[Bluedoom]

Volke just kills stuff for like 3 chapters at most. He's taking away a weapon Sothe could use, and thereby making a forced character redundant. That and Heather actually does stuf like stealing, which can get you extra money for the GM. Plus Heather's not shabby herself at surviving.

Also, after seeing Makalov above Volke, I think Danved(N/T) should go above Volke. I mean, he can be crowned after a couple of lvls of BEXP and he's pretty good afterwards. Not Stellar, but he is by far more solid than someone like Makalov.

[Fenrir]

*sobs uncontrollably upon seeing sothe at the top* noooooo nono no no no!! I don't get how he can be that high, he's nothing more than a utility unit(Available for your use, does chip damage, and has his special skill of stealing) in P3 and P4. It could make sense to me if somebody explained, but it just makes me cringe seeing a guy who wears a belly shirt being labeled 'The Greatest Unit in the Entire Universe'

He's taking away a weapon Sothe could use

I agree volke isn't anything special. But, c'mon man! that's no point at all.

EDIT: I also believe Jill(t) > Oscar(t). But it is a bit of a toss up, just my 2 cents.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Fenrir

[Florete]

I propose a renaming of "easy mode" tier. It was named this when it was just Ike(T), and Ike(T) is a walking Death God. He truly makes the game a cakewalk. You can point him anywhere and he won't die, nor will he have any trouble ORKOing everything (except SMs for a few chapters at the start of part 3). Now, granted, Haar deserves his spot above Ike. Flight is just that good. But a Death God he is not (outside part 2). He can die if you aren't careful enough. Heck, in 3-3 if you don't give him fortune he can get offed quite easily by 3 or 4 of the enemies in one hit (the elthunder jerks). Furthermore, even with the 2-3 speedwing he has many issues doubling in part 3 without some lucky speed procs. Basically, Haar doesn't turn the game into Easy Mode, he just happens to be the biggest contributor to an efficient playthrough. Hence his spot. But he's not a guy that you can just send anywhere to survive everything and kill stuff instantly. You could maybe call him NM, but he doesn't make enemies look like pathetic jokes. He arguably does that to some chapters, but that's only if you are actually good at the game. Only Ike(T) makes the game pathetic regardless of your skill level and only Ike(T) makes the enemy look pathetic.

You propose it, but we have no ideas.

Volke should be a bit higher. He's the Athos type endgame savior character, but that doesn't make him bad. With the transfers here he's already capped str and will hit his caps for hp, skl, and spd very soon. Statwise he's better than all the trueblades. The only thing I see holding him back is Baselard's 1 range, but hey you gotta give him points for crit+25, lethality gives him a coolness factor, and he looks like a NINJA! Nevermind the last part, but I think he deserves to be in at least middle, I mean he's way better than Heather at least.

What the others said. There's really just nothing special about Volke, and in no way is he a "savior" character. Almost any other unit has significant advantages on him during Endgame, whether it be move, power, 1-2 range, etc.

*sobs uncontrollably upon seeing sothe at the top* noooooo nono no no no!! I don't get how he can be that high, he's nothing more than a utility unit(Available for your use, does chip damage, and has his special skill of stealing) in P3 and P4. It could make sense to me if somebody explained, but it just makes me cringe seeing a guy who wears a belly shirt being labeled 'The Greatest Unit in the Entire Universe'

Interceptor argued it fiercely. Not much we can do.

[-Cynthia-]

Sothe doesn't really do "chip" damage unless we stick him with a Bronze Knife through all of Part 1. He's one of our better offensive units for most chapters actually.

[NinjaMonkey]

and thereby making a forced character redundant.

At this point of the game (Endgame), Sothe is redundant...

Edited December 29, 2011 by NinjaMonkey

[nflchamp]

Sothe doesn't really do "chip" damage unless we stick him with a Bronze Knife through all of Part 1. He's one of our better offensive units for most chapters actually.

He was talking about part 3 and 4 where Sothe is only doing chip damage. And by the time part 4 rolls around it's useless chip damage.

[Bluedoom]

@NM: So we want Sothe to be EVEN MORE USELESS without Baselard? :S

@nflchamp: Sothe's not useless in Part three in the very least. BeastKiller still grows strong, so the only problem we'd have with Sothe is his defences, really.His damage is pretty strong in two out of his three chapters.

Part 4 is iffy though. He still can do pretty decent damage and not chip( which Oscar(T) would do but worse since he has doubling problem due to bad cap)