Tripping

[California Mountain Snake]

You guys are bitter, idk why your calling us "tourney fags". Is it because we like competition and are good enough to compete?

Your all bitter because your not good at the game(s)

Correlation does not imply causation. And no, Fox is actually quite good at Brawl and all iterations of the series.

Tourneyfag is used to describe people who take party games way too seriously. Like all other party games, in Brawl everyone is meant to win once in a while.

[Lord Raven]

The beauty of Smash? They can be played both competitively and casually. Melee is deep competitively, and fun casually. Brawl sucks competitively, is decent enough casually.

Everyone who plays at tournaments takes it "too" seriously, but what separates tourneyfags from the cool competitive players are the ones that differentiate between casual and competitive. Of course, I interpreted a second ago that the twins above me were saying that all players that play smash competitively are tourneyfags, unless my original interpretation was correct. <_<

Edited January 27, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Rei]

Tripping is retarded.

[Lord Raven]

even in casual play it is

[dondon151]

No, the term tourneyfag applies because I think it's aggravating how people piss and moan about how Brawl stinks in competitive play when the game was not designed to be played on a competitive level in the first place.

People still have the right to complain about how Brawl lacks competitive potential. They just can't refuse to acknowledge the casual point of view. In which case, "tourneyfag" is too harsh of a descriptor.

[The Blind Archer]

People still have the right to complain about how Brawl lacks competitive potential. They just can't refuse to acknowledge the casual point of view. In which case, "tourneyfag" is too harsh of a descriptor.

And being called a casualfag/scrub isn't at all harsh? >_>

I'm proud to play just for the sake of playing. Video games are essentially hi-tech toys.

On which note, while a bit out there, has anyone here heard of competitive Connect Four with banned diagonal connections in order to make it more of a "skill-based" game? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? >_> It may not be the best example, but it's what comes into my mind when I see people complain that a video game isn't "competitive" enough and there's too much "luck" involved.

Edited January 27, 2009 by The Blind Archer

[Raven]

There's no luck involved when you keep getting your ass handed to you by the same person ten matches in a row. This game takes skill, with only a fraction of luck involved. But that's without items... It's why I hate items in a match, because I'm always getting owned by a bat, bomb or a legendary Pokemon. That's where luck comes into play.

[Fox]

People still have the right to complain about how Brawl lacks competitive potential. They just can't refuse to acknowledge the casual point of view. In which case, "tourneyfag" is too harsh of a descriptor.

They have the right, but considering how Brawl was intentionally designed to snub out the competitive scene, there's no point. Bitching about a game's lack of competitive potential for a game that was not made to be played competitively is like complaining about your pear for not being a fucking watermelon. Sakurai wants to keep away from that shit, and considering it's kind of his, uh, you know, idea and all, he gets to decide the direction he wants his series to take. That direction is casual over competitive, and looking at its ravenous, insatiable fanbase, I think he's making the right decision, if only just because he's doing it to make them cry some more.

[Krevin]

You guys are bitter, idk why your calling us "tourney fags". Is it because we like competition and are good enough to compete?

Your all bitter because your not good at the game(s)

*You're

We're called tourneyfags because we play at a competitive level. It's not even an insult, really, it's just a generalization. I mean seriously, look around the internet. Snap the word "fag" onto the end of just about anything and it becomes a title for people associated with it. Furfag, japfag, failfag, cockfag, FEfag... pretty much anything that doesn't sound right with "tard" at the end.

People still have the right to complain about how Brawl lacks competitive potential. They just can't refuse to acknowledge the casual point of view. In which case, "tourneyfag" is too harsh of a descriptor.

Brawl doesn't lack competitive potential, it's just a massively different game that so-far takes less tech skill than Melee. That's not to say it'll stay that way forever; there was a time when Melee wasn't very fast, wavedashing was used seldom if ever, and Sheik controlled the metagame with her easy combos and epic forward-air. But look at Melee now, it's considered one of the most (if not the absolute most) technical fighting games in existence, but that took a while to build up to and few people could have foreseen such massive advancements in the metagame, I highly doubt that, within the first year of Melee's release, all the competitive players were saying "Oh this game is gonna get so intense PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, SHIELD-PRESSURE, KEN COMBO, ISAI IS TOO GOOD, WAVESMASH, FLAME CANCEL, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, ZELDA IS USELESS, WAVESHINE, YO-YO GLITCH, SUPER WAVEDASH, SUPER-DUPER WAVEDASH, WEEGEE LADDER, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL"

[Gatrie: Guns Blazing]

Tripping saved my ass in sudden death, believe it or not

[mr_e_s]

Tripping wasn't the worst idea ever.

Adding tripping to Brawl was the worst idea ever.

No? Not the Holocaust? Not the atom bomb?

Okay then.

[Lord Raven]

We're called tourneyfags because we play at a competitive level. It's not even an insult, really, it's just a generalization. I mean seriously, look around the internet. Snap the word "fag" onto the end of just about anything and it becomes a title for people associated with it. Furfag, japfag, failfag, cockfag, FEfag... pretty much anything that doesn't sound right with "tard" at the end.

actually the "fag" part is/should be in reference to people who are fags anyway

Brawl doesn't lack competitive potential, it's just a massively different game that so-far takes less tech skill than Melee. That's not to say it'll stay that way forever; there was a time when Melee wasn't very fast, wavedashing was used seldom if ever, and Sheik controlled the metagame with her easy combos and epic forward-air. But look at Melee now, it's considered one of the most (if not the absolute most) technical fighting games in existence, but that took a while to build up to and few people could have foreseen such massive advancements in the metagame, I highly doubt that, within the first year of Melee's release, all the competitive players were saying "Oh this game is gonna get so intense PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, SHIELD-PRESSURE, KEN COMBO, ISAI IS TOO GOOD, WAVESMASH, FLAME CANCEL, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, ZELDA IS USELESS, WAVESHINE, YO-YO GLITCH, SUPER WAVEDASH, SUPER-DUPER WAVEDASH, WEEGEE LADDER, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL"

... there's no hitstun. There's no combos. That's a huge blow towards competitive potential. Edited January 27, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[grandjackal]

Besides, Brawl's competitive edge is like...the fifth thing that's wrong with it.

[Krevin]

... there's no hitstun. There's no combos. That's a huge blow towards competitive potential.

There's combos. Watch any good Yoshi or G-Dub player and you'll know that there's combos. As for hitstun, it exists, it's just a hell of a lot easier to break out of, and that could, theoretically, help make the gameplay faster and thereby more competitive.

[Lord Raven]

A combo is an unbreakable chain of attacks. Hitstun leads to combos. Hitstun is easy to break out of. Therefore, there are very few combos, if any at all. The combos that already exist are good for probably 15% damage, and once again not every character has easily accessible combos.

[Rei]

*You're

We're called tourneyfags because we play at a competitive level. It's not even an insult, really, it's just a generalization. I mean seriously, look around the internet. Snap the word "fag" onto the end of just about anything and it becomes a title for people associated with it. Furfag, japfag, failfag, cockfag, FEfag... pretty much anything that doesn't sound right with "tard" at the end.

Brawl doesn't lack competitive potential, it's just a massively different game that so-far takes less tech skill than Melee. That's not to say it'll stay that way forever; there was a time when Melee wasn't very fast, wavedashing was used seldom if ever, and Sheik controlled the metagame with her easy combos and epic forward-air. But look at Melee now, it's considered one of the most (if not the absolute most) technical fighting games in existence, but that took a while to build up to and few people could have foreseen such massive advancements in the metagame, I highly doubt that, within the first year of Melee's release, all the competitive players were saying "Oh this game is gonna get so intense PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, SHIELD-PRESSURE, KEN COMBO, ISAI IS TOO GOOD, WAVESMASH, FLAME CANCEL, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR, ZELDA IS USELESS, WAVESHINE, YO-YO GLITCH, SUPER WAVEDASH, SUPER-DUPER WAVEDASH, WEEGEE LADDER, PILLAR, PILLAR, PILLAR LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL"

You need to money match UmbreonMow, he beats Azen's Marth with Zelda.

[dondon151]

They have the right, but considering how Brawl was intentionally designed to snub out the competitive scene, there's no point. Bitching about a game's lack of competitive potential for a game that was not made to be played competitively is like complaining about your pear for not being a fucking watermelon. Sakurai wants to keep away from that shit, and considering it's kind of his, uh, you know, idea and all, he gets to decide the direction he wants his series to take. That direction is casual over competitive, and looking at its ravenous, insatiable fanbase, I think he's making the right decision, if only just because he's doing it to make them cry some more.

Developer intent has nothing to do with the final product, first of all. The developer makes the game and the competitive scene makes the metagame. That's just how it is.

Second, please don't twist Sakurai's claim that he wanted a game where there would be no true loser into an implied message of spite towards the competitive scene. You're not him; please don't superimpose your bitter anti-competitive rationalizations onto Sakurai.

There's combos. Watch any good Yoshi or G-Dub player and you'll know that there's combos. As for hitstun, it exists, it's just a hell of a lot easier to break out of, and that could, theoretically, help make the gameplay faster and thereby more competitive.

Combos that no one fears don't deserve to be called combos. I'm more scared of Ike hitting me once than of G-dubs landing a nonfatal 2-hit combo on me. True combos are, in a more abstract sense, strings of attacks that make players crap their pants.

[Krevin]

Combos that no one fears don't deserve to be called combos. I'm more scared of Ike hitting me once than of G-dubs landing a nonfatal 2-hit combo on me. True combos are, in a more abstract sense, strings of attacks that make players crap their pants.

Again, Yoshi. He can beat the shit out of you before you can break out of your hitstun and his grab-releases make MK's cry themselves to sleep. Also, chaingrabs still count as combos, and unless you're playing as a character that's abnormally lightweight, Dedede will completely and utterly destroy you if you get in his grab range (as will many other characters, namely ICs, but Dedede's grab range is massive and his chaingrab is straight beastin')

[Atriel]

In less words:

Mommy!! I cans not comboes!!!!11!!!

Stinky game r is not competitiv enough for mah mad skillz!

Love Melee? Go play it. Hate Brawl? Quit wasting your time playing it and/or bashing it.

Sounds smart, eh?

[dondon151]

Again, Yoshi. He can beat the shit out of you before you can break out of your hitstun and his grab-releases make MK's cry themselves to sleep. Also, chaingrabs still count as combos, and unless you're playing as a character that's abnormally lightweight, Dedede will completely and utterly destroy you if you get in his grab range (as will many other characters, namely ICs, but Dedede's grab range is massive and his chaingrab is straight beastin')

Yes, I'm sure that Yoshi's comboing ability is very dangerous. He is a top tier character. He is a threat to take seriously in the Brawl metagame.

When we say "no combos," we don't me that there are literally no combos. "No combos" is definitely true for a good majority of the cast (even moreso if we mark as trivial all of those combos that are neither very dangerous nor very damaging); Dedede, Falco, ICs etc. are not one of them because of their imbalanced chainthrows.

Edited January 29, 2009 by dondon151

[Krevin]

Yes, I'm sure that Yoshi's comboing ability is very dangerous. He is a top tier character. He is a threat to take seriously in the Brawl metagame.

I never said Yoshi didn't have massive flaws, like a fail third jump and massive weight that makes him ridiculously chaingrabbable, or a slow projectile that really proves useless as a standalone attack and is really only useful when thrown from the ledge or following through for a star KO, or one of the most punishable grabs in the game, or the inability to attack out of his shield. But his combos are what keep him F Tier instead of G Tier.

[dondon151]

But his combos are what keep him F Tier instead of G Tier.

Oh, wow. Him being able to string more than one attack in succession puts him above the likes of Link, Ganon, Jiggs and CF. They must be some very good combos.

Notice that on the SSBM tier list, almost every character in low and bottom tier has very close to no good combos against any non-fastfalling character. The quality of a character's combos go a long way in his tier placement.

[Fei Mao]

Sometimes tripping might save you.(rarely) or sometimes they end up getting you killed..

[Roxas]

It's meh. but it condemns me more than saves me most of the time anyyway...

[Rehab]

I have the best idea of all: spend no useless energy bitching about any game you seriously dislike to people who do not care and play your own shit -> spread the love. If you're on one side of an irreconcilable divide, cool story. Don't be unnecessarily inflammatory and stay there.

Tripping: it's bad, it can be fixed, there's no problem worth crapping yourself over.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Mac