FE3, Book 2 tier list

[Rodykitty]

If the Miracle Sword turned Est into a good unit in Book 1 since she had little competition at that point, why does it not make her shoot up from bottom tier to Mid tier? Not to mention she can still just promote at 10...

Probably because like mentioned before, the Miracle Sword can be used on dragons to help kill them, while Book 1 was nothing but fail enemies.

[grandjackal]

Well, for killing Astoria will lose support bonus that Medeia can get from him. Well, that is if your planning to use Medeia that is. As for Hammerine, I only use it only twice throughout most of the game. We would like our extra 3 uses for the last two chapters of the game. K thx.

Agreed. Most likely you won't use the Hammerine Staff more than twice throughout the whole game. The Weapons and tomes in the shops will be just enough to get you through the Chapters.

Astoria gives her what, 10 more avoid in a game where avoid is next to useless and 10 crit that won't save her meh offense? She'll get over it. She's a knight, she's tough like that.

3 extra uses....for the last...2...chapters? You just let 3 uses go to waste, don't you get another hammerne staff eventually? All you're doing is not using an item that could and should be used.

Right! Normal stuff is good enough, so let's not use the stuff that is clearly beneficial! : D Please. If you're double shotting everything anyways, why not use the legend weapons? They get you double exp, they're incredbly powerful, you have enough hammerne staff uses (your argument being just refusing to use a perfectly good item), the levels they give will make the game so much easier, why the hell not use them? It isn't like you're gonna have someone solo maps with these weapons, they'll last. This isn't FE6 where you can just support Deick with Clarine and Rutiger, tell him to stand in a field with iron weapons and kill everything that charges into him. You can't just do that, so weapons don't break like pencils here. Not to mention, whatever kills dragons right quick AND gets you buttloads of experience is leagues better than MOST weapons you get. In fact, I daresay they're actually the most usable weapons in the game.

EDIT: Chainey's right, it's more for killing dragons easily for buttloads of exp. If anything, it just means Est fails more because afterwards you'll have even STRONGER units after the dragon trials than previously believed. Basically, you won't NEED the miracle blade as badly by then. In the dragon chapters, it gets passed around to spread the exp wealth. Afterwards, it's basically giving her sole use of it just to make her usable. Favoritism much? Others would still like to use it. Besides, we wouldn't want it to break for endgame. The Akenia period is the more cautious time for these weapons. Est went from outclassed to BADLY outclassed.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Grandjackal

[PuffPuff]

Probably because like mentioned before, the Miracle Sword can be used on dragons to help kill them, while Book 1 was nothing but fail enemies.

Yes. And the lack of enemy reinforcements that Book I had actually receiving less EXP than from the FE1/11 versions. And that this remake is phail for taking out 5 Characters as well as 5 Chapters.

[NoNameAtAll]

And that this remake is phail for taking out 5 Characters as well as 5 Chapters.

That...has nothing to do with the argument at hand...

[grandjackal]

That...has nothing to do with the argument at hand...

Read through most of her arguments, you'll realize a LOT of things off about stuff she says...

EDIT: FINALLY! Some input on Kashim...Kashim is pretty much smooth throughout, Elren and Yubello have problem periods. Yubello doesn't wanna get punched in the face in the first place and Elren is the definition of bland even when he shows up.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Grandjackal

[NoNameAtAll]

Read through most of her arguments, you'll realize a LOT of things off about stuff she says...

I have. I just felt like pointing that out. >.> <.<

[PuffPuff]

Right! Normal stuff is good enough, so let's not use the stuff that is clearly beneficial! : D Please. If you're double shotting everything anyways, why not use the legend weapons? They get you double exp, they're incredbly powerful, you have enough hammerne staff uses (your argument being just refusing to use a perfectly good item), the levels they give will make the game so much easier, why the hell not use them? It isn't like you're gonna have someone solo maps with these weapons, they'll last. This isn't FE6 where you can just support Deick with Clarine and Rutiger, tell him to stand in a field with iron weapons and kill everything that charges into him. You can't just do that, so weapons don't break like pencils here. Not to mention, whatever kills dragons right quick AND gets you buttloads of experience is leagues better than MOST weapons you get. In fact, I daresay they're actually the most usable weapons in the game.

(Insert Yukiko's laugh) Breaking like Pencils. lol Well, it also does save you money for having to buy some weapons at the shop, but you don't want to use it until broken with wasting Reapir Staff uses until it's broken, uses that you MIGHT need for the Dragon Valley Chapter after 20.

EDIT: Chainey's right, it's more for killing dragons easily for buttloads of exp. If anything, it just means Est fails more because afterwards you'll have even STRONGER units after the dragon trials than previously believed. Basically, you won't NEED the miracle blade as badly by then. In the dragon chapters, it gets passed around to spread the exp wealth. Afterwards, it's basically giving her sole use of it just to make her usable. Favoritism much? Others would still like to use it. Besides, we wouldn't want it to break for endgame. The Akenia period is the more cautious time for these weapons. Est went from outclassed to BADLY outclassed.

If anything, use the legend weapons only on promoted enemies after having at least two uses of the Hammerine Staff that you might need after Chapter 20. By not killing Astoria, it'll get you a Miracle Sword later THAT you will actually need and having the Star Orb to have infinite uses of the weapon.

That...has nothing to do with the argument at hand...

It has to do with actually getting less experience than the other versions for characters such as Est.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[grandjackal]

Laela, you even played the game? The dragonvalley chapters are bigger pain in the asses then Akenia period could POSSIBLY be. Dragons SUCK! I COULD kill them with dragonslayers, but legend weapons get the job done just as well and net me double exp. That's a level up a kill and pretty damn EARLY no less. All keeping Astoria alive does is make you get it later than you could have. Better tell me how Astoria is better than easy dragons + uber exp.

Actually, I'm glad you brought up the star orb! You get it RIGHT AFTER the dragon valley chapters. Meaning I can pretty much use up whatever hammerne staff uses I want before the item that keeps them from breaking shows up! Meaning not only should I use the legend weapons in the dragon valley, I CAN ABUSE THE HELL OUT OF THEM! Use them, break the staff, use with star orb to make them unbreakable all up past the man with the gladius, use carefully for dragon dale, get the extra hammerne at the dragon tier, have perfectly good weapons for killing the final boss. Thank you for the STUNNING insight in helping me prove my point on how uber these uber weapons are. You have been a LOVELY assistant.

[PuffPuff]

Laela, you even played the game? The dragonvalley chapters are bigger pain in the asses then Akenia period could POSSIBLY be. Dragons SUCK! I COULD kill them with dragonslayers, but legend weapons get the job done just as well and net me double exp. That's a level up a kill and pretty damn EARLY no less. All keeping Astoria alive does is make you get it later than you could have. Better tell me how Astoria is better than easy dragons + uber exp.

Actually, I'm glad you brought up the star orb! You get it RIGHT AFTER the dragon valley chapters. Meaning I can pretty much use up whatever hammerne staff uses I want before the item that keeps them from breaking shows up! Meaning not only should I use the legend weapons in the dragon valley, I CAN ABUSE THE HELL OUT OF THEM! Use them, break the staff, use with star orb to make them unbreakable all up past the man with the gladius, use carefully for dragon dale, get the extra hammerne at the dragon tier, have perfectly good weapons for killing the final boss. Thank you for the STUNNING insight in helping me prove my point on how uber these uber weapons are. You have been a LOVELY assistant.

That right. The Dragons are easy with careful planning. But later on in the Akaneian Chapters, the enemies go out on an all assult instead of getting just within range. I would rather have Miracle+Star Orb and saving Hammerine Staff uses for the last two Chapters that you might need when the Star Orb will be lost after Chapter 20. And keeping Astoria alive is absolutely nessessay for infinite uses with the Miracle+Star Orb combination. You get nearly just as much EXP from the Akaneian enemies anyway, and to slaying to enemies that you might need, and saving Hammerine uses for the last two chapters that you might need. Okay, as for the second Hammerine Staff, you get it so late in the game that you would just about will be to the final battle for that anyway. So that makes the abusing Legend weapons invalid. It is recommended to use the Hammerine Staff only three times throughout the game, because you might need the last two uses for the last two chapters of the game.

[Rodykitty]

I would rather have Miracle+Star Orb and saving Hammerine Staff uses for the last two Chapters that you might need when the Star Orb will be lost after Chapter 20. And keeping Astoria alive is absolutely nessessay for infinite uses with the Miracle+Star Orb combination.

Or you can, you know, conserve Miracle Sword uses.

Besides, you'll want it earlier than later anyway. By the end of the game your units will be able to rip apart dragons without the need of special weapons.

[grandjackal]

That right. The Dragons are easy with careful planning. But later on in the Akaneian Chapters, the enemies go out on an all assult instead of getting just within range. I would rather have Miracle+Star Orb and saving Hammerine Staff uses for the last two Chapters that you might need when the Star Orb will be lost after Chapter 20. And keeping Astoria alive is absolutely nessessay for infinite uses with the Miracle+Star Orb combination. You get nearly just as much EXP from the Akaneian enemies anyway, and to slaying to enemies that you might need, and saving Hammerine uses for the last two chapters that you might need. Okay, as for the second Hammerine Staff, you get it so late in the game that you would just about will be to the final battle for that anyway. So that makes the abusing Legend weapons invalid. It is recommended to use the Hammerine Staff only three times throughout the game, because you might need the last two uses for the last two chapters of the game.

Might, maybe, what if, you could, NO! I have stuff, and I am going to USE it. First off, Astoria is not required at all for infinite use on the sword because he isn't the only one who could use it. Yeah, Akenian soldiers give close to as much, but tack on 5 extra chapters of such chapters and suddenly, Astoria isn't worth losing that. Besides, if we manage to go through the staff AND the legends, I don't even think that's possible unless you purposefully stood there like a goon and took on the insane reinforcements which by tier standards we are NOT doing. Killing Astram suddenly doesn't make chapters and enemies vanish.

Yes, you do get the other hammerne late, but it's also the only other time you'll actually NEED it, thanks to the legend weapons being close to actually breaking/Gradius is now joining us in the fight (probably not actually, since Doga getting this far is hilarious, and Sheema will be resting in peace). This over the time of many chapters. You apparently just want us to not use these weapons until late game for no apparent reason. All the 2nd hammerne staf does is seal the deal. You will ALWAYS have the legend weapons for the final battle. Weapons break, but do not dissapear. Only time uber weapons AREN'T gnna be used AT BEST form the point you get Partia is the first part of dragon tier, which, thanks to boosts of overgame legend weapon use, is no hilarious as your guys tear through these guys with simple weapons anyways. Then you get the second hammerne, and you might as well have given Marth Ragnell and an earth support.

Basically all you've said is "NO! We aren't gonna use them because they is special!".

How bad I wish there was an ignore feature here...

[PuffPuff]

You apparently just want us to not use these weapons until late game for no apparent reason. All the 2nd hammerne staf does is seal the deal. You will ALWAYS have the legend weapons for the final battle. Weapons break, but do not dissapear. Only time uber weapons AREN'T gnna be used AT BEST form the point you get Partia is the first part of dragon tier, which, thanks to boosts of overgame legend weapon use, is no hilarious as your guys tear through these guys with simple weapons anyways. Then you get the second hammerne, and you might as well have given Marth Ragnell and an earth support.

Basically all you've said is "NO! We aren't gonna use them because they is special!".

How bad I wish there was an ignore feature here...

Ever mention the word Gladius that the Flying squadren might need for those extra Hammerine Staff uses that you might need to spam the weapon like crazy in the Dragon Valley chapter after 20. Your figetting one thing, the flying dragon reinforcements that inhabit that chapter are unlimited until that you kill the Drain Book Priest=Unlimited buttload EXP. Keeping Astoria alive will save you Hammerine uses that you might need for the Gladius after Chapter 20, plus Infinite uses of it with the Star Orb till Chapter 20 and a useful character is epic w1n. Also, no one wants to go to the last chapter with broken legend weapon either. So, I'll stick with recruiting Astoria and saving Hammerine Staff uses for something (like the Gladius) that you can use to get your flyers extra EXP, and not ending up having broken legend weapons by the time that you get to the Final Chapter. =]

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[grandjackal]

Ever mention the word Gladius that the Flying squadren might need for those extra Hammerine Staff uses that you might need to spam the weapon like crazy in the Dragon Valley chapter after 20. Your figetting one thing, the flying dragon reinforcements that inhabit that chapter are unlimited until that you kill the Drain Book Priest=Unlimited buttload EXP. Keeping Astoria alive will save you Hammerine uses that you might need for the Gladius after Chapter 20, plus Infinite uses of it with the Star Orb till Chapter 20 and a useful character is epic w1n. Also, no one wants to go to the last chapter with broken legend weapon either. So, I'll stick with recruiting Astoria and saving Hammerine Staff uses for something (like the Gladius) that you can use to get your flyers extra EXP, and not ending up having broken legend weapons by the time that you get to the Final Chapter. =]

Reading anything you type up hurts my head. Can't go into the final battle with broken weapons thanks to teh second hammerne. We aren't just sitting around in the dragon dale as waiting for the flying dragons is sitting there not completing the chapter. Keeping Astoria alive = 5 less chapters of epic exp. Flying squad will be getting Gladius for a whole chapter where it's not getting used much, thanks to so few enemies.

I didn't even need a full paragraph to explain how absurd you sound. You either bring up stupid stuff/inefficient strategies/start agreeing with stuff you started fights about earlier.

I'm just gonna ignore you, you give me a headache explaining stuff you don't listen to anyways.

[PuffPuff]

Reading anything you type up hurts my head. Can't go into the final battle with broken weapons thanks to teh second hammerne. We aren't just sitting around in the dragon dale as waiting for the flying dragons is sitting there not completing the chapter. Keeping Astoria alive = 5 less chapters of epic exp. Flying squad will be getting Gladius for a whole chapter where it's not getting used much, thanks to so few enemies.

Some of us would like to use these weapons at the start of the last Chapter instead of at the point when your not even going to be able to use them anyway when getting the next Hammerine Staff. Being able to use the broken weapons (Repairing them) at the point of

Medeius+Earth Dragons

is phail. Discussion Over.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[grandjackal]

Some of us would like to use these weapons at the start of the last Chapter instead of at the point when your not even going to be able to use them anyway when getting the next Hammerine Staff. Being able to use the broken weapons (Repairing them) at the point of

Medeius+Earth Dragons

is phail. Discussion Over.

So you're only gonna be using them for two battles where your units are overkill at that point anyway rather than using them the length of the game for pure benefit and making pain in the ass parts easier while STILL able to use them endgame anyways?

Indeed discussion over. You can't be taken seriously.

[General Spoon]

I just edited the newest version of our tier list I've seen into the first post. If we can agree to a better version, please post the better changes for me to make.

Also, unless Laylea actually brings up a good point, please try and ignore her. We don't really need another 5 pages of bad points being brought up and refuted repeatedly.

Also, what's the story with calling Kashim "Castor Oil?"

Edited February 9, 2009 by Marty

[Dat Nick]

CASTOR is his US name.

Hence, CASTOR OIL.

Hey, we finally found out what kind of medicine his mom needs! >_>

[General Spoon]

CASTOR is his US name.

Hence, CASTOR OIL.

Hey, we finally found out what kind of medicine his mom needs! >_>

Oh, I thought it had something to do with needing medicine for his mom. Apparently, castor oil (seriously, wtf is this supposed to do? I never bothered to check in Orgeon Trail...) is just a funny coinincidence.

[grandjackal]

Here is the latest version.

=Top Tier=

Sirius

Paola

Katua

Oguma

Marth

Linda

=High Tier=

Nabarl

Feena

Chainy

Minerva

Wendel

Cecil

Kain

Roddy

Luke

Maric

Elren

=Mid Tier=

Yubello

Kashim

Marisa

Yumina

Julian

Sheeda

Abel

George

==Low Tier==

Astoria

Samson

Doga

Samuto

Gordon

Machis

Ryan

Medea

=Bottom Tier=

Alan

Ricardo

Chiki

Warren

Sheema

Banetou

Roshe

Astoria

=Bishop tier, based on hawtness=

Lena

Maria

Elice

Nyna

=Fuck 'em=

Est [Nice to see ya again honey]

Samson

_____________lol worse than FEDS Est

Sheema

Possible changes: Media below Astoria, Yubello either above, switch places with, or is directly below Elren rather than a tier down, and Kashim above them both.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Lord Raven]

Above Elren, lol

vs Merric is debatable, but we'll see where it goes when I bring it up.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[grandjackal]

Above Elren, lol

vs Merric is debatable, but we'll see where it goes when I bring it up.

Who, Kashim or Yubello? If it's Yubello...he ain't that bad. If it's about the protection he needs that one chapter, we proved earlier that protecting him isn't exactly hard.

If it's Kashim, I dunno...Kashim's mad offensive yo. Certainly his smooth uses outdoes Yubello not wanting to get punched in the face and better than Elren's 15 minutes of fame.

EDIT: By the way, we're also thinking of putting Linda above Nabarl there, sweet tooth said you might get pissed. Why is this?

Edited February 10, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Lord Raven]

Yubello needs to be put above Elren and right below Merric, if not above him. Pronto.

[grandjackal]

Yubello needs to be put above Elren and right below Merric, if not above him. Pronto.

Above MARIC!?

Ok, you're on something. Absolutely not. Maric's Excalibur is better than Yubello being useful for a bit earlier. I've no problem with Yubello above Elren, but not Maric.

Also, Linda might go above Nabarl, Sweet Tooth said you'd get pissed. Why exactly?

[Lord Raven]

I have no qualms with Linde > Nabarl.

Also, Merric's Excalibur basically nullifies any of Yubello's previous advantage? I've done calcs shown earlier in this thread, Yubello gets just as much out of a Shaver as Merric does from Excalibur.

[Dat Nick]

I say Luke is the best of the trio, actually. He's got a significant durability win on the other two for the whole game, and he's got no issues with AS or killing so all Cecil has is a very SLIGHT earlygame lead. He should >Rody at least. Prolly Cain too

EDIT: By the way, we're also thinking of putting Linda above Nabarl there, sweet tooth said you might get pissed. Why is this?

NG hates me, and IIRC this is his list.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Sweet Tooth