Shuuda Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/f...icle5705331.ece The Vatican has admitted that Charles Darwin was on the right track when he claimed that Man descended from apes.A leading official declared yesterday that Darwin’s theory of evolution was compatible with Christian faith, and could even be traced to St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. “In fact, what we mean by evolution is the world as created by God,” said Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture. The Vatican also dealt the final blow to speculation that Pope Benedict XVI might be prepared to endorse the theory of Intelligent Design, whose advocates credit a “higher power” for the complexities of life. Organisers of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin’s On the Origin of Species said that at first it had even been proposed to ban Intelligent Design from the event, as “poor theology and poor science”. Intelligent Design would be discussed at the fringes of the conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University, but merely as a “cultural phenomenon”, rather than a scientific or theological issue, organisers said. The conference is seen as a landmark in relations between faith and science. Three years ago advocates of Intelligent Design seized on the Pope’s reference to an “intelligent project” as proof that he favoured their views. Times Archive, 1925: Darwinism in Tennessee: anti-evolution trial opens Conceding that the Church had been hostile to Darwin because his theory appeared to conflict with the account of creation in Genesis, Archbishop Ravasi argued yesterday that biological evolution and the Christian view of Creation were complementary. Marc Leclerc, who teaches natural philosophy at the Gregorian University, said that no scholar could “remain indifferent” to the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth tomorrow. There was, however, “no question of celebrating” it. The Vatican would “take the measure of an event, which has left its mark for ever on the history of science and has influenced the way we understand our humanity”. The “time has come for a rigorous and objective valuation” of Darwin by the Church, he said. Professor Leclerc said that too many opponents of Darwin – above all Creationists – had mistakenly claimed that his theories were “totally incompatible with a religious vision of reality”, as did proponents of Intelligent Design. Darwin’s theories had never been formally condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, Monsignor Ravasi insisted. His rehabilitation had begun as long ago as 1950, when Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans. In 1996 John Paul II said that it was “more than a hypothesis”. Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Professor of Theology at the Pontifical Santa Croce University in Rome, said that Darwin had been anticipated by St Augustine of Hippo. The 4th-century theologian had “never heard the term evolution, but knew that big fish eat smaller fish” and that forms of life had been transformed “slowly over time”. Aquinas had made similar observations in the Middle Ages, he added. He said it was time that theologians as well as scientists grappled with the mysteries of genetic codes and “whether the diversification of life forms is the result of competition or cooperation between species”. As for the origins of Man, although we shared 97 per cent of our “genetic inheritance” with apes, the remaining 3 per cent “is what makes us unique”, including religion. “I maintain that the idea of evolution has a place in Christian theology,” Professor Tanzella-Nitti added. Creationism remains powerful in the US, however, notably among Protestants, and its followers object to evolution being taught in state schools. The Church of England is seeking to bring Darwin back into the fold with a page on its website paying tribute to his “forgotten” work in his local parish, to illustrate how science and Church need not be at odds. Several pages celebrate Darwin’s “significant scientific progress” to mark his bicentenary and also the 150th anniversary of On the Origin of Species. The Church wants to correct the impression that Darwin’s relationship with Anglicanism was contentious. The Anglican Church as a whole did not condemn Darwin or his beliefs. It says that although he lost his faith, he did not become antiChurch or antireligious. Now if only 63% of Americans can have their eyes opened a bit. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shuuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 It tends to happen with how much people program their children. Nice step, at any rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 THE BEST PART IS THAT THEY SAID THAT MAN DESCENDING FROM APES WAS DARWIN'S IDEA. But seriously, this is good. Hopefully, this will make a few people reconsider their beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erk Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Im Christian... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 And how does that make you feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This is bull. But then again, that is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) This is bull. But then again, that is my opinion. An opinion without explanation of evidence is essentially worthless. So come; why is it bull? I for one are glad to see that some religious people do not suckle to every word in the bible, enough to comprise a bit. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shuuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 An opinion without explanation of evidence is essentially worthless. So come; why is it bull?I for one are glad to see that some religious people do not suckle to every word in the bible, enough to comprise a bit. Why is it bull? Because that is my belief, but I is not gonna get into a forum debate, what is the use? Man evolved from ape? Give me a break. If so, like I said, why don't we keep evolving out of apes? Answer that to me, Shuuda. Why don't we still keep descending out of them? We did once, according to your theories. Why not now? Did the apes die? I don't think so. Why did we learn to talk? Why did apes not? Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Tyler Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Oh my, us Christians got owned. Hell, maybe God did created evolution (lol) just to test his twisted sense of humor upon Mankind. I honestly think that God may had created evolution along with creationism but I could be totally wrong. And a topic like this with a well-known religious nut here I sure will not generated lulz and flames. I won't reconsider my faith anytime soon, but still, if the Vatican thinks that evolution is real . . . Edited February 12, 2009 by Proud_Black_Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 William Jennings Bryan is vommiting in his grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Why is it bull? Because that is my belief, but I is not gonna get into a forum debate, what is the use? That is okay. After all, it must be hard to defend things that have no evidence. Man evolved from ape? Give me a break. If so, like I said, why don't we keep evolving out of apes? Answer that to me, Shuuda. Why don't we still keep descending out of them? We did once, according to your theories. Why not now? Did the apes die? I don't think so. Why did we learn to talk? Why did apes not? Eh? A few points: - Man did not actually evolve from Apes. Man and Apes evolved from a common ancestor. And yes, that common ancestor does not exist anymore. - White Americans are basically descendants of Europeans; but we still have Europeans do we not? That goes against your logic. - Just because Apes cannot speak our language, does not mean they do not communicate with each other. I highly recommend doing some reading about the subject before you discredit it. (I am very tempted to post Thunderf00t's "Why do people laugh at creationist" video links). Oh my, us Christians got owned. Wrong. Creationists and Fundamentalists got owned, not Christians in general. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shuuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Tyler Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wrong. Creationists and Fundamentalists got owned, not Christians in general. Ah okay. I stand corrected. I still have this mindset that many or almost all Christians are like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Ostrich Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Evolution as an idea is far from being perfected and is only a step in the right direction rather than being the ultimate truth. But the fact that the Catholic church recognizes this much is a sign of progress. One wonders how this will shape religious thought in the future, or if it will at all? We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Tyler Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But the fact that the Catholic church recognizes this much is a sign of progress.One wonders how this will shape religious thought in the future, or if it will at all? We'll see. The way I see it, the real uptight, hardcore, fundies will still hold on and still won't believe that evolution is a theory that even the Catholic church agrees with. Those with a unbiased point of view well look into this and see if this can mix in with their faith. Would be something if God did created evolution as well as creationism but there could be some conflicts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erk Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 And how does that make you feel? I feel mind raped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Oh my, us Christians got owned. Except that not all Christians are Catholic. Oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Gah, you were supposed to let it build up before you said that! All my waiting for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Im Christian...And?Man evolved from ape? Give me a break. If so, like I said, why don't we keep evolving out of apes?Because it already happened. Nobody said we turn back into them.Why don't we still keep descending out of them? We did once, according to your theories.No wonder you think it doesn't make sense; what you're saying is nothing like how evolution works. Repeatedly turning into apes and turning back would be hard for me to believe too.Why not now? Did the apes die? I don't think so.You thought wrong. They died. Many of them hundreds of thousands of years ago. It's their descendants that changed.Why did we learn to talk? Why did apes not? Eh?Either "we" were put in situations where higher communication was very beneficial, or it was luck of the draw.- Man did not actually evolve from Apes. Man and Apes evolved from a common ancestor. And yes, that common ancestor does not exist anymore.It's a technicality, but I nearly said the same thing after reading the first line of the article. I did some background research, though, and apparently as far up in classification as Hominidae, all members of the family were apes. Obviously though, we still didn't evolve from MODERN apes.Ah okay. I stand corrected. I still have this mindset that many or almost all Christians are like that.About 70% of Americans identify themselves as Christian, and about 45% of Americans believe that evolution was not a factor in our creation, so assuming that pretty much all 45% are Christian, that makes roughly 64% of Christians in the US Creationists. So more often than not, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemund Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I was taught evolution, I believe in evolution. The whole matter always made sense to me. Enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Wozzeck Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Finally! Hopefully, with this, those Creationists will finally learn how to keep their opinions to themselves instead of trying to force religion in the science classroom. Honestly? Religion has no place in any secular education, as what do the people who aren't Christian say to the stuff they learn in those classrooms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Why is it bull? Because that is my belief, but I is not gonna get into a forum debate, what is the use?Man evolved from ape? Give me a break. If so, like I said, why don't we keep evolving out of apes? Answer that to me, Shuuda. Why don't we still keep descending out of them? We did once, according to your theories. Why not now? Did the apes die? I don't think so. Why did we learn to talk? Why did apes not? Eh? You know that saying that a little bit of information never did anyone any harm? As demonstraited in this post, having only a little information is even more dangerous than having none. It's when people talk about things but for all the wrong reasons that we see all the crazies emerge. Completely ignorant people have the common sense to shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I can't think of anything relevant to say, honestly. I just feel that this needed to be posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 People have to be eased out of denial, silly Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) I can't think of anything relevant to say, honestly. I just feel that this needed to be posted. Neato! A new map of the world! Edited February 12, 2009 by Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Wozzeck Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I can't think of anything relevant to say, honestly. I just feel that this needed to be posted. Ah, yes, I almost forgot about that issue of National Geographic. It came out a few years ago as well, too, though I saw very little controversy surrounding it IIRC. (Then again, I always looked at NG as a kid because the photography is and always has been amazingly awesome, so I never read the entire article.) Neato! A new map of the world! If you're trying to be witty, it's not working... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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