Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Well I believe that Death is essentially right. Loki is only posted this thread because he cannot stand being told he is not good. Edited February 14, 2009 by Shuuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thank you, Vincent. At least it has a chance. As I said earlier, feedback to me is okay, but lately it's gotten out of hand, seeing that most people don't like me. I hate to report posts, I really do, but sometimes, even when leaving warnings that I do not wish feedback, people still went in and left some, and feedback that to me seemed as if they were ridiculing or just trolling to make me have a bad time. Well, everything you said is true, Vincent, so I really have nothing much to add, aside from wanting to know whether I was wrong or the people who were violating my wishes. I'll let the others discuss this as well and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) feedback to me is okay, but lately it's gotten out of hand, seeing that most people don't like me. Only because you are the one no accepting it. Believe it or not, we are not actually flaming you, we are being honest. Like I said earlier, the only reason you want to disallow feedback is because you cannot stand being told that you are not good. Vincent can read through the "Raid" feedback thread, and he will see your intentions with this topic. Personally, I believe the writer has the right to allow or disallow feedback. Well, I believe the opposite. All art should be subjected to people's opinions as long as they are not flaming, fair and simple. Disallowing all feedback is censorship... and not the reasonable kind. Edited February 14, 2009 by Shuuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 I just wanted to show this here because IMO, I believe that is how feedback should be given to a member, not with other tones or ridiculing ways. A good feedback member should go and says something like this: Oh hey, Loki, what's up, buddy? Anyway, not much here, just passing by to give you feedback. I read your story and it was so-so. Here is the mistakes I found out that you need to improve on, bud. ((insert random mistakes here.)) ((insert random mistakes here.)) ((insert random mistakes here.)) Other than that, keep it up, don't get frustrated, you'll eventually get it. --Something along that line. It doesn't have to be harsh at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Yet they still censor television. It's not up to you Shuuda. It's up to the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Well, I believe the opposite. All art should be subjected to people's opinions as only as they are not flaming, fair and simple. Alright, I expected that and I'm curious about your belief. I probably should have mentioned that my belief alone isn't going to change the rules just yet. I also understand the notion of commenting on artwork and free speech. However, what if people don't want to hear it? It might sound odd, since they have nothing to gain by doing so, but why shouldn't the artist have a choice? Or is it a matter of why should they? Sometimes even I don't know. In any case, I think it might be okay to leave feedback, as long as the writer insists otherwise so it doesn't clutter up their story thread (and they don't have a feedback thread). Even thought the writer might not want any, so it the feedback might be a waste of time (which might not be such a big issue as long as it wasn't an in-depth analysis or something). So, I guess the main issue on hand is the attitude of people giving feedback and the people who respond to the aforementioned feedback. EDIT Hmm, I'll probably ask for NTG or another staff member's opinion or some points, since this sector isn't one I'm all too familiar with. Being a closet/non-artist. However, even I'm aware some of my stuff is hardly quality material. As for censorship, I don't really have an opinion on it just now. Although I guess if it doesn't break any other forum rules (at this point at least), I suppose there's no valid reason to "censor". Edited February 14, 2009 by VincentASM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) I believe that is how feedback should be given to a member, not with other tones or ridiculing ways. It cannot work like that. All criticisms have to have a ridiculing tone and harshness, that is the whole point. We are pointing out your mistakes, not making you feel good. Why should we have to sugar-coat our opinions? Why must everyone give you a friendly thumbs up, even if they do not want to? Sometimes, the truth is harsh, not our fault or problem. However, what if people don't want to hear it? Tough luck to him I am afraid. No offence. There are lots of things I do not want to hear; but so long as it is not flaming, then I cannot tell them not to say it to me now can I? It should not be within our abilities to control what people say to us to that extent. Edited February 14, 2009 by Shuuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) So, I guess the main issue on hand is the attitude of people giving feedback and the people who respond to the aforementioned feedback. For the most part, yes. Like I said, feedback is alright when given in a civilized manner. When it gets out of hand though, it tends to get annoying and frustrating for a writer. Edit--Anyway, Shuuda, if you say that is the way it has to be, then I disagree. First of all, you'd be violating the forum rules. Secondly, it could be an excuse for any feedbacker to use just to troll or ridicule. How can you help someone like this? Please, dont make me laugh. Edited February 14, 2009 by Löki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) It cannot work like that. All criticisms have to have a ridiculing tone and harshness, that is the whole point. We are pointing out your mistakes, not licking your arse.Why should we have to sugar-coat our opinions? Why must everyone give you a friendly thumbs up, even if they do not want to? Sometimes, the truth is harsh, not our fault or problem. The rest I have no problem with, but All criticisms have to have a ridiculing tone and harshness is something I can't agree with. There must be many people out there who are able to give valid criticism without being harsh or seemingly ridiculous. We're not asking people to be super nice to everyone and give everyone a thumbs up, I think at least, but I don't really see the need in following the opposite extreme. However, if the middle-way doesn't work, then I guess that might be a problem. Also, I'm no critic, so I'll admit I don't know how hard it can be to get a point across. Edited February 14, 2009 by VincentASM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) @Loki One thing I've noticed: You don't take negative feedback well even if it is in a civilized manner. Like I said, feedback is alright when given AND taken in a civilized manner. When it gets out of hand though, it tends to get annoying and frustrating for a writer. A writer will provoke those that give feedback if he responds to negative feedback like a total douche. Edited February 14, 2009 by Levin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 The rest I have no problem with, but All criticisms have to have a ridiculing tone and harshness is something I can't agree with. There must be many people out there who are able to give valid criticism without being harsh or seemingly ridiculous. We're not asking people to be super nice to everyone and give everyone a thumbs up, I think at least, but I don't really see the need in following the opposite extreme.However, if the middle-way doesn't work, then I guess that might be a problem. Also, I'm no critic, so I'll admit I don't know how hard it can be to get a point across. I agree. Here is what I added to my last post... Edit--Anyway, Shuuda, if you say that is the way it has to be, then I disagree. First of all, you'd be violating the forum rules. Secondly, it could be an excuse for any feedbacker to use just to troll or ridicule. How can you help someone like this? Please, dont make me laugh. @LokiOne thing I've noticed: You don't take negative feedback well even if it is in a civilized manner. A writer will provoke those that give feedback if he responds to negative feedback like a total douche. How can I take it well when I know it's meant as a ridiculing way? And the douche would be those who go and troll and just say something that has no use for the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Like I said, feedback is alright when given in a civilized manner. Just because I am not friendly, does not mean that I am not civil. Secondly, it could be an excuse for any feedbacker to use just to troll or ridicule. You clearly have not read what I have said. "All art should be subjected to people's opinions as long as they are not flaming, fair and simple." Get it now? Edited February 14, 2009 by Shuuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Just because I am not friendly, does not mean that I am not civil.You clearly have not read what I have said. "All art should be subjected to people's opinions as long as they are not flaming, fair and simple." Get it now? Pointing out someone's mistake in its self is ridiculing. Oh, but what you don't get is that people are trolling, they just don't admit it. Trust me, I know, I can almost be certain when I read a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Then report them and let the mod decide. In "the Raid" feedback thread, the mod who came in clearly stated that I was not trolling. Edited February 14, 2009 by Shuuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 How can I take it well when I know it's meant as a ridiculing way? And the douche would be those who go and troll and just say something that has no use for the writer. First, read this again: It's a feedback subforum, not ass kissing. If you don't want such comments, don't make a feedback thread. If they post such comments in the writing thread, then they're obviously trolling and should be ignored. Secondly, you may want to show proof of the bolded part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 If you think they're trolling, report them or just ignore them. Also, if you know what they're doing, you shouldn't want to fall into their trap, right? I'm saying this in general; I've barely finished reading one feedback thread, which was relatively tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Ok, so I said what I wanted to say. I'll just wait and see what happens with this rule. IMO, and that is just that, my opinion, a writer should be entitled to make rules for his/her story, regardless of what others may think. I really never liked feedback anyway, because I knew it tended to get out of hand. What happens is this, simply said. If the rule does not get passed, then I'll just stop writing just to avoid further trouble. And since I don't have much else to do besides writing and posting, I believe I will leave and try to find another place where things might be calmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Wait, you're threatening to leave unless the rule is passed? Not only is that a really bad last ditch effort, but it'll be hurting only you. Stop being a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deity Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Wait, you're threatening to leave unless the rule is passed? Not only is that a really bad last ditch effort, but it'll be hurting only you.Stop being a baby. I am not threatening anyone. And it wont be hurting me since all I do is leave and find another place. You must be too blind to realize that all I want to do is avoid further trouble with the matter at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I really never liked feedback anyway, because I knew it tended to get out of hand. Really now? I can point to threads where feedback did not get out of hand: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10408 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11182 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11285 I will admit that I do have a very frustrated tone when handling you, but I find it more than justified for reasons people can hear over a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I am not threatening anyone. And it wont be hurting me since all I do is leave and find another place. You must be too blind to realize that all I want to do is avoid further trouble with the matter at hand. You basically said "BAAAAAAAAAAAW BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW I'M GONNA LEAVE IF YOU DON'T MAKE IT SO THAT NO ONE GIVES ME FEEDBACK, BUT ALLOW ME TO MAKE A FEEDBACK THREAD AND I'LL FIND SOME OTHER PLACE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW". That's some twisted and ineffectual way to try get what you want. You don't want to avoid furthur trouble. You want to be the dictator of this forum. If something doesn't go your way, you think that threatening to leave means that they'll automatically agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Fuck you Jarly. Anyhow, I won't respond to any of Jarly's points because he is impossible to reason with and will never accept anything, so I'll just say what I think. Criticism is just that. Critical. If it didn't criticize, it can't make people improve. Now, Shuuda is very nice and kind with his criticisms, until the person he is criticizing starts being silly. It just so happens that some people here are physically incapable of realizing any flaws in anything they have ever thought or made (lolJarly). Ever. Thus, things escalate. If I had my way, Jarly would have been banned back when he was shitting on all that is holy and good the last time, but I obviously don't. :( Anyhow, I say don't pass that rule, because then he won't write, and then we all win. Except he will write, because he goes "BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW I AM LEAVING FOREVER" every month or so, then comes back and vomits retard bile all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Wow. This is just sad. Loki, EVERYONE who has seen your feedback topics know that you: 1.Cannot take criticism at all 2.Always retort with "Lol stop trolling me!" "Shuuda's the devil! He wont leave me alone!" or "YOU ALL JUST HATE ME BAWWWWW." The solution, grow up. Get over it. The criticism is to point out your mistakes and help you learn from them. Shuuda takes time to point out every freaking mistake you make (and you make alot of them). Have you ever thought of how long that must take shuuda to do? To quote every incorrect point, say what you did wrong and how to fix it/improve on your story? And yet YOU, yes, YOU typically respond like either a douche, or go "stop trolling me bawwwww!" Suck it up and take the criticism, improve your writing, or don't post your stories if you cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Will someone suspend the dumbass eventually? Almost every topic he posts in turns to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I also want to point that when someone like Masu doesn't want criticism he just ignores it, thus CIRCUMVENTING THE PROBLEM ENTIRELY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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