Doom's Humble Religious Analysis

[bunny: spider bitten]

What's the difference?

Didn't see this earlier.

Blindness has no direction, while going in the wrong direction will, at worst, dig a deeper hole.

If you believe what you're doing is pleasing God and he is in turn making you happy, then you'll continue as you are are continue to be happy. Of course, the second he lets you down you can't blame him. You let him down. You could be in the same place without God, and the only difference is the acceptance of your abilities and higher chances of using them elsewhere.

[Shuuda]

Blindness has no direction, while going in the wrong direction will, at worst, dig a deeper hole.

Blindness leads people to wander in the wrong direction.

[bunny: spider bitten]

Didn't come out nearly as well as hoped.

The Blind are lead along. Most of religious faith will live their life the same way week by week if everything is going right - Human nature.

[Esau of Isaac]

Religion has never stopped anyone from gaining knowledge.

At least not in the last few centuries. But it was a simple set of knowledge and morals in a time where counting to ten was complex math.

It also served to get in the way of scientific and societal advancement because it was too rigid and dogmatic to accept change or other viewpoints. That it has changed gradually over time doesn't change that fact.

[YokaiKnight]

No, science exists to give us the answers.

Not "No, science gives answers;" "Science gives better answers." Religion answered questions that could not be answered by conventional means, but not necessarily accurate. Science has conflicting answers to a lot of problems that religion "solved" hundreds or thousands of years ago, so of course they butt heads a lot.

[Doom103]

God's got nothing to do with me. I prefer to live my life without feeling the need to please some higher deity that I don't even know if it exists. Just my two cents.

I don't mean this offensively. Just stating my view. If this offends anyone, I apologize in advance.

I worded that highly incorrectly,

God is part of most religions

idk how I messed that up

[Bohemund]

No, science exists to give us the answers. Religion is a deterrent of knowledge (and even morality sometimes). After all, what does mankind gain from slapping a "God did it" label on things they cannot explain, and punish people who say different?

The idea of living under the jurisdiction of one being is corrupt and retarded at best. I for one are happy that we do not have a defined reason for existing, it makes existing all the more interesting.

Maybe if Religious people could come up with better arguments for their faith, I would give them more credit. In truth, the reason most people believe in their religion, is because they have been indoctrinated into it.

Religion existed before people practiced and figured out sciences. They are both used to provide answers, just one comes with solid proof.

Also, I am not a religious person by any means, so what I say comes as an educated guess.

[Bohemund]

Damnit... DP'd. Sorry.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Bohemund

[Shuuda]

Religion existed before people practiced and figured out sciences

Impossible, people have always practised science. Experimenting and observing. The discovery of fire, and the invention of the wheel and all that shit.

They are both used to provide answers, just one comes with solid proof.

And the one that comes with solid proof is the better answer.

[Kintenbo]

For me, being close to God seems to make life more pleasant. It's just my personal observation, but when my thoughts are more directed to God, things seem to go more smoothly. When it is not so, bad luck tends to happen. It could all be coincidence, but it's what I'm noticing in my life. I think religion can help people get higher moral, the desire to excel and do something with their lives. Sure, other things can do that, too, but Christianity, and the desire to live by it's standards the best I can, is my moral fuel.

[Doom103]

Shuuda I agree completely with you. Religion for the Greeks were to solve unexplainable answers not other religions.

[Bohemund]

Impossible, people have always practiced science. Experimenting and observing. The discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel, and all that shit.

And the one that comes with solid proof is the better answer.

So you caught me on my wording... what I meant was religion was used to explain things before science was. Science has always been in use, but not as a system of belief. Hence why religions are always against different scientific advancements, it ruins their appeal.

[Cynthia]

I will say that when religion was created, back then people didn't have answers to everything like we do now. Religion provided explanations to keep people at ease that they had an understanding of how things worked, and why we were here. So for a time, it made sense because we had nothing else to go on.

Of course we're in a different time. People are smarter now, and we're able to determine there is explanations to things, and whether or not religion is needed anymore is debatable. Back then though it made sense to people, and we can't deny that.

I'm not going to say Atheism is right, because personally I see them do things I detest. I also won't say religion is right either, because I see things they do that I detest. All in all I think NO one has the right answer, and we waste more time arguing about it than we do actually trying to use religion for what it should be used for. To give us lessons and ideas to be good people. And I'm not saying good by anyone's opinion, I mean good as in just good in general. Like not going around and killing each other, being nice to people, etc. Whether you see it in the religious way because, "God says so," or the scientific way of, "society can not function if we're permitted to go around killing each other." Does it really matter why you believe in such things?

The fact of the matter is, we shall NEVER be able to make everyone believe the same thing. It's impossible due to free will. People will believe what they want. Instead of disagreeing and arguing all the time, we should develop the skill to just know people will always disagree and just to get over it.

[Janissary]

I will say that when religion was created, back then people didn't have answers to everything like we do now. Religion provided explanations to keep people at ease that they had an understanding of how things worked, and why we were here. So for a time, it made sense because we had nothing else to go on.

We don't exactly have answers though. We know more, but with how complex some parts of our bodies are, that doesn't really matter much.

Of course we're in a different time. People are smarter now, and we're able to determine there is explanations to things, and whether or not religion is needed anymore is debatable. Back then though it made sense to people, and we can't deny that.

Relgion still makes sense to people now. And, people are not smarter now. If this was true, the current smartest person in the world would be the smartest person ever to live, and I'm pretty sure you'd not agree with that, and instead name someone like Einstein or Edison. There is more information about, but people are in no way smarter, because intelligence is an inward trait.

I'm not going to say Atheism is right, because personally I see them do things I detest. I also won't say religion is right either, because I see things they do that I detest. All in all I think NO one has the right answer, and we waste more time arguing about it than we do actually trying to use religion for what it should be used for.

Relativism with a twist of nihilism it seems. Sorry to say this, but your never going to agree with anyone but yourself. In order to follow any sort of creed/belief system, you need to just lay at least one of your convictions aside and change it to a different conviction. Soon, that becomes your real conviction and yo actually believe it. Why must this occur? Don't ask me, you'll get a christian answer. So, while I am at it, no, Atheism is not right. Sorry, had to get that one in there for Jesus.

While I am on that, Jesus is very poorly represented today. The sarcastic comment I just made shows that. Today, Christians feel like they have to say "Atheism is shit" in nice christian words (atheists are so uninformed about God). Honestly, we don't. We were not told to do that. Read the Bible. Who was Jesus spending most of his yelling at? Uber Religous people. Again, UBER RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. Who did he spend time with and love? UBER "bad" people, whores, theives, etc. Not saying anyone here is like that, but I am simply making a point that this christian isolationism and hyperhate of society is absolutely ridiculous.

To give us lessons and ideas to be good people. And I'm not saying good by anyone's opinion, I mean good as in just good in general. Like not going around and killing each other, being nice to people, etc. Whether you see it in the religious way because, "God says so," or the scientific way of, "society can not function if we're permitted to go around killing each other." Does it really matter why you believe in such things?

I simply disagree here. You need to feel convicted that killing is wrong. If you get intensely mad (say, someone raped your sister), what holds you back from shooting them? I don't think "the welfare of society" stops you. If that was true, that fag would not have raped your sister. You need to be convicted killing is wrong because (God said so, etc, w/e).

It very much matters why I believe what I believe. For example, why is are most of American christians Arminian Christians (that means they think they chose) as opposed to Calvinist Christians (God changed your heart so that you could believe and choose God)? Calvinism is definately more biblically accurate. Why don't Christians believe it? Because we like to control things, and this continues with God. We want freedom, and saying we choose God allows that.

What you are basically saying is as long as we all end up at teh same result, the journey is irrelevant, and I don't think you actually think that, because it's painfully obvious that people's circumstances cause their beliefs, and shape them.

The fact of the matter is, we shall NEVER be able to make everyone believe the same thing. It's impossible due to free will. People will believe what they want. Instead of disagreeing and arguing all the time, we should develop the skill to just know people will always disagree and just to get over it.

No, we should develop the skill of not hating people who are not like us. The problem is not that there are disagreements, the problem is that people think these disagreements equate to hate, or that the one Christian who says "God hates Gays" equates for all of them. News flash, my God of the bible does not hate gays. If you think he does, go read the bible again. My God does not hate anyone, he hates their actions. I think a lot of people have bad feel for christianity because of some christians. But, to each his own.

Oh, and I apologize for any problems you've had with Christians in the past. You know how Suicide bombers are a minority in Islam? Well, "hate" Christians are (or should be) a minority in Christianity. Sure, we've had our bad times (read as: the entire middle ages, on a general basis) but I think if you intellectually look at it, you can at least credit us as making the most sense of any major religions. It's up to you to act on that conviction if you receieve it.

[Cynthia]

We don't exactly have answers though. We know more, but with how complex some parts of our bodies are, that doesn't really matter much.

Relgion still makes sense to people now. And, people are not smarter now. If this was true, the current smartest person in the world would be the smartest person ever to live, and I'm pretty sure you'd not agree with that, and instead name someone like Einstein or Edison. There is more information about, but people are in no way smarter, because intelligence is an inward trait.

Relativism with a twist of nihilism it seems. Sorry to say this, but your never going to agree with anyone but yourself. In order to follow any sort of creed/belief system, you need to just lay at least one of your convictions aside and change it to a different conviction. Soon, that becomes your real conviction and yo actually believe it. Why must this occur? Don't ask me, you'll get a christian answer. So, while I am at it, no, Atheism is not right. Sorry, had to get that one in there for Jesus.

While I am on that, Jesus is very poorly represented today. The sarcastic comment I just made shows that. Today, Christians feel like they have to say "Atheism is shit" in nice christian words (atheists are so uninformed about God). Honestly, we don't. We were not told to do that. Read the Bible. Who was Jesus spending most of his yelling at? Uber Religous people. Again, UBER RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. Who did he spend time with and love? UBER "bad" people, whores, theives, etc. Not saying anyone here is like that, but I am simply making a point that this christian isolationism and hyperhate of society is absolutely ridiculous.

I simply disagree here. You need to feel convicted that killing is wrong. If you get intensely mad (say, someone raped your sister), what holds you back from shooting them? I don't think "the welfare of society" stops you. If that was true, that fag would not have raped your sister. You need to be convicted killing is wrong because (God said so, etc, w/e).

It very much matters why I believe what I believe. For example, why is are most of American christians Arminian Christians (that means they think they chose) as opposed to Calvinist Christians (God changed your heart so that you could believe and choose God)? Calvinism is definately more biblically accurate. Why don't Christians believe it? Because we like to control things, and this continues with God. We want freedom, and saying we choose God allows that.

What you are basically saying is as long as we all end up at teh same result, the journey is irrelevant, and I don't think you actually think that, because it's painfully obvious that people's circumstances cause their beliefs, and shape them.

No, we should develop the skill of not hating people who are not like us. The problem is not that there are disagreements, the problem is that people think these disagreements equate to hate, or that the one Christian who says "God hates Gays" equates for all of them. News flash, my God of the bible does not hate gays. If you think he does, go read the bible again. My God does not hate anyone, he hates their actions. I think a lot of people have bad feel for christianity because of some christians. But, to each his own.

Oh, and I apologize for any problems you've had with Christians in the past. You know how Suicide bombers are a minority in Islam? Well, "hate" Christians are (or should be) a minority in Christianity. Sure, we've had our bad times (read as: the entire middle ages, on a general basis) but I think if you intellectually look at it, you can at least credit us as making the most sense of any major religions. It's up to you to act on that conviction if you receieve it.

This is sort of what I mean about disagreeing and such here...

Have to pick apart a statement that was meant to end an argument to keep it going...

Edited February 27, 2009 by Cynthia

[Bohemund]

This is sort of what I mean about disagreeing and such here...

Have to pick apart a statement that was meant to end an argument to keep it going...

I found your argument to make sense. Especially since it supported mine!

[Janissary]

If you consider attempting to support your beliefs (whatever they may be) "continuing an argument", so be it. But, I had not responded yet, and I found your post to be a good foundation for my entrance. I'd "pick apart" anyone's post if need be. It's the best way to respond, because it groups things, instead of putting stuff into a WALL of TEXT, which everyone hates.

I tried to be very respectful about posting my argument and thoughts, and I apologize if I did not come across that way.

[Doom103]

We don't exactly have answers though. We know more, but with how complex some parts of our bodies are, that doesn't really matter much.

-_- we have answers to almost everything, there are some things too dangerous to test, but in time as our society advances we will know thoes things. We aren't blind religion can't answer anything. It's all a blind faith, like I said in the OP

Relgion still makes sense to people now. And, people are not smarter now. If this was true, the current smartest person in the world would be the smartest person ever to live, and I'm pretty sure you'd not agree with that, and instead name someone like Einstein or Edison. There is more information about, but people are in no way smarter, because intelligence is an inward trait.

We are more knowledgeable now, Plato could be said smarter than Einstein, Einstein had scientific knowledge and resources Plato didn't have. It doesn't matter who is smarter, just who has the better resources.

Relativism with a twist of nihilism it seems. Sorry to say this, but your never going to agree with anyone but yourself. In order to follow any sort of creed/belief system, you need to just lay at least one of your convictions aside and change it to a different conviction. Soon, that becomes your real conviction and yo actually believe it. Why must this occur? Don't ask me, you'll get a christian answer. So, while I am at it, no, Atheism is not right. Sorry, had to get that one in there for Jesus.

Your wrong, judging people personal beliefs is hypocritical like most religious people. Religion is not wrong and neither is Atheism. Only reason you are probably religious is becuase you seek salvation as opposed to nothingness.

I simply disagree here. You need to feel convicted that killing is wrong. If you get intensely mad (say, someone raped your sister), what holds you back from shooting them? I don't think "the welfare of society" stops you. If that was true, that fag would not have raped your sister. You need to be convicted killing is wrong because (God said so, etc, w/e).

Fear holds you back. We don't want to face consequences and thoes who want to kill them will and take the consequences

It very much matters why I believe what I believe. For example, why is are most of American christians Arminian Christians (that means they think they chose) as opposed to Calvinist Christians (God changed your heart so that you could believe and choose God)? Calvinism is definately more biblically accurate. Why don't Christians believe it? Because we like to control things, and this continues with God. We want freedom, and saying we choose God allows that.

There is no such things as an accurate bible, or a more accurate bible I could publish brebfirebrkiheb bebsq and it will be as accurate as the Catholic bible

Oh, and I apologize for any problems you've had with Christians in the past. You know how Suicide bombers are a minority in Islam? Well, "hate" Christians are (or should be) a minority in Christianity. Sure, we've had our bad times (read as: the entire middle ages, on a general basis) but I think if you intellectually look at it, you can at least credit us as making the most sense of any major religions. It's up to you to act on that conviction if you receieve it.

Make the most sense? Religion doesn't make sense it's all illogical, it's just a blind faith that helps and scares people

If you read my op alot of this is nothing

[Janissary]

There's too much stuff there for me to repsond right now (don't have time), but I will comment on your Bible comment.

I was refering to using the bible, assuming it as true, and creating a doctrine from it, a creed so to speak. So, the truth doesn't matter as much to make my point valid.

But, as a general gist from that, would I be correct to say you are a relativist for the most part? I'm just sort of curious what you'd call yourself.

[Doom103]

There's too much stuff there for me to repsond right now (don't have time), but I will comment on your Bible comment.

I was refering to using the bible, assuming it as true, and creating a doctrine from it, a creed so to speak. So, the truth doesn't matter as much to make my point valid.

But, as a general gist from that, would I be correct to say you are a relativist for the most part? I'm just sort of curious what you'd call yourself.

I wouldn't say so, generally because I have no idea what it mean

**Goes to dictionary.com....... still nothing

[Ragnell]

I've thought about religion a lot recently, and I say that many people do just believe in God so they can get to heaven, or escape from hell. But the people who do this aren't truly religious. They are the fools who give others of us a bad name. I don't go flaunting my religion, because that is not the way the bible says to do it. The best way to live is simply to love and respect everyone (not in a creepy way). And because of that, I don't even care if there is no God, because the morals I have are truly loving. Give me a reason why loving everyone is bad.

And when I say love, I mean wanting what's best for another person, regardless of your own wants. That is true love.

[Kriemhild]

Here's how it is in Islam. Allah (God) gave us a lot of stuff. Our bodies, our minds, this earth and nearly everything there is in the earth. So as normal human beings, shouldn't we be grateful to Him? He gave us certain rules which really shouldn't be very difficult to follow. How hard would it be to pray five times a day? But He knows that there are humans that will be corrupted by their desires and seek the rewards of this world while ignoring their religion. And it wouldn't be that hard to get whatever you want illegally. They forgot their Lord and as punishment, they will spend eternity on Hell in the afterlife and Hell is far worse than any other torment seen in this world. Yes, the word "eternity" was used literally. Those that follow the laws of Islam and worship ONLY Allah while they only seek the pleasures of the afterlife will be taken to Heaven to live for eternity. And Heaven is far more superior to anything you've seen in this world. Since you're gonna live in this world for around 80 years while you live in the afterlife for eternity, I see no reason why ANYONE would prefer to take the rewards of this world over the afterlife unless they just don't believe it or are already corrupted.

TC said something about how Muslims kill for their God. Here's some advice I heard from somewhere: If you want to study Islam then study Islam, don't study the Muslims. We don't fight unless we have to. If they attack us first, then we'll defend ourselves. If they refuse to settle it peacefully, then what choice do we have? I'm not a warrior myself but if Muslims go and kill innocent people intentionally, then you can NOT consider them Muslims. We were told to act just even to the disbelievers. Don't assume anything about a religion because of the actions of people who claim to be on that religion.

[Nightmare]

Those that follow the laws of Islam and worship ONLY Allah while they only seek the pleasures of the afterlife will be taken to Heaven to live for eternity.

I'm not sure about seeking only the pleasures of the afterlife. There are passages from the Koran that say God has made the world for our enjoyment, so we shouldn't be isolating ourselves from it. You're faltering if you only focus on this world. Enjoying what this world has to offer while also planting seeds for the other is the way to go.

In fact, I think isolation from the pleasures of this world is a sin.

[YokaiKnight]

if Muslims go and kill innocent people intentionally, then you can NOT consider them Muslims.

Uh, yes you can. The same way if a Christian slaughters a bunch of innocents, they're still Christian, if a Buddhist rapes dozens of women, they're still Buddhist, and so on.

[Nightmare]

I think what he meant was that they aren't true Muslims, since they're violating the laws of Islam.