Your problems with Christians

[Janissary]

Hey, I am jsut wondering what some of your problems with Christians are. I don't want to here stuff like "Christ sucks" or "Christianity does not make sense". That's fine if you think that, but this thread is for people to say stuff like "I am gay, and so, I don't like how they hate gay people so much." and other things of that nature. I will try to respond to these issues as much as possible, the way I think they should actually be responded to, because, honestly, I think Christians have fucked it up. Yes, I just used the f word and I call myself a Christian. Get over it.

Well, thanks.

[Steven Tyler]

Three words:

"People." "Are." "Ignorant."

Thank you for you time. Now, if you excuse me, I don't wanna get drag into a flame war or a debate. Ta-ta.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Proud_Black_Man

[Cynthia]

When they draw attention to the fact that they are Christian like it should affect the rest of us? Sort of like what this topic is doing.

[Defeatist Elitist]

My problem with Christians? Most of the time I have a problem when they try to broadcast their beliefs as a reasonable alternative to Scientific advances, and then when I point out the fact that it isn't they tend to bitch at me.

So really, I wouldn't have any problems if they just didn't talk, or when they did they realized that they have no ground to stand on, so they really should stay out of the way of anybody who knows what they're talking about.

I don't hate Christians or anything ( I wish people wouldn't be Christian, and a host of other things, but meh), I just don't take kindly to people trying to pretend that their beliefs are reasonable when they really aren't. :(

[Janissary]

Three words:

"People." "Are." "Ignorant."

Thank you for you time. Now, if you excuse me, I don't wanna get drag into a flame war or a debate. Ta-ta.

I'm not going to flame anyone.

I'm sorry Christians have given you that impression. Some of us are actually free thinkers and intelligent, and we honestly think it's the most true thing out there, not some stupid crutch because I am an old lady about to die scared of hell.

BTW, that Avatar + Member Title is epic wyn.

My problem with Christians? Most of the time I have a problem when they try to broadcast their beliefs as a reasonable alternative to Scientific advances, and then when I point out the fact that it isn't they tend to bitch at me.

So really, I wouldn't have any problems if they just didn't talk, or when they did they realized that they have no ground to stand on, so they really should stay out of the way of anybody who knows what they're talking about.

I don't hate Christians or anything ( I wish people wouldn't be Christian, and a host of other things, but meh), I just don't take kindly to people trying to pretend that their beliefs are reasonable when they really aren't.

We have no grounf to stand on with science I assume. Yeah, basically. But the appeal to being a Christian should never have anytihng to do with "scientific explanation". Why are people christians? I narrow it to about 3 categories, but these are very general:

1. They Love Jesus

2. They are scared of Hell and treat the bible as legalism

3. They want to fit in with there friends

Obviously, the first one is the correct way to be, but unfortunately, the Church seems to be perverted with group number 2 mostly.

I won't sit here and say stuff like Evolution is wrong (which it very well may be), because, honestly, I don't know if it is or not. Some strong arguments have been brought against it (by mostly Christian advocates, but their findings have been accepted by Non-christian scientists), but at the same time, Darwin did do a very good job explaining many problems there are with the world today. My fault with his logic is he never really explained where this stuff came from, only how it got so diverse. Since no valid idea has been posted since his time, I went with Christianity.

Sorry about your bad expiriences with us though. I'll try my best to make your expirience with me a better representation of how it should be, not how it is today.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Janissary

[CGV]

i have my reasons, but this wont last long

[Doom103]

Overly religious people are filled with hypocrisy. If one is truly a disciple of God, then accept all people despite what a book a bunch of Greeks and Romans wrote

[Steven Tyler]

I'm not going to flame anyone.

I'm sorry Christians have given you that impression. Some of us are actually free thinkers and intelligent, and we honestly think it's the most true thing out there, not some stupid crutch because I am an old lady about to die scared of hell.

BTW, that Avatar + Member Title is epic wyn.

I know they're both made of win because I'm awesome like that. I'm a Christian myself with a heavy free mind and hell, I believe the power of science and I go as far as believing that evolution might be true. I have no bias towards other religion or people who don't believe in a God. The only Christians (matter of fact, religious people) I can't stand are the Fred Phelps extremist type who use hatred as a way to spread their religion. Make the rest of us look like jackasses.

As long you don't force your viewpoints on a God (or lack of God), I won't have no problems. I also won't force my religious viewpoints on anyone unless they really want to more about God. I just keep my mouth shut most of the time about this subject.

Now, enjoy the flame war, ignorance, and bias that is coming in this topic.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Proud_Black_Man

[Florete]

I just don't take kindly to people trying to pretend that their beliefs are reasonable when they really aren't. :(

That's really more subjective than anything.

My sister broke up with her second boyfriend because of the church.

She broke up with her third because my family harassed him all the time for not being a Christian.

Yeah, the church can really suck at times. But really, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with someone being a Christian or not unless that person is trying to shove their beliefs on you all the time. This goes both ways. I don't want to hear about how God is my savior, I've heard it a million times. I also don't want to hear why Science says God can't exist, I've heard that plenty of times as well. Seriously, I think most elements of Christianity vs. Science can be combined into something that makes enough sense, at least enough for everyone to stop bitching about it.

[Janissary]

Overly religious people are filled with hypocrisy. If one is truly a disciple of God, then accept all people despite what a book a bunch of Greeks and Romans wrote

This is probably the most valid point you can find against Christianity. We claim to be loving, but seriously, I don't know who we think we are fooling. I'll assume you mean the bible as that book the Greeks and Romans wrote, and that you are refering to stuff like "Don't be homosexual". Yeah, I agree. We should be able to be friends with and have a relationsip with anyone, regardless of stuff like that.

I disagree with your tone there. Your assuming you know the truth of God, and I am pretty sure we can all agree no one can realy know truth of God. We just have our bets guesses. But you bring up a real good point, and I am sorry that the Church today is like that.

[Cynthia]

When they draw attention to the fact that they are Christian like it should affect the rest of us? Sort of like what this topic is doing.

Since this was completely ignored I shall diverge into it deeper in saying: personal beliefs should be just that, personal.

[Defeatist Elitist]

We have no grounf to stand on with science I assume. Yeah, basically. But the appeal to being a Christian should never have anytihng to do with "scientific explanation". Why are people christians? I narrow it to about 3 categories, but these are very general:

1. They Love Jesus

2. They are scared of Hell and treat the bible as legalism

3. They want to fit in with there friends

Obviously, the first one is the correct way to be, but unfortunately, the Church seems to be perverted with group number 2 mostly.

I won't sit here and say stuff like Evolution is wrong (which it very well may be), because, honestly, I don't know if it is or not. Some strong arguments have been brought against it (by mostly Christian advocates, but their findings have been accepted by Non-christian scientists), but at the same time, Darwin did do a very good job explaining many problems there are with the world today. My fault with his logic is he never really explained where this stuff came from, only how it got so diverse. Since no valid idea has been posted since his time, I went with Christianity.

Sorry about your bad expiriences with us though. I'll try my best to make your expirience with me a better representation of how it should be, not how it is today.

You're doing it RIGHT NOW. Especially the bold.

Because you see, Evolution is not something you can argue against. Its a fact. It has been proven and observed in nature. Denying evolution is paramount to denying Gravity. Its not a negotiable subject, the church just like to muck up the issue because it proves how shitty their explanations tend to be, in addition to the degree they get in the way of progress. There are entirely valid and well supported theories for the origin of life. So I don't see how you can say that no valid idea to where everything came from has been put forward. In fact, they've created basic proteins (which basically translates to life) in labs before from entirely non-living components. So really, you're fighting an uphill battle here. You cannot deny Evolution while retaining credibility as a properly thinking individual.

And of course this all comes down to the idea of "I don't know/don't care/don't want to know/am to apathetic to know how the world really works so I'll fill in the gaps with a magic pixie".

[Janissary]

Since this was completely ignored I shall diverge into it deeper in saying: personal beliefs should be just that, personal.

My bad. I did not notice your post, sorry.

In my opinion, personal convictions should not be jsut personal. If you have an honest conviction about something, you should not simply ignore it in public. Your beliefs are part of who you are. Part of being Osama bin Laden is being a Sunni Muslim. Part of being the Pope is being Catholic. Part of being myself is being a christian. If you find a fault in that, whatever. I just try to be who I am.

I started this thread because it's obvious there are many people here who have bad ideas about Chrisitanity in my opinion. These ideas exist because some other Christians are idiots, to be quite honest. I do not like being lumped with them. So, if I can change that, I'd like to try. Sure, you'll always think Christians are illogical, but Id like you to have at least one positive idea of christians, if possible. It's not like I want you to all be Christians, lolz. We are on the internet. I'm just using it as an outlet to attempt to fix the negative thoughts Christians have towards them for very valid reasons.

[Florete]

Denying evolution is paramount to denying Gravity.

To be fair, gravity in itself isn't exactly proven, it's really just a theory, even if it does make perfect sense.

[Cynthia]

My bad. I did not notice your post, sorry.

In my opinion, personal convictions should not be jsut personal. If you have an honest conviction about something, you should not simply ignore it in public. Your beliefs are part of who you are. Part of being Osama bin Laden is being a Sunni Muslim. Part of being the Pope is being Catholic. Part of being myself is being a christian. If you find a fault in that, whatever. I just try to be who I am.

I started this thread because it's obvious there are many people here who have bad ideas about Chrisitanity in my opinion. These ideas exist because some other Christians are idiots, to be quite honest. I do not like being lumped with them. So, if I can change that, I'd like to try. Sure, you'll always think Christians are illogical, but Id like you to have at least one positive idea of christians, if possible. It's not like I want you to all be Christians, lolz. We are on the internet. I'm just using it as an outlet to attempt to fix the negative thoughts Christians have towards them for very valid reasons.

I can solve the bold text right now: Don't tell us you're Christian. We won't group you with them if we don't know your Christian now will we...?

[Defeatist Elitist]

To be fair, gravity in itself isn't exactly proven, it's really just a theory, even if it does make perfect sense.

Nononononono. Nooooooooooooo. It is proven. Maybe you guys don't understand what that means. That means it has sufficient evidence supporting it, and more evidence then any alternate theory. It is a proven fact. Yes, it isn't always perfect, but the idea itself is undeniably true. I don't know how else to say this.

[Janissary]

You're doing it RIGHT NOW. Especially the bold.

Because you see, Evolution is not something you can argue against. Its a fact. It has been proven and observed in nature. Denying evolution is paramount to denying Gravity. Its not a negotiable subject, the church just like to muck up the issue because it proves how shitty their explanations tend to be, in addition to the degree they get in the way of progress. There are entirely valid and well supported theories for the origin of life. So I don't see how you can say that no valid idea to where everything came from has been put forward. In fact, they've created basic proteins (which basically translates to life) in labs before from entirely non-living components. So really, you're fighting an uphill battle here. You cannot deny Evolution while retaining credibility as a properly thinking individual.

And of course this all comes down to the idea of "I don't know/don't care/don't want to know/am to apathetic to know how the world really works so I'll fill in the gaps with a magic pixie".

I don't deny evolution. It very obviously could have been the methods used in Genesis by God to create the world. There is no Christian way to debate that. The bible says God created the world, not how he created it. If he used evolution, then this would fit with an old earth model, which is scientifically accepted. So, you could effictively merge the two ideas and maintain logical integrity, as evolution has no solution describing the beginning. It only describes what happens after the beginning.

EDIT:

Cynthia, if you can reconcile your idea with my first statement, go for it. I don't see how that would be possible.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Janissary

[Cynthia]

I'm going to be honest Janissary...

The fact you joined two days ago, and are mostly participating in religious discussion makes you look more obsessed with religion than if you just didn't say anything. So really you're defeating the purpose of what you're trying to accomplish.

Honestly, if you said nothing and just kept your beliefs to yourself, no one would know what religion you were, and you wouldn't have to worry about being, "grouped."

[Blacken]

To be fair, gravity in itself isn't exactly proven, it's really just a theory, even if it does make perfect sense.

Spoken like somebody who has no idea of how science works. "Theory" does not mean "guess" in a scientific sense and to use it as such is stupid and irresponsible. If you do not understand what you're talking about, please recuse yourself from the conversation.

[Florete]

Nononononono. Nooooooooooooo. It is proven. Maybe you guys don't understand what that means. That means it has sufficient evidence supporting it, and more evidence then any alternate theory. It is a proven fact. Yes, it isn't always perfect, but the idea itself is undeniably true. I don't know how else to say this.

You'd better find another way to say it then. The way I see things, there is no definite way to prove that gravity, evolution, or God are truth. I'm really just a very confused person.

I don't deny evolution. It very obviously could have been the methods used in Genesis by God to create the world. There is no Christian way to debate that. The bible says God created the world, not how he created it. If he used evolution, then this would fit with an old earth model, which is scientifically accepted. So, you could effictively merge the two ideas and maintain logical integrity, as evolution has no solution describing the beginning. It only describes what happens after the beginning.

EDIT:

Cynthia, if you can reconcile your idea with my first statement, go for it. I don't see how that would be possible.

I like this theory though. God did it and Science explains how. Is that a religion? :D

Spoken like somebody who has no idea of how science works. "Theory" does not mean "guess" in a scientific sense and to use it as such is stupid and irresponsible. If you do not understand what you're talking about, please recuse yourself from the conversation.

If you're such a smart person, enlighten me, don't flame me.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Defeatist Elitist]

I don't deny evolution. It very obviously could have been the methods used in Genesis by God to create the world. There is no Christian way to debate that. The bible says God created the world, not how he created it. If he used evolution, then this would fit with an old earth model, which is scientifically accepted. So, you could effictively merge the two ideas and maintain logical integrity, as evolution has no solution describing the beginning. It only describes what happens after the beginning.

EDIT:

Cynthia, if you can reconcile your idea with my first statement, go for it. I don't see how that would be possible.

But the thing is, Science DOES have an explanation to how life originated. A pretty damn well supported one too... Maybe not fully explored, but definitely enough to dismiss most other explanations.

Now, I'm willing to believe that you are a perfectly reasonable person who is just ill informed, so before we go on, I would like you to gain a basic understanding of this idea, which should be accomplish able (if in a fairly basic manner) by reading this.

[Fox]

To be fair, gravity in itself isn't exactly proven, it's really just a theory, even if it does make perfect sense.

And the sun revolves around the Earth.

[Cynthia]

I think what you're failing to realize Janissary is what you're trying to do, and how you're going about doing it.

You admitted you didn't want to be classified with the generic type of Christians on this board, and not be taken seriously just because of your religious beliefs. When if we didn't know you were Christian and didn't know your religious beliefs, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Not to mention you joined two days ago, and a majority of your posts are in topics talking about religion, where you bluntly stated you're Christian and your Christian beliefs. You basically said you don't want to be categorized like any of the other Christians so you do it by stating you're Christian instead of just keeping that bit of information a secret.

It's defeating the purpose...

[Blacken]

You'd better find another way to say it then. The way I see things, there is no definite way to prove that gravity, evolution, or God are truth.

His way of saying it is correct. He should not change it because you are incompetent.

Evolution has been observed at the genetic level. The mechanisms for mutation are known and understood. Falsifiable hypotheses have been tested and found to hold, whereas countering hypotheses are not falsifiable and have not been demonstated to be true experimentally.

Gravity has been isolated and the physical interactions necessary are known and understood. Falsifiable hypotheses have been tested and found to hold, whereas countering hypotheses are not falsifiable and have not been demonstated to be true experimentally.

God is neither falsifiable nor testable.

I'm really just a very confused person.

This is a true statement.

If you're such a smart person, enlighten me, don't flame me.

It is not a flame to call stupid and irresponsible statements stupid and irresponsible.

You are capable of using the Internet to do your own research. If you will not, it is not my responsibility nor anyone else's to do what you should be doing yourself.

And, yes, I am a smart person. I do my own research and I take the necessary steps to understand it. Perhaps you should seek to emulate it.

[Janissary]

The primordial soup concept? I have a basic idea of it now, but I will try to read most (if not all) of that at some point, I don't have time now. I am goig to go ahead and post a preliminary response though, subject to change upon reading, should I be incorrect in what I currently know about it. Heck, my point could even be explained in the article.'

Primordial Soup does not explain where the soup came from. I'll concede that life coul have been sparked from that. It doesn't matter though. Where did anyone of these elements come from? How can you possibly say it has always been there. Human minds can't grasp eternity or forever, so it seems logical to say that the earth is not forever. I just don't see how primordial soup would explain that. How either something came from straight up nothing or how the earth has been here forever.