Ugh, more server problems.

[Blacken]

Dont get yer panties in a bunch Superbus........despite what happened its just an online forum. Geez. Shit happens, and you seem to be taking it waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too hard. Yes I know a fuckton of shit was lost, I understand that hours, possibly days or weeks of hard work was lost, I understand others lost alot more than I did, but they're just gonna have to accept the fact that it happened.

It did not need to happen. That's the point.

Hell this is coming from a guy who could have cared less about this place 3 months ago, but I still think yer hammering jyo way to hard over this. So what If he did fuck up? He aint perfect.

Here's the thing: He was warned when he switched servers last time. I know, because I have IM logs that show me telling him he needed a backup at least weekly. That clearly did not happen. "He ain't perfect" is unacceptable when he was warned.

And Im pretty sure just because you send ppl to another forum, that doesnt make them "your" users per say, since im guessing thats majority of the reason yer totally flipping out over this.

Yes, it most definitely does make them Bus's people. And mine; I put in more time than it was worth addressing community problems when our users came here and they're still "my" people too.

"Remember those stories everyone laughed about on FESS about how I gave up sex to administrate issues on the board? It was shit like this. You had a paper due. Boo-hoo."

So, he should put a forum above schoolwork? Yeah. thats genius.

He should discharge his responsibilities. He has a responsibility (that, until I twisted his arm quite hard, he refused to admit he had) to his users. If he could not deliver on them immediately, he needed to find someone who could. Shit, I could have, and would have! I was talking to him at the time, he was quite able to say "hey, can you restore the backup?"--hint: it's not like I don't know my way about Serene's file system already. When the server move to a dedicated server happened, I had already done the move. If there's a trust issue, it's entirely unfounded, as no matter what an asshole I am (and believe me, I am one), I have never been accused of violating trust in any administrative capacity.

Excuses don't matter. You get things done or you find somebody who can do them.

There were options. He chose to take the worst ones. That's genius.

That wasn't his point. He fucked up "fifteen times harder in one year, than I have in five and a half years of existence." One damn year. He's saying Jyo needs to stop fucking around; if Jyo is gonna run a site, he's got to do it right.

It's the passivity that pissed us off. Josh manned up and took responsibility for his screw-ups, and that is why I'm being civil about this, but the inaction and slow action...ech.

Shit happens dude. Get over it. Grow up.

No. Shit doesn't happen if you are prepared. That's what Bus and I are both saying. We are professionals in this field with pretty intimate knowledge of how this stuff works and how to maintain a service. You are not. "Shit happens" is not an acceptable term in this line of work--and as Josh is making money off this site, he's in this line of work whether he likes it or not.

Plus, it's not even Jyo's fault. The server went down. Hundreds of sites lost data. How the hell is Jyo supposed to prevent that?

The server going down is not his fault (although there were warning signs; fsckvps is a small operation--this hack basically put them out of business. FESS was hosted with Dreamhost, a large-scale host that, while not always top-tier, was generally reliable. My own servers for clients and other purposes run on Mosso, a cheap service that's nevertheless hosted by the biggest name in the hosting industry.

It is his fault that he didn't keep backups. I have over one year of FESS backups today; if you told me to put the site and forums up just as they were in September 2007, I could, and it'd only take me as long as it took to upload it.

It is his fault he didn't have a contingency plan and reacted so passively to the problem. When FESS's domain lapsed (not quite as bad as this), it took less than two hours after being informed--because it was around 3AM and I was working on other stuff--to put u a temporary domain (it's still there, hosting FESS4, actually) and send out an email blast to members. When FESS was fucked with by Zephyr (eat a dick, you son of a bitch), it took less than six hours to restore the last backup and clean things up. It's Not That Hard To Do. Granted, he needed to set up a new server, and we didn't: that took less than 24 hours. I know, because he told me when he ordered it and he told me when it was done.

I'm hoping he's learned from this, at least.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Urist McHammerdwarf

[Hirondelle]

You sent out a group email. I'm even surprised I got it, as Marcus banned me forever ago because I took him on during one of his power trips.

Email? You mean the email...that got sent to my spam box, olol.

Well, Marcus is solely an advisor as of now, so I daresay you could register again because of the lack of membership or whatever, but that's probably something (I think) you'd rather not do, right? Because I'm sure your attatchment to FEF is super deep and intricate.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Bryars

[Mufasa]

I'm in your serious announcement, spamming it up.

What the fuck, dude.

You're hoping he will.

Bus is trying to ensure he does.

That's none of Bus's business though. Lol. It's Jyo's life. Who is Bus? His mum? His girlfriend? His secret gay admierer?

It's none of his business what Jyo does with his life. Whether he succedes or fails. Lol.

Im sick of your shit. and I can see the crossed out text, you love hurting my feelings. I will report you. I fucking hope you rot in hell.

I'll see you there you whiny bitch.

[Mufasa]

I think the point that needs to be made here is this:

IT'S JYO'S LIFE

It's his choice whether to succede or fail. He doesn't need you wimpy little bitches to complain about every mistake he makes. If he really needs you to give him a wag of the finger or tip of the hat to tell him what he's doing is right or wrong, then THAT'S the problem, not the mistakes he makes.

MIND YER OWN BUSINESS.

[uguu]

That's none of Bus's business though. Lol. It's Jyo's life. Who is Bus? His mum? His girlfriend? His secret gay admierer?

It's none of his business what Jyo does with his life. Whether he succedes or fails. Lol.

I'll see you there you whiny bitch.

Except you're doing the same thing as Bus. And it has the opposite effect.

You're trying to get Jyo to just do whatever he wants, which could end up fucking him over.

Bus is trying to tell Jyo what he should do, which won't end up fucking him over.

GEE, I WONDER WHICH ONE OF YOU IS SMARTER.

You're basically demanding that Jyo stop listening to Bus, even though he obviously will listen to Bus.

[TheEnd]

That's none of Bus's business though. Lol. It's Jyo's life. Who is Bus? His mum? His girlfriend? His secret gay admierer?

It's none of his business what Jyo does with his life. Whether he succedes or fails. Lol.

Friendship. Ever heard about that? Yeah, it means more than hanging out together in the weekend, dude.

Edited June 10, 2009 by TheEnd

[uguu]

I think the point that needs to be made here is this:

IT'S JYO'S LIFE

It's his choice whether to succede or fail. He doesn't need you wimpy little bitches to complain about every mistake he makes. If he really needs you to give him a wag of the finger or tip of the hat to tell him what he's doing is right or wrong, then THAT'S the problem, not the mistakes he makes.

MIND YER OWN BUSINESS.

I think the point that needs to be mader here is this:

IT'S JYO'S LIFE

It's his choice whether he listens to Bus or not (which he will). He doesn't need you wimpy little bitches to demand he fucks himself over. If he really needs you to stop people from giving him advice, then THAT'S a bigger problem than the mistakes he makes.

MIND YER OWN BUSINESS.

[Celice]

In this thread: people who think they have a clue and are defending things they do not really understand.

[Raven]

You're hoping he will.

Bus is trying to ensure he does.

On the contrary, my post was just a general one, not in response to any particular member, just my opinion on what the current hot topic is.

He's told us what he's going to do to make sure this won't happen again, I believe that's enough.

What's happened has happened - it can't be helped now (I know it could have been, but still). I'd imagine Jyo knows what to do to prevent this from happening again, and will pull out all the stops to ensure this.

As much as I agree with points raised, particularly the one about newer members having to rejoin, we should just try to move on. No amount of tearing Jyo a new one will restore the months we've lost, so let's work on bringing it back.

[Mufasa]

*Sigh.* Whatever, I should learn by now not to argue with people that have no awareness about the fact that they could be wrong.

Anyway, I'm getting out of here again, this is why I left in the first place. Jyo'll have to make his own choices. And he doesn't need bitches like you telling him what to do. He's a big boy now guys. Time to cut the umbillical cord.

[TheEnd]

In this thread: people who think they have a clue and are defending things they do not really understand.

Actually, this thread is now about friendship.

On the contrary, my post was just a general one, not in response to any particular member, just my opinion on what the current hot topic is.

He's told us what he's going to do to make sure this won't happen again, I believe that's enough.

What's happened has happened - it can't be helped now (I know it could have been, but still). I'd imagine Jyo knows what to do to prevent this from happening again, and will pull out all the stops to ensure this.

As much as I agree with points raised, particularly the one about newer members having to rejoin, we should just try to move on. No amount of tearing Jyo a new one will restore the months we've lost, so let's work on bringing it back.

I was just making a default remark to make my post non-spammy, to be honest. >_>

*Sigh.* Whatever, I should learn by now not to argue with people that have no awareness about the fact that they could be wrong.

Anyway, I'm getting out of here again, this is why I left in the first place. Jyo'll have to make his own choices. And he doesn't need bitches like you telling him what to do. He's a big boy now guys. Time to cut the umbillical cord.

I thought you didn't like Joshua anyway?

Edited June 10, 2009 by TheEnd

[Superbus]

I remember when Velthomer went tits-up. I believe I got a cell phone call in the middle of the night, Ed? Either then, or early in the morning. Regardless, we had a temp solution up that day, emails blasted to the members, and I kept everyone up to date via our other avenues of communication, including the IRC chat, LJ community, my personal blog, etc. A lot of you can say "it's just a forum", but the person running it can't think that; it will never grow otherwise. I don't think a lot of you understand how much sacrifice has already come from Josh and Vincent.

Furthermore, I didn't know this site had ads (lol Adblock Plus). That changes everything! Now, Josh is making money off of this. He no longer has full control, and the option to do whatever the fuck he wants; he has a responsibility to his advertisers. That is one of the many reasons I never accepted any advertising on FESS.

[Phoenix Wright]

I think the point that needs to be made here is this:

IT'S JYO'S LIFE

It's his choice whether to succede or fail. He doesn't need you wimpy little bitches to complain about every mistake he makes. If he really needs you to give him a wag of the finger or tip of the hat to tell him what he's doing is right or wrong, then THAT'S the problem, not the mistakes he makes.

MIND YER OWN BUSINESS.

You know, that's total bullshit. Bus is helping out a friend, something like that must be taboo for you, if you're gonna be acting this way about it.

If I was taking smack, crack, and popping pills everyday, I'd hope for someone to try and help me. Bus already stated he and Blacken are trying to help Jyo fix his mistakes. It's not like they're being tyrants for telling Jyo how he should fix this.

How about you actually listen to some people who make sense, instead of shutting them out, and telling them they're wrong.

[Rodykitty]

In this thread: people who think they have a clue and are defending things they do not really understand.

It is very simple to understand what Superbus is saying and trying to get at. He makes it clear as day.

[Ercdouken]

Are there any registration problems? Lux sent me a PM on YouTube saying he hasn't gotten his e-mail validation.

[Raven]

Are there any registration problems? Lux sent me a PM on YouTube saying he hasn't gotten his e-mail validation.

Same here with my friend who has tried to re-register. He hasn't received his validation email either.

[Celice]

It is very simple to understand what Superbus is saying and trying to get at. He makes it clear as day.

... What makes you think I'm referring to 'Bus.

[Sain_FEH]

Am I the odd one out to feel that losing 3 months of data on a forum isn't the end of the world? It's kind of sad that perhaps this forum is the most important thing in your life right now. I pity you people.

I'm not exactly a daily, invested member here. I do like to come around from time to time and casually post around. I *am* however a moderator on a Lord of the Rings fansite that I am involved on those daily levels. But even if we lost three months of progress there, I would be upset about it but I don't think it would call for flying off the handle like that.

People make mistakes all the time and those mistakes will be corrected. We lost discussions. We lost information. We lost members who may or may not rejoin and we lost progress. It's a sentimental loss and the loss of some work we all put in to make this site better.

But no one on our end was killed. No life savings were blanked out. No buildings were crumbled to dust and no one was hurt beyond that sense of loss that maybe you'll have to redo some stuff you've already done.

But the point is we can rebuild what was lost. Yes, it's a pain in the ass and yes it sucks to have to take the time to do it all again. But we can and we will and we should. That's just the way it has to be.

Yes, the server company messed up and yes, maybe the site admins messed up too by not having a backup. But I am the weird one because I'm not furious about this? I don't think it's necessary to call for anyone's head or fly off the handle with "f' yous" and the like. It happened. Oh well. Move on.

And again, if three months of data lost on a Fire Emblem forum is really the most important loss in your life to drive you to such blatant rudeness and disrespect, well then I feel more sorry for you than I do for the site. That's sad.

[WyvernSageLord]

Damn. It's stuff like what Blacken and Bus are rampaging about that make me wonder just what heck goes on behind the scenes of things...

Edited June 10, 2009 by WyvernSageLord

[Doom103]

-_- damn I wanted to offer the mafia game oh well

oh no! My avi and siggy are gone :o

[VincentASM]

Are there any registration problems? Lux sent me a PM on YouTube saying he hasn't gotten his e-mail validation.

I'm not really good with the technical stuff, but tell them that I validated them myself.

I dunno how people will see this, but if anyone's having any problems validation you can e-mail me with your e-mail address and/or username at:

aveyn_knight [at] yahoo [dot] co [uk]

[Rodykitty]

... What makes you think I'm referring to 'Bus.

What makes me think you're referring to 'Bus is the fact that I myself am willing to defend Bus and also some others that defend him.

Okay, I am mistaken, but at least I have a reason to be mistaken.

Damn. It stuff like what Blacken and Bus are rampaging about that make me wonder just what heck goes on behind the scenes of things...

Security, data backups, server uptime...

All networking related stuff, with a dash of common sense in managing this stuff.

Furthermore, I didn't know this site had ads (lol Adblock Plus). That changes everything! Now, Josh is making money off of this. He no longer has full control, and the option to do whatever the fuck he wants; he has a responsibility to his advertisers. That is one of the many reasons I never accepted any advertising on FESS.

SAVE YOUR QUEEN, NOW! PLAY CIVONY FOR FREE! Edited June 10, 2009 by Chainey

[Kiddo]

I didn't necessarily lose that much in the 3-month data drop either. (I happened to have a back-up text file of BSFE Week 4's rough-draft translation. This whole situation has reminded me to go into looking at revising those at some point.)

It seems the data loss thing is not so much an issue of any of the data in the board being valuable, though, as it is one of principal - the idea that no back-ups were kept, and even more data could've been lost if it weren't for coincidence, are stuff that would potentially be fatal to significantly more important avenues (which is why the uproar is being led by Jyo's friends.)

I won't really step into it much further than that.

[Doom103]

Let's look at what we've lost:

* Three months - MONTHS - worth of data. By comparison, when FESS was compromised by an inside hack job, we lost... a day and a half. And that was more because of the timing of my cron job than anything.

* Numerous lost bans. I don't forsee them being too much of an issue, but it's another security hole.

* Three months of lost signups. These are new members who are seeing a shitshow. Why should they bother signing up again? Shit, FEFF opened their new RPG, why not go to THAT shitshow? It's a shitshow, but at least it's a shitshow that doesn't randomly disappear off the face of the internet.

* Lost faith with the memberbase, especially at a time when FEFF's new RPG has opened.

* Man hours lost

That's just scratching the surface.

Now, let's look at why:

* You had one point of failure. Oh, sure, backups were kept... by your idiot ISP. You want to build browser based games, and want to be a UNIX admin, and you don't know about multiple points of failure!? Are you fucking kidding me!? A nightly cron job would have sufficed! This was like having a backup set of keys on the same keyring as your normal set; what's the fucking point?

* You have no administrative backup. Vincent is not a DB guy. Your staff members are either lightweights when it comes to that kind of overhead (LG's your best one), not technical, or functionally retarded. If you're going to be THE #1 guy, you better be ready to back that up. Remember those stories everyone laughed about on FESS about how I gave up sex to administrate issues on the board? It was shit like this. You had a paper due. Boo-hoo.

* You ignored so many warning signs that you were with a bad host that I don't even have time to get into them.

Now, we're three months lost, and it's on you. I want to hear your excuses, apologies, and other bullshit as little as everyone because honestly, I don't think you learned a fucking thing. You basically found an ancient backup from a server that should have been down, went with it, and went "*phew* fixed!". No, fucker, I don't know what's worse: that we're three months behind, or that we're LUCKY to be three months behind.

You fucked your users, and by extension, fucked me, because I sent my guys over here. By extension of your incompetence, I look stupid. How do you explain that away? How do you explain that you've had a breach and loss of data literally in a year fifteen times worse than FESS had in it's five and a half years of existence?

You can apologise and say you fucked this up all you want, because you did, but if you expect to keep the faith of the members, and most especially my faith, you need to actually do something to show that you learned from this; I swear, I almost wish this was more cataclysmic than it was, because at least then, it would have pounded the point home. I cannot believe how passive you were about this, and still don't think you *get* it.

Get a life srly

Its a forum, and its not relevant to life its just a place to kill time. This in no way affects or ruins anyone's life. idk why your angry I've been coming here for a while now almost a year and I could really care less that this happened w/e its back yi fuckin pi. If you don't this forum than open another shitty forum and stop complaining

[WyvernSageLord]

Get a life srly

Its a forum, and its not relevant to life its just a place to kill time. This in no way affects or ruins anyone's life. idk why your angry I've been coming here for a while now almost a year and I could really care less that this happened w/e its back yi fuckin pi. If you don't this forum than open another shitty forum and stop complaining

Have you been reading any of the posts that Blacken's been posting, dude? Running a forum means having a responsibility to it. It doesn't freakin' mean that they don't have lives. And Bus knows this based on experience.

If he just doesn't have the time, then he should pass adminship to someone else.