FE9 Tier List

[Colonel M]

Well, it's just another area he loses to Soren/Ilyana/Mist. They're beating him in offense/durability too. Hence, obsolete.

Alright, we already know he loses to Mist. No reason to re-iterate that.

Soren and Ilyana also aren't healing at all until they promote while Rhys has been doing it ever since C2. Soren having so much better of a support list? He has two units: Stefan and Ike, the latter of which still has many options to choose from (B Titania offers durability while Soren offers more offense and Avoid). Ilyana has some units, but they likely have better options.

We get that Rhys isn't the best supporter in the world, but he isn't obselete.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Which is why he's below Soren. But I don't see exactly how that's dropping him and Ilyana to lower mid.

[grandjackal]

Reason they shouldn't support is that it would require fielding Mia, which is a stretch, Ulki is a bigger stretch.

Kieran has Oscar/Marcia who match his Mov better and provide the same boosts. Titania has Mist/Boyd/Ike.

With this logic, we should bother with anyone below upper mid. The fact he benefits characters still exists. Helping a low tier character not be so low tier material is helping a team. Ulki however is a big stretch, thus why I didn't suggest it, just wanted to point out the boost he gets.

Keiran is a fair point. However, for Titania...

Ike-Has Soren and Oscar, of whom benefit much greater from his support as all Titania becomes is hard to kill, of which she already is. These supports are also faster. On top of it, he gets the best avoid he can hope for here, and the 1 ATK is more a benefit than 1 Def, since Ike's never gonna get hit anyways. Hell, Lethe wouldn't mind an earth boost either. With great affinity comes great responsibility, and it's irresponsible to give Earth to someone who's already a god.

Boyd's got Mist and Brom, 2 people with similar move, and give him full ATK bonus on top of the defense Titania would give anyways. These people also greatly appreciate an offense boost.

Mist- Also has Mordecai, Boyd and Jill, all of whom give much greater boosts.

On top of that, Rhys is Titania's fastest support outside of Mist who comes quite a bit later. It's not exactly impossible for them to support.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Whether or not Rhys' supports suck will not affect his positioning for the time being.

[grandjackal]

Whether or not Rhys' supports suck will not affect his positioning for the time being.

Perhaps, but I'm just saying it's not like he has absolutely nothing.

Anyways, I've pretty much said all I can about Taur vs. Largo. Your thoughts? If you see Largo is no beating Taur, you can at least see that Largo's not low material, yeah?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Eh I don't see him out of low just yet. His durability is certainly an issue that limits how much he can actually put his offense to use While Tauro's got durability as well as decent combat as well as resolve. Largo's join time damages his chances of getting skills that would help him such as vantage.

[Florete]

Here's how supports look for Rhys:

Mia-probably not being fielded, lolRolf and lolUlki, Titania and Kieran have huge Mov differences and don't want him anyway. It's ugly.

I acknowledge Rhys' earlygame usefulness, but being a waste of a slot for over half the game is pretty fail.

I think he's very comparable to Gatrie, useful for a while but using him after the first few chapters is a waste.

Waste of a slot? Wtf? How is a healer with huge Mag a waste of a slot? If it's because he's worse than other healers, just don't go there, we don't want to be down that road again (only the best units are played!).

As for supports, he's definitely nothing spectacular, but he has a few things going for him. If Mia is in play, she wants him as her A support, most definitely. If Ulki is in play, he'd respect the boost as well. There's a chance Kieran won't be full (Marcia and Oscar both have other options), so he might be able to grab a C or B there (though C is practically worthless. lol+5 hit and +2 avoid).

[-Cynthia-]

Waste of a slot? Wtf? How is a healer with huge Mag a waste of a slot? If it's because he's worse than other healers, just don't go there, we don't want to be down that road again (only the best units are played!).

As for supports, he's definitely nothing spectacular, but he has a few things going for him. If Mia is in play, she wants him as her A support, most definitely. If Ulki is in play, he'd respect the boost as well. There's a chance Kieran won't be full (Marcia and Oscar both have other options), so he might be able to grab a C or B there (though C is practically worthless. lol+5 hit and +2 avoid).

Rhys being outclassed by the other healers is pretty important, because we honestly don't need more than 2(we aren't doing that much healing ever). I guess we aren't fielding Soren/Ilyana/Mist every playthrough, in which case Rhys is useful. I just want to mention that although Rhys has good Mag, his Spd's a big problem as well as being locked to the worst magic type.

Edited July 13, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Florete]

Rhys being outclassed by the other healers is pretty important, because we honestly don't need more than 2(we aren't doing that much healing ever). I guess we aren't fielding Soren/Ilyana/Mist every playthrough, in which case Rhys is useful. I just want to mention that although Rhys has good Mag, his Spd's a big problem as well as being locked to the worst magic type.

That's true, and that's why he's lower than Mist (I personally think Rhys > Soren, but that's for another day) by a good amount. However, he's still very important for however many chapters it is before Mist shows up and isn't at all a bad replacement for healing, just inferior. And his high Mag is mainly for giving him awesome range with Physic, though IIRC, he should be able to hit pretty hard as well.

[Shadow Mir]

Rhys being outclassed by the other healers is pretty important, because we honestly don't need more than 2(we aren't doing that much healing ever). I guess we aren't fielding Soren/Ilyana/Mist every playthrough, in which case Rhys is useful. I just want to mention that although Rhys has good Mag, his Spd's a big problem as well as being locked to the worst magic type.

Not to mention his virtually nonexistent strength. And the fact that light tomes are as heavy as thunder but as damaging as wind.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Red Fox of Fire...

EDIT 2: Looking at this...

There's a chance Kieran won't be full (Marcia and Oscar both have other options), so he might be able to grab a C or B there (though C is practically worthless. lol+5 hit and +2 avoid).

What...? Sorry, Red Fox, but you're not making sense here. Looking at Oscar and Marcia...

Oscar has, Kieran aside, Ike, Tanith, and lolJanaff.

Not counting Kieran, Marcia has Gatrie (move difference), Tanith, and lolRolf.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[soundecho]

Rhys being outclassed by the other healers is pretty important, because we honestly don't need more than 2(we aren't doing that much healing ever). I guess we aren't fielding Soren/Ilyana/Mist every playthrough, in which case Rhys is useful. I just want to mention that although Rhys has good Mag, his Spd's a big problem as well as being locked to the worst magic type.

But we don't actually lose anything from fielding Rhys. He doesn't use CEXP, he uses the same walls as Soren/Ilyana/Mist do and the game bombards us with slots for extra units (and also fielding Mist AND Rhys?). His speed isn't that bad as other people would make out. Rhys ends up with 23 speed~ with a speed band (remember, the game auto levels Rhys 3 times) and he's generally the first unit to reach 20/20.

10/6 Soren has 15.6 (Around ~16.3 AS with a spd band) spd using a forged weightless tome while 20/1 Rhys has somewhere around ~14.5 with a band.

I'd imagine Rhys to be 20/1 at chapter 16. He doubles 20/39 enemies with 14 AS. If he gets 15 AS or levels up once, that number rises to around 25~28.

Considering Rhys is healing most of the time, and would only attack a couple of times that's pretty good. Soren only doubles a couple more enemies.

And considering Rhys gains AS relatively quickly compared to enemies (lolashera staff + physics) he doubles a good amount of enemies.

So it's something like 8 chapters of healing (consider that these chapters are the hardest because we don't have any supports/durability, everybody like 2~3 rounds bar Titania) + superior offense for lategame vs existant offense for about 4 chapters + slightly superior offense for midgame

I don't really see how there is that big of a gap between Rhys and Soren letalone Ilyana beating Rhys.

[Florete]

EDIT 2: Looking at this...

What...? Sorry, Red Fox, but you're not making sense here. Looking at Oscar and Marcia...

Oscar has, Kieran aside, Ike, Tanith, and lolJanaff.

Not counting Kieran, Marcia has Gatrie (move difference), Tanith, and lolRolf.

If both Oscar and Marcia go A with another partner (Like MarciaxTanith A and IkexOscar A), Kieran can only get B with both, leaving C open. If either one goes with a different option for B (Perfectly likely, since Kieran's got lolWind affinity), Kieran has at least enough room for a B support. It's not the most likely scenario, but considering all the possibilities, it most definitely exists.

[soundecho]

Do note the fact that Rhys can get a Titania support. Mist AND Rhys both being in play at once is unlikely.

[-Cynthia-]

Even if Titania/Kieran are open, there's still the 3-4 Mov difference in the way of the bonuses actually coming into play.

[Shadow Mir]

Do note the fact that Rhys can get a Titania support. Mist AND Rhys both being in play at once is unlikely.

Even if Rhys can manage to get a Titania (or Kieran) support, the 3-4 move difference gets in the way of the bonuses actually coming into play.

the game auto levels Rhys 3 times

What...? Sorry, but I have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

[Sasori]

I know rolf sucks but should't he atleast be above lucia and bastian considering rofl can at least turn out good or average while these to will never be good.

[-Cynthia-]

I know rolf sucks but should't he atleast be above lucia and bastian considering rofl can at least turn out good or average while these to will never be good.

Rolf requires far too many resources to even reach promotion, let alone be comparable to Lucia or Bastian. His main problem is his class, being locked to Bows forever is the worst.

In other news, anyone oppose Shinon>Nasir?

[Nestling]

In other news, anyone oppose Shinon>Nasir?

Not as much as I oppose Brom>Gatrie.

I know I've brought this up before, but I was never able to discuss it O-o.

[-Cynthia-]

Not as much as I oppose Brom>Gatrie.

I know I've brought this up before, but I was never able to discuss it O-o.

Eh, I don't really think Gatrie's early chapters and small Atk lead make up for Brom's supports and being able to fix his Spd more easily. Although with the weight given to earlygame here, I suppose I could see Gatrie higher. Gatrie/Brom is rather similar to Rhys/Ilyana actually.

Edited July 13, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Swordsalmon]

Shinon>Nasir indeed. Nasir just joins too late and has too terrible of Movement to be very worthwhile.

[Lord Raven]

Popping in real quick to comment: I love how my SUPER TOP tier idea thing stuck. : D

I know rolf sucks but should't he atleast be above lucia and bastian considering rofl can at least turn out good or average while these to will never be good.

wtf are you talking about

bows suck

his ending averages are pretty average

for how much work? a lot.

then you deal with the fact that lucia's and bastian's starting stats are actually kinda usable IIRC. that's how that works out.

EDIT: I may come around more often. :3

Edited July 14, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[grandjackal]

Holy crap, he's back from the gra-...I won't go that far X3

Anyways, I don't think anyone said anything about it, but anyone think Muarim has a case against Mist? An argument bullet point to summarize my thoughts, but do feel free to shoot it down.

-Mist experiences times of being one shotted. Muarim doesn't have to deal with this shit ever. She is also not countering pre-promotion, and post pormotion isn't anything impressive either.

-Mist has an excellent support list, but unlike Muarim she's incredibly dependent on them to be anything but a healer (with a pony). Muarim having Lethe and Zihark to help him out isn't a bad thing either. Not as impressive as Mist's lists, but at least he's not dependent on them. He can easily go solo.

-Healing's not as called for in this game, and Muarim is proof why with how hard it is to kill him. Muarim has no problem just walking around with a vulnery if he's untransformed. Really, what else is he gonna do in that mode?

-I WOULD argue demi-band, but he's not needing it as bad as say Mordy, nor is he getting Lethe's post earlymap full transformation deal. So it's either he's taking somehting away from needy Mordy, and not putting it to as good of use as Lethe could. Transformation is Muarim's real negative, but considering how badly he destroys Mist offensively when he transforms?

-I suppose Mist could use a seal early to get that pony sooner AND build up sword rank easily and naturally for the magic swords later, but Muarim again doesn't take a seal from the team. Soren/Illin/Rhys would like it just as much.

Yeah, broad generalization, but I just wanna get more discussion going on here.

[Dat Nick]

Healing's not as called for in this game

which is exactly why Elincia needs to slip down below Bastian and Lucia already, especially since people have agreed to this

[Florete]

Anyways, I don't think anyone said anything about it, but anyone think Muarim has a case against Mist?

Hope you were expecting me on this one.

-Mist experiences times of being one shotted. Muarim doesn't have to deal with this shit ever. She is also not countering pre-promotion, and post pormotion isn't anything impressive either.

Wait, what is one shotting Mist? Also, I think "better durability" would suffice. It's like you're trying to separate one argument into two.

Oh, and by the time Muarim even shows, Mist is probably nearing promotion anyway.

-Mist has an excellent support list, but unlike Muarim she's incredibly dependent on them to be anything but a healer (with a pony). Muarim having Lethe and Zihark to help him out isn't a bad thing either. Not as impressive as Mist's lists, but at least he's not dependent on them. He can easily go solo.

I don't get this argument, and I've attacked it several times, with no counter back. Being "dependant" means nothing if it's guaranteed. In order for Mist to not get any supports, you'd have to assume 4 of the games best characters are not in play (including the best).

It's the Sothe w/Beastkiller all over again.

-Healing's not as called for in this game, and Muarim is proof why with how hard it is to kill him. Muarim has no problem just walking around with a vulnery if he's untransformed. Really, what else is he gonna do in that mode?

Healing is still useful, and if it isn't, seriously, someone listen to B2BD or whoever he is and lower Elincia.

Oh, and what is Muarim doing untransformed? Hmmmmm?

-I suppose Mist could use a seal early to get that pony sooner AND build up sword rank easily and naturally for the magic swords later, but Muarim again doesn't take a seal from the team. Soren/Illin/Rhys would like it just as much.

There are two Master Seals coming quite early, and it's unlikely we actually need 3 healers, since, as you said, healing is not as called for in this game.

Might I mention Mist has 7 chapters on Muarim?

[Dat Nick]

Wait, what is one shotting Mist? Also, I think "better durability" would suffice. It's like you're trying to separate one argument into two.

lagooz in C15, and definitley the hawks in 12

Dunno beyond that, just punching figures i saw while doing my FE9 tournament debate