FE9 Tier List

[-Cynthia-]

1 def and 5 avo is all Jill loses for the time she has until Haar comes. That's really not a huge deal.

Of course, Haar's boosts are only barely better, so it doesn't really matter either way.

True, though you also have to consider that Lethe won't get Jill's boosts ever either, which kind of sucks for her since her support list is fairly limited.

Edited June 12, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Dat Nick]

The boosts Lethe gets are, again, rather limited. It's not unplausable to ask both of them to suck it up and suffer in silence.

[-Cynthia-]

The boosts Lethe gets are, again, rather limited. It's not unplausable to ask both of them to suck it up and suffer in silence.

No but she only gets like 8 more Avo from an A Haar anyway, so arguably that boost is also pretty limited.

Edited June 12, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Dat Nick]

I never denied that Haar also gets very limited bonuses out of it.

[Vykan12]

You also didn't consider giving Geoffrey an Elincia support. In the previous thread you said Mist was high tier due to heal+horse, Elincia has heal+fly whch is even better.

Unlike Mist, Elincia cannot hang on the frontlines (27 hp/11 def is laughable), so she’s pretty much stuck to physic/mend & run. Even if the support occurs, it will hardly ever be in range. Regardless, if it happens, Geoff has a +1 atk lead, but axe Mt > lance Mt still circumvents that.

Haar's AS doubles Generals, Wyvern Lords, and some of the slower Halbs and some Tigers.

Tigers are fast enemies so he has to be doubling more than just that. In addition to what you mentioned, I have warriors up to lv 9, snipers up to lv 7 and sages up to lv 8. Reikken’s site said “3-12 promos” in chapter 27, so Haar is easily doubling more than half of all enemies unless there’s a huge surge of SMs/cats/ravens I forgot about. You also neglected to mentioned the BA, which cuts into Geoff’s doubling lead, and he has the option to use the BL as well, not to mention possible hammerne uses (what else do they have to repair?).

I'll admit I was over-estimating Haar's availability lead, I thought it was much more than 1 chapter. Geoff is probably better, especially when flying is only really doing anything in the laguz map (bypassing trees) and the one before Geoff joins.

[-Cynthia-]

Elincia only has to be within 3 spaces of Geoffrey, it's easy enough to wall her in especially since she has Canto.

Tigers are fast enemies so he has to be doubling more than just that. In addition to what you mentioned, I have warriors up to lv 9, snipers up to lv 7 and sages up to lv 8. Reikken’s site said “3-12 promos” in chapter 27, so Haar is easily doubling more than half of all enemies unless there’s a huge surge of SMs/cats/ravens I forgot about. You also neglected to mentioned the BA, which cuts into Geoff’s doubling lead, and he has the option to use the BL as well, not to mention possible hammerne uses (what else do they have to repair?).

Those enemies are quite low level for the final chapters, I actually assumed your level listed was at Endgame, since 6 levels in 3 chapters for Haar is...generous. Basically it boils down to Geoffrey having no doubling problems, Haar has significant doubling issues.

On the BA/BL points, he can use them, but then he loses Atk to Geoff by a lot, Brave Axe has 10 Mt, Forged Silver Lance has 20 Mt, Geoffrey's doing 20 more damage per attack, not to mention he can still double with 1-2 range or a Laguz Lance etc. Geoffrey pretty much wins offense any way you slice it.

[Tino]

Haar can easily be lvl 19-20 by endgame (seven chapters, a few of which feature large amounts of promoted enemies and/or laguz... yeah, easy enough), which gives him 26 str/20 spd. lvl 20 Geoffrey has 22-23 str/24 spd. So if both double Haar has the advantage, if neither double Haar has the advantage, and Geoffrey has the advantage otherwise.

Things both double:

Bishop: 15 spd

Wyvern Lord: 14-16 spd

General: 10-11 spd

Things neither double:

Swordmaster: 24-26 spd

Dragon: 21-22 spd

Cat: 21 spd

Things Geoffrey doubles that Haar doesn't:

Dragon: 20 spd

Cat: 20 spd

Hawk: 20 spd

Paladin: 19-20 spd

Sniper: 19 spd

Sage: 19 spd

Tiger: 18-20 spd

Warrior: 18 spd

Halberdier: 17 spd

Who said Haar didn't have doubling issues again?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

So let's see... Zihark > Stefan.

Earlier, Zihark was shown to be closer to Nephenee so either she rises or he and Stefan both drop. Which shall it be?

Lethe's rising and there's nothing currently countering that, currently moved her below Soren. I would expect some1 throwing Vantage on Nephenee since she has Wrath and that would allow for some serious enemy phase no?

Edited June 12, 2009 by Sirius

[grandjackal]

Soren gets the MAG to make up for it though and there are more flying units than there are Red Dragons.

Illyana is capable of using wind anyways, and Red Dragons are insanely tough enemies. Soren also pretty much only averages 2 mag better, and that's considering they're at equal levels. Not gonna happen, unless we babied the fuck out of Soren the past 3 chapters. 7 in 3 chapters is insane even for him. That better magic only really starts to have itself known past promotion and at like 20/7

Takes even longer for Ilyana to double then.

Know how much speed Soren's got after promotion? 2 more speed than her afterwards. He gets weighed down by basic wind, so he has 1 more speed with the lightest spellbook. Unless you can prove what 1 speed is doubling, I'd say her being able to use Thoron more safely is better than him needing to hold onto the light stuff to not be a bullet sponge. Soren is at best doubling lategame, and only with light weight tomes. He does outdamage her with them though, but at least she still has use against dragons. 50 damage geared at those pesky red dragons is nothing to scoff at at all.

Wait a minute. At best, Soren is only 2 points faster than Illyana at 20/10. He can't even use Elwind or else he matches her in speed when she has...well...anything equipped. By then, I'd rather have Thoron than Tornado...

I vaguely recall valid arguments against this. Hmm...

Illyana has Mordecai (who apparently has a hard time getting supports) and Zihark (who is at least a nearby option). Her affinity is light. a B B Mordy and Zihark is 3 defense, around 20 avoid (forgot how to calculate earth), and 1 Atk. Her HP and Defense end up better overall (not by much, but a durability lead is a durability lead). Illyana is at least able to avoid getting doubled.

Eh?

*points upward*

This was previously brought up and instantly shot down by the fact that Soren has an AS lead on her that makes it possible for him to double with the tomes he doesn't get weighed down (out damaging Ilyana) so much with that it makes this point moot. Also, because of his AS lead, if they're both not capable of doubling and both have to use the same magic, this point would only make a difference if using that magic will result in Soren getting doubled and Ilyana not seeing the same fate. No evidence of this being a possibility has been brought up.

Actually there IS a problem, as Soren has a 2 point lead at best, and if he uses Elwind he's apparently not doubling. That, and I'd HARDLY say 1 as is doubling anything she isn't even with basic wind. She is using a flat out stronger weapon because she can, and has the rank.

Another thing you're assuming is that they are at equal levels. This I can garuntee you isn't the case. Soren needs 7 levels in 3 chapters just to catch up to her. Let's compare.

Soren: level 4, 19.35 HP, .15 Str, 7.8 Mag, 9.65 Skill, 9.2 Speed (8 if holding even basic wind), 5.9 Luck, 2.45 Def, 8.35 Res

Illyana base Hp: 20, Str: 1, Mag: 8, Skill: 10, Speed: 9, Luck 6, Def: 3, Res: 10

As you see, she's an all around better package, if even by a bit. However, Soren has been a pain in hte ass to train up since level 1, and she has a better weapon to use (since neither are doubling).

As for their growths, his are indeed better, but not by so much he'll start whipping her immediately. Every speed lead he gets she makes up for with strength, he never gains a durability lead, her supports make it go even deeper, she gets to promotion first. He's only beating her lategame, when the 2 AS can be felt and now he has the strength. Even then she's doing her team justice, with that she makes Mordy even harder to kill, and gave Zihark a support to abuse his earth. She has better luck as well, so even basically she has an avoid lead. Soren can't get Ike, as he's got plenty of better options, and Stefan barely helps him.

By the way, the averages for the HP of the laguz are off. They all act like they have 100% growth, where they actually have like around 130-150%.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Kuja

[Zkirsche]

Lethe's rising and there's nothing currently countering that, currently moved her below Soren. I would expect some1 throwing Vantage on Nephenee since she has Wrath and that would allow for some serious enemy phase no?

That's fine, my point was that she's comparable to Lethe, not worse than Lethe.

I personally see lethe > Geoffrey for availability. Geoffrey has +5 for his 5 chapters when everyone's growths have kicked in. Lethe has more chapters of usefulness and is aroudn at a time when units are underlevelled and weak (Zihark, Jill, Marcia, Astrid and Makalov). Check out her Chapter 17.1 performance after 6 chapters of usefulness. I'll give Lethe 3 levels in those 6 chapters and a 'B' with Jill:

Level 6 Lethe, 'B' Jill: 38 HP, 27.5 Atk, 17 AS, 55.5 Avo, 17 Def, 12 Res

Level 4 Sniper with a steel bow: 32 HP, 22 Atk, 13 AS, 108 Hit, 12 Def, 8 Res

2* level 15 Fighter with a steel axe: 35-37 HP, 19-20 Atk, 9-10 AS, 73 Hit, 8-9 Def, 4 Res

Offensively, Lethe has a 50% chance of ORKOing the Sniper and a 13% chance of not ORKOing The fighters.

Defensively, Lethe gets 8RKO'ed by the Snipers at 54.40-56.29 real hit. She gets 13-19RKO'ed by the fighters (20-19 Atk) at 5.95-6.66 Real hit.

As you can see, Lethe performs well even on the 7th chapter after joining.

[grandjackal]

I'm pretty sure Geoff's gonna drop below or at least around Haar anyways.

By the way Vykan, Haar has 2 chapters, not 1. The bridge, than reaching Geoff's keep. Two of which he's pretty good at, and then Geoff sucks at the mountains.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I'm pretty sure Geoff's gonna drop below or at least around Haar anyways.

By the way Vykan, Haar has 2 chapters, not 1. The bridge, than reaching Geoff's keep. Two of which he's pretty good at, and then Geoff sucks at the mountains.

Just to nitpick, it actually is only 1 chapter. In his joining chapter, he won't do much so all he's got is C24 where Geoffrey is an NPC and he joins right after that. The mountain point is valid though.

[grandjackal]

Just to nitpick, it actually is only 1 chapter. In his joining chapter, he won't do much so all he's got is C24 where Geoffrey is an NPC and he joins right after that. The mountain point is valid though.

Geoff being an NPC does not help our team. But you have a point I suppose.

Another point is Endgame, where Haar has an easier time moving around because of all the shit that gets in the way. Hedges, the fountain, the ledges, the stairs...Haar's better strength helps bust down doors faster in the black knight chapter.

But otherwise, I think everything's already been said.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Geoff being an NPC does not help our team. But you have a point I suppose.

I didn't intend to say that Geoff being an NPC helped the team, just saying which chapter in particular Haar definitely has over Geoff.

I can see Geoff dropping, he seems to be overrated and I still think Stefan > Zihark has a chance but I can't debate that.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Sirius

[-Cynthia-]

Ok, Zihark vs. Nephenee:

Nephenee eventually wins offense since they both double everything and she has slightly more Atk, but Zihark wins at first because he has more Str and doubles more than she does, there's also Zihark's crit and Adept to consider. Nephenee has Wrath, but this is risky to rely upon earlygame because she's often 3HKOd and there''s no Vantage scroll yet. Nephenee has access to 1-2 range though, so maybe a slight win here. Nephenee also gains Atk from all her supports, Zihark only from Brom.

Durability wise, Neph has 2 Def and 3 Res over Zihark at base, while he has 8 more Avo, so Nephenee wins slightly. Later comparison: By the way, Brom wants Zihark over Nephenee because it's faster and gives better bonuses. He might want Boyd over Nephenee actually, but for now let's assume she gets his B

20/4 Nephenee(B Brom)

35 HP 18 Def 10 Res 59 Avo

20/5 Zihark( A Brom B Muarim)

37 HP 16 Def 8 Res 90 Avo

I would say Zihark wins for the period of time when he has full supports and Nephenee doesn't 2 HP and 31 Avo is a little better than 2 Def and 2 Res IMO.

Now when Nephenee's Callil support kicks in:

20/10 Nephenee (A Callil B Brom)

38 HP 20 Def 12 Res 75 avo

20/11 Zihark (A Brom B Muarim)

40 HP 18 Def 9 Res 100 Avo

So it's 2 HP and 25 Avo against 2 Def and 3 Res, which is pretty even.

Zihark gives better support bonuses to his partners though, since Earth>Wind, something to consider.

I think I would go for Nephenee>Zihark, mainly because locked to lances> locked to swords.

By the way, I'm pretty sure the statistical leads Geoffrey has over Haar are pretty convincing IMO, makes up for the 1 whole chapter Haar's there while Geoff isn't. And while Haar does have higher Mov on the mountain stage he can barely use it for fear of ballista (and if he takes the Full Gard he keeps Jill/Marcia/Tanith from going up which is almost as bad), so the advantage is not that great. There are ballistae in the map where Geoff is an NPC as well, so on the maps where he arguably beats Geoffrey he has severe durability issues, they 2HKO him and the Killer Ballisate OHKO with a crit.

Edited June 12, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[grandjackal]

I didn't intend to say that Geoff being an NPC helped the team, just saying which chapter in particular Haar definitely has over Geoff.

I can see Geoff dropping, he seems to be overrated and I still think Stefan > Zihark has a chance but I can't debate that.

Oh. Well then, pardon me.

As for Zihark, how about this argument? Zihark's not exactly slouching about during his time, and someone with killer edge use AND adept is always welcome in one of the most annoying chapters in the game, the Crow Pirates.

By the way, looked at those endgame stats, and it seems at 20/10, Soren isn't doubling all that much anyways.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Kuja

[Dr. Tarrasque]

As for Zihark, how about this argument? Zihark's not exactly slouching about during his time, and someone with killer edge use AND adept is always welcome in one of the most annoying chapters in the game, the Crow Pirates.

By the way, looked at those endgame stats, and it seems at 20/10, Soren isn't doubling all that much anyways.

@Bold: Proof? He's not doing so great in the Raven chapter, that much I know but don't know how he's doing in the other ones.

To be fair, while Zihark has Adept, Stefan has Astra which has a 13% chance of activation, which is the same as Zihark's Adept at join time. While the activation rate for Adept will obviously turn in Zihark's favor, Astra's activation isn't too far off.

@Italic: Yes let's base comparisons solely on endgame.

[grandjackal]

@Bold: Proof? He's not doing so great in the Raven chapter, that much I know but don't know how he's doing in the other ones.

Killer edge use, Adept, not getting doubled, accuracy (would be devestating to miss these bastards). No one else is really having an easy time with these bastards.

Oh, and Laguzslayer. 'Tis a sword that Ike does not have the sole rights to.

To be fair, while Zihark has Adept, Stefan has Astra which has a 13% chance of activation, which is the same as Zihark's Adept at join time. While the activation rate for Adept will obviously turn in Zihark's favor, Astra's activation isn't too far off.

Astra has to be a skill where it is a negative. It's better NOT to have Astra. It only does 2.5 damage, and in exchange it breaks your weapon to shit. Can't even let him use Vague Katti, he'd annihilate that thing faster than anyone else. You might as well remove Astra.

@Italic: Yes let's base comparisons solely on endgame.

The rest of it is Illyana has actual supports, a better weapon type, and durability to speak of.

[Zkirsche]

Screw it, I'll try Lethe > Nephenee.

First, I'd like to point out that endgame weighs less than mid-game for the aforementioned reason (There are underlevelled units mid-game such as Jill, Marcia, Zihark, Nephenee, Astrid, Makalov and Brom. However, there's no such underlevelled units late game.)

Next, I'd like to remind everyone that Lethe wins support for having 2 support partners who want her: Muarim and Jill. Boyd loves the attack and def from Mist, so Mist may not even want Jill. Even if she did, Mist would get 'A' Mordy since water x water = pwnage. Haar only gives Jill 8 more avo but very late on in the game. She'd much rather have the quick, more beneficial option from Lethe. As for Muarim, he has either Lethe or Largo.... easy choice. So Lethe gets 'A' Jill, 'B' Muarim. Nephenee has fail supports - Devdan and Calill = fail. Brom prefers the earth support from Zihark and the Atk from Boyd. Boyd, as i mentioend before, loves def.

Lethe also has more movement than Nephenee, 9 mov is important when you look at the movement ranges of all these units: Mordecai, Muarim, Titania, Kieran, Astrid, Makalov, Oscar, Tanith, Marcia and Jill. What do all these units have in common? 9 mov (After promotion, that is). Staying on the front lines- and in the firing lines of the enemy - is a diffcult task for nephenee and her 9 mov.

I showed how Lethe > Nephenee for chapters 11-18, that's 11 chapters. Lethe also has use in Chapter 10 by rescuing units to help achieve the bexp requirements. So that's +12 for lethe. How many chapters are left after chapter 18? 11. So even if Lethe was +0 for all those chapters, She'd still have a lead over nephenee.

Lethe > Nephenee.

Astra has to be a skill where it is a negative. It's better NOT to have Astra. It only does 2.5 damage, and in exchange it breaks your weapon to shit. Can't even let him use Vague Katti, he'd annihilate that thing faster than anyone else. You might as well remove Astra.

I can't remember where Adept comes in again, but you could give it to Stefan. His base speed makes him an arguably better candidate for it than anyone else.

Edited June 12, 2009 by kirsche

[grandjackal]

I can't remember where Adept comes in again, but you could give it to Stefan. His base speed makes him an arguably better candidate for it than anyone else.

That's the problem though, he has to take it from others who could use it too, while Zihark just naturally has it. I think Adept comes a bit late anyways. Either way, it's an advantage Zihark has while Stefan actually comes prepackaged with a detriment.

[Zkirsche]

That's the problem though, he has to take it from others who could use it too, while Zihark just naturally has it. I think Adept comes a bit late anyways. Either way, it's an advantage Zihark has while Stefan actually comes prepackaged with a detriment.

But that can easily be removed so it's no biggie.

As for zihark vs nephenee...

Where to start? Zihark joins the same chapter you get Nephenee, 3 levels higher. The only other thing to add would be that Nephenee joins BEFORE the chapter, and so might get some of that Bonus Experience. But I'm going to do this assuming that no Bonus Experience is used on Nephenee, under the similar assumption that Bonus Experience is like stat boosting items, it can be used on anyone, including Zihark, if you save a little. So, level 7 Nephenee vs level 10 Zihark. Neither have supports yet.

Nephenee level 7

HP: 22

Str: 8

Skl: 10

Spd: 11

Def: 9

Res: 3

Lck: 6

Zihark level 10

HP: 25

Str: 10

Skl: 13

Spd: 15

Def: 7

Res: 0

Lck: 6

Okay, so let's look at their weapons. Zihark joins with a Killing Edge and Nephenee joins with nothing.

Zihark - Killing Edge

Damage: 8 + 9 = 17

Accuracy: 13x2 + 6 + 75 = 107

Crit: 6 + 30 = 36

Evasion: 15x2 + 6 = 36

Adept: 13%

Nephenee - Nothing

Damage: 0

Accuracy: 0

Crit: 0

jk lol, we'll give Nephenee an Iron Lance since she can hold it. Giving her a Javelin makes her lose 3 speed, dropping her down to 8, which is laughably low for a unit based on speed. So, she can HOLD ON TO a Javelin, I guess, but using it will basically only be so she doesn't take a counterattack on that round.

Nephenee - Iron Lance

Damage: 8 + 7 = 15

Accuracy: 10x2 + 6 + 80 = 106

Crit: 5

Evasion: 11x2 + 6 = 28

Zihark effectively wins everything in offense. He does 2 more damage, over 30% better crit, Adept, and even a point of accuracy. Oh yeah, and 4 more Attack Speed.

Durability is different. Nephenee has 2 Defense and 3 Res on Zihark's 3 HP and 8% Evasion. It's up in the air, really, but since it's early and evasion isn't so reliable, I'll give Nephenee a slight durability lead. Zihark's still destroying her offensively. Granted, that's with a Killing Edge. Zihark has strength enough to use a Steel Sword effectively, only losing two speed with it, bringing him down to the pathetically low speed of 13 (jk, that's still pretty high - higher than Nephenee's fo sho) Steel Sword Zihark loses 1 Attack, two Attack Speed and 30 Crit. He's still beating Nephenee in attack by one, AS by two, and Crit by 1, meaning every offensive parameter.

FAST FORWARD

Chapter 16, both level 18. Supports have kicked in. Nephenee's options are Brom, Devdan and Calill, the latter two of which haven't appeared yet. That means Nephenee gets Brom. OR DOES SHE??!?!!? Brom has choices, contrary to what Nephenee wants. He can go with Boyd (a good unit, better than Nephenee), Zihark (also better than Nephenee ) and Nephenee (who sux lol jk)

Brom and Boyd are like sex in a bucket. 3 Attack, 1 Defense and some Accuracy (which would be a useless bonus if Boyd didn't need accuracy) so this support is super awesome! That means Brom only has one more option, which he shares with either Zihark or Nephenee. Who does he want more?

Well, whoever he picks, he'll have a C with either of them at chapter 16. The difference is that he'll be able to crank out a B with Zihark after the chapter, for the super long, 4 part chapter 17. He also GETS this C earlier. Point for Zihark. Now let's look at the actual bonuses.

Brom x Nephenee © - 2% Hit, 2% Evasion

Brom x Zihark © - 5% Evasion

It's pretty similar, but Evasion > Hit and even if they were equally good, 5 > 4. Brom wants Zihark more than Nephenee. But, for kicks, let's see what their B Supports are like, since Brom isn't going to get an A with either of them.

Brom x Nephenee (B) - 1 Attack, 1 Defense, 5% Hit, 5% Evasion

Brom x Zihark (B) - 1 Attack, 1 Defense, 10% Evasion

Again, very similar, but Evasion still > Hit, especially since all three of the units are sufficiently accurate already. So, Brom wants Zihark over Nephenee because 1. It's faster and 2. It's better. That means Nephenee, on chapter 16, will have no supports. Zihark will have a C with Brom.

Nephenee level 18

HP: 28.1

Str: 12.4

Skl: 16

Spd: 17

Def: 12.8

Res: 5.8

Lck: 8.8

Iron/Steel Lance

Attack: 19.4/22.4

Accuracy: 120.8/110.8

Crit: 8

Evasion: 42.8/40.8

AS: 17/16

Zihark level 18

HP: 29.4

Str: 13.6

Skl: 17

Spd: 19.4

Def: 9.4

Res: 1.6

Lck: 9.2

Steel Sword - C Brom

Attack: 21.6

Accuracy: 118.2

Crit: 8

Adept: 17

Evasion: 53

AS: 19.4

Okayz. So, things are pretty different depending on if Nephenee uses Steel or Iron. She only loses 1 AS from Steel, so let's say she uses that most of the time, since she'll still be doubling usually.

She beats Zihark in damage by 1. A chapter later, though, when Zihark pulls that B with Brom, he gets an extra attack. So that diminishes. Accuracy, Zihark has that by a little less than 10%. Crit is the same, but since Zihark has a 17% chance to attack twice, let's say he wins that. Attack Speed, Zihark wins by over 3. (2 if Nephenee goes to Iron Lance, but if she does that, Zihark beats her in damage by over 2.) So, no matter what she equips, Zihark is still superior to her offensively.

Defensively, she's got 3.4 Defense and 4.2 Res on his 1.3 HP and 12.2 Evasion. Around this time, dodging starts to become decently reliable. Next chapter, this evasion gap will increase by 5% thanks to Zihark's B with Brom. I dunno, it's tricky who's more durable, but Zihark definitely has offense.

Nephenee starts with equal Atk (weapon rank aside), better durability, and less speed. Her speed does not remain a problem, because low level + good growth + hey Knight Ward means she gets to doubling everything territory pretty quick. Her Atk surpasses Zihark's (lower level + promo boost), although it's only by about a point to be fair. So Zihark badly needs to make up the gap in durability. Without Muarim he has no chance of doing so. Even with I'm not sure he does. Neph gets impressive supported avoid herself and wins concrete for when things do sneak in.

Nephenee has no supports. Zihark's earth affinity and brom and Muarim combination makes his avo incredibly superier.

Zihark has more crit with killing edge and higher skill.

-Wrath is better than Adept, because not only is 50% two to four times as good as Adept's rate, but it stacks with crit (Killer Lance) and isn't subject to biorhythm.

To get to wrath, Nephenee has to have low HP, which is dangerous. Besides, Adept stacks with crit as well and Zihark's hit rates are always high, so biorythm doesn't matter. Besides, In order to crit, you have to hit, so Wrath is affected by biorythm too.

-Nephenee can counter at two range.

Yeah, badly. Besides, ranged enemies don't take up a majority.

Edited June 12, 2009 by kirsche

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Illyana is capable of using wind anyways, and Red Dragons are insanely tough enemies. Soren also pretty much only averages 2 mag better, and that's considering they're at equal levels. Not gonna happen, unless we babied the fuck out of Soren the past 3 chapters. 7 in 3 chapters is insane even for him. That better magic only really starts to have itself known past promotion and at like 20/7

Red Dragons are very few and it's not like you absolutely NEED a high rank in Thunder anyway and doesn't promotion mean automatic D in thunder for Soren? Thoron isn't available that often IIRC.

IIRC, BEXP is available on the prep screen in the chapter Ilyana joins so I don't see them being at the same levels too unlikely either.

At equal levels I see Soren having more SPD and a bit more MAG than Ilyana. I also see Soren doubling Knights with Elwind while Ilyana cannot do this with Elthunder. Oh and there's also Adept on Soren.

Not to mention that he's also had a few levels with the bands that boost SPD and MAG growth.

Know how much speed Soren's got after promotion? 2 more speed than her afterwards. He gets weighed down by basic wind, so he has 1 more speed with the lightest spellbook. Unless you can prove what 1 speed is doubling, I'd say her being able to use Thoron more safely is better than him needing to hold onto the light stuff to not be a bullet sponge. Soren is at best doubling lategame, and only with light weight tomes. He does outdamage her with them though, but at least she still has use against dragons. 50 damage geared at those pesky red dragons is nothing to scoff at at all.

It's 2 at that point with a good chance of that changing to 3 and that's without applying bands. Now if you applied them...

Also, Soren being weighed down by basic Wind is as much bullshit as you putting Wendy above Fa on your FE6 tier list. Upon promotion, he's got 2.95 STR so not even Elwind is dropping his AS and Elthunder would be used if Elwind isn't doubling which would result in Soren winning in damage by a bit. Oh and there's also Adept as previously stated. Soren has more used against flying units which are far more common.

Wait a minute. At best, Soren is only 2 points faster than Illyana at 20/10. He can't even use Elwind or else he matches her in speed when she has...well...anything equipped. By then, I'd rather have Thoron than Tornado...

21.2 vs 17.9 =/= 2 SPD difference. The Elwind comment is bullshit and Thoron is late plus Ilyana has to compensate for the time Soren has been winning.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Sirius

[grandjackal]

I had forgotten he had Adept...and hadn't realized just how damn heavy thunder spells are...x.x

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I had forgotten he had Adept...and hadn't realized just how damn heavy thunder spells are...x.x

Pretty much why I ignored that post earlier, as a way to be merciful >_>.

Question, when does Vantage come in? If it doesn't come in too late, Nephenee pretty much wins.

EDIT: Hmm... it comes in chapter 14.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Sirius

[Zkirsche]

Question, when does Vantage come in? If it doesn't come in too late, Nephenee pretty much wins.

EDIT: Hmm... it comes in chapter 14.

It's not like Zihark can't use Vantage well, either.