FE9 Tier List

[grandjackal]

As for the Sonic Sword, rememeber Mist likely needs those Arms Scrolls too, not just the weapon itself.

Tanith: Hey, I can use it immediately!

Yeesh, Mist needs so many things...I'm not even gonna argue anymore about her and Muarim, as arguments in Tellius always seem to come down to "Yeah he/she sucks, but if we give him/her all the resources we can cram down their throat, even if they don't necessarily deserve it..."

[Dat Nick]

Erm, I never said Mist couldn't get a forge

Lots of other people were.

As for the Sonic Sword, rememeber Mist likely needs those Arms Scrolls too, not just the weapon itself.

No, she needs to go through two steel swords. Like that's asking a whole lot.

Tanith: Hey, I can use it immediately!

Bruly [brom], Garry [Gatrie] and Tauromo [Taur] also can use the brave lance immediately, they still don't get any more a monopoly on it than Neph does or Oscar does or Ti does or whatever, just because they need it to function, and the exact same logic applies to Mist, only she has even LESS competition for the sonic sword. It's a double standard any way you look at it

"Yeah he/she sucks, but if we give him/her all the resources we can cram down their throat, even if they don't necessarily deserve it..."

And yet it's totally fine to assume these exact same resources for other characters [Lucia, Armors, etc].

Right, that's totally not biased against Mist, not at all. Every other character in the game is entitled to favoritism like brave weapons and whatnot...unless their name is Mist. 100% reasonable.

Furthermore, we're swimming in gold already. 4k really isn't going to help.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Norton Sez What?

[dondon151]

No, she needs to go through two steel swords. Like that's asking a whole lot.

That is asking a lot when Mist gains more EXP from healing than from combat and her enemy phase is worse than everyone else's. 2 Steel Swords is 40 rounds of generally player phase only combat when she could be healing instead, or 4+ whole chapters of attacking once per turn.

[Florete]

That is asking a lot when Mist gains more EXP from healing than from combat and her enemy phase is worse than everyone else's. 2 Steel Swords is 40 rounds of generally player phase only combat when she could be healing instead, or 4+ whole chapters of attacking once per turn.

If we assume Mist promotes at chapter 17, she has ~4 maps before the Sonic Sword comes. That should be enough to get to C, or at least very close, and then she only needs 1 Arms Scroll to use the Sonic Sword right when it's available. Not that bad if you ask me. That's 20 shots of a Steel Sword, which can be as few as 10 rounds of combat.

[Dat Nick]

That is asking a lot when Mist gains more EXP from healing than from combat and her enemy phase is worse than everyone else's. 2 Steel Swords is 40 rounds of generally player phase only combat when she could be healing instead, or 4+ whole chapters of attacking once per turn.

Actually, let me correct myself.

90 WEXP from D to B. 45 steel uses. 23 enemies. And no, her enemy phase isn't really that bad with, as Cynthia just conceded to, a forge.

[Progenitus]

I find that the sonic sword is a lot of trouble just for, like, 25 uses of a weapon. It's more of a novelty than a strong argument for Mist. I'm much more impressed with her mount + decent durability for a magic user because of supports.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

@Sirius: Are you saying there's no reasonable case for Mist > Makalov? If we are making tier separations the way smash was suggesting, then that would be what the list is currently claiming.

I disagree with that, there's been several instances where characters with 1-2 tier difference have been shown that it shouldn't exist and with Smash's way of looking at the tiers, it just makes things complicated. I think there should be less emphasis on the tiers in which the characters are placed with instances such as Ike and Boyd and more emphasis on the position of the characters, argue them below or above the person right next to them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it should look like this at the moment:

Top
Titania


High
Oscar
Jill
Kieran
Boyd
Reyson
Ike
Tanith
Marcia
Astrid
Makalov


Upper Mid
Volke
Mist
Muarim
Nephenee
Zihark
Mordecai
Stefan
Lethe
Soren
Rhys
Ilyana

Lower Mid
Geoffrey
Calill
Brom
Devdan
Gatrie
Haar
Tormod
Ranulf
Tauroneo
Sothe

Low
Largo
Mia
Janaff
Ulki
Shinon
Nasir
Ena
Elincia
Lucia
Bastian

Bottom/Phail 

Rolf

What do you suggest?

I find the whole Sonic Sword for Mist thing ridiculous... but can't really find an argument against it >_>. Off to sleep

Edited July 16, 2009 by Sirius

[-Cynthia-]

I agree with the above tierage.

[Colonel M]

It works fine.

The thing was what kept fueling me into pissed mode was when Swordsalmon and that X-named dude or w/e kept mentioning Mist's good offense which, while it isn't terrible, really isn't something to heavily emphasize on. Decent durability, mount, and healing is what it is. I think with her under Volke it's a bit fair since we can give some resources to Volke and he's still alright. For example: since Mist is using a little bit and she can get a forge, for maybe a chapter or two that Volke isn't fielded he can obtain BEXP as well. I mean, it would boil down to the Thieving Utility, which is very useful in this game since Volke also has existant Str unlike Sothe at first and "okay" on durability.

For Mist to go under Muarim would be a bit more of a slippery slope. We could assume that Muarim would get the Demi Band for the comparison since we're attempting to give them resources, but in the end Mist simply has a bit more of utility over Muarim anyway.

I thought the Sonic / Runesword argument was slightly ridiculous myself. Better off just tossing her a forged Steel (or two supposedly) and let her run off. To be fair at least she can defend herself a bit better than Soren / Ilyana who are usually 2RKOed often. Also keep in mind I'm not totally used to the favoritism things and such. For the most part in SD it's about pure statistics (well, almost) and in FE6, 7, and 8 there isn't skills nor forges. That's what just complicates me in this game.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Colonel M

[Progenitus]

I disagree with that, there's been several instances where characters with 1-2 tier difference have been shown that it shouldn't exist and with Smash's way of looking at the tiers, it just makes things complicated. I think there should be less emphasis on the tiers in which the characters are placed with instances such as Ike and Boyd and more emphasis on the position of the characters, argue them below or above the person right next to them.

...are you crazy? Trying to get characters in the exact order can be a nightmare, especially when you are arguing extremely subjective and arbitrary values (healing, thieving, move, etc.)

It's FAR more important to get the character in the right tier, which is why tiers gaps should signify a great jump in performance.

Or think about this. If the tier gaps AREN'T supposed to signify a great jump in performance (and hence the units within the same tier are somewhat comparable with each other), then why don't we just have everyone in one gigantic tier? No, see, obviously it doesn't work like that.

If units with 1-2 tier differences between each other have been shown that they shouldn't exist, then one of the characters is obviously off. There's nothing more to it.

Edited July 16, 2009 by smash fanatic

[Dat Nick]

I find that the sonic sword is a lot of trouble just for, like, 25 uses of a weapon. It's more of a novelty than a strong argument for Mist. I'm much more impressed with her mount + decent durability for a magic user because of supports.

First, it's 35.

Second, Smash, you aren't getting why I'm reigniting this shit in the first place. I'm going against it because Generals being entitled to brave lances when they have loads of competition for it when Mist not getting a Sonic Sword when she has basically just Tanith contend for it is a massive double standard.

I thought the Sonic / Runesword argument was slightly ridiculous myself.

Again, if the three stooges can get their brave lance, why the hell can't Mist get a sonic sword? She has ONE person to contend with it: Tanith.

[Progenitus]

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/sword.htm

Says 25.

Second, Smash, you aren't getting why I'm reigniting this shit in the first place. I'm going against it because Generals being entitled to brave lances when they have loads of competition for it when Mist not getting a Sonic Sword when she has basically just Tanith contend for it is a massive double standard.

That depends. I'm assuming the generals were being compared to other units, so if the generals were getting favoritism but the other unit was also getting favoritism, then I see no problem. If the other unit wasn't receiving any favoritism, then yes, that would be a double standard.

Edited July 16, 2009 by smash fanatic

[Colonel M]

Again, if the three stooges can get their brave lance, why the hell can't Mist get a sonic sword? She has ONE person to contend with it: Tanith.

Any Sword user would appreciate 1-2 range. Mist does have good Mag (and so does Tanith), though that doesn't mean she's the only unit that can use the weapon.

[Dat Nick]

Any Sword user would appreciate 1-2 range. Mist does have good Mag (and so does Tanith), though that doesn't mean she's the only unit that can use the weapon.

Mustard, you're a smart kid, you've played FEDS, and you know that now you're just arguing against me for the sake of arguing [Probably because you've seen your blunder in giving Tauro braves against Largo all the time]. I don't see anybody caring about the Levin sword for 1-2 range, do you? Also, enemies actually have res in FE9, so that makes tossing the sonic sword on anybody BUT somebody who has balls for magic is a fucking waste of this, especially since there's only ONE sonic sword in FE9, unlike in FEDS which has several levin swords. Come on, I shouldn't have had to explain that one to you.

Hell, let's consult Vykan's magical page of Enemy stats to see how bad of a waste it really is!

20/1 Zihark, Sonic Sword: 14 ATK Res hit, 20% Adept [Can magic swords crit at range? if so i guess it helps him]

3x Wyvern Rider lv 14-15 (steel lance)

31 hp, 24 atk, 9 AS, 95 hit, 21 avo, 15 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

4x Soldier lv 16-18 (steel lance)

34 hp, 21 atk, 9 AS, 98 hit, 22 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

1x Soldier lv 18 (javelin)

33 hp, 16 atk, 10 AS, 89 hit, 24 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

1x Halberdier lv 1 (short spear)

35 hp, 20 atk, 10 AS, 97 hit, 23 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

1x Archer lv 19 (steel bow)

29 hp, 20 atk, 14 AS, 107 hit, 33 avo, 11 def, 7 res, 8 crit, 5 cev

1x Fighter lv 20 (steel axe, hand axe, vulnerary)

40 hp, 27 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 29 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

1x Warrior lv 1 (steel axe, iron bow)

40 hp, 26 atk, 10 AS, 89 hit, 24 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

1x Sage lv 1 (blizzard, wind)

27 hp, 20 atk, 6 AS, 97 hit, 14 avo, 8 def, 13 res, 5 crit, 2 cev

2x Sage lv 1 (bolting, 1 thunder, 1 shade [d])

28 hp, 24 atk, 4 AS, 89 hit, 10 avo, 8 def, 14 res, 10 crit, 2 cev

2x Bishop lv 1 (light, mend)

28 hp, 16 atk, 9 AS, 102 hit, 24 avo, 5 def, 18 res, 4 crit, 6 cev

1x Knight lv 16 (knight killer [d])

33 hp, 19 atk (26 eff), 0 AS, 91 hit, 3 avo, 17 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 3 cev

1x General lv 1 (short spear, vulnerary)

32 hp, 22 atk, 6 AS, 93 hit, 15 avo, 17 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

1x General lv 1 (laguz lance)

32 hp, 26 atk (38 eff), 2 AS, 98 hit, 7 avo, 18 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

2x Sword Knight lv 19 (steel sword, vulnerary)

34 hp, 21 atk, 14 AS, 98 hit, 33 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Kayachey lv 8 (tornado [d], elixir)

32 hp, 24 atk, 15 AS, 137 hit, 47 avo, 10 def, 16 res, 7 crit, 17 cev

Turn 4 Reinforcements:

3x Raven lv 6 (beak, 1 vulnerary, 2 coin [1d])

33 hp, 19 atk, 17 AS, 119 hit, 35 avo, 12 def, 9 res, 7 crit, 1 cev

Turn 6 Reinforcements:

4x Raven lv 6-8 (beak, 2 coin [1d])

34 hp, 20 atk, 18 AS, 120 hit, 38 avo, 12 def, 9 res, 7 crit, 2 cev

Turn 7 Reinforcements:

2x Lance Knight lv 16-17 (steel lance)

31 hp, 22 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 28 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Turn 8 Reinforcements:

1x Axe Knight lv 18 (steel axe, hand axe)

32 hp, 23 atk, 10 AS, 87 hit, 25 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

1x Lance Knight lv 20 (steel lance, javelin)

33 hp, 24 atk, 15 AS, 91 hit, 31 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 6 cev

1x Paladin lv 1 (steel lance, iron bow, vulnerary)

31 hp, 23 atk, 13 AS, 92 hit, 30 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 6 cev

lmfao, that's a two round on everything. He's not so desperate for 1-2 range that he's going to make his offense suck THAT badly. so ya, Mist and Tanith are catfighting for the sonic sword, it's a waste on anybody else.

I know Tanith has good mag btw, why the hell else would I keep bringing her up as Mist's only competition?

And on most of these things a 2RKO isn't even a 2RKO: Zihark has to have ALL FOUR HITS HIT to kill the son of a bitch he's attacking without a crit on most of these things, which sends uses down the shitter fast, and they're already very scarce. Oh, and never mind that he tinks mages, which is half of the reason he's using the fucking sword in the first place.

before i forget, that's a 3RKO on the soldiers, no matter if he fights the WTD or not.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Norton Sez What?

[Colonel M]

I just double checked with Ike. Yeah nevermind Tanith and Mist can have the Sonic Sword.

At least I got a compliment... kind of.

They needed more units that could've used the Levin Sword though and maybe existing Mag growths with Res to balance it out. Or if the Levin Sword worked like FE3's Thunder Sword - flat out 10 damage per hit.

I guess one last comment that could be made is since I'm assuming it does Wind damage it could be used to damage flying units such as Wyvern Knights.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Colonel M

[Dat Nick]

I guess one last comment that could be made is since I'm assuming it does Wind damage it could be used to damage flying units such as Wyvern Knights.

...i'm like, 95% sure that doesn't work.

[Colonel M]

...i'm like, 95% sure that doesn't work.

From Serenes:

"Does Wind-based magical damage, effective against flying units".

^_^

[Progenitus]

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/sword.htm

Does Wind-based magical damage, effective against flying units

EDIT: wtf man

Edited July 16, 2009 by smash fanatic

[dondon151]

90 WEXP from D to B. 45 steel uses. 23 enemies.

You mean 23 rounds of combat. Since when does Mist ORKO consistently with a Steel Sword forge?

And no, her enemy phase isn't really that bad with, as Cynthia just conceded to, a forge.

It's quite a bit worse than everyone else's, which is what matters.

[Dat Nick]

Since when does Mist ORKO consistently with a Steel Sword forge?

when i said "23 enemies" i mean that's how many enemies she needed to attack.

It's quite a bit worse than everyone else's, which is what matters.

mist with forged steel: 23 ATK [before supports. 25 ATK at bare minimum]

Oscar with steel: 27 atk

I think you mean "It's comparable to the second best unit in the game".

Edited July 16, 2009 by Norton Sez What?

[dondon151]

mist with forged steel: 23 ATK [before supports. 25 ATK at bare minimum]

Oscar with steel: 27 atk

I think you mean "It's comparable to the second best unit in the game".

This is 20/4 Oscar compared to 20/2 Mist with 13 MT (+5) Steel Sword. I don't think I need to point out that this is Mist with lots of resources (EXP, money) compared to Oscar with minimal resources, and she still loses.

I'm going to assume that this is like chapter 19 or something. Oscar with a Steel Lance forge ORKOs mounted knights and fighters whereas Mist with a Steel Sword forge misses ORKOs on like everything but the archers.

By the way, this comparison doesn't show me anything. 20/2 Mia with the same Steel Sword forge has 27 atk before supports. Now look! Mist loses offense to a unit 2 tiers below her! She must suck!

[Vykan12]

Enough about Mist's offence

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I forget, when do you get the 50k Gold and just how much money is available before then?

[Florete]

You get the 50k after chapter 19, I think. I don't remember exactly how much is available before then, but I know there's a lot.

[Dat Nick]

This is 20/4 Oscar compared to 20/2 Mist with 13 MT (+5) Steel Sword. I don't think I need to point out that this is Mist with lots of resources (EXP, money) compared to Oscar with minimal resources, and she still loses.

incorrect, it's both of them at 20/1

mist's staves doesn't sap EXP from the rest of the group, and she's not using up any more funds than Oscar did to get to 20/1 [probably less, in fact]

Furthermore, 90% of units in this game need EXP and 100% need gold to function so I have no idea why the hell you're calling Mist out for it anyway.

compared to Oscar with minimal resources, and she still loses.

no shit she does. I'm not arguing Mist>Oscar, you know. Oscar was a comparison to debunk "bad enemy phase".

I'm going to assume that this is like chapter 19 or something.

18

By the way, this comparison doesn't show me anything. 20/2 Mia with the same Steel Sword forge has 27 atk before supports. Now look! Mist loses offense to a unit 2 tiers below her! She must suck!

training Mia is also actually a problem due to her constant suck and massive consumption of EXP that the rest of the team could have used.

Btw, remember that Mist is promoting along with most of the rest of our units, meaning the easy mode button just got pushed, meaning that forges become much less favoritism than they used to be. And this whole argument is pretending she doesn't have a solid chance at an arms scroll, anyway.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Norton Sez What?