FE4 THREAD

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

Just move north, never to come back. Seattle can't be a worse joke than Phoenix.

Part of that was because a salary cap wasn't introduced. It also killed the Whalers and the old school Jets, both teams having a fairly good history and fanbase, for the profit of Carolina and Phoenix. I'd be a fool to agree that Denver's a bad market, though, but the move leaves a very sour taste when you consider what the franchise has been through. It was getting great too, though the Sundin trade was balls.

They better fix the divisions too.

I love the belief that the location of the place really matters. And yet teams like Tampa and Florida have more people attending than New Jersey, Boston, New York (Rangers and Islanders), Edmonton, and obviously Winnipeg.

Holding a grudge because they took 'your team' is no reason to hide your eyes from successes and hold on to flaws (or perceived flaws) like a madman. That's why I tend to roll my eyes at a lot of the 'TEAMS SHOULD ONLY EXIST CHICAGO UPWARD' people.

Not to mention if the NHL followed the logic people use now about which teams should move, no original six/original expansion team would exist. In case you've forgotten, Chicago averaged less than 10,000 pre-Towes. So did Pittsburgh pre-Crosby. And Boston just a few years ago.

Winnipeg and Quebec weren't even filling their tiny arenas. It'll start happening again once the 'honeymoon' for the team is over, unless they win the Cup soon. Like 2 years soon. Give them a Florida-like playoff drought? Oooooh boy.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ar-Wing Pilot

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

HOCKEY VIABILITY THREAD

Only 8D

[Pride]

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

Pride

You're awesome

[Ice Sage]

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

lol this is great Pride xD

[Icon of Sin]

I love the belief that the location of the place really matters. And yet teams like Tampa and Florida have more people attending than New Jersey, Boston, New York (Rangers and Islanders), Edmonton, and obviously Winnipeg.

Holding a grudge because they took 'your team' is no reason to hide your eyes from successes and hold on to flaws (or perceived flaws) like a madman. That's why I tend to roll my eyes at a lot of the 'TEAMS SHOULD ONLY EXIST CHICAGO UPWARD' people.

Not to mention if the NHL followed the logic people use now about which teams should move, no original six team would exist. In case you've forgotten, Chicago averaged less than 10,000 pre-Towes. So did Pittsburgh pre-Crosby. And Boston just a few years ago.

Winnipeg and Quebec weren't even filling their tiny arenas. It'll start happening again once the 'honeymoon' for the team is over, unless the team wins the Cup soon.

It's January. There's snowbirds from up north. Hockey is cheap. Fairly easy to do the math.

It's perfectly fine to relocate teams in historic hockey areas southward during the Nineties but it's fucking impossible to relocate southern teams a decade later when the Canadian dollar finally rose up to American level and beyond while interest is massively growing in many northern markets. How does that even make sense? Do you at least admit that Gary Bettman does not want to admit defeat with his southern plan that didn't quite met his expectations?

Chicago had its issues coming from one of the worst sports team owners ever, not allowing games to be shown on TV. When the owner's son took his place, the crowd booed his father's name when it was mentionned. Pittsburgh had one of the shittiest arenas until recently and typically had bad teams until Mario Lemieux did something about it. I'm not sure about Boston, but I figure it's a combination of glory days far behind and generally good teams in NBA, NFL and MLB in a city that isn't that big. It would be fun to have tickets for all four leagues but I don't think many can afford that.

There's plenty of factors in there. Of course, I'm not entirely sure Quebec is going to fill out its arena if the tickets and such cost just as much as Montreal.

[Icon of Sin]

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

"Phoenix Coyotes moving to Quebec" expressions right there.

go see the kings or the ducks once in a while man

Edited January 30, 2013 by Doga Blockovich

[Icon of Sin]

sharks eat ducks

suck it pilot

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

It's January. There's snowbirds from up north. Hockey is cheap. Fairly easy to do the math.

It's perfectly fine to relocate teams in historic hockey areas southward during the Nineties but it's fucking impossible to relocate southern teams a decade later when the Canadian dollar finally rose up to American level and beyond while interest is massively growing in many northern markets. How does that even make sense?

Yep, Canadian dollar has risen. Thus the Jets came back.

And since when is it 'massively growing in northern markets'? If anything the interest in the sport has shifted south recently, not north.

And look, I'm not anti-Southern relocation,

I'm anti-relocation in general.

I wouldn't have wanted Winnipeg or Quebec to move back when. I don't want Phoenix or anyone else to move now. And I especially don't like the feeling of 'Oh, we deserve them because we live in a colder location.'

I'm saying that relocation should only be used as a last-ditch measure only to be used when the only other option is folding. For the Coyotes, it's not.

Do you at least admit that Gary Bettman does not want to admit defeat with his southern plan that didn't quite met his expectations?

Chicago had its issues coming from one of the worst sports team owners ever, not allowing games to be shown on TV. When the owner's son took his place, the crowd booed his father's name when it was mentionned. Pittsburgh had one of the shittiest arenas until recently and typically had bad teams until Mario Lemieux did something about it. I'm not sure about Boston, but I figure it's a combination of glory days far behind and generally good teams in NBA, NFL and MLB in a city that isn't that big. It would be fun to have tickets for all four leagues but I don't think many can afford that.

There's plenty of factors in there. Of course, I'm not entirely sure Quebec is going to fill out its arena if the tickets and such cost just as much as Montreal.

It's not "his" plan. It never was his more than anyone else's. If anything, it was every single owner's plan. Yes, even people like the ones in Montreal and Toronto and Chicago and wherever else you want to say. The NHL wants them there. Bettman is only the mouthpiece.

They don't want to admit defeat, and they shouldn't. The sport has grown, in athletic ability, in interest, in money making. Maybe it's not as dramatic as some would like to believe, but it is working. Taking teams away would only undo that interest.

Sure, there are factors like bad owners that come into play. Frankly that's what has happened with a lot of the expansion teams. Pittsburgh has nothing to complain about since even when Phoenix was playing at American West Arena they nearly filled their building (it was a Winnipeg about sized one, though, thus them getting the newer one) when it was a dump the level of Nassau Colosseum, and even when they moved to Glendale (a good 1 1/2 away from the majority of the city) and were the worst team in the league for years, they never were as bad attendance-wise as Pittsburgh. And Arizona has had the Cardinals who went to the Super Bowl in 2009, the Suns with Steve Nash, and the Diamondbacks who were consistently a strong team. How is that not competition? Sure, they may not be as strong as the Patriots, Celtics, and Red Sox, but shouldn't their status as an Original Six team be considered instead of a team that never made it out of the first round until this past year and has only had about 15% of the time to establish themselves?

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ar-Wing Pilot

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

sharks eat ducks

suck it pilot

Oh, those good Southern teams, those.

[Icon of Sin]

Yep, Canadian dollar has risen. Thus the Jets came back.

And since when is it 'massively growing in northern markets'? If anything the interest in the sport has shifted south recently, not north.

And look, I'm not anti-Southern relocation,

I'm anti-relocation in general.

I wouldn't have wanted Winnipeg or Quebec to move back when. I don't want Phoenix or anyone else to move now. And I especially don't like the feeling of 'Oh, we deserve them because we live in a colder location.'

I'm saying that relocation should only be used as a last-ditch measure only to be used when the only other option is folding. For the Coyotes, it's not.

It's not "his" plan. It never was his more than anyone else's. If anything, it was every single owner's plan. Yes, even people like the ones in Montreal and Toronto and Chicago and wherever else you want to say. The NHL wants them there. Bettman is only the mouthpiece.

They don't want to admit defeat, and they shouldn't. The sport has grown, in athletic ability, in interest, in money making. Maybe it's not as dramatic as some would like to believe, but it is working. Taking teams away would only undo that interest.

Sure, there are factors like bad owners that come into play. Frankly that's what has happened with a lot of the expansion teams. Pittsburgh has nothing to complain about since even when Phoenix was playing at American West Arena they nearly filled their building (it was a Winnipeg about sized one, though, thus them getting the newer one) when it was a dump the level of Nassau Colosseum, and even when they moved to Glendale (a good 1 1/2 away from the majority of the city) and were the worst team in the league for years, they never were as bad attendance-wise as Pittsburgh. And Arizona has had the Cardinals who went to the Super Bowl in 2009, the Suns with Steve Nash, and the Diamondbacks who were consistently a strong team. How is that not competition? Sure, they may not be as strong as the Patriots, Celtics, and Red Sox, but shouldn't their status as an Original Six team be considered instead of a team that never made it out of the first round until this past year and has only had about 15% of the time to establish themselves?

I'm looking at top ten team attendance and the only oddity I see is Tampa, likely triggered by northerners going south for winter. How is that shifting interest south when a team like Dallas is under average?

It's been under the league's responsability for years, it has over 3000 people less in attendance on average than the closest team, and the owner still didn't finish up his transaction after all that's been said and done? I don't remember the Thrashers agonizing this badly.

Are you certain it's this unanimous?

We're talking about the bad owner of an Original Six who alienated the fanbase however.

As for Pittsburgh and Boston, I should probably go see a few more sources about those, though I do remember they both had a few bad years within the last 15 years or so that likely took a part of the fanbase away. I mean, this happened.

Oh, those good Southern teams, those.

The HP pavillion is almost always sold out or close to, but it is fairly small.

Not so much about Anaheim, even in their Cup run.

Besides San Jose is in the middle of Silicon Valley, which I figure attracts a lot of people from other regions to work for whatever computer companies around.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Doga Blockovich

[Ar-Wing Pilot]

I'm looking at top ten team attendance and the only oddity I see is Tampa, likely triggered by northerners going south for winter. How is that shifting interest south when a team like Dallas is under average?

It's been under the league's responsability for years, it has over 3000 people less in attendance on average than the closest team, and the owner still didn't finish up his transaction after all that's been said and done? I don't remember the Thrashers agonizing this badly.

Are you certain it's this unanimous?

We're talking about the bad owner of an Original Six who alienated the fanbase however.

As for Pittsburgh and Boston, I should probably go see a few more sources about those, though I do remember they both had a few bad years within the last 15 years or so that likely took a part of the fanbase away. I mean, this happened.

Interest in general has grown. Look at the attendance numbers overall. But if you look at purely the numbers, as you'd expect the ratio of southern to northern people is larger.

Besides, the 'oh it's just snowbirds' is not really a fair comment. You could say that for any kind of increase.

It's also had about as many things as could go wrong, go wrong. Like Goldwater.

If it wasn't at least very close, there wouldn't have been any southern teams.

Sure, not as bad, but it's still a factor.

Neither had the 10-year playoff drought of Florida, yes? And yet both were significantly worse. Pittsburgh doesn't even have anyone but the Steelers to really compete with. They were even as bad/worse than any southern team with crazy ticket giveaways.

The HP pavillion is almost always sold out or close to, but it is fairly small.

Not so much about Anaheim, even in their Cup run.

Besides San Jose is in the middle of Silicon Valley, which I figure attracts a lot of people from other regions to work for whatever computer companies around.

Wait... What? Yes it was. Anaheim was 95% capacity average on the year of the run, and filled entirely over the course of the next season. They just have a small arena.

And they're the only (decent) sports team around, it helps a lot.

[Acacia Sgt]

Apparently Yoshitsugu has Kyushu and Shikoku mixed up in his storyline... it's quite amusing using him. It's funny when he jumps, despite floating at all times... heh...

[Icon of Sin]

Interest in general has grown. Look at the attendance numbers overall. But if you look at purely the numbers, as you'd expect the ratio of southern to northern people is larger.

Besides, the 'oh it's just snowbirds' is not really a fair comment. You could say that for any kind of increase.

It's also had about as many things as could go wrong, go wrong. Like Goldwater.

If it wasn't at least very close, there wouldn't have been any southern teams.

Sure, not as bad, but it's still a factor.

Neither had the 10-year playoff drought of Florida, yes? And yet both were significantly worse. Pittsburgh doesn't even have anyone but the Steelers to really compete with. They were even as bad/worse than any southern team with crazy ticket giveaways.

Wait... What? Yes it was. Anaheim was 95% capacity average on the year of the run, and filled entirely over the course of the next season. They just have a small arena.

And they're the only (decent) sports team around, it helps a lot.

I'm aware some teams like Nashville are getting more people in, but it's not like Montreal can get a bigger arena for more people to come in.

I doubt the attendance is this high in fall or even spring unless they go far in the playoffs. Funnily enough, I recall something about a team in Florida who didn't want to accept fans from northern teams coming at their games to give more seats to fans of their home team. I forget if it was last year or two years back, but I know I saw that.

Remind me about Goldwater.

I know this kind of thing involves something about 75% for, if not more, to pass, but I'd be curious to see which teams would go against those measures. However, I do know a team that goes against the majority tends to be viewed badly upon, even if it's Toronto.

I do recall the Penguins having huge financial issues rivaling Phoenix, but at least Super Mario didn't take as long to try to help the team. How many years has it been that Phoenix is under the league's responsability, losing more money than most other teams?

Would you happen to have numbers?

Do you include San Francisco and Oakland teams with them? They're reasonably close.

[Marthur]

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

...Must...resist........foldering...

[Ein]

...Must...resist........foldering...

Can you?

[Marthur]

I think so

[Ein]

That's good.

[Raven]

At least the time warp wasn't three months this time.

That would be pretty fucking bad.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

...Must...resist........foldering...

Do it. You know you want to.

[Zak Something]

So aside from you guys tempting Marthur, what'd I miss?

[Freohr Datia]

Nothing really =o

Unless you missed the posts in this topic that got erased after the Forest got revived

So as I looked at this page I realized dio and pilot can almost never come in contact without talking about hockey

and at that moment in my minds eye I saw it

then

I made it real

Awwww cute~

Pilot must look so sad because he has a baby head =<

IT'S OKAY PILOT I BELIEVE YOU

[shadowofchaos]

My son is now apparently Inigo Monotoya.

[Zak Something]

Nothing really =o

Unless you missed the posts in this topic that got erased after the Forest got revived

Not missing stuff is good.

My son is now apparently Inigo Monotoya.

Huh?

[shadowofchaos]

Huh?

Azure has been localized to Inigo.

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

[6:37:33 AM] shadowofchaos725 (Rey): This is not going to happen.

[6:37:39 AM] Seph1212: too late

[6:37:55 AM] Seph1212: a man with 6 fingers will kill you

[6:38:02 AM] Seph1212: and then Inigo will make it his quest

[6:38:05 AM] shadowofchaos725 (Rey): XDDDDDDDDDD

[6:38:05 AM] Seph1212: to avenge you

[6:38:08 AM] shadowofchaos725 (Rey): XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Well... this turned into Princess Bride.

Edited January 30, 2013 by shadowofchaos