The Apology

[Superbus]

I think two people need wake-up calls at this point:

Fox: I was in favour of a two week furlough and a choke chain for Ed because of the way he was flaming members who didn't "get it" and needed to be purged, or some shit. However, I personally can no longer fight convincingly on his behalf because his attitude towards and treatment of the regular memberbase is 100% unacceptable. He has stated that making members that cannot contribute in quantifiably notable ways - to his standards, of course - should be made to want to leave (like they are, I assume, at the more "pure" Ashtray. How is that place doing now, anyway?). He is also on record as stating that making Josh, in this case, "get it" was paramount, and if a few members became collateral damage, so be it. I'm not paraphrasing. Now, I'm sure that if he was let back on, he would be on his best behaviour for awhile, until the Next Major Offence occured, and he felt the need to go scorched earth again (always justified with something along the lines of "I'm right, and you know it"), lather, rinse, repeat.

I do not believe he was banned justly this time. But considering his deplorable history with this place's common members, I cannot justify fighting too hard on his behalf. And for anyone that thinks I say that statement with glee, just think of the fun conversation I can expect to come home to tonight.

Josh: with that said, for one, if you would have followed the advice Ed and I had given prior, you would not have lost three months worth of data. Furthermore, if I recall, his advice was instrumental to you putting your resulting g safeguards. Yes, you did the resulting legwork, but to say he gave no help at all is disingenuous.

More fun:

Tibs: by your logic, I should have been banned from FESS because my argument with TF led to his leaving. Your zest for seeing three good members banned is worrysome.

Lyle: the FE fandom has been pretty tightly knit for awhile; for a long time, what you did at other FE sites did matter. When other sites had security issues or big-time member problems, I or Eaichu helped out. If someone did something really bad at one site (like really bad), the others banned that person. That was ruined when the notoriously fickle Exxeh let Captamzai onto FEP's staff fespite the fact he roleplay raped a female member in our IRC chat), but the point remains that past accomplishments do typically count for something. That's why I pushed for Popo and Charlie and LG to come onto this staff.

Finally, let me say that typing this all on an iPhone keypad is something I never want to do ever again.

[Fox]

Wrong. Wrong. And last but definitely not least, WRONG. I did NOT run to him! I said something along the lines of "Oh god, you'll never believe what happened" - I never asked him for advice on getting the place back up and running. I did ask what he thought about lighttpd though, not that you have a fucking clue as to what that is. Secondly, I did not ask him for advice on the backups, until I had already set them up. Then I asked him his opinion on how often I should have them run, and he told me EXACTLY what I had already set it up for! He did us a service ONCE, and guess what, I should have taken Chris' advice and NEVER LET HIM NEAR SF. The one thing Chris warned me about with Blacken, is that once you let him contribute something, he will NEVER let you forget it, which makes it hard to ban him when he fucks things up. This should never be the case, as I recall something with FESS' history in which one of the founding Administrators was banned, despite all his contributions. Contributions =/= exclusion from the rules. End of story.

Oh and I forgot about Blueen, thanks for reminding me.

It's funny, I'm looking over logs from past IM conversations you've had with him, and they're telling me... you're full of shit? I'd post them, but I've witnessed already the kind of hilarity that ensues after showing off logs of you behaving foolishly.

My original point stands. None of those bans should have taken place. In allowing one to remain, you invalidate your entire apology.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Okay okay. Sorry. My bad. I guess I did generalize and act like a jerk there. Sorry. Not all FESSers are bad of course. In fact, probably most of them are not. It's just that most of them don't like me for whatever reason, so I consider that most of them are bad. SRRY.

HMMM, WHAT REASON COULD ANYONE POSSIBLY HAVE FOR NOT LIKING YOU?

1. In that topic I was trying to prevent exactly what wound up happening. The FESSers ended up pushing out all the usual users with their own elitism and fanboyism with eachother. They were the true elitists. I wanted to make sure that the FESSers would be treated as SFers, meaning that they had a clean slate as soon as they came in. They were neither better, nor worse than us. They were newbies on Serenes. Not people from FESS. Then they took over, established their own morals, and killed all the fun that we ever had.

2. DURRRRRRP *Drools.*

[Agro]

And yeah, there's me, Masu, Princess Kilvas, Kiryn, TLS(LOL), and a few others I could come up with if I wasn't so lazy.

You weren't "pushed out"; you left on your own accord because you felt that "things weren't the same anymore". Perhaps you meant "everyone else hit puberty".

[_____]

And yeah, there's me, Masu

And yet here you are.

Princess Kilvas, Kiryn

Have they ever expressed a hatred for joining FESS members?

(You may MSN with Kilvas all the time, and such, but the only time when she seemed to have problems with any FESSers was when they *gasp* critiqued her art. No offense intended to her, but she couldn't take criticism. That's her fault.)

TLS(LOL)

No, seriously, "lol" is right.

[Tino]

Okay okay. Sorry. My bad. I guess I did generalize and act like a jerk there. Sorry. Not all FESSers are bad of course. In fact, probably most of them are not. It's just that most of them don't like me for whatever reason, so I consider that most of them are bad. SRRY.

That's still generalizing them as FESSers instead of actual SF members (a mistake I, admittedly, used to make, too).

[Defeatist Elitist]

And yeah, there's me, Masu, Princess Kilvas, Kiryn, TLS(LOL), and a few others I could come up with if I wasn't so lazy.

Hey, is this going to be like that time you claimed I made Hika leave when not only had he not left, but me and him were getting along great?

[Mufasa]

Lyle: the FE fandom has been pretty tightly knit for awhile; for a long time, what you did at other FE sites did matter. When other sites had security issues or big-time member problems, I or Eaichu helped out. If someone did something really bad at one site (like really bad), the others banned that person. That was ruined when the notoriously fickle Exxeh let Captamzai onto FEP's staff fespite the fact he roleplay raped a female member in our IRC chat), but the point remains that past accomplishments do typically count for something. That's why I pushed for Popo and Charlie and LG to come onto this staff.

I guess this is just an area where we disagree in philosophy Bus. I don't think that what you do on one site should affect your lifestyle on another. That promotes Elitism more than anything.

Let's say for example I was to join another FE forum. Should I, a newbie on that site, be treated like a sack of shit just because of my actions here? After my first post: "Hi! I'm new to your forums! I hope to have fun here." immediately be assaulted with: "GTFO YOU WASTE OF OXYGEN!"

All new members should be treated the same. They forge their path on what they do from that moment on.

At least that's what I believe.

[NoNameAtAll]

Lyle: the FE fandom has been pretty tightly knit for awhile; for a long time, what you did at other FE sites did matter.

And like TheEnd said: Black Knight and Der Komissar came intending to troll. Hell, Black Knight ADMITTED he came to troll.

I don't care if he was a good Root Admin back then. I do care that he is a troll now, here, on this forum.

How he was back then =/= how he is now.

[Agro]

Let's say for example I was to join another FE forum. Should I, a newbie on that site, be treated like a sack of shit just because of my actions here? After my first post: "Hi! I'm new to your forums! I hope to have fun here." immediately be assaulted with: "GTFO YOU WASTE OF OXYGEN!"

If a rapist moved in to your neighborhood, what would you do?

And like TheEnd said: Black Knight and Der Komissar came intending to troll. Hell, Black Knight ADMITTED he came to troll.

I don't care if he was a good Root Admin back then. I do care that he is a troll now, here, on this forum.

How he was back then =/= how he is now.

As much as you may want to deny it, they did contribute to some noteworthy discussion (which have all been wiped due to the rollback).

Edited July 9, 2009 by Angelix

[Mufasa]

If a rapist moved in to your neighborhood, what would you do?

It's hard to rape someone over the internet.

Apples and oranges.

[Agro]

It's hard to rape someone over the internet.

Apples and oranges.

It's a metaphor, you dumbfuck.

[Superbus]

And like TheEnd said: Black Knight and Der Komissar came intending to troll. Hell, Black Knight ADMITTED he came to troll.

I don't care if he was a good Root Admin back then. I do care that he is a troll now, here, on this forum.

How he was back then =/= how he is now.

Oh bullshit. You're judging good members on less than a week's worth of sample size, compared to a body of work that is solid, especially in the cases of Fox and SS.

Again: what gives you, specifically, the right to judge those three?

[TheEnd]

Tibs: by your logic, I should have been banned from FESS because my argument with TF led to his leaving. Your zest for seeing three good members banned is worrysome.

What, Bus? Really, what?

Really... you don't post here. You don't keep tabs on their behaviour on Serenes. Your opinion is clearly based only on the way they act outside here, or in FESS. That's why you can call Steve and Black Knight good members. (I'll leave Fox aside here because really, he was tamer than the others and didn't deserve more than a demotion really, I guess.)

Tell me, Bus. Have your standards changed so much that a "good member" is one that joins a community to insult, flame, troll and mock the members there, contributing minimally? For months? Supposedly to prove a point that the rules weren't being enforced, while they become some of the greatest issues themselves?

I've said it before; I had a difficult time accepting the fact that the atrocious God-hating troll I saw here was the same Sword Saint I respected at FESS. He was a good member there, for as long as I had known him (and that means early FESS2); however, here, he's a blister.

Black Knight even admitted what he was doing, so no need to talk about him.

You're comparing things that are completely different, Bus, and missing the mark by far. It's almost embarassing.

[Mufasa]

It's a metaphor, you dumbfuck.

What's with the language?

[lolDeath]

Drama again in a topic about them being unbanned. Coincidence? I think so.

But it's pretty fucking ironic.

[Art_Dragon]

What, Bus? Really, what?

Really... you don't post here. You don't keep tabs on their behaviour on Serenes. Your opinion is clearly based only on the way they act outside here, or in FESS. That's why you can call Steve and Black Knight good members. (I'll leave Fox aside here because really, he was tamer than the others and didn't deserve more than a demotion really, I guess.)

Tell me, Bus. Have your standards changed so much that a "good member" is one that joins a community to insult, flame, troll and mock the members there, contributing minimally? For months? Supposedly to prove a point that the rules weren't being enforced, while they become some of the greatest issues themselves?

I've said it before; I had a difficult time accepting the fact that the atrocious God-hating troll I saw here was the same Sword Saint I respected at FESS. He was a good member there, for as long as I had known him (and that means early FESS2); however, here, he's a blister.

Black Knight even admitted what he was doing, so no need to talk about him.

You're comparing things that are completely different, Bus, and missing the mark by far. It's almost embarassing.

I may not be a mod, but it may be a good idea to let this go. What benefit is there in talking about old fess/serenes divisions? You and kyle are stirring the pot again.

[NoNameAtAll]

Oh bullshit. You're judging good members on less than a week's worth of sample size, compared to a body of work that is solid, especially in the cases of Fox and SS.

Again: what gives you, specifically, the right to judge those three?

For the last time, I'm not judging Fox. I'm judging Black Knight and Der Komissar.

They AREN'T like how they were on FESS, based on what I've heard. And hence, why unban them when they were trolling? Their past achievements are fine. That's great.

But that doesn't give them the right to troll for MONTHS (As TheEnd stated). It also doesn't mean they can be unbanned because they were so great back then.

...Of course, TheEnd pretty much stated it better than myself.

Also Art_Dragon, you misunderstand. He's talking about differences in attitude since then.

"Sword Saint" was great on FESS. But here, as Der Komissar, he's been nothing but a troll.

Had to correct it. I had no idea about THAT at least. >_>.

Edited July 9, 2009 by NoNameAtAll

[Agro]

For the last time, I'm not judging Fox. I'm judging Black Knight and Der Komissar.

They AREN'T like how they were on FESS, based on what I've heard. And hence, why unban them when they were trolling? Their past achievements are fine. That's great.

But that doesn't give them the right to troll for MONTHS (As TheEnd stated). It also doesn't mean they can be unbanned because they were so great back then.

...Of course, TheEnd pretty much stated it better than myself.

If you know that they're trolls then why are you letting them upset you?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

As much as you may want to deny it, they did contribute to some noteworthy discussion (which have all been wiped due to the rollback).

They did but this does not excuse their trolling. Contribution should not result in immunity to bans.

If you know that they're trolls then why are you letting them upset you?

If we know they're trolls then why are they still here when there's a rule against them?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Sirius

[TheEnd]

I may not be a mod, but it may be a good idea to let this go. What benefit is there in talking about old fess/serenes divisions? You and kyle are stirring the pot again.

It would be really kind of you if you cared to read my post before commenting on it.

[Agro]

I find it amusing that no one was baned for trolling.

[TheEnd]

I find it amusing that no one was baned for trolling.

Destiny Hero and Jarly.

[Fia]

Destiny Hero and Jarly.

Also Marth Koopa.

(+1 post for me.)

[NoNameAtAll]

Also Marth Koopa.

(+1 post for me.)

Good Fia.

Yes, also Marth Koopa. TWICE.