Testing support data(?)

[Narga_Rocks]

So, I think the game is a little bit odd. (I know, I'm just realizing that now?) Anyway, I'm even more certain about Rafiel at least getting nothing for his galdr and blessing. Thus Leanne and Reyson should get nothing for blessing, Leanne might get nothing for galdr and transformed reyson almost certainly will get nothing. Ena and Nasir will likely get nothing for boon, as well. Chances are the other dragon skills give nothing as well. The odd thing is that it appears so far that some points can be accumulated while a unit is green. Shoves still matter, and adjacents between two green units seem to matter. I'm guessing healing/sacrificing would matter as well, but not rescuing. Anyway, here's the tests:

First, more 1-8 Rafiel stuff:

First up, Micaiah x Rafiel, an FF 00

5 adjacents, 1 hold, 2 vigors, failure. (32 + 17 + 0 = 49)

Next, Nailah x Rafiel, another FF 00

6 adjacents, 1 shove, 3 vigors, success. (33 + 17 + 0 = 50) (so vigor isn't a negative for 00)

Third, Nolan x Rafiel, a 00 02

11 adjacents, 1 shove, 5 vigors, 5 blessings, failure. (34 + 15 + 0 + 0 = 49)

Fourth, Muarim x Rafiel, a 00 02

10 adjacents, 1 hold, 2 vigors, success. (35 + 15 + 0 = 49) (so vigor isn't a negative for 02)

Finally, Volug x Rafiel, a 00 02

10 adjacents, 1 hold, 5 vigors, 1 blessing, success. (35 + 15 + 0 + 0 = 50) (so blessing isn't a negative for 1-8)

Now, that test was only about checking for negatives, and some might think it unimportant since a negative for heron skills seems unlikely, but tests are done for thoroughness, not based on what I think I know.

Now for some LEA and Sothe testing in 1-7. From before, the LEA get no chapter bonus, whether with each other or with the blue units.

First up, Sothe x Tormod, an FF 01

1 shove, 2 adjacents while Tormod was green, 12 adjacents while Tormod was blue, success. (48 points while both are blue and something while green)

Four tests with the same green action:

1 shove, 3 adjacents at the start of player phase, only one of which was also adjacent at the start of other phase.

Blue action:

9 adjacents, failure.

10 adjacents, failure.

11 adjacents, failure.

12 adjacents, success. (So, 48 points from blue action, 2 points from green. Blue and Green can gain shove points but not adjacent points)

Next up, Vika x Tormod, an FF 01

2 adjacents while green, 12 adjacents while blue, success. (48 points while blue and something while green)

Three tests with the same green action:

1 adjacent at the start of player phase only, were not adjacent while green at the start of any other phase. (rescued by volug to prevent)

Blue action:

11 adjacents, 1 shove, failure.

12 adjacents, 1 shove, success.

11 adjacents, 1 shove, failure.

So two green units being adjacent at the start of player phase appears to mean nothing.

Last, Muarim x Tormod, an FF 00

2 adjacents while green, 7 adjacents and 2 holds wile blue, success. (49 points while blue and something while green)

Two tests with the same green action:

1 adjacent at the start of player phase and other phase during the same turn number.

Blue action:

9 adjacents, success. (5 + 45 = 50)

8 adjacents, 1 shove, failure. (5 + 43 = 48)

So it appears that a pair of green units can accumulate adjacent points at the beginning of other phase just like blue units can accumulate adjacent points at the start of player phase. A blue unit adjacent to a green unit, however, will not accumulate adjacent points. Which also leads to the hypothesis that a blue unit rescuing a green unit would get no points for it, since points are earned for holding the same way as for adjacency. However, a blue unit can earn points for shoving a green unit. This leads to the interesting possibility that Nolan shoving a red Aran could potentially earn points as well. I may have to test that at some point, but not likely any time soon. Anyway, this brings hope to the idea that Jill and Zihark could earn chapter points with each other for 1-5, but it doesn't show anything one way or the other. Also, since they are green for the entire chapter it is possible that they would not get to keep any earned support points since someone once said that Ena loses any strike points gained during 4-1. Though since shoving gains points I wonder if Volug could shove Zihark and keep the 2 points. Still, this all leads to the conclusion that sticking any blue unit adjacent to a green unit in 1-5 is quite pointless, as it gains nothing.

Anyway, since Lyre and Lethe stay yellow for all of 3-1 this tells me nothing about whether they can keep any adjacent points they accumulate, or if they even can accumulate those points at all, nor does it say if they can keep shove points with any blue units in that chapter. Also, this says nothing about whether two different groups of blue units can gain adjacent points, since at least they are both blue and have the same phase start. There is still hope for the CRKs gaining points with Elincia's crew in 2-E for adjacency or holding.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[VincentASM]

Is the Ena from 4-1 different from the one you recruit? I seem to recall her Level is different, but I'm not sure about her stats.

[Narga_Rocks]

Is the Ena from 4-1 different from the one you recruit? I seem to recall her Level is different, but I'm not sure about her stats.

I wouldn't know. If there are two Ena's in the code and one is in 4-1 and the other is in 4-E then it would explain the points not carrying over. I can't hack so I wouldn't know. Still, I'll eventually be testing some of these things in other chapters so I'm assuming I'll be able to find out about the others regardless of Ena. I'm guessing that if shoving Ena is possible then shove points won't carry if she is a "different" Ena. She only weighs 11 before transformation so it's a matter of whether or not there are open spots on opposite sides of her, though I guess I could pick her up and drop her at a shoveable spot. Still, that's another 4 chapter test since I wouldn't know until 4-E-1 if it gained and kept support points. Guess I could try anyway. I think my turn count this playthrough will not be particularly good.

[Jaybee]

Her level is 25 in 4-1. I've never checked her stats, though. Stupid 1-3 on HM...

[Aether7]

Her starting level in 4-E is 22 so she looses 3 levels?! I guess her standing around doing nothing took its toll on her.

Now why would they use a different Ena? I wonder if it has something to do with keeping her from transforming.

[Narga_Rocks]

Her starting level in 4-E is 22 so she looses 3 levels?! I guess her standing around doing nothing took its toll on her.

Now why would they use a different Ena? I wonder if it has something to do with keeping her from transforming.

But she does transform if you wait long enough. I've always found it funny that Ike asks her why she doesn't transform when she in fact does. There's a druid (or something, it uses dark) that appears near the top and if it gets close enough to her she'll transform if she has 30.

[Narga_Rocks]

(looked at 4 different greens, chose this one. I'll take suggestions for different greens if the colour bothers people. It's a little bright and I'd choose something darker, but I decided the other greens were too much darker.)

So, more testing. Wanted to make sure I didn't miscount adjacents between Tormod and Sothe in 1-7, so I loaded the battle save and did this:

From before

Green action:

1 shove, 3 adjacents at the start of player phase, only one of which was also adjacent at the start of other phase.

Blue action this time:

11 adjacents, 1 shove, failure. (Basically, if I'd miscounted and my 1 shove 12 adjacents from before was actually 13 blue adjacents, then 11 adjacents 1 shove would actually be 12 blue adjacents and 1 shove and thus 50 points. But it failed since it's only 2 + 44 + 2 = 48)

Then it occurred to me that while I did test if the rescue/take/drop commands themselves built support points between the held unit and the carrying unit (they don't, what gets points is beginning a player phase while holding a unit) I never actually tested if the take command builds points with the unit that it takes the held unit from. (if that's unclear, I'm saying if Aran is carrying Laura, for example, and Meg uses "take" to grab Laura from Aran, would Meg x Aran get points for it?)

Aran x Meg, an FF 02.

11 adjacents, 1 shove, and Meg "took" Laura from Aran twice and Aran "took" Laura from Meg (separate turns) twice, failure. (34 + 15 + 0 = 49)

So that ruins a theory I had about why Tanith and Sigrun grew so fast. I know they are an FF 00, but to build a level per chapter it still takes a fair amount, but somehow I did it anyway. This just goes back to why I wonder if part 4 boosts the points more. Or if HM has an increased point system, since my testing is on NM and my anecdotes from part 4 were on HM. Guess I should load HM and get to 1-4, I just don't really feel like it until I've finished testing on NM, but I might anyway.

Then back to 1-7 to confirm some things and make sure that a blue unit carrying a green unit gets no points for it.

Volug x Vika, a 00 02.

Green action:

4 holds, 1 adjacent

Blue action:

16 adjacents, 1 shove, failure. (0 + 49 = 49)

16 adjacents, 2 shoves, success. (0 + 50 = 50)

So holds get nothing between blue and green.

Vika x Tormod, an FF 01.

Green action:

1 adjacent. (to be specific, I actually had Vika held by Volug, then dropped her next to Tormod, to make sure that player phase is irrelevant for adjacent points between two green units)

Blue action:

11 adjacents, failure.

11 adjacents, 1 shove, success.

So for green units their player phase location is irrelevant.

Muarim x Tormod, an FF 00:

Green action:

1 adjacent, (2 extra that were player phase only. Muarim moved next to Tormod on other phase, some blue unit shoved Tormod away so that other phase did not start with Tormod next to Muarim)

Blue action:

8 adjacents, failure. (the times I shoved Tormod away meant no points for the pair on those turns)

9 adjacents, success.

Also, I recruited Tormod while Muarim and Vika were next to him, so they didn't get any points for their first player phase because when player phase came on the screen they were still green.

So, now that I know a little about how green units build points, time to apply it to 1-5 and see if Tauroneo/Jill/Zihark get a chapter bonus with each other.

First up, Jill x Zihark, a 00 01.

1-5:

3 adjacents. (to be more specific, they also ended turn 5 together, but since there is no other phase on turn 6, they get no points for it. Were adjacent for the start of other phase on turns 2, 4, 5. Basically, there are 4 possible turns for them to get points, 2, 3, 4, and 5. On turn 1 they don't start adjacent and there is no turn 6 for other)

1-6:

1-6-1:

nothing

1-6-2:

6 adjacents, success. So I'll use Tauroneo to determine precisely where their points come from. Yeah, I could have tested with these two to figure it out, but I was doing it almost all at once anyway, really.

Jill x Tauroneo, another 00 01.

1-5:

4 adjacents. (yep, they started turns 2, 3, 4, and 5 next to each other. They got the most points possible for a pair of green units in 1-5.)

1-6:

1-6-1:

1 adjacent.

1-6-2:

4 adjacents, success.

3 adjacents, failure.

So, this doesn't actually say anything either, since if they didn't get a chapter bonus in 1-5 but got adjacent points, it's 16 + 20 + 16 > 50, if they got a chapter bonus but no adjacent points, then it's 16 points anyway for 1-5, and 36 more makes > 50. So Zihark x Tauroneo should solve the issue.

Zihark x Tauroneo, also 00 01.

1-5:

0 adjacents. (yep, not once was Zihark next to Tauroneo. He just kept standing next to Jill, except the one turn he ran off and critblicked something. This is why I chose to figure things out with these two.)

1-6:

1-6-1:

nothing

1-6-2:

8 adjacents, failure.

So, yeah, 32 points for the adjacents, 16 points from the 1-6 chapter bonus. If they got any sort of bonus points for both participating in 1-5, this would have done it. This combined with the other two pairs leads to this conclusion:

They don't get a chapter bonus for 1-5 but they do keep their adjacent points. Which also leads to the assumption that a blue unit shoving one of Zihark/Jill/Tauroneo would also get and keep the shove points, since that's how it works in 1-7. It isn't a lot of points, but it could shave off one necessary adjacent between Volug and Zihark, for example. If you can pull it off without causing issues, of course. It isn't much, though. Also, I guess I need to test healing a green unit to see if it gains points, so I suppose I'd better get Tormod injured in 1-7 and see if Micaiah or Laura healing him while he's green would gain points. If anyone wants a Jill/Zihark x Micaiah or Laura x Jill/Zihark or something, knowing that healing in 1-5 would also boost support points might be a good thing.

Anyway, since I had to go through 1-5 and 1-6 anyway, I figured why not confirm the single chapter bonus for 1-6 thing with other units and to also test if a blue unit gets a chapter bonus with a green unit in 1-5.

Ed x Nolan, an FF 01.

1-5

2 adjacents.

1-6-1

2 adjacents.

1-6-2

nothing, failure.

1 shove, success.

Laura x Ilyana, a 00 02.

1-5

1 adjacent, 1 heal.

1-6-1

1 adjacent, 1 heal.

1-6-2

4 shoves, failure.

1 adjacent, 2 shoves, success.

Meg x Leo, a 00 02.

1-5

2 adjacents.

1-6-1

2 adjacents.

1-6-2

2 adjacents, failure.

2 adjacents, 1 shove, success.

Aran x Volug, a 00 02.

1-5

2 adjacents

1-6-1

nothing

1-6-2

4 adjacents, 1 shove, failure.

4 adjacents, 2 shoves, success.

Micaiah x Jill, a 00 01

1-5

nothing.

1-6-1

1 adjacent.

1-6-2

6 adjacents, 1 sacrifice, failure. (28 + 5 + 16 = 49, so yeah they get nothing for both being "deployed" in 1-5.)

Really, most of those tests weren't needed, and the Micaiah x Jill thing was only really needed if Jill/Taur/Z had earned a chapter bonus for 1-5 with each other, in order to confirm they get nothing with the blue units in 1-5. But since they didn't get a chapter bonus with each other, it was basically a foregone conclusion that they wouldn't get a chapter bonus with the blue units in 1-5.

On a side note, since I was doing so much in 1-6-2, it seems that in order to get the full bexp amount for the turn bonus all that matters is 1-6-2 itself. I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this, but if you finish 1-6-2 in 15 turns you get max. If you finish in 16 you get 500 on NM, so likely 250 on HM, instead of the full 700/350. I did 1-6-1 in 7 turns (ended on turn 7 enemy phase) so it seems unlikely the game chose 22 turns as the limit. So basically 1-6-1 is basically like 3-6 or other chapter with no turn bonus. The game simply doesn't punish for waiting around forever in 1-6-1. And since 1-6-2 can be 4 or 5 turned rather easily, and less if you want, it seems rather silly that the game gives 15 turns for that one chapter. I think some programmer screwed up the bexp calculator for that part and forgot to add 1-6-1 to the turncount that is compared against 15 turns to determine bexp.

[Interceptor]

I've always gotten max BEXP on 1-6, and I thought it was because I'm awesome. Now it turns out that it's only because IS is stupid. Oh wells.

[Jaybee]

Really?

That's an easy way for near-guaranteed full BEXP.

[Narga_Rocks]

I've always gotten max BEXP on 1-6, and I thought it was because I'm awesome. Now it turns out that it's only because IS is stupid. Oh wells.

Well, as long as you 9 turn 1-6-1 and 6 turn 1-6-2, or better, you still get max for being awesome, because assuming IS meant to make it 15 combined it's still good. The trouble is certain tier list people might attempt to use IS being stupid as justification for snailing 1-6 to achieve a C in 1-7 for certain characters.

[Zkirsche]

I'll feel really sorry for you if NM is different to HM, narga. But anyway, great work.

Oh, does unit A gain points with Unit B if Unit A takes Unit B from Unit C? And does dropping someone affect the point system?

Edited August 14, 2009 by kirsche

[Narga_Rocks]

I'll feel really sorry for you if NM is different to HM, narga. But anyway, great work.

Thanks.

I figure if HM is different than NM then all this at least helps the players who don't play HM. Besides, if the system is similar with different point values I'm at least hoping that it'll be easy to figure out. A lot of my testing so far is what gains points and what doesn't, as well as how the game treats green or red units. I figure a bit of testing of Meg in 1-4 and any changes can be extrapolated, as long as the basics remain the same and only point values change.

Oh, does unit A gain points with Unit B if Unit A takes Unit B from Unit C? And does dropping someone affect the point system?

unit A doesn't gain anything with unit B for taking it from unit C on turn x. If unit A keeps holding onto unit B when turn x + 1 begins, then unit A gets the hold points. If unit A had done a take + drop of unit B all in turn x, then unit A would not get hold points with unit B.

Hold points are only earned by carrying another unit when player phase comes up on the screen. Holding a unit at any other time means nothing. As such, dropping doesn't really matter. If unit A is holding unit B at the beginning of a turn, they get points. If he drops unit B, it doesn't take away those points.

In an example, I'll say what I do in 3-2.

On turn x, Heather starts away from the other three units I'm about to mention. I have Heather steal the card from the paladin. I then have Oscar pick her up and run to Titania. I have Titania take Heather from Oscar. Then I let turn x end. On turn x + 1, I have Titania "give" Heather to Haar. Then I have Haar fly to be diagonal from the bolting sage. I have Haar drop heather next to the Bolting sage, and so she is adjacent to Haar. On turn x + 2, Heather steals the bolting.

During this time, Heather x Titania has earned 5 points. This happened because Heather was being carried by Titania when turn x + 1 started.

Heather x Haar has earned 3 points. This happened because Heather was adjacent to Haar when turn x + 2 started.

Heather x Oscar gained no points, despite Oscar being the one to pick Heather up, because Titania took Heather away before turn x ended. Haar gained no points for the hold because Haar was given Heather and he dropped Heather all in the same turn. He only received adjacent points because they were adjacent when turn x + 2 started. If I had've killed the boss on turn x + 1, Haar x Heather would have gained no points. If I had've killed the boss on turn x, Heather x Titania would have gained no points.

This is because what we do during a turn doesn't matter for hold points or adjacent points. Those things only accumulate based on how everyone is positioned when the words player phase come up.

I hope that clears things up.

[Florete]

Sorry I took so long, I've had a lot of crap to do this past week (A lot still hasn't been done...). But I finally got myself to 2-E and wanted a reminder on what you wanted me to do. That is, if you still need me...

[Jaybee]

Checking if Marcia coming on the first turn affects chapter bonus points.

[Narga_Rocks]

Checking if Marcia coming on the first turn affects chapter bonus points.

Yeah, there's that. Basically finding out if she gains the chapter bonus with Brom, Nephenee, Heather, Calill, Lethe, Mordecai. And since I'm still playing in part 1 I would still appreciate your help.

She has a 01 with Heather, so if she gets the chapter bonus then they'd need to be adjacent for 9 turns in that map and then in 3-11 you can find out if they built a support. Or you could just have Marcia pick her up and hold her for 6 turns then drop her and stay away (Make sure Heather is being held by Marcia while the player phase words come up 6 times). Either way if they get a chapter bonus it should reach C for 3-11, and if they don't they wouldn't.

I don't think anything else is necessary to test. I was considering testing whether anyone in Elincia's group can gain points with Geoffrey/Astrid/Makalov/Danved/Kieran in 2-E through adjacents/shoving/healing/rescuing but since the DB can gain points for shoving the LEA while the LEA is green I'm assuming that since G/A/M/D/K are green they should be able to get the rest.

It is possible that they can't get points with Elincia's group for adjacents/rescuing, though, since they are in a different blue group than Elincia's crew. If you can, then you could also test out one of GAMDK with Nephenee or someone (not including Marcia/Calill and anyone not in 3-11 and 3-E) to build up some points in 2-E and 3-11 through adjacents. I'm thinking 4 adjacents in 2-E and 8 adjacents in 3-11. If the adjacents in 2-E earned points, then a C would be earned for 3-E. If the adjacents in 2-E did not earn points, then there would be no C support for 3-E. (I'm fairly certain that there is no chapter bonus for the CRKs in 2-E, but testing for that is done much more easily in 4-2 with Pelleas. Or if I go back and test in 1-2 and 1-3 with Sothe.)

If you already beat 2-E and just tested stuff with Marcia, that's likely good enough because I'm not sure it's necessary to do the other thing.

The only other thing really is part 3 stuff.

Shinon x Ike, Soren x Shinon, Soren x Ike, and Kyza x Ranulf or Lyre x Gatrie. Basically, a 00 03, a 00 04, a 00 00, and an FF 03. They are the only pairing types I couldn't test in part 1. Really I think finding out what works for getting a C is sufficient, since everything seems to stay the same for getting B or A aside from the "programming crutch point". (I really should've called that a "programmer's crutch point", but oh well.)

Really, if you can arrange 48/49 points and 50 points (including the chapter bonuses) in 3-P and 3-4 for the 4 different pairings in various ways to confirm failure and success then I think it's done. I guess since I think shoving gets no points for 03s it might be an idea to test Ike x Shinon with 17 adjacents and as many shoves as you feel like in 3-P to make sure that shoves get nothing. And since I think shoving is -1 point for 04s it might be an idea to get 50 points and then do a few shoves to see if it gets the C level or not.

In other words, confirming the point values for each action in my theory for 00 00, 00 03, FF 03, and 00 04.

Also, Lyre and Lethe in 3-1, to see if they act the same as Jill/Tauroneo/Zihark in 1-5. That is, don't gain adjacent or rescue points with blue units but they gain points for being shoved or healed. Also, if they get a chapter bonus either with each other or with the blue units (JTZ don't in 1-5). I'm sure they gain adjacent points for when they are next to each other, though you could confirm that as well.

Oh, forgot one other thing. Reyson performing a galdr while untransformed. Does it gain points and if so how many? It can likely be tested with any one support type and the answer for the others could be extrapolated.

Just to repost,

points are in order of: shove, adjacent, heal/sacrifice, holding, chapter bonus.

3, 5, 6, 7, 17 needs 50 for 00 00 and FF 00

2, 4, 5, 6, 16 needs 50 for 00 01 and FF 01

1, 3, 4, 5, 15 needs 50 for 00 02 and FF 02

0, 2, 3, 4, 14 needs 50 for 00 03 and FF 03

-1, 1, 2, 3, 13 needs 50 for 00 04 and FF 04

Also, when making a C level support or a B level support (in the base), 1 point is gained towards the next level (so towards B or A).

Edited August 17, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Jaybee]

Note @ Red Fox and Narga: I'm at 2-3 now, so I guess I could help, though bear in mind it's on easy. (This is in case there's a difficulty in crease, though I guess I could check it out with RF)

[Narga_Rocks]

Note @ Red Fox and Narga: I'm at 2-3 now, so I guess I could help, though bear in mind it's on easy. (This is in case there's a difficulty in crease, though I guess I could check it out with RF)

Cool.

I've actually wondered a couple of things:

Is there a difference in points for difficulty level?

Is there a difference in points for the part? (1,2,3,4)

I'll check out part 2 to see if part 2 has the same point values as part 1 for NM, hopefully Red Fox can check in part 3 with one of the support types I've already tested to see if the point values are the same there, too. Should just take a test to make sure 49 points fails and 50 points succeeds for a 00/FF 01, or a 00/FF 02. Could be tested with any of them, really. Assuming she's doing NM.

Well, in 2-3 I don't think you can see if there is a difference for difficulty level. When you get to 3-P, you can check one of the support types I've already tested to see if it's the same. Like, based on my numbers get 49 points and make sure it fails and get 50 and make sure it succeeds.

As for 2-3, some testing should likely be done with the CRKs in 2-3/2-E. I see no reason for them to get a chapter bonus for 2-E, but sadly they are rather unique. I think it is the only time blue units show up any time after turn 1 in numbers greater than 1. 1-P, 1-2, 4-2 has Leo, Sothe, and Pelleas, but in each chapter it's just the one guy.

So anyway, pick a pairing, Mak x Danved or Geoffrey x Kieran or whatever. They'll get a chapter bonus in 2-3. So try to get them to 49 points between 2-3 and 2-E, assuming only one chapter bonus. So for example Geoff and Kieran are a FF 01, so 8 adjacents would mean 32 + 16 = 48. So maybe 3 or 4 adjacents in 2-3 and the rest in 2-E. In 3-9, if they don't have a C support built, then we know they get no chapter bonus for 2-E. Just remember that anybody adjacent when turn 1 starts gets those points, ditto for anyone adjacent at the start of the first player phase you can use the CRKs in 2-E. Well, probably.

Now, chances are they don't get a chapter bonus for 2-E, so we already know the answer to this test. But we don't know it yet. I've thought some things would be true along the way that turned out to not be, so you never know.

If Red Fox can do the other tests I mentioned, you likely don't need to do those things. But since you are playing on easy mode you might get through faster. Plus, it sounds like Red Fox is rather busy these days, so no telling how much time she'd have for this. Prep for college/university is time consuming.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Jaybee]

What about Lyre in 3-1? Should I check her with Gatrie to see if they support in 3-4?

[Narga_Rocks]

What about Lyre in 3-1? Should I check her with Gatrie to see if they support in 3-4?

Well, yeah, there's them. I sort of glazed over the point without going to specifics on my post to Red Fox:

Also, Lyre and Lethe in 3-1, to see if they act the same as Jill/Tauroneo/Zihark in 1-5. That is, don't gain adjacent or rescue points with blue units but they gain points for being shoved or healed. Also, if they get a chapter bonus either with each other or with the blue units (JTZ don't in 1-5). I'm sure they gain adjacent points for when they are next to each other, though you could confirm that as well.

So yeah, I'd suggest Lyre x Mist, to be honest, since Gatrie x Lyre should be awfully slow. Lyre x Mist is a 00 01. You could check to see if they get a chapter bonus or can score some adjacent points. I really don't think they will get either of those, though. Lethe x Mist can be tested, too. Just stick the target square on Mist herself and Lethe and Lyre should both end up adjacent to Mist. It prevents testing Lethe x Lyre, though. If you can pull off the chapter without using Titania or Mist much (it is EM), then you could have Lethe stand next to Titania and Mist stand next to Lyre. That way, they are both 00 01 supports.

Simply have Mist stand next to Lyre 9 times, (ie: have them adjacent while the words player phase (as well as partner phase) appear 9 times) and in 3-4 see if they have a C.

For Lethe x Titania, have them stand adjacent 9 times between 3-1 and 3-4. So like, 5 in one, 4 in the other. In 3-5, Lethe is in red in the deployment menu, but in the base I think you can still see if they gained a support.

Note, since I don't think they'll get any adjacent points or chapter bonus points in 3-1 between green and blue units, you could actually go a little beyond the 9 adjacents. So like Lyre x Mist could have 10 adjacents in 3-1. Lethe x Titania could have 8 adjacents in 3-1 and another 4 in 3-4.

Either way it should let us know if in 3-1 they get either adjacent points or a chapter bonus or both for the units. If neither pairing gets a C for the chapters I said, then we know they don't get it.

You can also test Lethe x Lyre. They are a 00 00. In theory, if they start 10 partner phases together they should pull a C support for the start of 3-4. If they get a chapter bonus for 3-1, they should only need to start 7 partner phases together in 3-1. Hopefully they start 3-1 side-by-side, otherwise 10 turns pushes you all the way to turn 12. (partner phase 2 to 11 together, end on player phase turn 12 by killing last enemy.) Even if they start side-by-side on turn 1, you'd still need to end it on turn 11 player phase even if they stay side by side for the entire chapter.

I suppose you could have a canto unit pick Lyre up and another unit drop her next to Lethe if they don't start the map side-by-side.

If possible, and if Red Fox hasn't cleared 3-1 yet, one of you could have Lyre stand next to Lethe for 7 turns, the other could do it for 10 turns. That way, no one person has to clear 3-2 and 3-3 twice just to find out each thing.

[Jaybee]

Interesting.

...Mist?

Fuck you

[Narga_Rocks]

Interesting.

...Mist?

Fuck you

Sorry, but it's Lyre's only 01 at this point. The 02's take too long to get anything considering 3-1 is only 12 turns long. Besides, Mist is forced (I think everyone is forced this chapter) and this is an excuse for you to just hide her somewhere next to Lyre (who likely needs to hide as well) and not really use her. That's a good thing, right? Just means you aren't allowed to get her killed.

[Jaybee]

I mainly use her to weaken down those reinforcements that pop up behind, so she doesn't do much.

Cool. I'll let you know on my progress by next week, though I have exams the whole friggin week.

[Narga_Rocks]

Does anyone remember if Sigrun and Tanith stand next to each other in 3-12? Also if Sigrun is indeed carrying Sanaki. It would explain Tanith x Sigrun getting a C level so easily. They are force deployed in 3-11, so get 17 points. If 3-12 takes you 8 turns (7 enemy phases), then in 3-11 they could spend the entire map on opposite sides and still pull off a C support for 3-E. With just 5 turns (4 enemy phases, if the xth kill happened on player phase) in 3-1 they'd still get 4 x 5 = 20 points (or 5 x 5 = 25 points if the last kill happened during enemy phase), needing only 3 adjacents in 3-11 to get a C for 3-E. (or possibly just 2, depending on precisely when 3-12 ended)

Anyway, point is Tanith x Sigrun C support is likely insanely easy to achieve for 3-E because of 3-12.

Another question mark is Lethe and Mordecai. In HM they move, and it would be hard to tell if they stayed together. Way back near the beginning of the year when I did NM I used the torch staff (and moving Jill and Laura far) to see Lethe and Mordecai. I just don't remember if Lethe was adjacent to Mordecai. If so, then I'd assume they would at least be together for turn 1. If they move together during the map and don't separate, then they'd accumulate a fair amount of points towards the next support level, possibly getting B in 3-7 if they had C in 3-4.

Soren and Ike would likely be A level by 3-13 if they were made to support each other from the beginning, so it doesn't help there. Also, 3-7 might have some DB units next to each other, though I forget who would and if any of them need to build supports. I know Jill and Zihark don't start near anyone. 3-10 has Elincia and Lucia and the CRKs, and some of them end up standing adjacent during the map. I don't remember any other situations where non-blue units have a good chance of building points, other than the ones in these paragraphs and a few mentioned in previous posts.

Another somewhat useful list might be:

In maps with more than one unit with a forced deployment (and position) to state which ones start adjacent, since starting adjacent means getting points for that adjacent when turn 1 begins. Also, a list of how many adjacent deployment squares there are in each map. Three squares next to each other would count as 1 pair, since it is likely people wouldn't be trying to build points for one unit with two others at the same time. Also there isn't much point. So the list would only state the maximum number of pairs that could build points, where each pair has two units that are not part of another pair.

_____

__+__

_+++_

__+__

_____

If the +'s are deployment positions, and the _s are not, then this formation counts as 1, despite the middle spot being adjacent to 4 other spots.

_____

__++_

_+++_

_++__

_____

This counts as 3, since the most pairs that can be made is 3. The 7th spot will be next to 2 other spots, but it doesn't matter since the units in both of those other 2 spots would already be part of a buddy pair.

This could assist in planning, or just for curiosity, since it allows us to know how many buddy pairs can build adjacent points on turn 1, which saves effort in getting to 50 because one less adjacent needs to be forced during the map. And knowing where the Lords start allows people to know how many pairs they can make if they are building points for the lord or if they aren't.

[Jaybee]

I know Lethe and Mordy are next to each other for sure. I've seen it on a ton of vids.

[Narga_Rocks]

I know Lethe and Mordy are next to each other for sure. I've seen it on a ton of vids.

Yeah, I just checked Vykan's speed run. They start adjacent on NM, and if you don't go near them they'll never move. So on NM anyway, it's rather easy to get B Lethe x Mordecai for 3-7.

Still, for HM, I have no idea if they stay adjacent most turns they are moving towards us or if they ever end up not adjacent. Regardless, they'd have to get at least 4 points given they at least start adjacent.