Superbus Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I agree with this. I'm trying to play it (downloaded it over Wii Shop Channel about two months ago) and I'm so used to linear games it's mind-boggling. Granted, I'm taking up a vow against using any kinds of guides for the game, so it's my own fault. Don't even try, dude. Back when that game was new, Nintendo started packing in a big strategy guide called the Official Nintendo Player's Strategy Guide with every NES, and we had to use the maps and hints within that, and other random hints patchworked in from other sources, to beat the game. Otherwise, you're going to resort to burning every bush (hope you have the red candle), bombing every wall piece, and trying to explore every nook and cranny to get everything. When Miyamoto made this game, it was with the belief that the journey was better than the destination; when you consider that it was motivated from his youth of just mindless exploring, it makes sense, and if you go into the game with that in mind, you'll have a better time of it. If you go in thinking of getting from point A to point B with a minimum of fuss, you're going to be frustrated, and the game won't be as fun. I can run through Zelda with no effort nowadays, but that's because I've been playing and beating the game now for 22 years. Even then, I just wander about a lot. Just because it's fun. As for what I think the hardest game is? Track down a ROM copy of Recca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Don't even try, dude. Back when that game was new, Nintendo started packing in a big strategy guide called the Official Nintendo Player's Strategy Guide with every NES, and we had to use the maps and hints within that, and other random hints patchworked in from other sources, to beat the game.This will always be my argument for games that you need a guide to beat. You had Nintendo Power back then, you have internet now.Same goes for Phantasy Star 1/2. Granted, you can get through the first quest without a guide, though you'll probably take forever doing so, but it's pretty much impossible to get everything in 2nd quest without one. That's one good thing about Zelda II, it's doesn't really require a guide except for maybe one or two areas. It's challenge comes from the player needing to be good at combat, which advice can be made, but still something a player must develop on his own. Edited July 24, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Fucking "Jane's Fighter's Anthology". That shit requires you spend like 5-10 minutes learning how to goddamn move. Every single button has a function, and several have 2-3 that can be toggled by holding Shift or Control or Alt and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbus Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Zelda's challenge - we're talking the original and I'll include Link to the Past and the Oracle games as well - is less with combat and more just finding what you need to do. There's a lot of exploration, something I think was lost with the more linear games such as Phantom Hourglass. Since we're on the subject of guides... *puts on old-man glasses* I think there's a difference between then and now. Back then, Nintendo Power, GamePro and the like weren't really *necessary*; Phantasy Star II came with a guide, but you didn't *need* it to get through the game. However, guides have become a big business. Brady and Prima release their guides before the games are even out, and most of them are just loaded with fluff and art. The guide industry is in bed with the developers, which means that it's mutually beneficial to make games SO deep and SO full of bullshit that HAS to be done that you have to get a guide the moment you buy the game, if only so that you can get through it in one piece. There's a guide for the Fallout expansions at Gamestop now. For the EXPANSIONS!!! It's $20! It's a complete rip-off... but good luck getting around without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinKuma Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Hmmm. Contra w/o the Konami code makes the game a little hard but one older game I can think of I had trouble with was Sector Z on the NES. If you make a wrong choice in which direction you go you can get thrown back a heap of levels and have to do a lot of rework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Zelda II is difficult, but a balanced kind of difficult. It isn't cheap at all, you simply have to be very good at the game and know how to use your resources well. Think Megaman 9 difficulty, well designed and very fun. To disacknowledge its existence just because of the difficulty is shameful, and I lost all respect for Jyosua for it. I disagree. Zelda II is difficult because it's a poor design, with a number of glitches and annoyances. Megaman 2 and 9 are difficult, but fun because of the way they are designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 a poor designWhat?How is it poorly designed? Glitches and annoyances? Can you elaborate on what you call poorly designed? Zelda II is one of the shining examples of a well designed hard game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) I disagree. Zelda II is difficult because it's a poor design, with a number of glitches and annoyances. Megaman 2 and 9 are difficult, but fun because of the way they are designed. Megaman 2 is difficult? That's news to me. I found it easy. 1 and 8 are harder to beat, along with 9. Edited July 24, 2009 by Black Luster Soldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Megaman 2 is difficult? That's news to me. I found it easy. 1 and 8 are harder to beat, along with 9. Okay, I'll concede that 1 is hard. But Megaman 8? Are you kidding? You HAVE to be kidding on that one. I've beaten it so many times, it's not even funny. Before 9, however, Megaman 2 was considered to be one of the most difficult in the classic series. What? How is it poorly designed? Glitches and annoyances? Can you elaborate on what you call poorly designed? Zelda II is one of the shining examples of a well designed hard game. I believe there is a topic that explains this elsewhere on these forums. I recommend searching for it. I clearly remember there being a Zelda II topic where this was argued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I clearly remember there being a Zelda II topic where this was argued. I clearly remember winning said argument too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Haha, I remember that topic. That was what inspired me to record one of my Zelda II playthroughs. I should really get back to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Okay, I'll concede that 1 is hard. But Megaman 8? Are you kidding? You HAVE to be kidding on that one. I've beaten it so many times, it's not even funny. Before 9, however, Megaman 2 was considered to be one of the most difficult in the classic series. I'm fucking serious. But then again, I haven't played it in a long time (I lost my Anniversary Collection disc), and I can breeze through Megaman 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 There are two types of MM8 levels: 1. CHARGED ARROW SHOT 2. JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE JUMP SLIDE One of these two is harder than the other, and annoying enough for me to put down MM8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Ninja Gaiden Black is probably the hardest game I have ever played that's difficulty wasn't due to cheap game design. And I remember that zelda 2 topic. Honestly though as much as I enjoy its difficulty you can see the poor design whenever you fight iron knuckles. This isn't like alot of games where you get some frames to see if there going high or low so this can lead to a free hit or two every time you fight one.... and when you fight like 4-5 in a dungeon it can really bring you down in health. Other than that the game is pretty well made. Edited July 24, 2009 by Lancelot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I enjoy its difficulty you can see the poor design whenever you fight iron knuckles.Jump and strike at their heads.It's seriously that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burning_phoneix Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 There's a guide for the Fallout expansions at Gamestop now. For the EXPANSIONS!!! It's $20! It's a complete rip-off... but good luck getting around without it. You mean the Fallout 3 DLC packs? Fucking "Jane's Fighter's Anthology". That shit requires you spend like 5-10 minutes learning how to goddamn move. Every single button has a function, and several have 2-3 that can be toggled by holding Shift or Control or Alt and shit. Welcome to the wonderful world of hardcore military sims! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Majora's Mask (I have no idea how I'm supposed to do the Great Bay Temple) F-Zero GX ( FE8 (I'm playing on "easy" and I'm stuck on Ch. 4!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Majora's Mask (I have no idea how I'm supposed to do the Great Bay Temple) Yay I'm not alone *throws confetti all over the place* i got to the boss though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burning_phoneix Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 FE8 (I'm playing on "easy" and I'm stuck on Ch. 4!) Please tell me the 8 is a typo and you don't mean Sacred Stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yay I'm not alone *throws confetti all over the place* i got to the boss though. I remember when I first went there. It took me a really long time to get to the boss, and I think I even got the bottle from the beavers afterwards. Then, I forget to save. Oh shi-! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) It's not a typo I'm afraid (and yes, I do mean Sacred Stones). Let's see: I have 3 units that can't kill anything without taking a lot of damage (Eirika, Franz and Franz's General buddy), and 1 unit (Seth) who is the only one who can actually kill an enemy, and as a result hogs all the experience (making it that the aforementioned 3 units don't have any chance to level up). Edited July 25, 2009 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Knight Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Breath of Fire V. :/ There's actually a time limit to finish the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) It's not a typo I'm afraid (and yes, I do mean Sacred Stones). Let's see: I have 3 units that can't kill anything without taking a lot of damage (Eirika, Franz and Franz's General buddy), and 1 unit who insta-kills every enemy, therefore hogging all the experience (so that the aforementioned 3 units can't have a chance to level up). They can, just don't worry about it too much. That map is easy without Seth. Heck I think Eirika shouldn't have much trouble soloing while she's packing Vulneraries. On-topic: Some 'Bangai-O Spirits' missions. Freaking counter-bullets. Edited July 25, 2009 by Sirius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Let's see: I have 3 units that can't kill anything without taking a lot of damage (Eirika, Franz and Franz's General buddy), and 1 unit (Seth) who is the only one who can actually kill an enemy, and as a result hogs all the experience (making it that the aforementioned 3 units don't have any chance to level up). You can pretty much solo the game with Seth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 It's not a typo I'm afraid (and yes, I do mean Sacred Stones). Let's see: I have 3 units that can't kill anything without taking a lot of damage (Eirika, Franz and Franz's General buddy), and 1 unit (Seth) who is the only one who can actually kill an enemy, and as a result hogs all the experience (making it that the aforementioned 3 units don't have any chance to level up). A unit with ridiculous growths and base stats hogging EXP in a game that lets you grind infinitely? Wat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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