Radiant Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Anyone think Marcia could go above Boyd? What I want to know is, why isn't she sitting right below Jill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Well, the comparison isn't as clear cut as, say, Jill vs Oscar, as I think Marcia needs a bit more to drag her out of her hole and is also inferior statistically to top it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Maybe I'm just used to draft playthroughs, but doesn't the benefit of raising Marcia greatly outweigh the cost? Oscar wins until she joins, but then she wins for the rest of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Only if we pour into her all of our bexp. Otherwise, their stats are much more comparable than Jill vs Oscar, with Jill having a much better statistical comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Well, how much BEXP are we giving people? There's a lot of terrain in this game, and 2 fliers > 1 fliers. I would think Marcia > Boyd would be obvious, at least. Oscar and Kieran may have slightly superior stats, but they won't be flying any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I agree, flight is too good in this game for Boyd to overcome. Versus Oscar and Kieran is a different story, but I could see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Boyd's got stats, but I think Marcia's move lead and flying could probably beat that out. I could sort of see Marcia>Kieran- flight utility vs. better stats. She also joins a bit before him, and she's not bad at combat. Debatable, though, since IIRC most of the statistical wins are pretty tough to say she can overcome them with flying (str and def, notably. maybe def not as much but 15% higher growth isn't something she'll ever beat) also can't remember if she can use Knight Ward. if not he beats her in speed). Marcia > Oscar is a stretch- she's only that good in drafts because there you don't have to worry about people who aren't drafted and have tons of BEXP to give her. Edited April 11, 2011 by Reinfleche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 But are her 'lower' stats a problem if she still manages to hold her own in combat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Marcia can't use the KW, not like she needs more speed really. I'm open to Gatrie>Brom and Marcia>Boyd, though I'll wait for a few more opinions I guess. Oscar and Boyd also have the advantage of existing in earlygame. Edited April 11, 2011 by -Cynthia- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 You also have to rely on Boyd's biorhythm being good for the first part of the game, because Tempest doubles negative effects as well as positive. With Tempest!Lowest he's got no avoid which is dangerous for him earlygame with his poor defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 People take Biorhythm into account now? You're grasping at the straws here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 People take Biorhythm into account now? You're grasping at the straws here. It's pretty valid in Boyd's case since it can instantly drop his Hit down 10-20, pending on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Biorhythm is +/- 5 in FE9, with no in-betweens. Also, judging from how biorhythm increments in FE9, being at bad bio is kind of a big deal with Tempest. Biorhythm increments by 1 point every 10 battles and by 7 points every chapter, and the region of bad bio is 18-29, inclusive (so 12 points). If Boyd enters a map at bad bio, he's going to stay at bad bio. Edited April 12, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Biorhythm is +/- 5 in FE9, with no in-betweens. ...Well.. ...*Hangs*. Guess 10 is the only difference. >_>; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Or you could just remove Tempest if you know it's going to make a significant impact on his accuracy or avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Or you could just remove Tempest if you know it's going to make a significant impact on his accuracy or avoid. But not until Chapter 8, and the argument was for the early game maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm open to Gatrie>Brom and Marcia>Boyd, though I'll wait for a few more opinions I guess. Oscar and Boyd also have the advantage of existing in earlygame. I'd agree with both of those changes. Gatrie can get the Elixier in chapter 3, help with the rout in chapter 7 and has basically free deployment in chapter 13 if you want to count that. After that point, their low move holds both of them back anyway, so any statistical leads Brom has are pretty useless. Regarding earlygame, when we go by turncounts only, Boyd saves maybe 2 turns (chapters 2 and 7)? If I'm not mistaken, Oscar saves turns in chapters 1, 2, 6, 7 and 9 (if we don't want to recruit Marcia for some reason) for a total of maybe 4/6 turns. Lastly, why is Kieran that high anyway? Sure, he's got great stats for the most part, but he has only 3 chapters more than Astrid and 4 more than Makalov, and he can't contribute that much in those chapters (chapter 11 depends on how much BEXP we give him, but Marcia makes better use of it iirc, 12 might as well have a set turncount, I guess he can help in 13 to end the chapter early). So while he's better than the other two, is it really enough to justify a whole tier difference, seeing as they will have similiar performance for most of the game (Astrid and Makalov might need slightly more BEXP, but it's not like we don't have any)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Lastly, why is Kieran that high anyway? Sure, he's got great stats for the most part, but he has only 3 chapters more than Astrid and 4 more than Makalov, and he can't contribute that much in those chapters (chapter 11 depends on how much BEXP we give him, but Marcia makes better use of it iirc, 12 might as well have a set turncount, I guess he can help in 13 to end the chapter early). So while he's better than the other two, is it really enough to justify a whole tier difference, seeing as they will have similiar performance for most of the game (Astrid and Makalov might need slightly more BEXP, but it's not like we don't have any)? He's much, much better than the two though. With stats comparable to Oscar right on join time, and better availability, the tier gap is justified IMO. The bexp difference also is 'slight' either. Edited April 12, 2011 by Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 He's much, much better than the two though. With stats comparable to Oscar right on join time, and better availability, the tier gap is justified IMO. The bexp difference also is 'slight' either. But he doesn't do a lot before they join, and his stats, while slightly better, don't mean much when they have no problem ORKOing and not dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 But he doesn't do a lot before they join, and his stats, while slightly better, don't mean much when they have no problem ORKOing and not dying. Except they don't ORKO and never die until chapter 17+ or so. Kieran is like that in chapter 11 and does just as much as Oscar, perhaps even more due to better Atk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Except they don't ORKO and never die until chapter 17+ or so. Why not? It's not like they require that much more BEXP than Kieran, since Makalov is only a few levels behind and Astrid has Paragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Makalov is a few levels behind but has worse bases, and Astrid may have paragon, but she starts a level 1. It doesn't take a lot, yeah, but Kieran doesn't need any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Makalov is a few levels behind but has worse bases, and Astrid may have paragon, but she starts a level 1. It doesn't take a lot, yeah, but Kieran doesn't need any. He needs some BEXP. The point is that Kieran isn't so much better than Astrid and Makalov to warrant being a whole tier above them. At the very least, he should not be above Marcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) I'd sooner agree with Kevin on this one. Along with what he's already said, Astrid has a Bow lock until promotion and Makalov has a Sword lock, neither of which are that good and both much inferior to Kieran's Axes. But he probably could stand to be below Marcia. Edited April 12, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) I could see Marcia>Kieran, though a comparison might be good. Not sure on her combat overall, I know it's pretty bad at base. BEXP and levels help this obviously. No one seems to be speaking up for Brom, so I'll just make that change. There are also the thieves, though I have no idea where to move them to and I'm not quite convinced their current positions are so terrible. Edited April 12, 2011 by -Cynthia- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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