FE4 Gen 2 list

[grandjackal]

Mmm...Mekkah wants me to be more lenient with gen 1 pairings. It's not like Lachesis Fin is anything ridiculous like FinSylvia, so change it back to Fin?

Which makes me think if Arden should be considered.

Looking at the growths of his children, he basically breaks down into this.

-All his kids end up similar to Lex, only problem is no Elite.

-This lets us have basically two possible Lex kids, just one pairing is Lex-Lite.

-Due to being a General on promotion, this basically means his kids will always inherit something unless you were stupid enough to make him the parent of a mage, due to generals having access to any physical weapon. Example is Delmud. He gets Elite from Lex, but he can get any sword he wants from Arden. Both basically will inherit the pursuit ring, but Arden/Delmud will have better weapons to work with. The only real downside is the kids don't have Elite. Here's the kicker though. Who more often than not is gonna be around Lachesis? Certainly not huge move Lex, but rather fellow foot soldier Arden.

Or how about Skasher? I'd like him to start with a silver claymore, wouldn't you? Sure, both kids don't have Elite, but I AM saying Arden is Lex-Lite. Unlike Lachesis though, Lex makes up for it by a love convo, so it's not slow when they're around.

Same with Faval and Patty, again Patty can inherit swords. No Elite is a greater problem for her than the other two though I guess...Starting with the wind Sword though is always nice.

[Paperblade]

Ardan is unlikely to even promote because of how bad he is in Gen 1, how is he going to pass on anything better than B rank Swords?

ArdanDelmud has 15% Skl and 30% Spd growths, he's so inaccurate and slow that he'll probably be unable to complete the arena, which puts him even further behind other Delmuds. Lachesis has shit for growths other than Str which is wtfinsane, which sucks because without Str the only thing Ardan isn't Jeigan tier in are HP (who cares) and Defense.

And the problem is that Lex's only use for most kids is Elite, since other parents like Noish give similar stats but better offensive skills or like Midir/Beo just outright better stats.

ArdanPatty is no better than Dew because she has no killing power and doesn't get double EXP like Lex.

Faval doesn't really care about anything in particular.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Paperblade

[Blademaster!]

Mmm...Mekkah wants me to be more lenient with gen 1 pairings. It's not like Lachesis Fin is anything ridiculous like FinSylvia, so change it back to Fin?

In the case of Delmud, you should just list the pairing as maybe Delmud [beowolf>Fin] or vice versa and then have Nanna!Fin be above Nanna!Beowolf. The pairings are very similar, but each is oriented to be more favorable for a different child. And Lachesis!Beowolf kids are still a good enough pairing to be listed.

If you were to only list one of the two pairings though, Lachesis!Fin kids would be better. Nanna!Fin is clearly superior to Nanna!Beowolf and Delmud!Beowolf v.s. Fin!Beowolf really just comes down to whether or not duel is a good skill for non projectile units.

[Narga_Rocks]

About Arden: Also 50% def growth with blood is so much better than 40% def growth without blood.

Lakche gets 40% def growth from Lex, and would only get 20% from Arden. (40% vs. 60%)

Edited October 17, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Renall]

The reason Ardan's kids aren't considered in anything is because Ardan is universally terrible as a father. Remember, this is individual kids, not pairings, so you can't argue "Soandso [Ardan] also frees up Lex for use on other kids." If you can do that, you can argue dumb shit like "Sety [Claude] frees up Holsety for Arthur, so he's top tier!" It's good logic for a pairing debate (except for how Ardan is terrible), but not for an individual character tier list. None of Ardan's kids are ever going to approach usefulness, or at least won't be better than the Lex version so Lex's will be the ones tiered.

Even if we are as favorable to Ardan as we can be - we'll assume he promotes, hell I'll assume he caps at 30 and clears enough arenas to have all the money in the world to pass shit down - he offers nothing but weapon inheritance, really.

[_____]

If you were to only list one of the two pairings though, Lachesis!Fin kids would be better. Nanna!Fin is clearly superior to Nanna!Beowolf and Delmud!Beowolf v.s. Fin!Beowolf really just comes down to whether or not duel is a good skill for non projectile units.

Don't forget sword inheritance.

[Blademaster!]

If you were to only list one of the two pairings though, Lachesis!Fin kids would be better. Nanna!Fin is clearly superior to Nanna!Beowolf and Delmud!Beowolf v.s. Fin!Beowolf really just comes down to whether or not duel is a good skill for non projectile units.

Don't forget sword inheritance.

Considering you have 3 units to pass swords down to at the very beginning of gen 2 right when the chapter starts, along with the fact that you start off right next to the home castle and can put stuff in the pawn shop right away, I wouldn't say it's the inheritance is enough in this situation to really change things to much.

I'm not trying to say it doesn't happen, but it isn't like Beowolf!Lester v.s. Midir!Lester inheritance or something like that. It's just a lot easier to deal with is all.

[AceNoctali]

M'well, Adan does have a slight advantage against Lex when pairing him with Edin : Bow inheritance for Lester along with an automatic and free Pursuit Ring inheritance. If you manage to promote Adan, slap him the Killer Bow and Lester is good to go.

Now, key word in the sentence is : If you manage to promote Adan. He has such low-ass Movement I don't think he'll be ever able to do this in an efficient run. I'm not a tier debater, so I'll just point this fact to you and leave it to you for debate if Lester [Adan] is worth being put in the list.

[Mekkah]

Mmm...Mekkah wants me to be more lenient with gen 1 pairings. It's not like Lachesis Fin is anything ridiculous like FinSylvia, so change it back to Fin?

I don't think I said this...but I do agree with PaperBlade that Fin!Nanna should be on there, and by extension, Fin!Delmud.

As for pairing Lachesis or Ayra or whoever with Ardan so "you can have multiple Lex kids except without Elite":

[Dat Nick]

Nah, ArdenxAdeen means no pursuit for Rana and no Charge for Lester plus reliance on the pursuit ring. nothx.

ArdenxAyra isn't awful [Though it is totally inferior to LexAyra for most possible intents and purposes, and I say most because sword inheritence], but then again, swordkids are even more impossible to fuck up than Faval.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I'm surprised Lex!Fee isn't on that list.

[Dat Nick]

It's pretty much the only way to make Sety suck. That's why.

EDIT: Actually I'm not 100% sure about that, I was under the impression Sety had Beowulf's magic growth. He has the same as Noish. Granted the only reason SetyNoish's offense is good is because he has a bunch of skills and shit, but 2RKOing a lot isn't awful when most nonholy weapon users have to deal with that anyway, and I'm sure 18 def+Ambush+1-2 range counts for something. Plus his 10% magic growth goes up faster due to lolElite anyway. Granted it's still worse than Hawk and it's clearly a onesided pairing, but you can work with it.

I dunno, what does everybody else think?

Edited October 28, 2009 by BBblader

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

I actually thought of arguing Lex!Fee a few times. I figured alot of people would have thrown a shit fit if sety stopped one rounded so I never mentioned it. That durability advantage on top of elite/ambush could allow fee with the hero's lance to go where no pegasus knight has gone before. She could fly ahead and take on hordes of enemies by herself. It also allows her to reach promotion sooner so she can heal more on top of being statistically better. Lex!Fee might even be better than the best versions of delmud due to flight.

She has both lances and swords at B rank so she has better weapon triangle control than delmud. Her speed ain't bad either. She has a 40% growth on top of a 15 base speed and gains +3 speed on promotion. Fin/Beo Delmud also only have 1-2 more hp at base and 1-2 more strength. Fin's got 110 hp and 70 strength and beo's got 120 hp and 80 for strength in growths. Fee's got 105% HP and 40% strength on top of elite and she has 70% defense while having the same base defense as them both. She has pursuit and the hero's lance is basically her weapon due to fee being the only person available to pass it down to. Delmud of course does have charisma and that does boost hit/avoid so it kinda equals out in combination with sety being meh.

She also has a 12% mag growth and gains 7 mag upon promotion where as fin and beo gain no mag upon promotion so she can always wield magic sword better than them both on top of flight+healing. And let's not even talk about res. She roflstomps them there. Does bow weakness offset all of this?

We're not considering opportunity cost though from creating a crappier version of sety rather than one of sety's better forms so it should be tier'd.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Lancelot

[General Spoon]

It's pretty much the only way to make Sety suck. That's why.

EDIT: Actually I'm not 100% sure about that, I was under the impression Sety had Beowulf's magic growth. He has the same as Noish. Granted the only reason SetyNoish's offense is good is because he has a bunch of skills and shit, but 2RKOing a lot isn't awful when most nonholy weapon users have to deal with that anyway, and I'm sure 18 def+Ambush+1-2 range counts for something. Plus his 10% magic growth goes up faster due to lolElite anyway. Granted it's still worse than Hawk and it's clearly a onesided pairing, but you can work with it.

I dunno, what does everybody else think?

I thought that we were ranking the children without taking their sibling into consideration.

[Dat Nick]

If it completely bones over one kid, it's probably not a good pairing to begin with [see AdeenAzel]. But Sety's not really getting boned. He won't one round or anything, sure, but he'll do plenty fine.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Just stick to the best 3 versions of a child regardless of parent. Example:

Levin!Sety

Claude!Sety

Noish!Sety or whatever Sety is the 3rd best.

Noish!Fee

Lex!Fee

Whatever other Fee is awesome.

[Dat Nick]

It's not adding THAT much clutter to the list, and this only leaves us exactly three Setys to work with anyway, so...

Oh hey, AzelFury could be-*shot*

[Blademaster!]

About Fee!Lex, ambush isn't really helping her to much, even if she has the hero lance. If an enemy attacks her, she likely isn't going to be killing anything in the first two hits before the enemy gets the chance to attack. If she has the power ring, it changes things a bit, but once you get to probably chapter 8, maybe chapter 9, it stops being all that effective.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

If it completely bones over one kid, it's probably not a good pairing to begin with [see AdeenAzel]. But Sety's not really getting boned. He won't one round or anything, sure, but he'll do plenty fine.

IMO if you plan to make Levin Arthur's father it doesn't really matter who Sety's father is. And it's pretty much better to give Holsety ability to Arthur especially once he promotes. Sure Lex!Sety will have crappy magic but he does get reasonable defense in return which somewhat makes up for the low magic since most magic-type classes are typically fragile to melee anyway. And think about it, Lex!Fee can be pretty damn broken, with Elite she'll get high very quickly along with great defense and strength which is something most pegasus knights lack in any FE game that they wish they had.

[Dat Nick]

MO if you plan to make Levin Arthur's father it doesn't really matter who Sety's father is.

what? of course it does. If we favor a good Sety over a good Fee, ClaudeSety>>>>>LexSety.

Sure Lex!Sety will have crappy magic but he does get reasonable defense in return which somewhat makes up for the low magic since most magic-type classes are typically fragile to melee anyway.

You realize this is just regurgitating what I've been saying this whole time.

About Fee!Lex, ambush isn't really helping her to much, even if she has the hero lance. If an enemy attacks her, she likely isn't going to be killing anything in the first two hits before the enemy gets the chance to attack. If she has the power ring, it changes things a bit, but once you get to probably chapter 8, maybe chapter 9, it stops being all that effective.

I said LexFee, not ArdenFee. Meaning she gets str, def, and Elite out of the deal as well. That's why I considered LexFee, not ambush.

[Blademaster!]

About Fee!Lex, ambush isn't really helping her to much, even if she has the hero lance. If an enemy attacks her, she likely isn't going to be killing anything in the first two hits before the enemy gets the chance to attack. If she has the power ring, it changes things a bit, but once you get to probably chapter 8, maybe chapter 9, it stops being all that effective.

I said LexFee, not ArdenFee. Meaning she gets str, def, and Elite out of the deal as well. That's why I considered LexFee, not ambush.

I'm just trying to say that ambush isn't helping her, so when judging her as a unit it comes down to it being that she has good str and def along with elite.

I just don't think the pairing is good enough to warrant being listed. I have some reasons as to why, but at the moment I don't have the time to explain.

[BBM]

Even if she doesn't kill in the first two hits, she has the defences to take a hit before finishing the enemy off.

Evevn if Lex!Sety isn't that good, we're judging units on individual merit, aren't we?

[Blademaster!]

Even if she doesn't kill in the first two hits, she has the defences to take a hit before finishing the enemy off.

Evevn if Lex!Sety isn't that good, we're judging units on individual merit, aren't we?

If she isn't killing in the first or second hit, then ambush is pointless since even without ambush she gets the same number of rounds of attack anyway.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

About Fee!Lex, ambush isn't really helping her to much, even if she has the hero lance. If an enemy attacks her, she likely isn't going to be killing anything in the first two hits before the enemy gets the chance to attack. If she has the power ring, it changes things a bit, but once you get to probably chapter 8, maybe chapter 9, it stops being all that effective.

I said LexFee, not ArdenFee. Meaning she gets str, def, and Elite out of the deal as well. That's why I considered LexFee, not ambush.

I'm just trying to say that ambush isn't helping her, so when judging her as a unit it comes down to it being that she has good str and def along with elite.

That was his point

Here's a simple solution: Shut up about Ambush when discussing Lex!Fee. It's the stats and Elite that make this kid worth considering and if she's not killing the enemy before she is attacked, then it's obviously not even worth this much discussion.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

what? of course it does. If we favor a good Sety over a good Fee, ClaudeSety>>>>>LexSety.

Now that, could be debatable. In my opinion if we were to choose between good Sety and good Fee I think Fee would be the better option here because she has way more mobility and will be more durable than Claude!Sety along with re-move/Canto. The only thing about Claude!Sety is that he has access to all staves and has pretty decent attack.