NONONONONO!!!! POOP YOU OBAMA!!!

[quanta]

Actually not a bad idea (despite the obvious outburst of whining it causes), but I'd much prefer it if the whole system wasn't thought of as being one-size-fits-all. If I had had to spend more time in high school classes, I actually would have learned less. I didn't need people less intelligent than me teaching me academics. I learned more doing a sport (in terms of work ethic and a lot of social skills I was lacking) and just reading on my own (which made up for the deficiency in the coverage of many subjects in high school).

And I agree with the people here who said they'd like more class options. By the time you hit high school, It'd be nice if everyone was up to par enough to have at least one class per semester that you took because it was a topic you particularly liked (philosophy, astronomy, woodshop or metalshop, theory of education, rhetoric, whatever) or if you could take one class less if you had a job, internship, or training that prepared for a particular career path (that required a decent amount of skill and paid well enough). I think it'd make sense if high school was a better bridge into college or vocational training. The problem is the more you want the curriculum to be able to branch out, the more students you need to keep a decent economy of scale.

It'd also be nice if there was a good system for testing out of classes. This helps prevent boredom for students who already know the material from something outside of school and saves resources by lowering class sizes so teachers can focus on people who need the help.

[General Spoon]

Actually not a bad idea (despite the obvious outburst of whining it causes), but I'd much prefer it if the whole system wasn't thought of as being one-size-fits-all. If I had had to spend more time in high school classes, I actually would have learned less. I didn't need people less intelligent than me teaching me academics. I learned more doing a sport (in terms of work ethic and a lot of social skills I was lacking) and just reading on my own (which made up for the deficiency in the coverage of many subjects in high school).

You don't need to be so humble about it.

a topic you particularly liked (philosophy, astronomy, woodshop or metalshop, theory of education, rhetoric, whatever)

Edited September 29, 2009 by General Spoon

[Zanarkin]

I hope i move out of this country by next summer

[lolDeath]

God knows a little extra education would kill all of you.

[Esau of Isaac]

Length of schooling is not the problem. It's the QUALITY. Quality over quantity, as they say.

Length of schooling can be important to address if it's not adequate enough to confer the information needed to students to do well.

I trust you won't deny that a teacher in an hour can explain more than the same teacher in a half hour?

Clearly, but my classes were always about an hour long. If you have classes less than that, well, that's just a scheduling problem.

And what of the person that thinks classes less than an hour and a half in length are similar results of scheduling problems?

There's no doubt that a good teacher can show their class needed info at a quicker pace, but you have to agree that, say, a half-hour extra in some classes would certainly give most teachers better time to hammer out the details and explain the specifics. It's just a shame that that would extend a school day's overall period to monstrous levels (around seven or eight hours), which is something I have no doubt American children would have trouble adjusting to and, yes, seems quite a bit overboard.

[General Spoon]

Something that hasn't been brought up yet. With a longer schoolday, more money would be used on utilities (heating, cooling, power, etc).

[Aitherion]

Something that hasn't been brought up yet. With a longer schoolday, more money would be used on utilities (heating, cooling, power, etc).

In general, most schools have at least a few teachers that stay for a few hours after school's end, be it for detention or grading or whatever. The elementary school near me stays functional as far as utilities go until about midnight.

So no, no really.

[Phoenix]

Dumbo Obamanation

No I don't wanna!!!

DISCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSS!!!!!!!!!!! AM I THE ONLY ONE MAD??? I BET NOT!!!

HAHAHAHAHHHH!!! I'm outta school so I couldn't care less, but I'm here if you need a hug or something

You could also read some Battle of the Minds Episodes in FFtF. They'll cheer you up too.

So the great messiah was serious about change huh? Maybe they should've asked "what" instead of asking "when".

[Candlejack]

Yet another reason how little Obama's presidency is justified; make his child supporters, effectively zombies, suffer for their choice.

Saddam would be proud.

[Der Kommissar]

The replies in this thread are delicious. It's quite easy to tell the morons from the people who believe knowledge is a good thing.

Jyosua raises a good point, though(!). Higher quality standards in education are called for, and we shouldn't be trying to force everyone into a university - trade classes should be brought back/expanded upon. Choice in general, as quanta mentioned, could use augmenting. We also need rid of this frankly idiotic tenant of No Child Left Behind that gives bad schools LESS money. However, class length is a problem when you're trying to communicate new ideas, and lengthier classes leaves more room for thorough explanations, questions, and in-class work over homework.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Der Kommissar

[SmartRutter7]

Well, i'm in college already, not like this'll affect me but, i still don't think it's worth it. I had more than enough time in high school to learn the material. I doubt any extra time would've helped me learn more, it was too easy anyway. Maybe instead teach kids more stuff or challenge them a bit more. Then you'd actually need more time to explain it all.

Besides, extra class time does not necessarily equal more learning. I think it just depends on how well you use the existing time to your advantage. If you figure how much time an average high-schooler is in a class, someone with an 8am to 3pm day would be taking classes roughly 35 hours a week. For me, i got 17 credit hours this semester (that's 17 hours of class per week, obviously). Of course, most of the other hours are used doing readings and studying, though i personally prefer that, since you can go at your own pace, instead of listening to a teacher drone on when you already know all about the subject matter being discussed.

Even though i'm in a classroom less than i was in high school, i still think i'm learning a bit more than high school since:

A. You can actually choose stuff you WANT to take (besides any general requirements). And of course, you can take courses that will actually pertain to whatever the hell it is you want to do in life.

B. Less wasted time - half my teachers talked and never did anything until 5 minutes after the class even started in high school.

C. Instead of having your teachers tell you everything you need to know, you actually have to READ and make sense of it yourself.

D. Oh yes, no more binders full of handouts where you fill in all the random words the teachers left out. Write your own notes of what you actually think is important. (that didn't apply to every teacher i had, thankfully)

On the topic of the longer school day, i already know what it's like to be at school from 8am to about 6pm (my awful tuesday/thursday schedule this semester). Quite honestly, as much as i do learn in that period, i'm exhausted by the end of the day. I not good with late afternoon classes, i'm too tired by that time of day. Also for the record, i have 4 1hr 15min classes on that day, 2 of which are after 3pm.

[lolDeath]

Yet another reason how little Obama's presidency is justified; make his child supporters, effectively zombies, suffer for their choice.

Saddam would be proud.

How old are you? I ask because I think it takes someone pretty early in years who watches way too much TV to make NO MORE SUMMER VACATION sound so overly dramatic.

[Fei Mao]

I think that if this idea is to be implemented, that Math and English classes (essay writing) should be extended first then decide if some of the other stuff should be extended (History and Science). I'm not sure about how the other states do this, but in California people entering a university under the CSUS system has to take a Math and English exam those basically decide if you have to attend remedial classes or not, and also the SAT test which if I recall the bulk of the question were in Math and English, if the Math and English classes do get extended through the school year and summer it would benefit the students that are taking an exam in whichever state a student is and probably avoid the count of students taking remedial classes, but yes the thought of extended classes making the attention of the people lower and how the material is taught would be a problem as some people already stated.

[Candlejack]

Yet another reason how little Obama's presidency is justified; make his child supporters, effectively zombies, suffer for their choice.

Saddam would be proud.

How old are you? I ask because I think it takes someone pretty early in years who watches way too much TV to make NO MORE SUMMER VACATION sound so overly dramatic.

Meh, it was supposed to be passed off as sarcasm, but I'll admit that I worded it awkwardly.

I agree with Komissar though- it IS entertaining to see all the middle-school/freshmen kids BAAWWWWWWW.

[Phoenix]

Yet another reason how little Obama's presidency is justified; make his child supporters, effectively zombies, suffer for their choice.

Saddam would be proud.

How old are you? I ask because I think it takes someone pretty early in years who watches way too much TV to make NO MORE SUMMER VACATION sound so overly dramatic.

Meh, it was supposed to be passed off as sarcasm, but I'll admit that I worded it awkwardly.

I agree with Komissar though- it IS entertaining to see all the middle-school/freshmen kids BAAWWWWWWW.

I'm pretty sure he was pointing the finger at everyone except Jyosua, Esau, and the really long posts with all the explanations.

All I know is, for longer classes in general, working longer on something has only made me more tired by the time it's over. It's not like teachers are going to be getting special instructions to USE their extra time effectively.

Ironically I tried to pay attention and learn in school, and the more I tried, the harder it was to retain the new stuff, and the longer the class felt. I think the answer lies in making education more interesting. That's what they do for younger students, and it seems to work well enough. I'm not saying to have a giant mascot come into the class room and brainwash the students, but maybe something along the lines of, "intrigue". It's easier to learn and want to learn when the material is attached to something that seems attractive, and not "work" related.

[Lychees]

I do feel the education system here has room for improvement. I wouldn't necessarily say extra school hours are the sole way to fix it, however. A better choice of classes, for one (like quanta brought up), is something that needs to be addressed. In general, I'd like to think one would put more effort into classes they are actually interested in. And I don't mean people should be able to be lax and just choose blow off classes—there should be some type of general guidelines that need to be met—but for the most part, you should be able to adjust your schooling schedule to meet these and hit your own interests too. Back to the main point of the article though, longer class times could potentially help out some. It is undeniable that if you have a competent teacher instructing for an hour and a half as opposed to 45 minutes, more information could be taught, more time could be spent helping the kids and going over concerns, etc etc. Though—especially after seeing some of the replies in this thread—I have my doubts that all kids would just easily accept and adjust to an extra three hours of schooling a day. If this was to be implemented, an hour or two would probably go over better with most.

In all honesty though, extending the actual school year itself instead of extending school hours seems like a less overwhelming alternative to me, at least. A mixture of the two would probably work as well. As the article even pointed out, some Asian countries that have longer school years than Americans consistently score better in subjects like math and science (though I recognize there are other things contributing to this as well). I can't speak for other districts, but my school district's summer vacation pushes three months. Is three months really necessary to have off? How many kids are really working or doing something else so vital that three months is essential? Decreasing summer vacation might help the whole, "back to school and I can't remember anything" syndrome, too.

Just my two cents worth. Education is important, and some here are over reacting to a proposal that's just meant to help you.

[Candlejack]

Phoenix has it good; teach things the kids will take interest in, rather than teach them the same exact subject they've already learned forty million times already.

Fuck, have field trips for history day based on, "The Development of the Cannon." That'll boost school attendance.

[quanta]

I think the answer lies in making education more interesting. That's what they do for younger students, and it seems to work well enough. I'm not saying to have a giant mascot come into the class room and brainwash the students, but maybe something along the lines of, "intrigue". It's easier to learn and want to learn when the material is attached to something that seems attractive, and not "work" related.

On the one hand, yes it's easier to learn if you're more interested. On the other hand? There will always be things you need to know and do that you find rather tedious and not particularly interesting. It's pretty hard to get someone who isn't very interested in even slightly abstract mathematics to be interested in algebra. And how to grab their attention is dependent on the person being taught.

Along with expanding choice and the curricula and improving quality and teacher responsibility/incentives, students need to be held more responsible for their education as time goes on. That means occasionally sucking it up and putting extra effort into things you're not particularly interested in.

[Phoenix]

I think the answer lies in making education more interesting. That's what they do for younger students, and it seems to work well enough. I'm not saying to have a giant mascot come into the class room and brainwash the students, but maybe something along the lines of, "intrigue". It's easier to learn and want to learn when the material is attached to something that seems attractive, and not "work" related.

On the one hand, yes it's easier to learn if you're more interested. On the other hand? There will always be things you need to know and do that you find rather tedious and not particularly interesting. It's pretty hard to get someone who isn't very interested in even slightly abstract mathematics to be interested in algebra. And how to grab their attention is dependent on the person being taught.

Along with expanding choice and the curricula and improving quality and teacher responsibility/incentives, students need to be held more responsible for their education as time goes on. That means occasionally sucking it up and putting extra effort into things you're not particularly interested in.

Or you could put the interesting stuff on the other other side of the tedious stuff. To get to the interesting learning, you must do a little work.

Example: Learn basic algebra first, then we can use said algebra to program an automated tripod mounted machine gun.

[Jyosua]

Length of schooling is not the problem. It's the QUALITY. Quality over quantity, as they say.

Length of schooling can be important to address if it's not adequate enough to confer the information needed to students to do well.

I trust you won't deny that a teacher in an hour can explain more than the same teacher in a half hour?

Clearly, but my classes were always about an hour long. If you have classes less than that, well, that's just a scheduling problem.

And what of the person that thinks classes less than an hour and a half in length are similar results of scheduling problems?

There's no doubt that a good teacher can show their class needed info at a quicker pace, but you have to agree that, say, a half-hour extra in some classes would certainly give most teachers better time to hammer out the details and explain the specifics. It's just a shame that that would extend a school day's overall period to monstrous levels (around seven or eight hours), which is something I have no doubt American children would have trouble adjusting to and, yes, seems quite a bit overboard.

Um, my schooling was 8 hours a day, and you didn't hear me complaining.

[Esau of Isaac]

Length of schooling is not the problem. It's the QUALITY. Quality over quantity, as they say.

Length of schooling can be important to address if it's not adequate enough to confer the information needed to students to do well.

I trust you won't deny that a teacher in an hour can explain more than the same teacher in a half hour?

Clearly, but my classes were always about an hour long. If you have classes less than that, well, that's just a scheduling problem.

And what of the person that thinks classes less than an hour and a half in length are similar results of scheduling problems?

There's no doubt that a good teacher can show their class needed info at a quicker pace, but you have to agree that, say, a half-hour extra in some classes would certainly give most teachers better time to hammer out the details and explain the specifics. It's just a shame that that would extend a school day's overall period to monstrous levels (around seven or eight hours), which is something I have no doubt American children would have trouble adjusting to and, yes, seems quite a bit overboard.

Um, my schooling was 8 hours a day, and you didn't hear me complaining.

As far as I know, the standard period for most high school students to attend classes is about six hours, from approximately 8 A.M. to 2 P.M., or an equivalent.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I love SF because I don't actually have to say anything because someone else will have already said what I would have said.

But yeah, I'm sure if it was implemented properly it could do pretty well.

[Jyosua]

Length of schooling is not the problem. It's the QUALITY. Quality over quantity, as they say.

Length of schooling can be important to address if it's not adequate enough to confer the information needed to students to do well.

I trust you won't deny that a teacher in an hour can explain more than the same teacher in a half hour?

Clearly, but my classes were always about an hour long. If you have classes less than that, well, that's just a scheduling problem.

And what of the person that thinks classes less than an hour and a half in length are similar results of scheduling problems?

There's no doubt that a good teacher can show their class needed info at a quicker pace, but you have to agree that, say, a half-hour extra in some classes would certainly give most teachers better time to hammer out the details and explain the specifics. It's just a shame that that would extend a school day's overall period to monstrous levels (around seven or eight hours), which is something I have no doubt American children would have trouble adjusting to and, yes, seems quite a bit overboard.

Um, my schooling was 8 hours a day, and you didn't hear me complaining.

As far as I know, the standard period for most high school students to attend classes is about six hours, from approximately 8 A.M. to 2 P.M., or an equivalent.

It is, but I went to a private school which ended around 3:45.

[Freohr Datia]

Freohr, no hate but when you have a strong thought on your mind you might as well put a strong word in your mouth, or your keyboard or whatever, nobody smart's judging anybody for it

I will take no offense

This isn't about anyone's judging or nuthin. I just don't cuss... At all... So far haven't had trouble with it. I really wonder why pplz think it's so hard to not do it I find it easy enough (not trying to imply that that's what you're trying to say... just wanted to make that clear =D).

OP: Spoken like a true 16-year-old girl.

=I Yepperz

That plus I very much doubt this is gonna come into effect.

I would be so happy if it didn't

God knows a little extra education would kill all of you.

yes

HAHAHAHAHHHH!!! I'm outta school so I couldn't care less, but I'm here if you need a hug or something

You could also read some Battle of the Minds Episodes in FFtF. They'll cheer you up too.

So the great messiah was serious about change huh? Maybe they should've asked "what" instead of asking "when".

>=P

I could use some cheering... maybe... for now I'm feeling a bit more tranquil...

A better choice of classes, for one (like quanta brought up), is something that needs to be addressed. In general, I'd like to think one would put more effort into classes they are actually interested in. And I don't mean people should be able to be lax and just choose blow off classes—there should be some type of general guidelines that need to be met—but for the most part, you should be able to adjust your schooling schedule to meet these and hit your own interests too.

It is undeniable that if you have a competent teacher instructing for an hour and a half as opposed to 45 minutes, more information could be taught, more time could be spent helping the kids and going over concerns, etc etc.

Though—especially after seeing some of the replies in this thread—I have my doubts that all kids would just easily accept and adjust to an extra three hours of schooling a day. If this was to be implemented, an hour or two would probably go over better with most.

As the article even pointed out, some Asian countries that have longer school years than Americans consistently score better in subjects like math and science (though I recognize there are other things contributing to this as well).

I can't speak for other districts, but my school district's summer vacation pushes three months. Is three months really necessary to have off? How many kids are really working or doing something else so vital that three months is essential? Decreasing summer vacation might help the whole, "back to school and I can't remember anything" syndrome, too.

Just my two cents worth. Education is important, and some here are over reacting to a proposal that's just meant to help you.

(separated parts that I'm replying to)

One thing that bugs me is that I wanna become an astronomer. An astronomy class would really really help out, but my schoolio don't gots one =( It's probably not all that big though, but it'd still be nice for them to make classes like that.

Hah, an hour and 30 only has a 20-minute difference from how long the classes in my school are. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it has such a high ranking.

Yes, I have to admit an hour or two would be better than three.

Aw.... Yes I that's true too.

As for summer, from how my sophomore and junior years have been going, a big break from school would be pretty decent. My sophomore year was so terrible that my fearing of the next school year is my guess on why my summer seemed to go so fast this year (though I think it was more than just me who felt this summer went way too fast). The forgetting-everything-over-summer part is another reasonable... well.... reason... I guess....... =D

Darn... I have to agree that maybe it'd be good if something were done... I just don't want it to be extreme cause for some reason I just have a feeling that's what Obamanation's going for.

I lose fights way too easily sometimes cause most of the time I can't fight back =/

[Nestling]

Ok, let's see.

If the school days end at 5:00

And call times for football games for marching band are at 5:00.

Dammit.