Florete Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 But that's part of the point from my first response to him. That's not the whole story. They are low on tier lists due to bad bases and growths. And more to the point that's mainly the archers. Briggid is high on some lists. Faval is mid. Klein is upper mid. Innes is B tier on dondon's Sethskip list. I think he's perhaps too low on some of the other tier lists. Shinon in fe10 is rather high. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17121&view=findpost&p=1474673 I even said part of that right there. The part about the start of archers. Snipers are actually all over the place on tier lists. An important word in his question is "else" His question was "why else do you think they are usually low on tier lists?" Doesn't that seem to imply that the only possible reason for this is that Snipers are the worst class? That there couldn't possibly be some other reason that specific units might end up so low on tier lists? In essence, he's attempting to use their position on the tier lists to justify his position that Snipers are the worst class. That's what I have a problem with. The only proof that he supplies, in that particular post, for Snipers being the worst class is their position on tier lists. How is that NOT him saying "low on tier list => worst class"? For the part I bolded in your post, he's basically saying this: "Snipers are the worst class. How do you know? Look at their position on tier lists." He's not proving their tier list position by saying Sniper is a bad class. He's proving Sniper is a bad class by stating their tier list position. That's the opposite of your interpretation. Hm...I may need to analyze this a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) How do you figure that? Obviously Luna wasn't even in FE6, but you agree on Nosferatu. Luna would still be good in FE8, though, and Nosferatu should be very good simply for the fact that it allows self-healing and damage at the same time. What advantages do Sages and Bishops (Staves aside) have? Look how bad Luna is in FE8 - 50 base hit? No way in hell I'm using that. And Nosferatu? If it weren't so darn heavy you'd actually have a point, as I see it. Sages and Bishops have ultimate tomes that don't suck, for one. Bishops also have Slayer in FE8. Though I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one... Edited February 28, 2011 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You have the worst English skills I've seen in a while, then. Also their position on the tier list was never in question. It is your idea they are the worst class. You're too biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I miss Iris, she never talked about FE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I miss Iris, she never talked about FE what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 How do you figure that? Obviously Luna wasn't even in FE6, but you agree on Nosferatu. Luna would still be good in FE8, though, and Nosferatu should be very good simply for the fact that it allows self-healing and damage at the same time. What advantages do Sages and Bishops (Staves aside) have? Well, Thunder is just a better spell than Flux. Stronger, lighter, cheaper, and it has crit. A Sage also has the flexibility to switch up to a Elfire tome (which is lighter and cheaper and more accurate than Nosferatu), or a Fire Tome (for accuracy. Anima S Rank weapons are generally also superior to Dark S Ranks, with Excalibur being definitely better than Gleipnir and Gespenst even if it's comparable to Apocalypse. Light magic is less powerful though, and also pretty heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Rey León Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I miss Iris, she never talked about FE lol You don't know Iris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I wonder how many times people will argue over archers before this forum dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) wat As he completely misses the post after that. @Musashi: I honestly think it'd be safe to say at least a thousand. Edited February 28, 2011 by Reinfleche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You just don't like Megan Fox. She's just one of many reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I wonder how many times people will argue over archers before this forum dies. Holmes made it to lord status despite being an archer and a thief. But since the game is still in Japanese no one wants to play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Holmes made it to lord status despite being an archer and a thief. But since the game is still in Japanese no one wants to play it. He's also a better detective than the local detectives. When he's interested enough, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 He's also a better detective than the local detectives. When he's interested enough, anyway. Also play TearRing Saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Well, Thunder is just a better spell than Flux. Stronger, lighter, cheaper, and it has crit. A Sage also has the flexibility to switch up to a Elfire tome (which is lighter and cheaper and more accurate than Nosferatu), or a Fire Tome (for accuracy. Anima S Rank weapons are generally also superior to Dark S Ranks, with Excalibur being definitely better than Gleipnir and Gespenst even if it's comparable to Apocalypse. Light magic is less powerful though, and also pretty heavy. If you ask me, any tomes above D rank generally weren't worth using in FE7 and FE8, since weights started to get obscene for tomes of C rank and higher. Edited February 28, 2011 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you ask me, any tomes above D rank generally weren't worth using in FE7 and FE8, since weights started to get obscene for tomes of C rank and higher. S rank anima in fe8. Saleh breaks even, and can get +2 speed from either body ring or speed ring. That tome is definitely worth using. Elfire's 10 wt is only -2 AS for him, as well. Ditto Pent. That's not so bad, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 S rank anima in fe8. Saleh breaks even, and can get +2 speed from either body ring or speed ring. That tome is definitely worth using. Elfire's 10 wt is only -2 AS for him, as well. Ditto Pent. That's not so bad, really. You got me on Excalibur, but Elfire's pretty expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I always thought it was unfair how weapon users got Killer weapons and Silver weapons which basically had no downside, while the powerful tomes were all ridiculously heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't think it's unfair when they have powerful 1-2 range :P. Killers are only 1 range or 2 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't think it's unfair when they have powerful 1-2 range :P. Killers are only 1 range or 2 range. Powerful 1-2 range is supposed to make up for shitty defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You got me on Excalibur, but Elfire's pretty expensive... I've never needed to care about $ in these games. Only when I was forging +9 crit on every single forge I made in my first playthrough of fe9 have I ever had a money issue. eg: fe6 I use Aircalibur on just about everything once I can. 85 hit, 8 mt, boosted damage if a flying enemy happens to come buy. Awesome. Who cares if it costs more than Fire, Thunder, Elfire? Or if it costs more than Fire + Thunder combined? And has 35 fewer uses than that combo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I've never needed to care about $ in these games. Only when I was forging +9 crit on every single forge I made in my first playthrough of fe9 have I ever had a money issue. eg: fe6 I use Aircalibur on just about everything once I can. 85 hit, 8 mt, boosted damage if a flying enemy happens to come buy. Awesome. Who cares if it costs more than Fire, Thunder, Elfire? Or if it costs more than Fire + Thunder combined? And has 35 fewer uses than that combo? Hmm... But for how expensive Elfire is in FE7 and FE8, it just isn't better than Thunder, as I see it... Just like Shine and Divine - the latter's ludicrously overpriced, and for what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 lol You don't know Iris. She'd talk about other stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Rey León Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 No, Kai, you stay away from Iris. >8[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ... //sigh El, I'm not like you, I don't fall hopelessly in love with every female I'm friends with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I miss Lumi. Sorry bro. I napped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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