(FE10) Draft playthrough

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Can undrafted characters trade?

And I wonder what everyone thinks about their part 4 team splits.

EDIT:

kirsche has a pretty dynamite team, now.

Yeah, I'm really surprised i got what I have. Especially Ranulf, I was incredibly surprised to see people chosing units like Danved and Ilyana over him. Not that they're not useful, I suppose.

I'm sick of cat gauge.

EDIT2:

Is hoping to kill Ike on 3-13. I'm pretty sure it can be done pretty easily.

Edited November 20, 2009 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Narga_Rocks]

Can undrafted characters trade?

And I wonder what everyone thinks about their part 4 team splits.

I asked that one before and oval said, for example, Leo can run to Micaiah in 1-P and give her the draco shield even if Leo is not among your choices for your team, and not get a penalty.

Of course, on maps where you have no forced characters that aren't on your team, you can't deploy the rest anyway so they wouldn't be able to trade.

It does bring up the interesting question about, for example, Ike using wyrmslayer on a draco in 3-11 and then having Ranulf switch out Ike's wyrmslayer for a vulnerary (forcing the auto-equipping of Ragnell if you have it in the #2 position) thus allowing Ike to have Ragnell for the other enemies that enemy phase. As long as Ranulf doesn't get attacked by any two range enemies, it's fine.

Here's a question, what about Onager? I'd assume if Ranulf or Leanne get hit by it then you get the penalty if they aren't on your team, even if someone that is on your team gets hit by the same shot.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Sorry for lateness guys, I had a power outage. I choose Sanaki.

[Narga_Rocks]

Sorry for lateness guys, I had a power outage. I choose Sanaki.

I wonder:

For chapters like 2-E, 3-3, 3-5, 3-13, anything else that is wicked hard...

Couldn't you allow some other units to be deployed and fight?

+3 turns for the first extra unit deployed. +4 for the second (+7 total), +5 for the third, and so on.

And if they actually fight anything rather than just block ledges, the normal penalty they'd get based on their tier.

Maybe the penalties are a little extreme, but that just encourages people to not attempt the "panic button" solution. If no matter what you do you can't pull it off, hit the panic button. It can be like a 7 turn penalty just for a unit that would normally have a penalty of 4 if it is forced, so it is nothing to rely on, but if you get completely stuck and can't get past 3-13 because the hawks just keep getting by, it would allow someone to finish, albeit at a large penalty.

[RedNeck Holsety]

For 2-E and 3-5 if you are screwed from killing the boss and ending the chapter early Elincia and Ike should just chill with an unequiped weapon on the goal, and in Elincia's case, surrounded by her royal soldiers as meatshields. Thats kinda where picking a good team would have come into play as a main arguement so my personal vote would be no.

For 3-3 if I'm not mistaken, Oval has allowed one free unit for burning, correct me if I'm wrong.

3-13 is a good arguement though. Mabye some indirect meatshields for the reinforcements on turn 7 on 3-13 should be fine. I'll leave it all up to Oval though.

Edited November 20, 2009 by King_Soren

[Defeatist Elitist]

For 2-E and 3-5 if you are screwed from killing the boss and ending the chapter early Elincia and Ike should just chill with an unequiped weapon on the goal, and in Elincia's case, surrounded by her royal soldiers as meatshields. Thats kinda where picking a good team would have come into play as a main arguement so my personal vote would be no.

For 3-3 if I'm not mistaken, Oval has allowed one free unit for burning, correct me if I'm wrong.

3-13 is a good arguement though. Mabye some indirect meatshields for the reinforcements on turn 7 on 3-13 should be fine. I'll leave it all up to Oval though.

Well, I have Elincia and Leanne, so I can just lolAttack Ludveck on first turn. If I remember right you can actually beat the level in 1 turn like that...

[BigMeatyClawz]

Sorry for lateness guys, I had a power outage. I choose Sanaki.

I wonder:

For chapters like 2-E, 3-3, 3-5, 3-13, anything else that is wicked hard...

Couldn't you allow some other units to be deployed and fight?

+3 turns for the first extra unit deployed. +4 for the second (+7 total), +5 for the third, and so on.

And if they actually fight anything rather than just block ledges, the normal penalty they'd get based on their tier.

Maybe the penalties are a little extreme, but that just encourages people to not attempt the "panic button" solution. If no matter what you do you can't pull it off, hit the panic button. It can be like a 7 turn penalty just for a unit that would normally have a penalty of 4 if it is forced, so it is nothing to rely on, but if you get completely stuck and can't get past 3-13 because the hawks just keep getting by, it would allow someone to finish, albeit at a large penalty.

I'm gonna have to say no to this. It adds to many variables and makes the already (poorly) written rules even more confusing.

For 3-3 if I'm not mistaken, Oval has allowed one free unit for burning, correct me if I'm wrong.

3-13 is a good arguement though. Mabye some indirect meatshields for the reinforcements on turn 7 on 3-13 should be fine. I'll leave it all up to Oval though.

You can bring one extra 6 move unit(to prevent everyone from bringing Haar) to 3-3 to help with burning. For 3-13 we're all gonna have to find a way to use the NPCs effectively because I'm not allowing extra units even it they're just gonna block ledges.

[Zkirsche]

Volke please.

Also, are undrafted units allowed to rescue each other? Like, Oscar rescuing Rofl in 3-1?

[Paperblade]

Gareth

[Ether]

Uhh...Bastian.

[BigMeatyClawz]

Astrid and Renning.

Volke please.

Also, are undrafted units allowed to rescue each other? Like, Oscar rescuing Rofl in 3-1?

That's fine as long as undrafted units are rescuing undrafted ones, and not drafted ones.

Edited November 20, 2009 by oval

[Zkirsche]

That's good, I based my choices around doing so.

Edited November 20, 2009 by kirsche

[Ether]

Umm...I'll take Kurthnaga.

[Zkirsche]

Lol, me, King_Soren and Fia all have massive advantages when it comes to 2-P (Especially me :))

Btw, what abotu Janaff/Ulki in 3-7? I'd suggest a penalty of (4) due to flying utility.

I'm sick of cat gauge

It's perfectly doable to just spam olivi grasses after moving, as Rendulf can pwn on enemy phase, where most of the action will happen anyway.

Edited November 20, 2009 by kirsche

[Narga_Rocks]

Lol, me, King_Soren and Fia all have massive advantages when it comes to 2-P (Especially me :))

Marcia and Nealuchi? Yeah. They team up and something dies. It's NM, so she may even be able to KO a wyvern on her own with Javelin EP + Steel Lance PP. I know Marcia (T) can do it on HM, so Marcia (N) can hopefully do so on NM. The boss could be interesting, though.

Weapon triangle disadvantage for Marcia. 27mt for Nealuchi, effectively 25 mt for Marcia. They double, though. Neal causes 12 damage, Marcia causes 8. They combine to 5 round, actually. And Marcia can't pull out Javelin for enemy phase because she'll only do 1x2 damage. Well, that's better than nothing, but the boss will likely attack Nealuchi anyway. This is, of course, part of why I love Leanne for this chapter.

I still remember Elincia stunning the guy on NM. That was funny. Marcia poked him to death (safely) after that happened.

Btw, what abotu Janaff/Ulki in 3-7? I'd suggest a penalty of (4) due to flying utility.

Yeah, every unit not drafted should be permitted for use (with penalty) in maps to which you can't prevent their existence (ie: forced). I suspect that they were just missed, though, and not intentionally left without penalty. Also, reduced penalties because of turns. So Leo should not cost the same as Ed in 1-P, for example. The 4 and 3 points for the LEA in 1-7 is probably fine, of course, despite the need to recruit them mid-chapter. That's because they are so much stronger here than later on.

I'm sick of cat gauge

It's perfectly doable to just spam olivi grasses after moving, as Rendulf can pwn on enemy phase, where most of the action will happen anyway.

And for the player phase action you have Nephinel and Ike. They should both be ORKOing things like snipers so those don't matter as much. And Ranulf may occasionally be able to pull a player phase if you plan ahead. Costs a little enemy phase, but he just needs to hit S in a reasonable amount of time. It isn't as if he'd be getting much in the way of exp while at level 30 (60 while transformed).

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I'm sick of cat gauge

It's perfectly doable to just spam olivi grasses after moving, as Rendulf can pwn on enemy phase, where most of the action will happen anyway.

It's player phase blockage I'm worried about. There should easily be enough olivi grass, but, then again, if Ranulf is attacked 3 times on enemy phase, he's at a net loss of gauge.

I figured Danved/Ilyana would shave off more turns than Ranulf. Something about no 2-range also.

EDIT: If I end up with Lehran or Pelleas, I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to have them on my team. Can you only get them on a 2nd playthrough designated by beating a first one?

Edited November 20, 2009 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Zkirsche]

I'll just target 1-2 range users on the Player phase. Besides, at the point where I chose him, he was easily the best remaining unit in the GM chapters, and I needed someone else for those chapters.

EDIT: If I end up with Lehran or Pelleas, I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to have them on my team. Can you only get them on a 2nd playthrough designated by beating a first one?

Yeah, I've been thinking teh same thing. A quick Easy mode clear, I guess.

Weapon triangle disadvantage for Marcia. 27mt for Nealuchi, effectively 25 mt for Marcia. They double, though. Neal causes 12 damage, Marcia causes 8. They combine to 5 round, actually. And Marcia can't pull out Javelin for enemy phase because she'll only do 1x2 damage. Well, that's better than nothing, but the boss will likely attack Nealuchi anyway. This is, of course, part of why I love Leanne for this chapter.

5 round? It'll only take me 2 player phases with nealuchi alone.

Eh, I still think I have the best team for killing the boss.

Edited November 20, 2009 by kirsche

[BigMeatyClawz]

Okay I added the other penalties for everyone I could think of.

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

Also Fox's post in the FE6 tier topic reminded me to mention that using the LEA as sleep fodder does incur a penalty.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'll just target 1-2 range users on the Player phase. Besides, at the point where I chose him, he was easily the best remaining unit in the GM chapters, and I needed someone else for those chapters.

EDIT: If I end up with Lehran or Pelleas, I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to have them on my team. Can you only get them on a 2nd playthrough designated by beating a first one?

Yeah, I've been thinking teh same thing. A quick Easy mode clear, I guess.

What, nobody has a 4-E save sitting around? Even if you have a transfer, my game (at least) asks me if I want to transfer each time I load clear data anyway. I've seen some people say it doesn't, but I've always seen it. Just make a save with clear data and load it.

Weapon triangle disadvantage for Marcia. 27mt for Nealuchi, effectively 25 mt for Marcia. They double, though. Neal causes 12 damage, Marcia causes 8. They combine to 5 round, actually. And Marcia can't pull out Javelin for enemy phase because she'll only do 1x2 damage. Well, that's better than nothing, but the boss will likely attack Nealuchi anyway. This is, of course, part of why I love Leanne for this chapter.

5 round? It'll only take me 2 player phases with nealuchi alone.

Eh, I still think I have the best team for killing the boss.

You do. Well, tied. The team with Haar ties yours for beating the boss.

I should expand on my point about 5 rounding, though. I didn't mean 5 turns. Neal can enter into 4 rounds to beat him, and 3 rounds of Neal and 1 round of Marcia can also beat him. Since the boss has a short axe, I suspect he will attack at range. This means it is probably best to have Marcia attack the boss too, then have Neal switch Marcia's steel lance to either a javelin or Elincia's slim sword to prevent Marcia getting damaged on enemy phase.

Marcia attacks with steel lance twice (doubles so 4 x 4), Neal attacks on player phase twice (doubles so 6 x 4). That is 40 damage. The boss has 43 hp. Marcia or Neal can now OHKO the boss on the 3rd turn from when the boss was first encountered.

Fia gets lots of opportunities to stun, but Elincia does 1 damage to the boss. 2 normally, max 6. So your team is better than just having Elincia and Leanne.

Haar has 32 mt with a Hand Axe and 4HKOs. So Haar does actually pull off a 1 turn KO thanks to Player Phase + Enemy Phase. So technically Haar's team beats yours.

Of course, the entire point of beating the boss in 2-E is gaining experience. If you choose to do this with Marcia (and find a way to pull it off without her dying), then you probably get the biggest advantage out of that chapter. The exp Haar gets from the victory is not as important for him as the exp for Marcia is for her. Nealuchi gets sweet bugger-all for the kill, probably.

Oh, and penalty for Zihark in 3-E. Also, Naesala does not appear to be forced for 4-3, so he's not permitted (also, no penalty).

Edited November 21, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Defeatist Elitist]

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

First of all, being attacked DOES help complete the chapter, because it indirectly increases the durability of other units. I routinely use a unit I am not going to use with unequipped weapons as a distraction when some of my other units are more frail.

Also, you can fairly easily move your people you didn't pick out of the way/minimize the likelihood they would be attacked. It's simply not fair to the people who chose certain units to do it the other way, as their advantage is practically lost.

[Paperblade]

Grah... I'm gonna have to go with Fiona.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

Yes. Or you could reduce penalties since 5 seems high when compared to some other penalties (2-1 Neph/Brom for example).

You may practically need at least 2 units attacking just so Leanne doesn't get carted off the map.

Edited November 21, 2009 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Narga_Rocks]

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

Yes. Or you could reduce penalties since 5 seems high when compared to some other penalties (2-1 Neph/Brom for example).

You may practically need at least 2 units attacking just so Leanne doesn't get carted off the map.

How aggressive are the enemy units, anyway? I forget placements, but if you can get out of their way on turn 1, would they just ignore you forever? Or if they must attack someone, let it be a 1 range unit and make it attack Marcia or Nealuchi. 1 penalty, enemy dies, the rest leave you alone.

Anyway, maybe 3,4,5,6 should be the penalty for using them. And a straight up 4 for Leanne. So 3 for the first unit, 4 for the second (total of 7), etc, for 2-P. The ones that chose units with low availability (Elincia, Nealuchi, Marcia) are still awarded for that choice, but if you can pull it off with just Nealuchi attacking stuff then the turncount is 11 (technically 12).

I'm serious on the technically thing. Ask the game (at the end). 2-P is 9 turns. Ditto 3-5 (for 3-5: if you don't KO the boss). Well, 11 turns, but my point is 10 +1 turns. Also: Ludveck. Basically, any defend chapter that isn't 1-5, since 1-5 never completes turn 6 (there is no turn 6: Ally Phase).

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

Yes. Or you could reduce penalties since 5 seems high when compared to some other penalties (2-1 Neph/Brom for example).

You may practically need at least 2 units attacking just so Leanne doesn't get carted off the map.

How aggressive are the enemy units, anyway? I forget placements, but if you can get out of their way on turn 1, would they just ignore you forever? Or if they must attack someone, let it be a 1 range unit and make it attack Marcia or Nealuchi. 1 penalty, enemy dies, the rest leave you alone.

Anyway, maybe 3,4,5,6 should be the penalty for using them. And a straight up 4 for Leanne. So 3 for the first unit, 4 for the second (total of 7), etc, for 2-P. The ones that chose units with low availability (Elincia, Nealuchi, Marcia) are still awarded for that choice, but if you can pull it off with just Nealuchi attacking stuff then the turncount is 11 (technically 12).

I'm serious on the technically thing. Ask the game (at the end). 2-P is 9 turns. Ditto 3-5 (for 3-5: if you don't KO the boss). Well, 11 turns, but my point is 10 +1 turns. Also: Ludveck. Basically, any defend chapter that isn't 1-5, since 1-5 never completes turn 6 (there is no turn 6: Ally Phase).

Story-wise, the boss orders the capture of Leanne, so I'm guessing they will be active.

[Narga_Rocks]

For 2-P do you guys think it would be fairer if we only took a penalty if someone counters a hit? Because for those of us that didn't take anyone it would be ridiculous if we get a +20 because everyone got attacked, but they didn't help complete the chapter at all.

Yes. Or you could reduce penalties since 5 seems high when compared to some other penalties (2-1 Neph/Brom for example).

You may practically need at least 2 units attacking just so Leanne doesn't get carted off the map.

How aggressive are the enemy units, anyway? I forget placements, but if you can get out of their way on turn 1, would they just ignore you forever? Or if they must attack someone, let it be a 1 range unit and make it attack Marcia or Nealuchi. 1 penalty, enemy dies, the rest leave you alone.

Anyway, maybe 3,4,5,6 should be the penalty for using them. And a straight up 4 for Leanne. So 3 for the first unit, 4 for the second (total of 7), etc, for 2-P. The ones that chose units with low availability (Elincia, Nealuchi, Marcia) are still awarded for that choice, but if you can pull it off with just Nealuchi attacking stuff then the turncount is 11 (technically 12).

I'm serious on the technically thing. Ask the game (at the end). 2-P is 9 turns. Ditto 3-5 (for 3-5: if you don't KO the boss). Well, 11 turns, but my point is 10 +1 turns. Also: Ludveck. Basically, any defend chapter that isn't 1-5, since 1-5 never completes turn 6 (there is no turn 6: Ally Phase).

Story-wise, the boss orders the capture of Leanne, so I'm guessing they will be active.

Even on HM, the ones on the bottom mostly didn't move until I got closer to them. That's half the map right there. Now, it could be they auto-move at turn 5 or something, and I just always got near them due to aggressiveness. Also, the closer enemies might be an auto-move from earlier, but I just always got in their range to draw them anyway. Actually, I think they might be more aggressive on NM than HM, come to think of it, since I remember dealing with the boss near the top of the map in NM and more in the middle on HM, though it could just be a result of a change in my own tactics. If I had access to my wii and a tv screen I might actually use my part 1 NM save to get there and check the viability of the run and hide strategy. Oh well.