The Last Promise

[Agro]

Couldn't you just secretly give him a custom Fighter class and set his relative class power to 1 (and 2 for a custom Warrior class)? Assuming you still have spare class slots left, of course.

[Miacis]

I hope this doesn't count as continuing the argument? I'll send the other stuff I had to say to Blazer by PM.

Or you could make an item that boosts exp gain. But I'm not sure how hard that would be.

That wouldn't really help more than handing random stat boosters to the player. I'd rather give that to someone else than Sai, since he can barely make use of it. Even Yue would be a better candidate for that.

Plus, the whole "decent axe users come way too late" thing which still doesn't seem to be adressed enough.

Couldn't you just secretly give him a custom Fighter class and set his relative class power to 1 (and 2 for a custom Warrior class)? Assuming you still have spare class slots left, of course.

Actually, that's a pretty good idea right there, if it's doable. If we're supposed to see him as a trainee fighter to justify his horrid starting level, might as well give him one of the boosts that a trainee would have.

(Still doesn't answer the "no early axes", but I guess that one will have to be from Blazer's initiative.)

Is it really that hard to just not use Sai if you don't like his situation, or not play TLP if you don't like the story/mechanics/etc.? If blazer doesn't want to change something about a hack that he spent his own time working on, then I don't see why he'd be obligated to do so just because someone doesn't like something about the game. And you're not obligated to play it if you don't like something about it.

I'm sure that Blazer wouldn't have opened a blog and made topics on several forums about his game if player response wasn't in fact really important to him. I've already played the game in great length, thank you, and I'm sure most people here have. We're just giving our two cents and giving suggestions so that it's more enjoyable for other people to play it. Or for us to replay it later.

Actually, now that I think about it, yes. Yes, we are actually already doing what you're saying. We are not replaying TLP right now because it still has quite a number of flaws that Blazer doesn't want to adress (according to him, because he doesn't have time to go back and change anything).

And since people like to put me up to high standards, you should know that most video game companies ignore people's specific complaints/remarks about details in the game. They don't have the time or other resources to invest in fixing them.

Actually, most video game companies don't do that just because they don't have the technical means to patch their product and aren't still in the process of developping their game, as you are.

But then, you see other guys like, I dunno, the Skullgirls developpers who are ridiculously close to their fans and will answer most feedback you give them, despite being on a much much shorter budget and with much fewer staff than most video companies out there. Heck, I remember having the head developper of the game directly answering in great length all criticism I had about the game. (And most of what I said was incredibly stupid.) Heck, I wasn't even posting that on their forums, or my blog or anything, so he really had no reason to go out of his way and answer.

If you look at developpers who develop for Steam, XBox LIVE, WiiWare and such, they're actually the ones most receptive to feedback, simply because they don't have enough time or people to do research for them. Fans are a blessing when you're a small developper, because they're like a R&D team, except they don't ask you to be paid. In fact, they are the ones paying for it.

So yeah, the video game industry isn't really all that uniformly made of EA Games.

It's a very fascinating field. Harsh, but filled with lots of good people.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Miacis

[Chocolate Kitty]

@Seph, from a purely gameplay perspective it's an okay idea, but due to circumstances I can't just go changing things like that. I'd be betraying the trust/respect of the creator of Asch there, who's a good friend of mine and helped a lot with TLP, which is definitely not worth it.

I'm a little confused by this response(I have been in the past as well when you've used it), I really don't think the creator would(or I guess, should) feel betrayed or something if you decide to modify their character's gameplay. Personality, sure, that's understandable. Regardless, it's still your project, and you have every right to make changes that you see fit. In the end, nothing of the character would change other than the fact that they are no longer pre-promoted.

Regardless, it doesn't hurt to at least ask if you can or notify of the change?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Kitty of Time

[Tamanoir]

I had an idea about the problem with lack of early axe user.

Why not change one of the Cavalier into an axe knight ? Eduardo for example, seems a pretty good candiadate.

The other option is allowing wyvern to use axe. Or change Kevin into an axe knight... You get the idea... (I think making Shuuda a Fighter may cause to much problem....)

I don't think it would change things to much, and it solves this problem perfectly.

This doesn't help Sai, but we can solve both problem separately

[Crimson Red]

@Agro it's possible but that might hurt save data for people who are mid-playthrough (classes don't change)

@Kitty people treat their characters like little babies sometimes, especially if they've been making OCs for a while or are into RPing. Even their classes or inventories can hold some significance to them. If you don't understand the feeling, that's okay, but this is really where you should stop pushing the subject. I could ask him, but even by asking I'd probably get a negative reaction because of that trust I have with the person, meaning yes, there is a negative consequence.

Also, I don't want to change majorly established facts, e.g. "X character is Y class". Not only will it affect save data and require a lot of work (as I said I am not up for major game changes) but it changes the general game too much and at this point when characters, classes, and personalities have been established, it's something I highly frown upon: Kevin's class, Shuuda's class, Eduardo's class, they aren't broken. It's the lack of axe user's that's the issue. Other people would almost definitely react poorly if they like a certain character and their class changed. Just look at how people complained when Eirika changed into a Bride in the FE13 DLC--she can't even use swords. It definitely bothered people. Just not as much because it was explained some what and it wasn't an edit that they made after they already released her, and most of all, they have no way of really contacting IS in Japan and complaining directly.

Anyhow, if you don't agree with my philosophy/reasoning, fine, that's what having an opinion is about, but please keep it to yourself after your initial suggestion or extra "umph" to try and strengthen your argument or else you are just asking for conflict because you aren't willing to back down for whatever obscure reason, and sadly because it seems that some people can't handle discussing such things on this forum, I will ignore you, even if you have good intentions, because now I have to assume the worst that people have no room for reasoning or social skills *shot* *impaled* *lynched* in order to prevent myself from wasting more time on this instead of working on getting the new patch out by April. XP

[Chocolate Kitty]

@Kitty people treat their characters like little babies sometimes, especially if they've been making OCs for a while or are into RPing. Even their classes or inventories can hold some significance to them. If you don't understand the feeling, that's okay, but this is really where you should stop pushing the subject. I could ask him, but even by asking I'd probably get a negative reaction because of that trust I have with the person, meaning yes, there is a negative consequence.

I wasn't aware that by saying such I was pushing a subject. If someone can't deal with such a change, fine. Being afraid to ask him? That;s just silly in my opinion.

Also, I don't want to change majorly established facts, e.g. "X character is Y class". Not only will it affect save data and require a lot of work (as I said I am not up for major game changes) but it changes the general game too much and at this point when characters, classes, and personalities have been established, it's something I highly frown upon: Kevin's class, Shuuda's class, Eduardo's class, they aren't broken. It's the lack of axe user's that's the issue. Other people would almost definitely react poorly if they like a certain character and their class changed. Just look at how people complained when Eirika changed into a Bride in the FE13 DLC--she can't even use swords. It definitely bothered people. Just not as much because it was explained some what and it wasn't an edit that they made after they already released her, and most of all, they have no way of really contacting IS in Japan and complaining directly.

That was because it didn't make any sense to the public, and she's DLC, not a part of the main story. If anyone should have been a bride class, it probably should have been idk, Elincia or something for the sake of the weapons they use. (I'm not really a fan of the class's abilities myself, but that's besides the point).

I would say you can't please everyone, but it's clear you're only trying to please some odd section of people that I don't think even exists. At least not here, maybe on FEShrine. Sure people will be miffed, I think they can sort of learn to live with it? My favorite character in all of FE is Joshua, and he's not obtainable at all in FE13. Am I upset? Not really, because it's not my call to make and I can accept change.

But apparently you're appeasing to the crowd that can't.

On topic, for the axe issue, what if there was a way to separate Shon from the other cavaliers? I'm not saying sword/axe makes any sense plot-wise, looking at Sigurd, but if you changed him into using axes as well, that's be an interesting change. As memory serves, there are no great knights in TLP either, that's another thing you could possibly implement and give that promoted class axes to wield. Wyvern lords with axes is another idea many people have adopted to as well. You could also make Noah not appear in 'Sigurd' mode and instead have Gary(as you said you thought of before) instead. Sigurd's mode has literally no axe users, it's sort of a problem. Or you could make kevin a lance/axe knight(as in allowing him to use axes unpromoted). Actually, that might sort of make up for armored knight's movement imparement.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Kitty of Time

[Juice el Savior]

i honestly feel like gaining an early axe user than asch would make things entirely too easy... shon with an axe... really?

Giving Sai a Dragon Axe is a damn fine suggestion for the map... he cant solo the map, but with an archer and bishop for back up he can level up quite a bit there.

The way the story is framed and the characters are used and implemented, an early axe user makes no sense without detracting to something that is already cemented in stone. Not every FE hack has to follow the "10 commandments of Fire Emblem"

1.)Thou Shalt have a well balanced cast of characters

2.)Thou Shalt have a red AND green cavalier

3.)Thou Shalt have a country bent on world domination

4.)Thou Shalt involve dragons in one way shape or form

5.)Thy Steel Weapons shall be worthless

6.)Thou Shall follow the weapon triangle

7.)All civilians should be weak and cant fend for themselves

8.)Nobody can be a better unit than Hector

9.)Gaiden Chapters must be included

10.)Jeigan must be implemented

[Miacis]

That was because it didn't make any sense to the public, and she's DLC, not a part of the main story. If anyone should have been a bride class, it probably should have been idk, Elincia or something for the sake of the weapons they use. (I'm not really a fan of the class's abilities myself, but that's besides the point).

Not to mention, Eirika is a canon main character from an official game that released already 8 years ago (omigosh, I feel old, now).

TLP has been out for half that time, and most importantly, is still a fangame in development.

Not really comparable, there. .-.

I would say you can't please everyone, but it's clear you're only trying to please some odd section of people that I don't think even exists. At least not here, maybe on FEShrine. Sure people will be miffed, I think they can sort of learn to live with it? My favorite character in all of FE is Joshua, and he's not obtainable at all in FE13. Am I upset? Not really, because it's not my call to make and I can accept change.

This, pretty much.

The way the story is framed and the characters are used and implemented, an early axe user makes no sense without detracting to something that is already cemented in stone. Not every FE hack has to follow the "10 commandments of Fire Emblem"

I don't really think anyone cares about those commandments, most of those being actually quite very wrong. They're rooting for that change because it makes the game more interesting and varied. People would have said the same thing if there had been no mages, no archers, or no healers until Anakin's road. It's just not a very good design decision when the entire FE engine is rooted in weapon diversity.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Miacis

[Juice el Savior]

i want to agree about the change thing, but other than staying traditional with keeping an early axe user in the game... what is the point?

The game is completely manageable and playable without an axe user until you get them, even then... they arent necessary.

Other than the sake of keeping things like other FE games i dont see the point in the high demand of an early axe user.

Is anyone seriously having that much trouble without one?

[izanagi61]

it's that the game isn't playable without one but, more that they'd be more useful earlier. from the point that you get units like sai and mark, you start to run into a variety of units where their abilities as an axe locked unit, are diminished. in the earlier maps however, theres more lance units allowing for easier leveling so that when you get to these harder, later maps, your axemen are promoted or close to it so they have better weapon levels and access to other weapons via promotion so they can handle situations better that they would otherwise do poorly in. at least that's how i see it.

[Juice el Savior]

it's that the game isn't playable without one but, more that they'd be more useful earlier. from the point that you get units like sai and mark, you start to run into a variety of units where their abilities as an axe locked unit, are diminished. in the earlier maps however, theres more lance units allowing for easier leveling so that when you get to these harder, later maps, your axemen are promoted or close to it so they have better weapon levels and access to other weapons via promotion so they can handle situations better that they would otherwise do poorly in. at least that's how i see it.

i can agree with all that, but with that being said... its just not necessary in the game.

Gary will outshine anyone no matter what when you get him so they should be benched by then.

From someone who has never even TRIED HHM or 2 star insane in FE:SD ... this game isnt that difficult. Yes the 24/25 caught me off guard but according to the story and the plot it should have anyways.

Its just my opinion but an early axe user would honestly negate all of the difficulty the game can throw at you.

[Miacis]

i want to agree about the change thing, but other than staying traditional with keeping an early axe user in the game... what is the point?

Having a physical non-prepromote unit who can deal effectively with lance users.

This nice little thing they call Variety.

The game is completely manageable and playable without an axe user until you get them, even then... they arent necessary.

If the only thing that mattered was "necessity", then you could pretty much remove a good 3/4 of the cast and still manage the game. And one of the first guys to take the boot would probably be Sai himself, actually, which is why people have suggested to find way to make him less unusable.

Gary will outshine anyone no matter what when you get him so they should be benched by then.

According to that logic, I should have benched Mareeta/Asvel at the end of Thracia 776, when Galzus/Sety joined the team. I wonder why that didn't happen?

Not to mention, Gary is there for like 3 chapters, so I don't really see why his "shine" sudddenly makes axe users unnecessary in the first 90% of the game

Its just my opinion but an early axe user would honestly negate all of the difficulty the game can throw at you.

Throwing Siegfried or Noah at lance users instead of an axe user (the guys who are made for that exact purpose) is not really what I would call "difficulty". Just a way to short-circuit strategy as a whole.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Miacis

[Crimson Red]

Supports conversations are fully inserted and seem to be working. This leaves only a few more things before the open betatest is ready. I have NOT tested most support conversations in-game though so most of them probably don't work, keep that in mind.

A video, since I haven't uploaded one in a while/haven't really actively uploaded videos in ages.

[ThisProfileNoLongerUsed]

I have to agree with Micais on this one. By the time you get to Chapter 20, a lot of your units will be above Level 10, mostly around in the 12-15's right about then. By then, you have only two axe-users, Asch and Mark, going against a whole squad of wyvern knights (that also faster then both the two). I find that putting Sai in an earlier chapter will help him be better against them.

But there comes the question, "Why not use Mark or Asch?" Well, in the case that they both die prior to Chapter 20, you're left with an under-powered, under-leveled axe-user that could barely manage to hit the much-faster-than-you wyverns. You'd think that with an axe-user going up against lance-users that he would have an advantage, but he doesn't. Sai basically becomes cannon fodder for the enemies because he can't hit them and he's not strong enough to do noticeable damage. Hell, even the Dark Mage guy (forgot his name) could do better than Sai.

My suggestion: Either give him a Dragon Axe on Chapter 20, or move him to an earlier chapter.

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

Oh! I don't know if this bug has been reported yet, but when you attack with Frederick, the weapon he used will lower his rank to A. This is from the initial release last year.

[Crimson Red]

Yeah I actually thought about this recently when I saw his rank in my video earlier today/last night. I haven't really gotten to use Frederick much myself, sadly, so it didn't dawn on me--thank you, I can't believe no one spoke up (IIRC) about it 'till now. I'll either have to figure out what Athos and Nergal do or just lower one or even both (since the player might feel in lowering only one they can't choose which weapon type gets to be S rank).

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

They can choose which one gets S rank, technically. All you have to do is attack with an axe if you want an S rank in lances, and vice versa for S rank in axes.

[M'Goltan]

Hi Blazer, just wanna start by saying: I really love this hack.

With that aside, I wanted to know something that's been bugging me for a while. The song you use, 'A Moment's Rest'. Where exactly is it from? Because I'm almost sure I've heard it before, but can't place it.

As I've said, really love the hack and am looking forward to the open Beta, thanks in advance.

[Crimson Red]

^Heroes of Mana:

@Gabriel true, but it's slightly inconvenient in that it may be better to use an axe instead of a lance due to the WTA but if one wants the axe S rank then they have to attack with lances and risk taking more damage

[Rambo M]

Oh god, that track. Could you cut the volume down on that to a point where it isn't screeching loud? My eardrums will thank you ;_;

Edited March 30, 2013 by Rambo M

[Mysticblade]

If there's any track to complain about, it isn't A Moments Rest, but instead Lightning. Good thing changing volumes within certain extent is super quick on VBA but Lightning is still way too loud. It's a minor nitpick that wouldn't be really worth the effort to fix but it's there.

[Crimson Red]

@Lightning while I do agree and this is not an excuse I think it may have a lot to do with the original song. I'm also not interested in trying to fix it since it'd be a somewhat large pain to find the notes that hit the red-zone in the sound room's volume mixer or w/e and in general my perfectionism isn't kicking in so I'm going to let it slide :P. Appreciate the comment though.

@Rambo yeah it actually used to be worse but I think it still needs some toning down. I might have to go back and re-insert it from scratch yet again (I think it'd make it my 3rd time). I'm not really interested in doing it now though so I'll mark it in the open beta issue reports doc and tackle it with any other similar problems since there might be some complaints on the other songs and it's more efficient to handle it all at once. In the mean time... I guess you're stuck cringing *shot*

Speaking of the open beta, if anyone's interested...

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

When I played the release last year, Delusional Extremities was completely demolished. What happened? The midi is really good, but in the game it's pretty bad. I'm interested in the technical reasons why it dropped in quality.

[Crimson Red]

The game limits you to about 7 tracks in practical terms (in FE, it's technically 8 I think, and according to someone else the max limit is 10 I think).

I simply can't fit complicated songs in their true glory even in MIDI form. Inserting songs alone only takes like, 5 minutes really. But editing it to get it to sound decent can take 20-30 minutes or even hours. I've had to actually trash a song multiple times because I couldn't get them to work.

I'm so glad that once I'm done hacking I won't have to deal with this crap. Full quality MP3's tyvm

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

I see, thanks for answering!