Pairings!

[Momo]

Yep, I read it. His fe9 one is nothing, as for his RD one in 4-E-5, I can't find it on this site now, though I've read it before. I can't see how you can call that proof of more than friendship. Anyway, an interesting point is that Ike doesn't even have a unique support convo in RD for Soren. I'm serious:

Care to explain that one away? He has a unique for a couple of characters, like Oliver and Caineghis. Is he gay for them, too?

Irrelivant, as he has an ending with Soren and only Soren, in which they go away together.

Right, because any two males that go anywhere together are gay. Therefore Lloyd x Zelos are gay when they go off together at the end of TOS. Lloyd and Genis are gay together. Lloyd and Regal are gay together. Lloyd was a mega perv when going off with Presea, considering she has the body of a child and is actually almost twice his age.

Question: Did you play the second game? The way they talk about it, Lloyd was pretty fucking gay when I made him pick Zelos. Using this as proof though is meaningless, considering ToS is probably the worst story ever written.

(oh and Presea seems like the kind of girl you'd want to be around after 10 years of aging B) )

Which isn't the same as Soren being Ike's gay lover. Sure, they've got a close friendship and all, but that's not the same as what is being implied by others.

So Ike goes off with Soren to god knows where. Who does he want to bang? Ellencia. That makes sense.

[Anouleth]

Anouleth, your gamefaqs sig has me saying "Thus, Edward > Haar." This is not the first time I've done something like this. Of course, in that topic the TC basically asked people to hype Edward, or something like that. This one wasn't on request. I assume you were calling my Ike = half-alien theory silly, rather than calling the Ike = gay theory silly. I suppose you could have been speaking of the latter, though.

I sigged it because I thought it was funny. It's rare that something on GFAQs actually makes me laugh, so I sigged it. And I get the impression here that you are using a strawman argument rather than anything else.

And the Ike = alien theory is silly. Ike = Gay may not have much evidence to back it up, but the evidence exists, and it is possible even if it's not particularly likely.

[Chalis]

Which isn't the same as Soren being Ike's gay lover. Sure, they've got a close friendship and all, but that's not the same as what is being implied by others.

Even a statement from the makers about Ike being gay for Soren would get a response of "Then you implemented it badly" from me.

Depending on the person, relationships and love are defined in a variety of ways and we're obviously not going to go into that. Not for pixelated, fictional characters at least.

All that I'm trying to say is that IkeSoren is more realistic and likely than IkeElincia.

The developers did a great job at 'it's up to the player to decide the irrelevant.'

[Narga_Rocks]

Irrelivant, as he has an ending with Soren and only Soren, in which they go away together.

You seem to be missing something important here. Have you ever, I don't know, gotten Ike x Ranulf to an A support in RD?

Question: Did you play the second game? The way they talk about it, Lloyd was pretty fucking gay when I made him pick Zelos. Using this as proof though is meaningless, considering ToS is probably the worst story ever written.

(oh and Presea seems like the kind of girl you'd want to be around after 10 years of aging B) )

I played the second game and I watched all the alternate convos on YouTube. I don't see what you are seeing. Maybe I have an easier time seeing two men have the capacity to have a real true friendship without needing to be gay than you do. Who knows?

So Ike goes off with Soren to god knows where. Who does he want to bang? Ellencia. That makes sense.

How do you spell that so badly when her name is littered all over this topic and is readily available on the RD page under base stats, growths, recruitment, and a bunch of other links?

Anyway, maybe he left because he didn't want to face Elincia married to another guy? Personally, I never bothered to think about why he might have left. There is no logical reason for him to leave. The Elincia getting hitched with Geoffrey thing makes as much sense as anything else, although Ike leaving even when they don't get hitched seems problematic for that theory. I suppose Elincia has to marry somebody to continue the Royal Line, so he could just leave whenever she marries any douche. Also, Ike is perfectly willing to go off on his own, so clearly he's not dependent on Soren or Ranulf. I wouldn't consider that proof, but if you want to grasp at straws then go ahead. I don't know if you need this for some reason, so if you need Ike to be gay for Soren then I'll stop trying to ruin if for you with silly things like logic.

All that I'm trying to say is that IkeSoren is more realistic and likely than IkeElincia.

And without RD I could make that statement the other direction quite easily. The designers clearly don't have internal consistency in mind when doing any of this, so I don't think we should try making any conclusions about this.

The developers did a great job at 'it's up to the player to decide the irrelevant.'

That's fine and all, but what I said was if they issued a statement saying "Ike is gay for Soren", I'd say they didn't do a good job of showing it. As you said, they left it up to the player, so they can't really make a new declaration and expect us to buy it.

I sigged it because I thought it was funny. It's rare that something on GFAQs actually makes me laugh, so I sigged it. And I get the impression here that you are using a strawman argument rather than anything else.

And the Ike = alien theory is silly. Ike = Gay may not have much evidence to back it up, but the evidence exists, and it is possible even if it's not particularly likely.

Yeah, Ed > Haar was meant to be funny. As for here, I wouldn't quite call it a strawman. I'm not posting a simplistic or altered version of the Ike x Soren = gay argument so that I can refute it. I am claiming that their theory has no more evidence than mine, which is something that appears to be in dispute because some people seem to think that Ike x Soren has lots of evidence (whereas my theory obviously has nothing to back it up). It's something, I'll give you that, and my Ike = half-alien theory is certainly quite ludicrous, but I tend to think that the Ike = gay for Soren theory is also ludicrous.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Chalis]

And without RD I could make that statement the other direction quite easily. The designers clearly don't have internal consistency in mind when doing any of this, so I don't think we should try making any conclusions about this.

That's fine and all, but what I said was if they issued a statement saying "Ike is gay for Soren", I'd say they didn't do a good job of showing it. As you said, they left it up to the player, so they can't really make a new declaration and expect us to buy it.

But they did make RD, they planned on making RD with intent of more fleshing out of PoR, and Soren just happens to be one of the most developed character in Path of Radiance who's soul purpose in life is being by Ike's side. This statement means that they had some sort of plan, considering all the other crap that went on in PoR.

Sure it's not conclusive, but its a strong theory that actually can be supported.

I'm glad we could agree on this end.

EDIT: Better.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Chalis

[Momo]

You seem to be missing something important here. Have you ever, I don't know, gotten Ike x Ranulf to an A support in RD?

Don't have the game, all I've heard is that Ike's only got an ending with Soren.

I played the second game and I watched all the alternate convos on YouTube. I don't see what you are seeing. Maybe I have an easier time seeing two men have the capacity to have a real true friendship without needing to be gay than you do. Who knows?

Lloyd says something along the lines of "After this is all done, we're going to go away together" can you really not see the gayness? This is ToS, a game that isn't subtle in the least.

How do you spell that so badly when her name is littered all over this topic and is readily available on the RD page under base stats, growths, recruitment, and a bunch of other links?

Harping on spelling? I think you're taking this too seriously. You're arguing against a video game character's sexuality here.

Anyway, maybe he left because he didn't want to face Elincia married to another guy? Personally, I never bothered to think about why he might have left. There is no logical reason for him to leave. The Elincia getting hitched with Geoffrey thing makes as much sense as anything else, although Ike leaving even when they don't get hitched seems problematic for that theory. I suppose Elincia has to marry somebody to continue the Royal Line, so he could just leave whenever she marries any douche. Also, Ike is perfectly willing to go off on his own, so clearly he's not dependent on Soren or Ranulf. I wouldn't consider that proof, but if you want to grasp at straws then go ahead. I don't know if you need this for some reason, so if you need Ike to be gay for Soren then I'll stop trying to ruin if for you with silly things like logic.

so it's logical to pair Ike with Elincia (happy I spelled it right? better be) even though he shows no interest in her, while illogical to do so with people he actually has endings with.. hmm... I don't care at all about people liking Ike x Elincia, but saying Ike x Soren has no proof is just ridiculous.

And without RD I could make that statement the other direction quite easily. The designers clearly don't have internal consistency in mind when doing any of this, so I don't think we should try making any conclusions about this.

Sure why not

[shadowofchaos]

Aww, they don't have chapter scripts? :<

Well... I'm still asking VincentASM about that script for when they meet Sanaki in FE9... since he DOES have the JPN version of PoR... and he's the only one I know ._.

I still want to know if he really DID forget to call Elincia by her honorific when talking to Sanaki like in the English version ._.

Though, that's hardly really evidence though... XD

I'm just curious...

[-Cynthia-]

And the Ike = alien theory is silly. Ike = Gay may not have much evidence to back it up, but the evidence exists, and it is possible even if it's not particularly likely.

This sums up my views on the matter. There is evidence, that is inconclusive, that says Ike likes guys, girls, both, or neither, so whatever you want to pick is really fine. My issue is with people who say that the canon states a particular direction definitively.

Edited March 6, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Rewjeo]

It could be evidence if it's missing in the Japanese one, though. In English, we can just say that the translators messed up, but in Japan, the script writers forgetting an honorific is really quite laughable.

[Chalis]

Well... I'm still asking VincentASM about that script for when they meet Sanaki in FE9... since he DOES have the JPN version of PoR... and he's the only one I know ._.

I just wanted to check how Senerio interacted with people. It's quite interesting how even one line's context can change with localization. (I really only wanted to see chapter 4 data.)

[Junkhead]

Ike went from scrawny to completely buff in 3 years' time.

Ike had muscles in FE9, he even bears 9 Con...which is quite big for a guy his age, if you look closely you can see his arm is pretty buff.

[Stahl]

I didn't mean to cause such a debate over Ike's sexuality. Honestly, I really couldn't care less if he's gay, straight, bi, asexual, or whatnot, because his sexuality has no bearing on his masculinity. With RD's fail support convos, I guess his sexual preference is pretty much stuck in limbo.

TL;DR: IS did it for the lulz

[Anacybele]

Ike had muscles in FE9, he even bears 9 Con...which is quite big for a guy his age, if you look closely you can see his arm is pretty buff.

Plus Ike clearly wields Ragnell with one hand in both games.

I think now we can safely clarify that Ike's been building his muscles for more than just three years. :P

so it's logical to pair Ike with Elincia (happy I spelled it right? better be) even though he shows no interest in her, while illogical to do so with people he actually has endings with.. hmm... I don't care at all about people liking Ike x Elincia, but saying Ike x Soren has no proof is just ridiculous.

I've said this a thousand times already: Ike does show interest in her, he just makes it less obvious than Elincia makes her crush on him. Which is not surprising, because Ike hardly knows a mother's love (because he barely remembers his mother), let alone romantic love. Narga is right. It makes complete sense for Ike to suddenly decide to leave Tellius because the woman he loved married someone else.

I also think it's silly for people to say IkexSoren has proof when it does not. In fact, no pairing has complete proof unless the game specifically says the pair love one another and marry (like the paired endings) or the developers say later the pair got together. And neither of these is the case for Ike and Soren. I also have yet to be given any real evidence pointing towards it.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Momo]

I also think it's silly for people to say IkexSoren has proof when it does not. In fact, no pairing has complete proof unless the game specifically says the pair love one another and marry (like the paired endings) or the developers say later the pair got together. And neither of these is the case for Ike and Soren. I also have yet to be given any real evidence pointing towards it.

You mean like how Ellenah and Geoffery get married and Ike and Soren go off together?

[Anacybele]

You mean like how Ellenah and Geoffery get married and Ike and Soren go off together?

That's not evidence. Soren can merely be a travel buddy for Ike. Not a lover. Elincia and Geoffrey's marriage has nothing to do with this.

Plus, Ranulf can go with Ike too. Does that automatically mean they're in love too? No.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Momo]

so essentially you're putting your fingers in your ears going "lalalalalalalala"

[Anacybele]

so essentially you're putting your fingers in your ears going "lalalalalalalala"

No. You really have no idea how to debate, do you?

I think you don't want to admit you're wrong.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Chalis]

No. You really have no idea how to debate, do you?

I think you don't want to admit you're wrong.

There is nothing to debate over if you just ignore the other side's argument.

Though here's one point I can toss in.

8. Ike does not reminisce fondly about meeting Elincia. I think Ike mentions remembering when he met Elincia at some point, but it wasn't that fond kind of memory he had in the Ike/Soren base convo, it was more like "oh yeah, we found you on the road that time, yeah I remember that" rather than "I turned to face the forest's entrance... and there, a boy with black hair had collapsed. He looked about the same age as me, and he looked half-dead too, and I was so worked up at the injustice of it that I gave him my lunch."

I've said this a thousand times already: Ike does show interest in her, he just makes it less obvious than Elincia makes her crush on him. Which is not surprising, because Ike hardly knows a mother's love (because he barely remembers his mother), let alone romantic love.

This is a stretch. Where and when exactly does Ike show his interest?

Narga is right. It makes complete sense for Ike to suddenly decide to leave Tellius because the woman he loved married someone else.

When did the game explicitly say that Ike was in love with anyone?

I also think it's silly for people to say IkexSoren has proof when it does not. In fact, no pairing has complete proof unless the game specifically says the pair love one another and marry (like the paired endings) or the developers say later the pair got together. And neither of these is the case for Ike and Soren. I also have yet to be given any real evidence pointing towards it.

There is no conclusive proof. There are only theories backed up by supports (literally) as it is up to the player to decide.

@Bold: Need I remind you, there is not a shred of proof for IkeElincia, either? That IkeElincia has no paired ending? That IkeSoren does? (Ranulf's paired end says nothing about Ike, just that he was interested in the new lands, while Soren's paired ending does mention Ike. In fact, Soren's normal ending still mentions Ike.)

[Inui]

Ike x Soren makes perfect sense to me.

[shadowofchaos]

Ike x Soren makes perfect sense to me.

This made me flat out lol XD

It's simple: IS wanted to give in to fangirl demands

No seriously, the amount of attention the two receive, really did make me think "yaoi" pairing... I'm all for the hero and princess pairing deal.. but if you take things at face value, even my friend's little sister who had NEVER played the game, said something about those two liking each other a lot ._.

Not that it has anything to do with any of the arguments, but if someone could be "objective" in way like that and point out that Ike and Soren like each other a little too much for just friendship... then IS surrendering to fangirl pairings could be be a definite POSSIBLITY...

Which is just all the more funny to me XD

Edited March 8, 2010 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

There is nothing to debate over if you just ignore the other side's argument.

But I wasn't ignoring it.

This is a stretch. Where and when exactly does Ike show his interest?

I've mentioned this over and over too. The way he lets her hold his hand close to her at the end of the game, the way he has a lot of time alone with her (and he seems to enjoy it), and other characters can sense his feelings too, apparently. Ranulf is one of them, and we know he has a good intellect (since he figured out who the Black Knight of all people really was). When Shinon accused Ike of being in love with Elincia, Ike quickly changed the subject. He said absolutely nothing about it and made no reaction, as if he wanted to hide the truth. Ike also exploded at Sanaki, an empress of all things, for Elincia's sake and her sake alone. He was angrier than he'd ever been before. Lastly, there's the quote shadowofchaos posted from their A support, which clearly hints that Ike would die for her. That sounded pretty romantic, imo.

When did the game explicitly say that Ike was in love with anyone?

I meant if he really did love a woman. Not that it actually happened.

There is no conclusive proof. There are only theories backed up by supports (literally) as it is up to the player to decide.

Exactly. Which means there's no proof for Ike/Soren either. And just because someone's ending mentions another character doesn't mean those two characters are in love. Ranulf's normal ending mentions Skrimir, for example, but obviously those two are not into each other.

@Bold: Need I remind you, there is not a shred of proof for IkeElincia, either? That IkeElincia has no paired ending? That IkeSoren does? (Ranulf's paired end says nothing about Ike, just that he was interested in the new lands, while Soren's paired ending does mention Ike. In fact, Soren's normal ending still mentions Ike.)

See above.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Dat Nick]

Volug/Nailah is pretty win imo

[General Spoon]

Can we not start something stupid like a fucking shipping war? Please?

[Chalis]

The past few pages feel like a waste.

I just read some of the script for RD. I'm never getting that game.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Damn, shitstorm over Ike pairings, who would've known?