FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[Inui]

I showed that the cost was an issue with some empirical evidence, and even disregarding all that, Farina still sucks when she joins and has little leeway for improvement. If she joined on turn 1 in chapter 25, I would be fine with assuming that she gained EXP to get out of a rut, but she doesn't; she joins 2-3 turns on the opposite end of the map before the chapter ends and hardly gets the opportunity to see combat.

Someone else posted that there's a 20k allowance per unit before taking into account arena winnings, Silver Card abuse, and other things that are possible. That's evidence right there about Funds being a joke rank. 20k per unit...without the Silver Card, arena winnings, and other things. The Silver Card makes all cash worth double its value. That's pretty substantial.

She potentially gains 4 levels in 2 turns. Go try it out. Fly her there with two Javelins, use a Pure Water on the way, and then attack the Bishop with a Javelin equipped. She should be gaining 4 levels (I had her gain 5) in 2-3 turns from killing the Bishop and having the Monks attack her. These levels make her usable in the next chapter and her getting EXP is good for the Experience rank.

If the priority is simply transport or enemy phase positioning, then the 3 character turns are well worth it. It would have taken another player phase for Lyn to get to where she would have been dropped, and by then it would have been too late for her to do whatever the player wanted her to do.

In that case, yes.

However, how many of those cases exist in the game, especially where Lyn is the unit of worth?

[Colonel M]

Because Inui has not sufficiently proven that Funds Rank is a joke rank, even though I have narrated many times that the 30K ordeal (what each unit got) was preventing her from being recruited in the first place, I have decided to ban any discussion of "Farina Rising". Period. The end.

She's worse than units way above her on the tier list? Wow. Really? Thank you for proving things we already know, that Farina is worse than those units. I never once said she's as good as them. I think she's better than Karel, Jaffar, Nino, etc. and DEFINITELY NOT THE 4TH WORST UNIT IN THE ENTIRE GAME, and that's it.

Hmm... doesn't my post look familiar?

Something like your first statement in this post...?

Furthermore Heath, Fiora, and Florina don't cost a dime.

Are you the one that needs their eyes checked? I said the Warp idea was retarded and I undid it. Almost any unit would be raped badly by 6 Berserkers with varying weapons showing up. They aren't warped in there at all. They get some early kills to boost their Evd quickly and easily while they are near a Physic user and continue onward after they get more Evd and they are fine. They can also carry Elixirs with them. There are pillars in other places as they progress onward.

I do not see any mention of you saying Warp is a bad idea.

Guess what? That's still three character turns at minimum, which is what I said. Florina's turn is eaten. Kent's turn is eaten. When Lyn is dropped, she still can't do anything, so that's another wasted turn. I was 100% right. As usual. Three character turns must be devoured to do this.

"Because eating three character turns with rescuing and having halved Skl/Spd is awesome."

Looks more like 50%.

Dang, more elitism and insults and trolling instead of debating. What a surprise out of Serenes Forest debaters! Stop being a condescending jackass as if you're in my league with this game. Save it for scrubs. Or better yet, nobody.

Oh the irony...

Even if you think you were being sarcastic, you were right.

I should bow down to your elite self. I am unworthy.

Denting what? What don't you understand about Funds being a joke? You are swimming in cash. An unpromoted unit must use 17 Silver Lances before going over their 30k allowance. That's not happening. Even unpromoted units are not using up their whole allowance, and fielding promoted units increases the cash you can use by a lot. Farina's cost is a very minor point against her. That is obvious now. Removing the HUGE MASSIVE UNFAIR PENALTY you give her for the cost, she's definitely better than Karel and Jaffar, as shown.

Jaffar and Karel doesn't cost 30K to exist.

I always have proof. You, and others here, just love to totally ignore things frequently.

A lot of the logic in here was flawed (20/17 Marcus. Rich.)

Here there was no proof that Hardin's Str growth is that much worse than Kain and Abel's. FE3 Player even responded to it with the correct statement.

Here there is no statistical evidence that Lowen's Offense is actually worse than Sain and Kent's. Also lol @ Oswin.

The logic in here might as well be broken. We're comparing Karel to a Low Mid / Bottom tier unit, not to someone like Pent.

A Debate From a Long Ass Time Ago. Wooooooooow... Hey did you know I did a debate with Dolph vs. Catria and I won with Dolph?

Nice Proof BTW

Your Elitism Deserves a Medal of Honor

Lucius > Isadora is obvious within that debate

How is 17 Atk @ 20/1 w/Serra "good"? Her Magic is terrible.

A convo between you and Solide with no proof about Lyn:

Inui says (12:46 AM):

is isadora a tier above lyn?

Solid says (12:46 AM):

yeah Isadora is massively underrated

Inui says (12:46 AM):

thought so

Solid says (12:46 AM):

I mean

Lyn is fail

I wouldn't even put her at top of low

she just fails too much

With the Body Ring and promoting, 10/6 Canas has 9 AS. I know for a fact this doubles things, and 10/7 comes eerily close to hitting 10. This also gives 11 AS with Luna.

Rofl @ advocating a 15 + 1 Support

Heaven Seal comes free. Farina does not.

Rebecca is underrated because she lacks Enemy Phase

You just stated why Lyn was special. Oh, and I added 32X to that. ^_^

I'm going to stop. If that doesn't prove anything, I don't know what does.

Correct, you can do this with Lyn, but the Assassins possess a class bonus for their EXP, so they trump Lyn massively. Better yet, let's save Guy or Raven for this instead, since they are way better at it than Lyn in every aspect. Too bad they are still much worse at it than the Assassins due to not getting 100 EXP per kill.

If she's at 20/1 and these Berserkers are over Level 10, she's fine for quite some time. She can just sit on a pillar with her h4x Supports and her h4x offense with the Killing Edge. Did you know that she has 60 base Crit with A Florina / B Kent? Cya later Berserker!

Edited February 18, 2010 by Colonel M

[Life]

Oh. My. God.

If Hypo's ass isn't bleeding after that massive RAEP RAEP RAEP post, I don't know what to think.

[frat_tastic]

EDIT: Whoops, already done.

So.....what now?

EDIT AGAIN!!!!!!:

Actually, what about Louise up above Rebecca? Offhand she doesn't completely blow when she joins, and has an auto-A. Plus no promo cost, blah blah blah. I haven't looked at it like at all, but what does everyone else think?

Edited February 18, 2010 by frat_tastic

[-Cynthia-]

Rebecca can add quite a bit to the Exp rank.

So can Wil I guess, but Rebecca is less terrible because at least she doubles eventually.

[Colonel M]

EDIT: Whoops, already done.

So.....what now?

EDIT AGAIN!!!!!!:

Actually, what about Louise up above Rebecca? Offhand she doesn't completely blow when she joins, and has an auto-A. Plus no promo cost, blah blah blah. I haven't looked at it like at all, but what does everyone else think?

Continue with Jaffar vs. Vaida. I do think that Vaida's mobility advantage is pretty good in VoD, but I would not think she's terrible in C31 either. I think the thing is Jaffar, while existing in CoD, has issues with all the Mages that troll the place. He at least is decent in Night of Farewells and doesn't do bad for the rest of the time (it's debatable). With him being an Assassin he can at least stand a chance at boosting the EXP rank.

I think Jaffar > Vaida can be bought. Now the question is Jaffar and Karel up or Vaida down?

EDIT: Didn't notice your edit. Lol.

Hm... Louise comes practically free of charge while Rebecca is forced for a couple of chapters, pretty terrible for quite some time, then gets "okay". Helping the EXP rank is something to consider, I guess.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Colonel M

[frat_tastic]

Is there a tiers worth of difference between them? If so, then both- Vaida to top of low, Karel/Jaffar to bottom of lower mid.

[-Cynthia-]

I would personally go with Vaida down, since I can buy Lyn/Isadora >Vaida than Karel/Jaffar> Lyn/Isadora.

I don't think there's a tier between them, considering Vaida's leads on terrain heavy maps.

Edited February 18, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Florete]

Stop being a condescending jackass as if you're in my league with this game.

Wow, that's like saying "Stop fucking swearing."

Hey Inui, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe...you could be wrong?

inb4solidandcatsagreewithme

[Colonel M]

Is there a tiers worth of difference between them? If so, then both- Vaida to top of low, Karel/Jaffar to bottom of lower mid.

I doubt it's a tier difference. Flight utility is pretty useful in VoD and there's enough slots for her to participate. Guess she does "okay" in C31 as well (I don't think she's in major threat of dying to Snipers thanks to x2 coefficient instead of x3).

inb4solidandcatsagreewithme

They don't agree with Inui though. They're defending Lowen instead of Inui's stance that Lowen is definitely worse than Sain and Kent (offensively vs. Sain he's not great, but Kent he's marginally close to him).

Edited February 18, 2010 by Colonel M

[Florete]

They don't agree with Inui though. They're defending Lowen instead of Inui's stance that Lowen is definitely worse than Sain and Kent (offensively vs. Sain he's not great, but Kent he's marginally close to him).

I thought this was about Isadora/Lyn/Jaffar/Karel/Farina/notLowen.

[frat_tastic]

Agreed. I guess the question is are Karel/Jaffar in the same tier as Lyn/Isadora? I don't really know. Isadora and Lyn have availability, Lyn has exp. rank, but Karel and Jaffar are arguably better than either when they exist, and Jaffar can help with the exp. rank.

Offhand I'd say it should look like this

Lyn

Isadora

Low

Jaffar

Karel

Vaida

[Colonel M]

I thought this was about Isadora/Lyn/Jaffar/Karel/Farina/notLowen.

Oh. Sorry about that.

Agreed. I guess the question is are Karel/Jaffar in the same tier as Lyn/Isadora? I don't really know. Isadora and Lyn have availability, Lyn has exp. rank, but Karel and Jaffar are arguably better than either when they exist, and Jaffar can help with the exp. rank.

Offhand I'd say it should look like this

Lyn

Isadora

Low

Jaffar

Karel

Vaida

Seems fine. Any objections?

[Life]

Hey Inui, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe...you could be wrong?

Naw, bet he hasn't.

Seriously, I'm getting back on topic. Jaffar and Karel (or Karel at the very least) shouldn't be sticking their noses too far out of the low tier. Jaffar does have Silencer but he can only abuse the Exp gain for 7 levels. Karel denies you of Harken and the Brave Sword and is far and away the worst mono-sword man we have here (that's unpromoted class is mono-sword, promoted is sword + something) as Lyn, Jaffar, Eli, Guy, Raven and Harken are by far better than him at combat (well, Jaffar's close to him but still better) when using proper level comparisons. Matthew and Legault are special cases because of their thieving utility.

I'm thinking Vaida down into Low with the list looking like Jaffar > Vaida > Karel as Vaida's pure strength and durability makes up for the fact that she can't double like Karel (or Jaffar) because Karel doesn't have Silencer for an added Exp boost.

[Colonel M]

I'll buy it.

Jaffar > Vaida > Karel it is. Low Tier, btw.

EDIT: Well, I dunno. Let's try to figure out the weight of the problem of denying Harken. That, and unlike the Farina situation, Karel can still be recruited without affecting a rank. There is the issue of Harken, I guess, but I think that should only be used as a tie breaker. Karel also has availability over Vaida.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Colonel M

[Life]

Awesome. Now onto my next two concerns:

1) What's the reasoning behind Dorcas > Geitz? I think that one should be the other way around but I'm not willing to argue it if the evidence behind Dorcas is too strong.

2) Athos > Heath. I've posted before that Athos is basically your Tactics ranking in Light, shaving off almost a turn by himself (sharing the top left room with a Peg Knight and ticking off half of Lloyd/Linus's HP without eating a counter). Heath is subjected to nothing more than Exp unit use because of him being underleveled and just too slow. Also, here's a little blurb that I've previously said about Athos.

Athos is basically the only guy who is doing proper damage to Nergal and the Dragon. He has his own free tomes that hit extra both enemies and beats the 37 HP requirement of surviving the Dragon. He has fantastic stats and is fantastic for healing or using Luna, even better than Canas because of his maxed Mag stat.

Can Heath's help to the Exp rank really be better than what Athos brings to the table in Light?

EDIT: The real problem with Karel (IMO) isn't the fact that he denies Harken. To me, the real problem comes when we pull Jerme's map instead of Kenneth's (I think Jerme's is the default but I could be wrong). If we want Karel, we have to rush to open up 4 doors by turn 9 while Harken requires just simply plodding along through the snow.

Kenneth's map is no problem for either of them. Jerme's is the one that's iffy.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Cap'n Crunch

[Inui]

Because Inui has not sufficiently proven that Funds Rank is a joke rank, even though I have narrated many times that the 30K ordeal (what each unit got) was preventing her from being recruited in the first place, I have decided to ban any discussion of "Farina Rising". Period. The end.

This is something CATS an I agree upon. Why is one person allowed to ban discussion on a topic and has total and complete control over the tier list? Especially someone like you, who I personally view as far from elite at this game or debating (CATS, Solid, HJ, myself, Reikken, Reaver, Paperblade, Mekkah, dondon, and others are clearly more reasonable and provide better arguments and logic)? That is ridiculous.

Funds was addressed. I will repeat myself again, and maybe it will sink in. Without the Silver Card, each unit has 20k. Without the Silver Card. The Silver Card is such crazy rape that it takes all cash you have and doubles it. That 30k in Ostia? It's not 60k. 5k from the village? Turn into 10k later. Money from chests and story events and the arena? Double it. You can do this over and over with all cash you get. Each unit should end up with a 30k allowance. It takes using 17 Silver Lances, which will kill 166 enemies WITHOUT EVER ONE-SHOTTING, for an unpromoted unit to meet their allowance, let alone exceed it. No unit even comes close to that level of money consumption except Farina and Assassins, but it doesn't matter much. Each unit pours tons of extra cash into the total pool you are allowed to use. Spending money on Farina doesn't affect that much, if at all.

Furthermore Heath, Fiora, and Florina don't cost a dime.

They are better than Farina. That has been acknowledged.

I do not see any mention of you saying Warp is a bad idea.

"I warped a unit to Kishuna (huge EXP for Warp) and 6 more level 14 Berserkers showed up, but I undid that because that unit can't win."

That unit was a 20/10 Harken, which vastly exceeds any Assassin in power, but he stood no chance in there. Yeah, I definitely didn't imply it was a good idea at all. I just tested it.

I should bow down to your elite self. I am unworthy.

Yup.

Jaffar and Karel doesn't cost 30K to exist.

Costing 30k doesn't matter. They only contribute Suck while Farina can contribute Awesome.

A lot of the logic in here was flawed (20/17 Marcus. Rich.)

And it didn't matter. In fact, it turned out that Oswin's level should have also been dropped, and that worked in Marcus's favor much more due to his shitty growths being way worse than Oswin's. I added 2-3 extra levels and made a small error, but correcting it merely strengthened my case.

Here there was no proof that Hardin's Str growth is that much worse than Kain and Abel's. FE3 Player even responded to it with the correct statement.

Hardin: level 6, 9 Str, 30%

Kain: level 6, 8.75 Str, 35%

Abel: level 6, 8 Str, 40%

I don't really do much with FE 11, and my statement was merely a casual one asking a question, not some debate post where I was trying to assert something.

Here there is no statistical evidence that Lowen's Offense is actually worse than Sain and Kent's. Also lol @ Oswin.

It's not there since you're looking in the wrong place.

Here and here should do, right in the same topic.

I love how you're picking out stuff that makes your case look better, ignoring other stuff (that seems to be what most of you guys are good at; totally ignoring valid points), and taking things out of context.

The logic in here might as well be broken. We're comparing Karel to a Low Mid / Bottom tier unit, not to someone like Pent.

Mekkah compared to Pent first. I addressed it. Why? I don't ignore things like you do.

A Debate From a Long Ass Time Ago. Wooooooooow... Hey did you know I did a debate with Dolph vs. Catria and I won with Dolph?

Too bad that debate had tons of factual information about Isadora's performance that you ignored...as usual.

Nice Proof BTW

The proof was posted.

Your Elitism Deserves a Medal of Honor

No, you guys put me to shame, except you're more elitist while being not elite at all.

Lucius > Isadora is obvious within that debate

Indeed. Lucius is better. Good job?

How is 17 Atk @ 20/1 w/Serra "good"? Her Magic is terrible.

It's good because she gets it at 19x. Going into Chapter 20 with 17 Atk, she one-rounds every single enemy on the map besides Cameron and Darin. That's pretty fucking awesome. Too bad you didn't realize it.

With the Body Ring and promoting, 10/6 Canas has 9 AS. I know for a fact this doubles things, and 10/7 comes eerily close to hitting 10. This also gives 11 AS with Luna.

What is it doubling? Where is your proof?

Rofl @ advocating a 15 + 1 Support

I advocated the C, and absolutely nothing more, and not until the midgame. Perhaps you should actually read posts.

Heaven Seal comes free. Farina does not.

Funds, lol.

Rebecca is underrated because she lacks Enemy Phase

God Tier player phase offense + near invincibility + good supports. That's what she has. I can expand on Rebecca later, and I said I would and didn't have proof yet, so whatever.

You just stated why Lyn was special. Oh, and I added 32X to that. ^_^

I'm going to stop. If that doesn't prove anything, I don't know what does.

You proved nothing beyond a mediocre ability to twist facts, take things out of context, and try to be a good debater. Every single thing you just posted just got ripped to shreads.

If she's at 20/1 and these Berserkers are over Level 10, she's fine for quite some time. She can just sit on a pillar with her h4x Supports and her h4x offense with the Killing Edge. Did you know that she has 60 base Crit with A Florina / B Kent? Cya later Berserker!

No EXP bonus to her class like Assassins, killing the 80 EXP per turn average, makes her much worse at this than the Assassins. The point is EXP. She's not as good at it as Assassins. One-rounding isn't that good since you get less EXP. My suggestion is to spend a whopping 17 turns in there by turn-shaving earlier so you can get ~400 EXP per turn, which is more than you can get by doing anything else earlier. You have time to not one-round and gain even more EXP. Combat rank? 40%. Killing in two rounds is still 50%.

[grandjackal]

Considering she even slams on tactics in a 0 requirement map while we can work well enough we might not even see her arrive, much less sit and wait for time to go by so she can fly up and kill the funds rank, I have to ask what Renault (who doesn't require low leveled lords for exp wtfery just like-) or Wallace are doing below her by a tier?

Hell, Karla only requires captain meh (Bartre) gets to a regular level (EXP rank after all, despite a bad decision on using the hero crest) at the time of her arrival, but at least she gives us an extra Wo Dao for funds...and doesn't cost a fortune to recruit, much less recruit and use...

Ok, below Karla's a bit cruel, but come on...These bottom tier people actually do things to rape your rank in one way or another, how is Farina not held accountable on the same level?

[Rodykitty]

Too bad that debate had tons of factual information about Isadora's performance that you ignored...as usual.

Just showing that a character can perform is not enough information to actually change a tier position. Your justification for moving Isadora was never because of performance comparisons to characters just above her, but because you keep wanting to auto-bottom other pre-promotes and because you keep saying that everyone is ignoring Isadora's performance.

[frat_tastic]

Eh, I don't think Harken's performance is game-breaking enough for it to really have much effect on Karel's position. He's not a Top Tier unit, hell he's not even High Tier. Yeah he's got good stats for combat, but so do plenty of other units. I don't think it should really affect his position much.

Also in Value of Life, Lyn does double duty by getting tons of experience (admittedly less than the assassins, who also cost hellas to promote anyway but whatev), and by making herself good for her forced deployment in Light. So yeah, I can definitely see her being the one to hoard tons of experience on VoL.

[Inui]

Wow, that's like saying "Stop fucking swearing."

I am an admitted elitist. I won't deny it. I'm just not as bad as some people here. I don't blatantly ignore things like so many people here are doing.

Hey Inui, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe...you could be wrong?

inb4solidandcatsagreewithme

Yes. It just needs to be proven, which Solid didn't do at all in that topic. I disagree with Solid and CATS on plenty of issues. When CATS first came to FEFF, he said Franz > Seth, and that later got debunked, and I believed Seth to be better the whole time despite being unable to completely prove it. Reikken ended up proving it for me. Stuff like that happens. Things change. Like Priscilla's position needs to change, for instance. Everyone has it stuck in their heads that she's top tier, but it's very likely she's not.

Considering she even slams on tactics in a 0 requirement map while we can work well enough we might not even see her arrive, much less sit and wait for time to go by so she can fly up and kill the funds rank, I have to ask what Renault (who doesn't require low leveled lords for exp wtfery just like-) or Wallace are doing below her by a tier?

Hell, Karla only requires captain meh (Bartre) gets to a regular level (EXP rank after all, despite a bad decision on using the hero crest) at the time of her arrival, but at least she gives us an extra Wo Dao for funds...and doesn't cost a fortune to recruit, much less recruit and use...

Ok, below Karla's a bit cruel, but come on...These bottom tier people actually do things to rape your rank in one way or another, how is Farina not held accountable on the same level?

Farina isn't good. That much is true.

Absolute bottom tier? That's ridiculous. Having her below Nino and some of those other guys is insane enough, now you're just treading right into bias and downright hatred territory rather than logic and evidence. It's been shown that the Funds issue doesn't mean much, YET YOU PEOPLE CONTINUALLY IGNORE IT, and that she outperforms Karel and Jaffar when actually used. That much is certain. Even if the Funds stuff isn't 100% proven, at the very LEAST, you people should be doubting how much it matters. When you guys pushed about Farina's Funds issues, I conceded for the time being due to my doubts, and then found evidence to support myself. It seems that my factual evidence and that other dude's awesome post didn't even create doubt. You're still going on and on and on about the money as if it's 100% certain recruiting Farina suddenly forces your team to use only Iron forever or something.

Eh, I don't think Harken's performance is game-breaking enough for it to really have much effect on Karel's position. He's not a Top Tier unit, hell he's not even High Tier. Yeah he's got good stats for combat, but so do plenty of other units. I don't think it should really affect his position much.

I'd factor the Brave Sword into that as well. It's much better than Karel's sword. Also, Harken's performance is rly, rly good. I think you're underrating it. He's a free, RNG-proof unit that doesn't need supports to just be fielded and instantly be awesome. I guess he's not top tier, but his raw stats at that time kinda are.

Also in Value of Life, Lyn does double duty by getting tons of experience (admittedly less than the assassins, who also cost hellas to promote anyway but whatev), and by making herself good for her forced deployment in Light. So yeah, I can definitely see her being the one to hoard tons of experience on VoL.

Lyn can be one of those units. Not taking Matthew and Legault with their class bonus and huge Spd/Lck growths is kinda silly, though. Lyn is a candidate for my tactic...if you accept it as viable in the first place. What does that mean? Marcus needs to be top tier. He shaves off more turns than anyone else ever can.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Inui

[Life]

You proved nothing beyond a mediocre ability to twist facts, take things out of context, and try to be a good debater. Every single thing you just posted just got ripped to shreads.[/Quote]

Funds, lol.[/Quote]

Yes, I can certainly see how everything Colonel said "got ripped to shreds" (you mispelled the word, by the way). Now excuse me while I go pony trekking with Jimi Hendrix under the sea.

Somebody get this clown out of here, please?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Cap'n Crunch

[Inui]

Yes, I can certainly see how everything Colonel said "got ripped to shreds" (you mispelled the word, by the way). Now excuse me while I go pony trekking with Jimi Hendrix under the sea.

Somebody get this clown out of here, please?

You did the same thing. You picked one itty bitty thing, OUT OF CONTEXT, as if it mattered, and TOTALLY IGNORED THE LARGER PARAGRAPH POSTED BEFORE IT THAT ALREADY ADDRESSED FUNDS.

And then, in typical SF fashion, you troll/flame instead of debate.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Inui

[Rodykitty]

I'm down with trolling.

[grandjackal]

Farina isn't good. That much is true.

I have worked a miracle, you finally admit it! *does a jig*

Now I suppose I should say this, no other sucky character kills 1 rank and attempts to murder another (in the form of waiting in a 0 turn requirement map). Wallace sort of hurts EXP, Karla makes you do something stupid with a hero crest, but neither of them kill 2 ranks at once.

Absolute bottom tier? That's ridiculous. Having her below Nino and some of those other guys is insane enough, now you're just treading right into bias and downright hatred territory rather than logic and evidence. It's been shown that the Funds issue doesn't mean much, YET YOU PEOPLE CONTINUALLY IGNORE IT, and that she outperforms Karel and Jaffar when actually used. That much is certain. Even if the Funds stuff isn't 100% proven, at the very LEAST, you people should be doubting how much it matters. When you guys pushed about Farina's Funds issues, I conceded for the time being due to my doubts, and then found evidence to support myself. It seems that my factual evidence and that other dude's awesome post didn't even create doubt. You're still going on and on and on about the money as if it's 100% certain recruiting Farina suddenly forces your team to use only Iron forever or something.

You mean your bawing, yeah, great evidence.

I'll take Karla hurting one person (Raven's hero crest), Wallace hurting two people (Lyn and Eliwood's exp contributions sorta (they just have to be below a certain level, you can still get them to level 20 without much trouble)) and Renault being redundant over Farina's fail harming 3 characters (whoever, just by killing your funds, as Dondon shown, and you have yet to counter with anything other than your whining) and 2 ranks (funds, tactics).