FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[Inui]

While that's true, it's not likely (And where has it happened in this thread?). You are no Reikken proving Kieran > Ike here. You may think none of us are any good at debating, but we know what we're talking about.

My old band director told us, "If you're right and everyone else is wrong, you're probably wrong."

Note the word "probably," meaning it isn't definite, only probable. From what I can see, you are alone here against 2 or 3 people discussing with you and more who aren't actually arguing for various reasons. As much as it's true that you can be alone and turn out right, if no one is convinced by you, you need to realize you're in over your head.

I'll interpret your response here to mean "No" was the answer to my question, and since you have that mindset, I refuse to debate with you any longer with the exception of the formal debate I still need to finish with you.

You ever think there might be a good reason people are ignoring you? Oh wait, you already answered that.

Yes, Priscilla is my favorite unit. No, I am not vehemently against you because you want her down. If someone made a legitimate case to drop her, I would debate it calmly with them. I do not consider your case legitimate, but debating with you lately has become more frustrating than fun, which no one, not even the likes of Paperblade or smash fanatic, has ever accomplished.

I am actually providing evidence and logic. You're just saying "I don't agree with you, and these other d00ds don't either, so we're right and you're wrong" instead of actually debating the matter. I have remained polite, especially with you, and you just ignore me and troll me instead of actually providing logic or evidence. Well, now Tino or whatever has another report to deal with because you didn't listen to him.

Please explain how what I said about Serra and Priscilla is incorrect. It's all backed by turn-count evidence, CATS and Reikken testing what you can do with Serra within the LHM Tactics requirements, averages, and all that other factual stuff. If 20/1 doesn't make sense for Serra at the Dragons Gate for you, then Priscilla being 11/0 doesn't either. Let's have Serra be 20/1 and Priscilla be 11/0 in the following chapter. Does anything change? Nope. Serra's level lead on Priscilla is always there, she has more availability (which you guys seem to value a lot), she enters combat significantly sooner, she auto-wins the Guiding Ring competition, she's always way better. Can you please disprove this if you disagree with it?

C Hector is not happening. You're telling me that a frontliner (Hector) is going to spend 65 turns beside Serra for a lousy C support? You called my LynxFlorina support bullshit and that is only 42 turns for an A!

Yes, it can happen at some point in the game. Both have the same Mov, and frontliners need to be healed, and both want the bonuses.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Life]

Look man, I'm done with you at this point. Everything any one of us says is ridiculous and everything you say is perfect. I am done listening to you period.

If you want to run your own tier list, fine by me. Fine by all of us, I guess. Just don't come in here and tell us that every single one of us is doing it wrong and only you are right. There hasn't been a single factual piece of evidence brought by you as everything is either completely out of proportion (Isadora being ?/3 after something like 3 chapters for example) or just plain wrong (Farina having the same cost as the average unit). I guess we'll see if the ignore button really works.

Have a nice life, matey. Because if you act like this towards other people for the rest of your life, I can't see you going far.

[Inui]

Look man, I'm done with you at this point. Everything any one of us says is ridiculous and everything you say is perfect. I am done listening to you period.

If you want to run your own tier list, fine by me. Fine by all of us, I guess. Just don't come in here and tell us that every single one of us is doing it wrong and only you are right. There hasn't been a single factual piece of evidence brought by you as everything is either completely out of proportion (Isadora being ?/3 after something like 3 chapters for example) or just plain wrong (Farina having the same cost as the average unit). I guess we'll see if the ignore button really works.

Have a nice life, matey. Because if you act like this towards other people for the rest of your life, I can't see you going far.

I don't understand why you can't actually debate the points. You take what I say, call it ridiculous, I counter it, and you get mad at me for also calling the point ridiculous? I can't grasp why you act this way. I have conceded plenty of points in this thread when I was wrong and acknowledged the good points made by others. You are just being downright rude and ignoring points because they don't agree with your way of thinking.

Why don't you actually address what I said about Serra and Priscilla? Why can't you? Why do you choose to flame and troll instead? Why is flaming and trolling more important than debating to so many of you? Why the elitism? TALK ABOUT FIRE EMBLEM. I have brought up entirely logical circumstances for those units that indicate a potential tier gap. The very fact that you can ignore that and not even doubt Priscilla's placement at all shows some rather extreme stubbornness and lack of an open mind.

Edit: In fact, the post between your two that I made contained no insults even towards an argument, and you then said I'm insulting or whatever... Where did that come from? I've probably been the most polite person in this thread. Wait, no, dondon has been probably.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Tangerine]

I think your problem is that your mind is too open.

[HJ.]

All I'm really seeing here is RFoF blatantly ignoring the facts that Serra >>>>>> Priscilla. Priscilla has a small Mov advantage? Nice, because that really comes in handy when you have bottom tier durability. Serra having a huge level lead, being able to fight for several chapters while Priscilla can't and always having the statistical edge makes her a significantly better unit. Serra consistently outshines Priscilla the entire game. 1 spot on a tier list is preposterous, Priscilla needs to move down or Serra should go up to... oh wait, there isn't a higher tier. Guess Priscilla has to move down.

Also, Inui can be sort of elitist sometimes (not as much lately), but wow @ saying he's the one who won't go far if he retains his current attitude. If that's how we're playing it, you guys will be the crazy conspiracy theorists locked up in asylums swearing the world is crazy for not seeing an alien invasion is underway and that America is clearly helping them.

[Inui]

I think your problem is that your mind is too open.

Being open to new evidence and logic makes a tier list better. Assuming Priscilla is top tier regardless of anything and everything in the world is just crazy. Why? I guess Red Fox really likes Priscilla, but what justification do others have for not even considering my arguments that easily within the realm of S ranking this game? The fact that I can present such arguments and people don't even doubt Priscilla's placement...is really sad.

Loke says (1:02 AM):

hahah it reminds me of when Reikken fought the Kieran > Ike battle against all of you

except he actually won at the end, so this is worse

Hinagiku Katsura says (1:02 AM):

agreed

B)

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Reikken]

There hasn't been a single factual piece of evidence brought by you as everything is either completely out of proportion (Isadora being ?/3 after something like 3 chapters for example)

I have not read anything else in this topic, but...

How is that out of proportion at all? No one would ever even reach lv 20 if levels came much slower than 70-80 exp per chapter.

[frat_tastic]

By the end of the game I can see Serra reasonably having C Lucius/C Sain. Not much else. MAYBE B's for either of them (both like Serra's bonuses since they both have h4x offense and want more durability), more so for Lucius, but I don't know if it'll reach B. A possibility though.

20/1 Serra

29.5 HP, 12.5 ATK, 16.6 AS, 6.85 DEF, 17.45 RES, 49 AVO

11/1 Priscilla, C Erk

22.6 HP, 11.2 ATK, 11.2 AS, 6.2 DEF, 13 RES, 34 AVO

+2 AVO

Well, Serra is definitely winning if we promote Priscilla at 11 (her likely level when Serra hits 20). Serra can also promote earlier for lower stats overall but having combat earlier, which can be worth it.

But whatev, Serra is already better than Priscilla and everyone knows it, thats not the point.

Is she a Tier's worth better?

Serra has fairly good combat when she promotes. Priscilla has decent enough combat when she promotes, although it is certainly later than Serra.

Personally I think Priscilla should be topping High Tier. The tier list reflected this once upon a time, and I forget why Priscilla moved up (I think it had something to do with her giving Guy a support, and he was Top Tier at the time). Priscilla's lower level overall means she probably is your 3rd mage promoting (Serra and Erk are first thanks to level lead and then Priscilla, Lucius, and Canas fight it out, and I'd personally give it to Priscilla for combat plus boosted combat experience).

If we take Serra's performance as top tier (which I don't think anyone agrees with), then I personally think Priscilla's performance is worse enough overall than Serra's to be a tier lower than her.

[Inui]

By the end of the game I can see Serra reasonably having C Lucius/C Sain. Not much else. MAYBE B's for either of them (both like Serra's bonuses since they both have h4x offense and want more durability), more so for Lucius, but I don't know if it'll reach B. A possibility though.

20/1 Serra

29.5 HP, 12.5 ATK, 16.6 AS, 6.85 DEF, 17.45 RES, 49 AVO

11/1 Priscilla, C Erk

22.6 HP, 11.2 ATK, 11.2 AS, 6.2 DEF, 13 RES, 34 AVO

+2 AVO

Well, Serra is definitely winning if we promote Priscilla at 11 (her likely level when Serra hits 20). Serra can also promote earlier for lower stats overall but having combat earlier, which can be worth it.

But whatev, Serra is already better than Priscilla and everyone knows it, thats not the point.

Is she a Tier's worth better?

Serra has fairly good combat when she promotes. Priscilla has decent enough combat when she promotes, although it is certainly later than Serra.

Personally I think Priscilla should be topping High Tier. The tier list reflected this once upon a time, and I forget why Priscilla moved up (I think it had something to do with her giving Guy a support, and he was Top Tier at the time). Priscilla's lower level overall means she probably is your 3rd mage promoting (Serra and Erk are first thanks to level lead and then Priscilla, Lucius, and Canas fight it out, and I'd personally give it to Priscilla for combat plus boosted combat experience).

If we take Serra's performance as top tier (which I don't think anyone agrees with), then I personally think Priscilla's performance is worse enough overall than Serra's to be a tier lower than her.

Agreed on everything else, but why are Hector and Oswin out of the picture for sure? The 10 and 15 bases, awesome bonuses, and extreme earliness they start at makes them appear quite viable to me as C's.

Also, GreatEclipse again about Matthew:

Yes, taken to its logical conclusion, you would need to ignore everything Matthew does except fight, if you disregard Priscilla recruiting Raven.

Again, why should I care? If you can live with a list that contradicts itself by giving Matthew credit for one thing and no credit to Priscilla for another, identical action, you can live with the contradiction that Matthew gets credit for one thing and no credit for another, identical action. You have been unable to counter my explanation of why character recruitment is identical to thief utility, so my argument stands.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[frat_tastic]

Hector and Oswin don't care about durability in their supports and have other options that give them offense.

Plus Lucius and Sain are possible for B's while Hector and Oswin are in no way getting near a B.

And GreatEclipse's logic is retarded. Thieving is a skill available to anyone in the thief class. Legault would shoot up the list if he was available for getting the Silver Card, but he's not. Recruiting people doesn't give you any claim for their performance. Raven killing things has nothing to do with Priscilla. His line of logic can lead to something like characters who do not have an automatic recruitment should be bottom tier because half the time they can just not exist. I don't HAVE to recruit Raven, so bottom tier for him. Same for Erk, Lucius, Priscilla, Legault, Harken, etc.

Or something like that.

[Florete]

Well, Serra is definitely winning if we promote Priscilla at 11 (her likely level when Serra hits 20).

We won't be. That means we lose 900 free experience. It's part of why they are so good in the first place.

But anyway, why does Serra have a 9 level lead? She comes out of LHM at lv 9 so is probably something like 11 when Priscilla shows, which is already only 8. If you assume evenly spread experience it would stay at 8, but Priscilla has two more move so is more likely to be able to heal and will inevitably get a few more heals along the way, so the level lead will close slightly. I'd put Priscilla at ~13 when Serra promotes.

Is she a Tier's worth better?

No.

(I think it had something to do with her giving Guy a support, and he was Top Tier at the time).

As far as I recall, that was only used to try arguing Priscilla > Serra. No one had ever considered it until I brought it up. At least I assume so since no one agreed with it at first.

If we take Serra's performance as top tier (which I don't think anyone agrees with), then I personally think Priscilla's performance is worse enough overall than Serra's to be a tier lower than her.

Nah, I disagree. Priscilla is already winning until Serra promotes. Once Serra promotes, that means Priscilla's experience gain is accelerated for a few reasons:

1. She's the only unpromoted healer left, meaning she can still get full experience from staves. She'll heal more for that and because you want her to promote.

2. This should be around the time you can buy Physics and Barriers, meaning you don't need someone to heal to gain experience or you just get more from it.

Knowing that, Priscilla's promotion will not be far behind Serra's. I'd say Priscilla hits 20/1 when Serra is 20/3-4, and Priscilla will win for the rest of the game.

Then you look at Priscilla's possible supports (mostly Guy. It won't build much, but it definitely helps him) vs Serra's virtually non-existent ones and Aid and there isn't much overall difference between the two.

[Reikken]

This list assumes LHM or no?

[Florete]

This list assumes LHM or no?

Yes.

[Inui]

Hector and Oswin don't care about durability in their supports and have other options that give them offense.

Plus Lucius and Sain are possible for B's while Hector and Oswin are in no way getting near a B.

What are the options for Hector in terms of offense and does he need offense at all when he has such high Str and axes? I'd wager giving Serra +5 Evd/+1 Def/Res is worth more than a B with Oswin giving Hector +1 Atk, and the C with Serra can occur before the B with Oswin by 1 turn or something IIRC.

Oswin's other option besides Hector...Dorcas? Is he being fielded full time? If so, then yeah, that's better for Oswin, but Serra gets a C before Oswin is full even if he goes with both Dorcas and Oswin, since Serra's C occurs way before Dorcas's A. And, again, +1 Atk for Oswin vs +5 Evd/+1 Def/Res seems pretty much in Serra's favor in terms of what benefits progress more.

Wouldn't Lucius be with both Priscilla and Raven already? A Raven seems pretty guaranteed.

Even if Oswin and Hector aren't possible for B's, there's no reason not to scatter C's all over Serra. It probably means bonuses are in play more consistently.

And GreatEclipse's logic is retarded. Thieving is a skill available to anyone in the thief class. Legault would shoot up the list if he was available for getting the Silver Card, but he's not. Recruiting people doesn't give you any claim for their performance. Raven killing things has nothing to do with Priscilla. His line of logic can lead to something like characters who do not have an automatic recruitment should be bottom tier because half the time they can just not exist. I don't HAVE to recruit Raven, so bottom tier for him. Same for Erk, Lucius, Priscilla, Legault, Harken, etc.

Or something like that.

Hmm, okay.

We won't be. That means we lose 900 free experience. It's part of why they are so good in the first place.

That's fine. Then Priscilla spends a really long time not fighting while Serra fights much longer.

But anyway, why does Serra have a 9 level lead? She comes out of LHM at lv 9 so is probably something like 11 when Priscilla shows, which is already only 8. If you assume evenly spread experience it would stay at 8, but Priscilla has two more move so is more likely to be able to heal and will inevitably get a few more heals along the way, so the level lead will close slightly. I'd put Priscilla at ~13 when Serra promotes.

Reikken, CATS, and HJ all tested Serra stuff in LHM and say 10-11 is extremely legit and within the LHM requirements. Even at level 9, Serra has a big lead on Priscilla and is more than 11 when Priscilla joins. Let's have Serra enter HHM at level 9.0, then shave one turn per chapter (besides 13x, it's impossible) and shave another turn from her healing since she can't do it on turn one most likely. 2.31 levels before Chapter 14. Then Serra gets like 6-7 turns before Priscilla exists (lol, rain). 6 turns is pretty much level 12 for Serra. Hey, makes sense to me. If 10 is acceptable from LHM, then it's level 13. Go Serra!

lol @ Priscilla's Mov mattering enough to negate Serra winning in every other for the whole game and getting the ability to fight earlier

Her durability is really, really, really bad. She is two-shotted by everything and has meh Evd. Priscilla rapes Serra in Chapter 17, but outside of that? Her Mov gap is totally meaningless. She can't move around much on the Pirate Ship, Chapter 19 is full of forests and enemies in hiding...she can't USE the Mov that much, sadly.

Nah, I disagree. Priscilla is already winning until Serra promotes. Once Serra promotes, that means Priscilla's experience gain is accelerated for a few reasons:

1. She's the only unpromoted healer left, meaning she can still get full experience from staves. She'll heal more for that and because you want her to promote.

2. This should be around the time you can buy Physics and Barriers, meaning you don't need someone to heal to gain experience or you just get more from it.

Knowing that, Priscilla's promotion will not be far behind Serra's. I'd say Priscilla hits 20/1 when Serra is 20/3-4, and Priscilla will win for the rest of the game.

What? A unit with a CEXP bonus and good offense and staves is getting 2-3 levels in the same period of time an unpromoted unit without combat or an enemy phase is gaining 9 levels? That doesn't make any sense to me. Serra is the best unit in Chapter 23, and she's definitely gaining an entire two levels there alone. I really can't agree with your levels for Priscilla and Serra with relation to each other at all. Sorry. Serra is likely 5+ levels higher for the whole game.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[frat_tastic]

I noticed an error in my previous post, I meant to say that no one DISagrees with Serra's performance being Top Tier, whoops.

Anyway, go ahead and drop Serra's level lead of 9 to 8, I just gave them each one level a chapter. I suppose that Serra may not get tons of heals in her join chapter or something, but it doesn't really matter a whole lot.

Prsicilla's move doesn't net her more levels. Sure, she can move farther than Serra can. I guess this is useful in a couple levels, but a lot of these maps are either small, littered with forests, or have walls that restrict team movement anyway. Plus they both have pretty bad durability, so Priscilla (Serra also) doesn't want to move up to the front lines if they can help it. The level lead basically stays the same until Serra promotes.

Also Priscilla isn't winning until Serra promotes. At 11/0, Serra has 7 MAG to Priscilla's 6, and has 10% more of a growth, so it will always be higher until Serra's EXP gain slows down. Then she has about the same DEF, more RES, 6 more HP and 13 more AVO, so Serra is fo sho better.

You're right, Prsicilla still does get the full exp. from unpromo stave use, which is nice, but Serra also now get boosted combat experience to help make up for it. Priscilla is leveling faster, but Serra is still contributing positively to the EXP rank, so its a minor lead at best.

And I'd put Serra above 20/3 or 4 for when Priscilla promotes. Serra can legit promote around CH. 20, but a less ambitiout chapter would be like 22 or something. Serra is 20/1, Priscilla is like 12. If Priscilla gets 8 levels, Serra gets like 5 thanks to still having staves and now having boosted combat exp., so she's like 20/6 and its like CH. 25 or 26, which is being pretty generous to Priscilla in terms of EXP gain, but whatev.

20/6 Serra, C Lucius/C Sain

32 HP, 15 ATK, 18.6 AS, 7.6 DEF, 20 RES, 56 AVO

+1 DEF, +1 ATK, +5 AVO

20/1 Priscilla, C Guy/ B Erk

26.65 HP, 14.8 ATK, 14.8 AS, 7.55 DEF, 17.5 RES, 46 AVO

+2 ATK, +1 DEF, +7 AVO

It depends on if Priscilla can DA all the things Serra does with offense. Durability fo sho goes to Serra thanks to her nice AVO and HP lead. And then I'd say Serra has been contributing a lot more than Priscilla. While Prissy has definitely been nice to the EXP rank, Serra has been boosting it as well, and then she's been helping by having combat while Prissy has mostly been spamming staves for exp.

I personally see a tiers worth of difference, and I'd like to know what others think (besides you and Inui, who are obviously strongly against each other).

EDIT: Hector has Florina, Lyn, Eliwood, Matthew and Oswin that all give him ATK. He could take Serra, but he'd probably rather have someone else. The DEF is kind of overkill, but the AVO is nice. I personally don't see him taking Serra when he's got a lot of other, faster options.

Oswin has Matthew, Priscilla, and Dorcas. He'd probably take Dorcas over the others since he gets full ATK and full AVO. Serra is just really slow for him, so he'd probably take someone else.

Priscilla also wants Erk for sure, and then probably Guy over Lucius. Lucius gets A Raven and then he'd rather have Serra than Priscilla anyway (almost the same speed, full DEF and half AVO), so he's taking that if he can.

Edited February 19, 2010 by frat_tastic

[Inui]

Chapter 26 was my initial estimate of Priscilla's promotion time. She is killed in two hits by the 14 Str Wyverns and they have 40-50 Hit on her, the 13 Str ones are very close to getting her. That's bad. Serra's HP can give her an additional hit in some cases and 10 Evd matters in the double RN system.

frat, you're making a lot of sense.

Minor error: Serra gets +5 Evd from those supports, not +7.

I see your point about what those other units want, but I do think it's insignificant for them while the Evd is significant for Serra. At the very least, C's with Oswin and Hector should be considered possible.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Reikken]

Yes.

Then Serra would be higher than 20/3-4 by the time Priscilla is 20/1. Or the other way around, Priscilla wouldn't be 20/1 yet when Serra is 20/3-4.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Reikken

[Colonel M]

Sorry to say, but once again: it's ridiculous to even assume a single support for Serra. Think about this very closely. She's a healer, which means she's going to more than just that unit all the time. Hector also doesn't want to sit and wait 65 turns for some extra durability that he already had. He's going to be charging ahead with his Eliwood support. He'll gladly take Oswin over Serra because it's possible. It's 20 + 2 for a C. That's already shitstomping Serra's support Speed into the ground. Plus, it's an Anima support so it's +Atk once it hits B.

I also disagree with Sain wanting to be tethered with Serra. If anything, he'd want Priscilla since the Mov matches a little better and the only threat is 2 range. She's got enough durability to survive a round if you need her to anyway.

In short: I'm not even going to buy your Serra supports. Keep it real man.

[Inui]

Sorry to say, but once again: it's ridiculous to even assume a single support for Serra. Think about this very closely. She's a healer, which means she's going to more than just that unit all the time. Hector also doesn't want to sit and wait 65 turns for some extra durability that he already had. He's going to be charging ahead with his Eliwood support. He'll gladly take Oswin over Serra because it's possible. It's 20 + 2 for a C. That's already shitstomping Serra's support Speed into the ground. Plus, it's an Anima support so it's +Atk once it hits B.

I also disagree with Sain wanting to be tethered with Serra. If anything, he'd want Priscilla since the Mov matches a little better and the only threat is 2 range. She's got enough durability to survive a round if you need her to anyway.

In short: I'm not even going to buy your Serra supports. Keep it real man.

Both frat and I have shown that the supports are possible later on. You're saying she can't be near Hector 65 times and Oswin 70 times for the entire game? THE ENTIRE GAME? Keep in mind that it starts building in Chapter 12. Did you miss where I said Serra's C occurs a turn before Oswin's B with Hector? Sain may want Priscilla, but she totally doesn't want him and his 0 Evd and she has plenty of other options.

They are viable...later. As in, around when she promotes and after. They're viable to hit C's.

Why is someone this closed-minded in charge of the tier list?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[frat_tastic]

I forgot Sain also supported Serra. Fair point, but he likes Serra's bonuses better. I guess they're minor enough to not matter though.

Lucius however isn't something that seems unfair. They both love the bonuses and it's a reasonable speed (the same speed as Sain/Priscilla, and only a little slower than Kent/Fiora, all of which are considered viable supports). A C support is basically guaranteed, and a B isn't out of the question by the latter portion of the game.

[Colonel M]

Both frat and I have shown that the supports are possible later on. You're saying she can't be near Hector 65 times and Oswin 70 times for the entire game? THE ENTIRE GAME? Keep in mind that it starts building in Chapter 12. Did you miss where I said Serra's C occurs a turn before Oswin's B with Hector? Sain may want Priscilla, but she totally doesn't want him and his 0 Evd and she has plenty of other options.

They are viable...later. As in, around when she promotes and after. They're viable to hit C's.

Why is someone this closed-minded in charge of the tier list?

The question is this: why should they? Oswin and Hector can support each other in the first place. Why is someone this closed-minded not listening to me?

[Inui]

I've noticed a trend here.

People think a way and have for a while, and refuse to ever accept theories or evidence that just merely question such things, let alone debunk them. How can that make a tier list ever be accurate and change? Priscilla in top tier can't even be questioned with logical statements and factual evidence? Serra's supports are slow so they immediately never ever happen even as C's at any point when most of them start building very early, and you won't even accept explanations about how they could be possible?

I don't understand why a tier list topic even exists if the topic creator and others are not open to any changes. I don't understand why flaming and trolling are preferred over debating even if someone is polite. I don't under Serenes Forest. I don't understand how discussion can exist like this with such elitism. How does it not suffocate everyone? Vincent, Tino, and other staffers seem like really chill and nice dudes, so why are so many of those beneath them this mean? Especially Vincent; he seems totally ^^; and ^__^ all the time, lol.

The question is this: why should they? Oswin and Hector can support each other in the first place. Why is someone this closed-minded not listening to me?

I'm not being closed-minded at all. Am I the one BANNING DISCUSSION OF THINGS IN A TOPIC AND DISREGARDING NEW EVIDENCE? Nope, not at all.

You think I don't understand how slow her supports are? frat and I had a little exchange with regards to her supports. If you read it, you should probably realize that Serra has plenty of viable C's to get during or slightly after the midgame, and her affinity is h4x (2nd/3rd best imo).

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[frat_tastic]

Well I really don't know if Oswin or Hector are all that viable since they do have other options.

Regardless, Serra doesn't need either of them to be better than Priscilla. Hell she doesn't need ANY supports to be better, although they certainly help her case, especially the one she's pretty much always going to get (Lucius).

[Reikken]

I don't see what the problem with Serra getting a support at a late chapter is. There's no issue with being "tethered" to her when it's only like 4 turns per chapter.

[Colonel M]

15/1 Priscilla - 24.4 HP | 12.8 Str | 13 Skl | 12.8 Spd | 14.8 Luck | 6.8 Def | 13 Res

A Raven / B Erk

Fire - 19 Atk, 13 AS, 53 Avoid, 24 HP, 8 Def, 14 Res

20/5 Serra - 31.5 HP | 14.5 Str | 13.9 Skl | 18.2 Spd | 19.8 Luck | 7.45 Def | 19.65 Res

C Hector / Oswin

Lightning - 19 Atk, 17 AS, 66 Avoid, 32 HP, 9 Def, 20 Res

Serra just barely beats Priscilla now offensively. I'd say this is about Pascal. Let's see... Cavs would be the likely way to go. 35 Displayed, 24.85 True. Assuming that Hector and Oswin have to sit next to Ms. Annoying, she can win in the Avoid department. Serra can double the Warrior and Pascal. Okay, Serra is still winning.

15/6 Priscilla - 26.65 HP | 14.8 Str | 15.5 Skl | 14.8 Spd | 18.05 Luck | 7.55 Def | 17.5 Res

A Raven / B Erk

Thunder - 23 Atk, 15 AS, 60 Avoid, 27 HP, 9 Def, 19 Res

20/10 Serra - 34 HP | 17 Str | 15.4 Skl | 20.2 Spd | 22.8 Luck | 8.2 Def | 22.4 Res

C Hector / C Oswin

Lightning - 21 Atk, 19 AS, 71 Avoid, 34 HP, 10 Def, 24 Res

Shine - 23 Atk, 17 AS, 67 Avoid

Yup, I think I'm convinced enough to buy a tier difference. Top of High is is.

Okay, on my to do list: get the Cavs up. I doubt their position under Guy.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Colonel M