FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[Inui]

Praise Saint Elimine! Progress!

Where to go next... Well, I got kinda fucked in trying to prove Lyn sucked by my own 32x shit which Lyn is actually really good at and it's a better use for her than using her failure durability in other chapters. Lyn's all right in my book by being the 3rd best choice for it, and thus getting a guaranteed spot.

Can we talk about Canas? I see no tier gap between Canas, Erk, Lucius, and Pent tbqh. They are just too similar imo and a lot of others feel the same way. Are people open to me and HJ showing such a thing about Canas?

Okay, on my to do list: get the Cavs up. I doubt their position under Guy.

I also find them both to be better than Guy. If Lance and Alan beat out Rutger's insanity, then Kent and Sain certainly trump Guy.

So, can we like, not be dicks anymore? I'm sorry if I was elitist or insulting, but I really do think I've been more polite and sensible than most others and that some stuff was just downright uncalled for. I guess Red Fox hates me now over debating. Well, that's a shame, since I don't hate her at all.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Colonel M]

I think everyone needs to start on a new page. And I mean everyone in here, including myself. Can we agree to this: no more elitist shit and such? No more trolling and flaming either, Tino has told us all to stop it. I can agree to abiding by it, and don't think I'm ignoring all of these discussions either. I'm trying to find the other facts and make sure that things can be accurately weighed. Such an example such as Serra vs. Priscilla, which I wasn't convinced until I did the comparison myself. Tier holders should always test the logic and apply it in front of themselves before they give a final verdict, which was all that I was doing. If you really think I'm being biased with SF members, again, why have I listened to some of the arguments such as Marcus > Oswin? Isadora up a little more? Jaffar is not Lower Mid? Such examples from all 3 areas.

I also want to see Lyn up a little bit, but I'll explain that later. I'll do a comparison with Guy vs. Lowen since they have the closest of availability and we can see who's better from there. As for Canas, I don't quite know yet. I don't think there's a tier's difference between him and Lucius, ever, unless you hype the hell out of Lucius's C Staff advantage and Canas costing us an arm and a leg with the Luna and Nosferatu tomes.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Colonel M

[Florete]

Prsicilla's move doesn't net her more levels. Sure, she can move farther than Serra can. I guess this is useful in a couple levels, but a lot of these maps are either small, littered with forests, or have walls that restrict team movement anyway. Plus they both have pretty bad durability, so Priscilla (Serra also) doesn't want to move up to the front lines if they can help it. The level lead basically stays the same until Serra promotes.

More move =/= being on the frontline, or at least not in range of enemies. These maps with walls you speak of, like Whereabouts Unknown? This just makes it easier to wall (this is also a great chapter for her move, btw, since you want to go fast to catch the Thief). Not only that, but catching up helps. If they have to heal someone at the back of the army, Priscilla is better at getting back with the rest.

Also Priscilla isn't winning until Serra promotes. At 11/0, Serra has 7 MAG to Priscilla's 6, and has 10% more of a growth, so it will always be higher until Serra's EXP gain slows down. Then she has about the same DEF, more RES, 6 more HP and 13 more AVO, so Serra is fo sho better.

This is not about Magic, it's about move. Both can use Mend to heal pretty much as much as is needed. However, Priscilla is more flexible in her movements and where she's able to be to heal allies.

You're right, Prsicilla still does get the full exp. from unpromo stave use, which is nice, but Serra also now get boosted combat experience to help make up for it. Priscilla is leveling faster, but Serra is still contributing positively to the EXP rank, so its a minor lead at best.

This wasn't really meant to be an advantage for Priscilla. It's more decreasing Serra's advantage. Less time of Serra being promoted while Priscilla isn't means the win isn't that big.

It depends on if Priscilla can DA all the things Serra does with offense.

Well, iirc, 14 AS was the amount to double like 90% of the enemies in the game or something, so she should be fine on that end. Then you forgot to account for Serra losing 1 AS from Lightning and 3 from Shine as opposed to Priscilla losing none from Fire and 1 from Thunder.

Durability fo sho goes to Serra thanks to her nice AVO and HP lead. And then I'd say Serra has been contributing a lot more than Priscilla. While Prissy has definitely been nice to the EXP rank, Serra has been boosting it as well, and then she's been helping by having combat while Prissy has mostly been spamming staves for exp.

This is only possible reasoning for Serra > Priscilla, not a tier difference.

Then Serra would be higher than 20/3-4 by the time Priscilla is 20/1. Or the other way around, Priscilla wouldn't be 20/1 yet when Serra is 20/3-4.

How so? I already gave a reasonable explanation for it. Maybe 20/5 at best.

Regardless, Serra doesn't need either of them to be better than Priscilla. Hell she doesn't need ANY supports to be better, although they certainly help her case, especially the one she's pretty much always going to get (Lucius).

Serra > Priscilla does not put a tier between the two.

I don't see what the problem with Serra getting a support at a late chapter is. There's no issue with being "tethered" to her when it's only like 4 turns per chapter.

I don't see what the point is honestly. Will C Lucius at Ch 26 really change anything?

4 turns per chapter can also be a big problem if you're someone like Sain.

15/1 Priscilla - 24.4 HP | 12.8 Str | 13 Skl | 12.8 Spd | 14.8 Luck | 6.8 Def | 13 Res

A Raven / B Erk

Fire - 19 Atk, 13 AS, 53 Avoid, 24 HP, 8 Def, 14 Res

20/5 Serra - 31.5 HP | 14.5 Str | 13.9 Skl | 18.2 Spd | 19.8 Luck | 7.45 Def | 19.65 Res

C Hector / Oswin

Lightning - 19 Atk, 17 AS, 66 Avoid, 32 HP, 9 Def, 20 Res

Level gap of 9, definitely too big. Plus I already stated you won't be promoting either one early.

Yup, I think I'm convinced enough to buy a tier difference. Top of High is is.

I'm disappointed in you, Colonel.

[Tino]

I think everyone needs to start on a new page. And I mean everyone in here, including myself. Can we agree to this: no more elitist shit and such? No more trolling and flaming either, Tino has told us all to stop it.

I would definitely be glad if this would happen.

[Colonel M]

Alright Red Fox, I will allow you to defend it. If you can sufficiently prove that there should be no gap, then I will abide by it so long as everyone can buy the logic behind it. I kind of disagree that there's a 10 level gap between them, but even so when you think about it a Serra is likely ~Level 13 when Priscilla joins. I mean, I guess I could see that some of the level gap closes down, but she'll likely have the lead on her. Then, they aren't much different. Serra can actually double a lot more enemies with her levels (I went and checked Linus's chapter. If she's 20/5 by there, which I probably could buy but at the same can question it, she can double just about all the Mercenaries in the chapter). The next chapter isn't very kind to Priscilla either. I looked at the Pirates and there are 6 with Halberds, which means potential risks of OHKOes. Granted, I did notice that with the forests Priscilla almost negates the durability lead in the chapter with Vaida.

Her Movement does give her a little more flexibility, but it's true that her durability isn't much better for it. I bash Serra all the time because her durability is pretty mediocre and, IIRC, she's 3RKOed. Then again I would think that if you're getting your healer attacked you're sort of Doing It Wrong<tm>.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Colonel M

[Inui]

I think everyone needs to start on a new page. And I mean everyone in here, including myself. Can we agree to this: no more elitist shit and such? No more trolling and flaming either, Tino has told us all to stop it. I can agree to abiding by it, and don't think I'm ignoring all of these discussions either.

I've pretty much already been doing this, lol. A few moments I may have been unintentionally offensive, but that's all. >_>;

I'll do a comparison with Guy vs. Lowen since they have the closest of availability and we can see who's better from there.

Comparisons to the Cavaliers should end up in their favor against a Swordmaster. Like I said, if Rutger's crazy overpowered broken self still loses to Lance and Alan, then one can safely assume Kent, Sain, and Lowen are beating out Guy. But...I suppose it's better to analyze it anyways.

As for Canas, I don't quite know yet. I don't think there's a tier's difference between him and Lucius, ever, unless you hype the hell out of Lucius's C Staff advantage and Canas costing us an arm and a leg with the Luna and Nosferatu tomes.

Canas using his tomes doesn't hurt Funds much, if at all. Well, you all know my opinion on Funds, so I'm not going to hold that against Canas much. I don't see a tier gap between Erk and those guys, either. They all have various advantages over each other and overtake each other in various chapters, but they all seem to perform about the same overall.

Well, iirc, 14 AS was the amount to double like 90% of the enemies in the game or something, so she should be fine on that end. Then you forgot to account for Serra losing 1 AS from Lightning and 3 from Shine as opposed to Priscilla losing none from Fire and 1 from Thunder.

20/2 Priscilla: 16 AS w/ Fire, 15 AS with Thunder

20/7 Serra: 18 AS w/ Lightning, 16 AS w/ Shine

...

Level gap of 9, definitely too big. Plus I already stated you won't be promoting either one early.

Why not? Gaining combat = awesome.

What is the difference between a 15/10 Serra a 20/6 Serra? Not much, besides about one level. Meanwhile, the 15/10 Serra has been contributing as a combat unit and got +1 Mov way before the 20/6 Serra did. The same could go for Priscilla. In fact, an early promotion on both makes a lot of sense and can be argued for.

I'm disappointed in you, Colonel.

I'm not. At all. He saw the logic and actual evidence presented by frat and I, accepted the possibility, checked it out, and saw that we were probably right. Where are your actual numbers? You seem to hype the Mov thing a lot, but how often is that making a big deal? Priscilla still has many notable flaws that top tiers shouldn't have; piss-poor durability, meh offense, very late promotion (pretty much the latest of any viable unit), horrible affinity... She benefits the Experience rank, I guess. But by how much? She's certainly not breaking past 20/15 or anything like that, so she's not doing much more than any other 3/0 or lower unit for the Experience rank.

[Florete]

I kind of disagree that there's a 10 level gap between them, but even so when you think about it a Serra is likely ~Level 13 when Priscilla joins. I mean, I guess I could see that some of the level gap closes down, but she'll likely have the lead on her.

She'll have a lead, of course. People just overrate it. Level 13? No way. She comes out of LHM at ~9 and has 12 (can't hardly do anything because PK's), 13, 13x (short), and a few turns in 14 before Priscilla shows. ~11 is a good estimate for when Priscilla shows.

The next chapter isn't very kind to Priscilla either. I looked at the Pirates and there are 6 with Halberds, which means potential risks of OHKOes.

Crazed Beast, correct? I don't feel like checking stats, but Halberd only has 60 Hit, so as long as she's in a forest she ought to be fine. (For the record, I usually have Priscilla solo the southwest end with all the Pirates. She never gets hit) You can also drop Priscilla and/or Serra at the right with all the Monks and have them slaughter over there. Even if they can't ORKO it's not as if they'll be taking damage back, so if anything it just helps the experience rank even more. (Those guys have like 11-13 atk and 20/1 Priscilla has 17.5 Res and WTA)

Her Movement does give her a little more flexibility, but it's true that her durability isn't much better for it. I bash Serra all the time because her durability is pretty mediocre and, IIRC, she's 3RKOed. Then again I would think that if you're getting your healer attacked you're sort of Doing It Wrong<tm>.

When did I say more move meant she was more durable?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Reikken]

Then Serra would be higher than 20/3-4 by the time Priscilla is 20/1. Or the other way around, Priscilla wouldn't be 20/1 yet when Serra is 20/3-4.

How so? I already gave a reasonable explanation for it.

Oh? Link pls

I don't see what the point is honestly. Will C Lucius at Ch 26 really change anything?

26 is too late. You forgot side chapters or something.

4 turns per chapter can also be a big problem if you're someone like Sain.

How so? He's not ramboing or anything.

[frat_tastic]

Her move is fo sho an advantage, but its not really a big one. "More flexibilty" sound really suspect as kind of a cop-out answer. Of course I could be proved wrong with examples and such, and I'm sure you'll be more than happy to provide detailed ones.

Really, the reason I think Serra is a tier better than Priscilla has little to do with stats. It doesn't really matter that Priscilla is almost as good as Serra statistically. For a while, both are contributing to the EXP rank and fulfilling healer usefulness by healing, with Serra having a minor lead.

Then Serra promotes and continues healer experience, while having boosted combat experience. She's doing double duty by healing and fighting and is still helping out the EXP rank. Priscilla is just healing, which is good, but is obviously missing the whole combat part.

Then Priscilla promotes and is almost as good as Serra again.

So the real tier difference comes from when Serra is largely more useful than Priscilla while she has combat and Priscilla doesn't.

[Colonel M]

Actually, Level 12 for Serra is a slightly better estimate. Since Balcerzak followed what a normal player would do with Serra during the courses of 12-14 (by this he didn't do Character Rotation which is impossible atm since there is only one healer), I think that's about right. They both gain the same EXP from the Staves, so the only times Serra would be slowing down is promotion and maining combat more often. Looking at the runthrough he benched Serra for a couple of chapters (actually I can buy using Priscilla a little more in Talons Aloft because there are three sides that are taking damage and her movement helps get to those areas).

Edited February 19, 2010 by Colonel M

[Inui]

If Mov really matters for Priscilla and Serra, then Kent and Sain > Raven. Serra has big stat leads on Priscilla but less Mov, and Raven has big stat leads on them with less Mov and one less weapon type.

[Florete]

Oh? Link pls

Once Serra promotes, that means Priscilla's experience gain is accelerated for a few reasons:

1. She's the only unpromoted healer left, meaning she can still get full experience from staves. She'll heal more for that and because you want her to promote.

2. This should be around the time you can buy Physics and Barriers, meaning you don't need someone to heal to gain experience or you just get more from it.

Priscilla's going to be getting levels faster, so the gap will close. But perhaps 20/5 is reasonable.

26 is too late. You forgot side chapters or something.

Meh, exact chapter doesn't matter. The point is that it won't change much.

How so? He's not ramboing or anything.

Move difference and he'd rather stay next to Kent. It isn't as easy to stand next to two people all the time.

Of course I could be proved wrong with examples and such, and I'm sure you'll be more than happy to provide detailed ones.

Of course, but not at this time. I'll have to get to that later. That is, if the change hasn't been made by then.

Then Serra promotes and continues healer experience, while having boosted combat experience. She's doing double duty by healing and fighting and is still helping out the EXP rank. Priscilla is just healing, which is good, but is obviously missing the whole combat part.

But this doesn't last for long. This would need to last probably for a good 8-10 maps to really be worth a full tier imo, because most of what puts these two so high is not their combat.

And then there's still the Aid point I've described in detail that Serra has no answer to, and Guy really wants a Priscilla support while the only partner that might care even a little about Serra is Lucius.

[frat_tastic]

Lucius loves his Serra support. It gives him a fully defensive support setup, which he needs with his almost game-worst durability.

10 maps is like almost a third of the game. I personally don't think Serra needs to be significantly better than Prissy for a third of the game to be a tier better, and while Serra can attack and Prissy can't she's significantly better.

Aid is another very minor advantage for Priscilla. It's almost useless anyway, because then Prissy's SPD is cut in half which she really can't afford.

[Crysta]

I'm not seeing how the gap closes. Serra gains combat experience now, on top of healing utility, and Prissy's stuck in healer-only mode. The gap is getting bigger than anything. Prissy would need to find a way to dwarf Serra's experience lead beyond just healing, which she doesn't, and she just falls further behind as a result.

The top of high seems fine, imo. Aid won't rocket her a tier over Marcus.

[Florete]

Aid is another very minor advantage for Priscilla. It's almost useless anyway, because then Prissy's SPD is cut in half which she really can't afford.

She won't see combat when Rescuing. If she does, You're Doing it Wrong. In fact, it's likely that she's either dropping immediately or will have the Rescued be taken immediately, because this strategy is for transportation purposes most of the time.

I'm not seeing how the gap closes.

Time for Serra being promoted while Priscilla isn't drops from ~7-~4 maps. That's closing the gap.

[Inui]

Of course, but not at this time. I'll have to get to that later. That is, if the change hasn't been made by then.

I don't think the change you want can possibly happen without a lot of evidence.

But this doesn't last for long. This would need to last probably for a good 8-10 maps to really be worth a full tier imo, because most of what puts these two so high is not their combat.

You require 8-10 chapters of fighting + healing vs healing to create a tier gap? Do you understand how big of an advantage Serra gaining combat utility is? First of all, she's not useless 50% of the time. Second of all, if there's no healing to do, she can kill things, and her offense is actually good.

Serra is promoted for 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 before Priscilla should promote in a ranked run if you want her at 20/0 first. I guess you can get her to 20/0 by Crazed Beast...but before that seems kinda of unlikely. Serra is also the best unit in Chapter 23 imo.

And then there's still the Aid point I've described in detail that Serra has no answer to, and Guy really wants a Priscilla support while the only partner that might care even a little about Serra is Lucius.

Aid? >_>;

Lucius loves his Serra support. It gives him a fully defensive support setup, which he needs with his almost game-worst durability.

It's only almost game-worst thanks to Priscilla, LOL.

Or Lyn.

I'm not seeing how the gap closes. Serra gains combat experience now, on top of healing utility, and Prissy's stuck in healer-only mode. The gap is getting bigger than anything. Prissy would need to find a way to dwarf Serra's experience lead beyond just healing, which she doesn't, and she just falls further behind as a result.

The top of high seems fine, imo. Aid won't rocket her a tier over Marcus.

Agreed. I even think Marcus is better...BY A TIER! But I am a rabid Marcus fanboy that came up with a wacky tactic in a formal debate and bases it on that, so...

Edited February 19, 2010 by Inui

[Reikken]

Yeah, Priscilla will be getting exp faster. But so will Serra. Magic user that's actually durable = amazing. She sees a lot of combat.

Yes, C Lucius does make a difference. +1 def and 2-3 avoid? yes pls. And then B Lucius happens shortly after Priscilla reaches A with someone.

And yes, Serra is better even after Priscilla promotes, for having better defense.

[Florete]

I don't think the change you want can possibly happen without a lot of evidence.

I feel like the change happened way too fast anyway. Colonel just drew up a quick (and inaccurate) comparison and called it a day. Way too quick of a decision given how much discussion this list has had. I don't feel like I should have to provide so much evidence for something that was effectively already proven.

You require 8-10 chapters of fighting + healing vs healing to create a tier? Do you understand how big of an advantage Serra gaining combat utility is?

I guess I don't. She either heals or fights; She very likely does not do both since she still isn't exactly durable.

First of all, she's not useless 50% of the time.

Healing helps everyone's enemy phase...

Serra is promoted for 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 before Priscilla should promote in a ranked run if you want her at 20/0 first.

Okay, wasn't promoting by 20 already debunked? Even 22 feels generous to me, but I'd be willing to go with that. Then she only has 4 maps. I don't see a tier gap there.

Really, it's like any common availability advantage, except Priscilla is still there. We don't believe Guy > Raven for his extra 5 maps, do we? Of course not, Raven is still a full tier higher. This is a similar case. Priscilla wins when both or neither are promoted, which is the majority of the time, and still has advantages when only Serra is promoted. So why is so much weight being put on these few maps Serra has?

I guess you can get her to 20/0 by Crazed Beast...but before that seems kinda of unlikely. Serra is also the best unit in Chapter 23 imo.

This I must agree with.

Aid? >_>;

Rescuing.

Yeah, Priscilla will be getting exp faster. But so will Serra. Magic user that's actually durable = amazing. She sees a lot of combat.

Wait, when did Serra become durable?

Yes, C Lucius does make a difference. +1 def and 2-3 avoid? yes pls. And then B Lucius happens shortly after Priscilla reaches A with someone.

It's only 2 avoid. And how many enemies does it actually help against? Serra won't likely be getting B Lucius (81 turns) just like Priscilla likely won't get any A's, though A Erk isn't too far off (Like 76 turns iirc, and starts sooner).

[Reikken]

wut @ never getting any As. 80 turns out of 250 is too many?

20/1 Serra has +2 def, 3 hp, ~13 avo, and 9001 res over 15-16 Erk. When enemies have like 80-90 hit or else use magic, breaking 50 avo unsupported and having massive res = pretty durable.

[Florete]

wut @ never getting any As. 80 turns out of 250 is too many?

It sounds fine in theory but has been disproven in practice. Keeping units together as often as is needed with Tactics constraints is not as easy as it sounds.

[Reikken]

Of course it's not "easy", but that you can't even keep them together 1/3 of the time I find absurd.

[Inui]

I feel like the change happened way too fast anyway. Colonel just drew up a quick (and inaccurate) comparison and called it a day. Way too quick of a decision given how much discussion this list has had. I don't feel like I should have to provide so much evidence for something that was effectively already proven.

I've been trying to get attention to the argument for days now and provided a lot of evidence. You say the the comparison isn't accurate, but frat came in with similar viewpoints and data, and Reikken's doing the same thing, and HJ also agreed, and then Colonel M looked at it and changed the position of Priscilla.

I'm well aware that it's not all about agreeing and stuff, but the people that are agreeing are supplying evidence, logic, and data in the process that disagrees with yours. It's not just "oh I agree" going on here.

Okay, wasn't promoting by 20 already debunked? Even 22 feels generous to me, but I'd be willing to go with that. Then she only has 4 maps. I don't see a tier gap there.

No, it was just challenged and considered about the earliest that can be managed. Chapter 20 itself is going to be full of massive healing and use of Unlock IIRC, so if Serra isn't promoted before it, she's definitely promoted during or after it, so 22 is too late. Chapter 20 or 21 is the promotion point for Serra imo.

Really, it's like any common availability advantage, except Priscilla is still there. We don't believe Guy > Raven for his extra 5 maps, do we? Of course not, Raven is still a full tier higher. This is a similar case. Priscilla wins when both or neither are promoted, which is the majority of the time, and still has advantages when only Serra is promoted. So why is so much weight being put on these few maps Serra has?

12-14: Serra exists, she doesn't.

15-19: Priscilla is slightly better due to Mov in some instances (not all the time, the Mov doesn't matter every turn) and rapes Serra in 17.

20-24: Serra destroys her by having combat.

25-Final: Priscilla loses offense and durability forever, but has +2 Mov.

That's how I (and others?) are seeing it, and that looks like a tier gap.

Wait, when did Serra become durable?

20/1 Serra: 29.5 HP, 6.85 Def, 17.45 Res, 48.6 Evd, 1~2 range

C Hector/C Oswin: +2 Def/Res, +10 Evd, +10 Crit Evd

or swap one for C Lucius: +1 Def/Res, +2 Evd, +2 Crit Evd

18/0 Kent: 34.45 HP, 9.25 Def, 5.25 Res, 34.7 Evd, WTC

A Sain: +1 Def/Res, +7 Evd, +15 Crit Evd

Evd + Res vs HP + Def

I'm really not seeing some big difference, and Kent is considered durable.

It's only 2 avoid. And how many enemies does it actually help against? Serra won't likely be getting B Lucius (81 turns) just like Priscilla likely won't get any A's, though A Erk isn't too far off (Like 76 turns iirc, and starts sooner).

2 Evd is like 4-5 or something in Real Hit.

[Reikken]

15-19: Priscilla is slightly better due to Mov in some instances (not all the time, the Mov doesn't matter every turn) and rapes Serra in 17.

And Serra is better due to defense in some instances. Defense on healers matters too. Of course you would like them to never get attacked at all, but that's not always practical or even best. You can go out and attack something that leaves you in a dangerous position if your healer can go out there and heal him without dying.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Reikken

[Florete]

Of course it's not "easy", but that you can't even keep them together 1/3 of the time I find absurd.

And again, if it's only there for the very end, what difference does it make?

No, it was just challenged and considered about the earliest that can be managed. Chapter 20 itself is going to be full of massive healing and use of Unlock IIRC, so if Serra isn't promoted before it, she's definitely promoted during or after it, so 22 is too late. Chapter 20 or 21 is the promotion point for Serra imo.

It won't be any more "massive" than before. There are only 2-3 doors to unlock and things get cramped, which can actually hurt your ability to heal.

12-13x: Serra exists, she doesn't.

Fixed. Priscilla is in 14 from ~turn 4.

14-20: Priscilla is slightly better due to Mov in some instances (not all the time, the Mov doesn't matter every turn) and rapes Serra in 17.

Fixed. Honestly, I can't see Serra being promoted before 21, and the only actual evidence ever given agrees. Everything else is theoretical and speculation.

21-24: Serra destroys her by having combat.

Destroys? No. Wins? Yes. You are seriously overrating this. Priscilla still exists. She's still slightly better at healing due to move, she still has Aid. Honestly, Guy > Raven if a few chapters of winning means so much.

25-Final: Priscilla loses offense and durability forever, but has +2 Mov.

Wtf?

20/5 Serra, Lightning, C Lucius.

18.5 atk, 17.2 AS, 31.5 HP, 8.45 Def, 20.65 Res, ~56 avoid

w/Shine

20.5 atk, 15.2 AS, same, same, same, ~52 avoid

20/1 Priscilla, Fire, B Erk, C Guy

21.8 atk, 14.8 AS, 26.65 HP, 8.55 Def, 18.5 Res, ~55 avoid

Priscilla wins when both or neither double (which is most of the time. Note that Serra is arguably losing with Shine due to loss of AS), has very similar avoid, more move, partners want her more and are better (Guy and Erk are both a tier up on Lucius). How does ~5 HP win this? Will correct your quote:

25-Final: Priscilla wins.

So if my math is correct, we have Priscilla winning for ~69% of the time from Ch 12 and on (assuming 19xx and 32x are skipped).

20/1 Serra: 29.5 HP, 6.85 Def, 17.45 Res, 48.6 Evd, 1~2 range

C Hector/C Oswin: +2 Def/Res, +10 Evd, +10 Crit Evd

or swap one for C Lucius: +1 Def/Res, +2 Evd, +2 Crit Evd

Wtf. How can she be getting either? They're slow (65-70 turns to C) and the two of them don't even give a shit about the bonuses.

I'm really not seeing some big difference, and Kent is considered durable.

Evd + Res vs HP + Def

That is why.

2 Evd is like 4-5 or something in Real Hit.

That depends on what the displayed numbers are, but sure.

And Serra is better due to defense in some instances. Defense on healers matters too. Of course you would like them to never get attacked at all, but that's not always practical or even best. You can go out and attack something that leaves you in a dangerous position if your healer can go out there and heal him without dying.

Both are 2HKOd, aren't they? Even so, as long as they aren't OHKOd, I doubt this will ever be an issue.

You know, I could also argue Priscilla contributes more to the Experience rank. Sure, they'll probably gain around the same by the end of the game, but Priscilla got 17 levels of SEXP while Serra only got ~11, and unpromoted SEXP is the best help you can get for Experience.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[dondon151]

And Serra is better due to defense in some instances. Defense on healers matters too. Of course you would like them to never get attacked at all, but that's not always practical or even best. You can go out and attack something that leaves you in a dangerous position if your healer can go out there and heal him without dying.

Only if you're tactically inept in the first place.