FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[Reikken]

For Ninian and Nils, I'd find it pretty difficult to override Priscilla. First off, they're main contribution is the EXP rank... just like Priscilla.

Tactics* rank

They help that even more than they help exp.

And not only are they amazing for tactics, but also if you have a tactics surplus, who better to help convert that to exp? and levels for others. Double your arena use.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Reikken

[Florete]

First, Priscilla has Serra to compete with. While this certainly doesn't make Priscilla bad (2 healers is just fine), it certainly cuts down on the actual utility of healing and staff-wielding. She helps the EXP rank plenty regardless, but the actual, practical use you get out of using staves is diminished because she has someone else also running around doing the same job as her.

Remember, if this counts against Priscilla, it counts against Serra in the same way. I'm only saying this because I still believe Serra and Priscilla should be right next to each other regardless of whether Ninils > them or not.

[frat_tastic]

The way I view it (in this particular case, and I guess this applies for Serra/Priscilla as well) is that both are undeniably good at the EXP rank. Yeah, Priscilla is better, but its not like Ninils is even mediocre at helping the EXP rank, they're damn good at it. So to me, Priscilla's EXP rank padding above and beyond what Ninils (or Serra) is doing is certainly an advantage, but it's starting to get superfluous, especially when we start rotating units in and out and start doing chapters like VoL, so then I look at the other things they are better at (combat, refreshing, what have you), and thats where I start to see the gaps, personally.

[frat_tastic]

Remember, if this counts against Priscilla, it counts against Serra in the same way. I'm only saying this because I still believe Serra and Priscilla should be right next to each other regardless of whether Ninils > them or not.

Oh it for sure counts against Serra as well. The thing with Serra is that she promotes a lot sooner and gets combat, where Priscilla doesn't.

Either way I think Ninils>both Serra and Priscilla. I think an argument can be better made for Serra, but I'm pretty sure Ninils>both of them.

[Inui]

Marcus for top tier.

He doesn't do that for the rest of you all the time?

Anyways, "Ninils" sounds awesome. Another point for Ninils > Priscilla imo. B)

[frat_tastic]

Fuck no he doesn't. I hate Marcus, he always is like "lol i <3 hp level ups" and then gives me a big fuck you and sucks the rest of the game. I've NEVER had a good, or average Marcus. What a dick.

[Reikken]

Marcus doesn't need stats to be good. All he needs is a hand axe and a silver lance.

[frat_tastic]

Duh. By good I meant stats and not being an asshat. He's ALWAYS an asshat.

Fucking Marcus.

[Colonel M]

Fucking Marcus. Fucking robbing my EXP.

I think I can agree Ninian and Nils > Serra and Priscilla, but the availability is a rough spot to overcome.

(And yes I knew Ninian and Nils helped with Tactics but their first help is EXP but I think we both get the point).

[Reikken]

From what you said ("their first help is EXP"), it sounds you actually didn't get my point, even though I said it explicitly: They help tactics more than they help exp.

[Inui]

My Marcus has never been below average on any playthrough ever. >_>;

Lucky me. He always rapes his averages. :)

[Rodykitty]

My Marcus has never been below average on any playthrough ever. >_>;

Lucky me. He always rapes his averages.

"Best unit in teh game guyz why isn't he top!?"

[Inui]

"Best unit in teh game guyz why isn't he top!?"

I base my opinion on his averages, of course. I do think he's top tier, but not the best. Serra is the best.

[frat_tastic]

Wait, was Renault always bottom of bottom tier? I thought he was at least above Karla (which is why there was discussion on the topic), and I thought he was also above Wallace. I didn't think we ever came to a conclusion on the subject, so if there was a change (I might just be stupid), why was it made?

[CATS]

So do you want to keep discussing why Renault > Karla?

[Inui]

So do you want to keep discussing why Renault > Karla?

Don't think think Karla is better?

And I'd like to see you get Ninils up higher.

[CATS]

Yep. He thinks Renault is better though, and he's wondering why something might've been changed, when the post I made about why Karla > Renault got no response.

As for Ninian, maybe later.

[Colonel M]

I already put Karla > Wallace, which meant I hopped over Renault.

[Don Draper]

I don't know how much I'll be able to contribute debate wise thanks to my waning interest in FE, but I've been reading this thread and wanted to say that I'd be really interested in seeing Inui doing a log of HHM ranked, just to see how he can justify characters having such ridiculously high level estimates. If we're talking ranked, then characters constantly have to be switched in and out, and promoting characters that aren't Serra before around Chapter 24 seems hard to believe.

[Inui]

I don't know how much I'll be able to contribute debate wise thanks to my waning interest in FE, but I've been reading this thread and wanted to say that I'd be really interested in seeing Inui doing a log of HHM ranked, just to see how he can justify characters having such ridiculously high level estimates. If we're talking ranked, then characters constantly have to be switched in and out, and promoting characters that aren't Serra before around Chapter 24 seems hard to believe.

Maybe I'll do this some time.

[Dat Nick]

*pops open this can of worms again*

Judging from how most sensible people can agree that Ike being above Titania (let alone being in the same tier as her, LET ALONE BEING EVEN ABOVE OSCAR/BOYD/KIERAN) is a bunch of horse hockey, and how everybody agrees that Hector isn't even close to the #1 unit just because he doesn't eat a slot (hes not even friggin top tier) I think us sensible people can agree that just because you don't use a unit slot does not make you TAWP TEH LIST LAWL NO OPPORTUNITY CAWST PFFFFTTTT. Thus all this NO BB DONT PUT MERLINUS ON THE LIST HELL TOP IT BECAUSE NO DEPLOYMENT SLOT AND WE CANT HAVE THAT LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL are pretty much nullified and rendered bogus. Sure, "what he does" is not "comparable" to what Nino does or Ninian does or wtfe, but his "utility" being different from other character being tiered never stopped FE6 Merlinus from being tiered, and he's basically just FE7 Merlinus except he sucks more because he takes a slot. I'm not even asking for Merlinus to be tiered out of bottom, just characters he's indisputably more useful than, i.e Karla and Nino.

And if he absolutely must NOT be tiered because of taking a slot and his utility's different, be consistent with it. Don't tier FE6 Merlinus either. Don't tier Dancers/Herons either, because their utility falls under the exact same principle, they can't be compared to Hector or Eliwood or Erk or Wil or whatever. And while you're at it if Merlinus not using a unit slot disqualifies him from being tiered stop tiering lords too. I'm not in favor of this, but as mentioned, consistency. If his NON NEGATIVE UTILITY LAWL is enough to prevent him from AUTOTOPPING TEH LIST AND WE CANT HAVE THAT BULLSHIT LOLOLOLOLOLOL, then there's no way in hell you can tell me Hector or Eliwood or Ike or whatever wouldn't autotop the list for not taking a unit slot, seeing as how they contribute much much much more than Merlinus ever could.

I'm so going to get read the riot act for this after I just made fun of grandjackal for not accepting the fact that armors fucking suck. I don't care, what with all the Lords-topping-the-tier-list propaganda going around there was too much of an opportunity to prove a point.

[Balcerzak]

I thought we weren't tiering Merlinus due to the fact that he doesn't die when he's killed.

Barring Cog of Destiny Vaida reinforcements and a wagonless Merlinus there is never any reason not to deploy him after 13x. Never. Free unit slot, doesn't affect survival rank, gives you magical item storage options, etc. He's literally brokenly awesome.

[Dat Nick]

I thought we weren't tiering Merlinus due to the fact that he doesn't die when he's killed.

...That's even dumber!

Also, of course there's no reason not to deploy him. That doesn't mean he magically starts to contribute more than every single unit in the game.

Free unit slot, doesn't affect survival rank

You mean like Hector?

gives you magical item storage options

The only time his "magical item storage" should ever be considered as a benefit for him is when somebody takes an item out of the convoy mid-chapter. There are uses for this, it's the whole reason why I argued (and proved) Merlinus>Nino.

[Balcerzak]

You mean like Hector?

Nope, if Hector dies it's game over. When Merlinus dies, you shrug, go "Oh well," and complete the chapter anyway.

The only time his "magical item storage" should ever be considered as a benefit for him is when somebody takes an item out of the convoy mid-chapter. There are uses for this, it's the whole reason why I argued (and proved) Merlinus>Nino.

Or when someone with a full inventory collect an item and they'd otherwise have to discard something, denting funds. This is almost entirely the only reason I ever use Merlinus, as it allows significantly more weapon flexibility by letting you use all 5 slots, instead of having to leave slots open to collect dropped goods from felled foes, or pick up things from chests. This utility is always there and constantly improves the ability of other units to function in their given capacity.

Taking things out of storage mid-chapter is just gravy in the rare instance where you weren't forward thinking enough to properly equip yourself before the chapter started (or you need to reclaim one of the just-collected goods Merlinus saved for you via his primary function).

[Dat Nick]

Nope, if Hector dies it's game over. When Merlinus dies, you shrug, go "Oh well," and complete the chapter anyway.

The thing is Hector does hit the point where he's not in danger of dying at all unless you send him into a swarm of mages or something, so him dying meaning game over is a moot point anyway. On shit like CoD hes not as epic as he was midgame, but once he promotes he's back on track again.

Or when someone with a full inventory collect an item and they'd otherwise have to discard something, denting funds.

What Merlinus does as an actual unit is NOT related to what the convoy does. All Merlinus is is FEDS Marth that can't fight. He's not the convoy, he's the link between the convoy. So crediting him for the positives of the convoy is stupid.

Furthermore, you DO run out of weapons/item slots when it's not convenient, people complain about 5 not being enough all the time. Say your one handaxe ran out of uses and you had to bring along too much other crap like a reaver and a slayer weapon to bring a second handaxe. It does happen, and all Merlinus has to do is do it once to be clearly superior to a putz like Nino.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Fred Fuchs