Best GBA Swordmaster

[Junkhead]

Joshua gets overshadowed by Seth, Franz, Duessel, Ephraim, Vanessa, Colm, Cormag, Gerik, Tethys, Kyle, Lute, Artur, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Eirika, and Saleh.

I said earlygame. And I already mentioned the ones that have no reliable use earlygame...at least Joshua is more reliable in combat.

Saleh? No way. Maybe on Eirika Route but otherwise, no way.

Neither. Saleh is a cheap imitation of Pent that even phailed to be an imitation.

[Parrhesia]

*Wideeyes* Saleh is a great unit.

*Dodges thrown potato*

[Junkhead]

Im sure it was "exepected"

Vivek, stop being such a dick correcting my slight grammar mistakes when you aren't doing any better yourself.

[Inui]

Alan Rainsworth makes me go more than any other person on the Internet these days.

[Junkhead]

The only thing I am in this disscusion is because you make Joshua seem like crap. :(

I am not overrating him, really, I doubt there is even such thing as an overratement in FE8.

[Rewjeo]

Just because they aren't better at combat than him (which, BTW, most of them ARE. Of those 17 characters, Tethys, Moulder, Natasha, and Colm aren't better than him. And Moulder and Natasha get great once promoted. Colm's close for a long time, too) doesn't mean they aren't better than him period.

Earlygame specifically? Eh, no one except Seth and +speed Gilliam (and occasionally Franz) are really all that different. So he's not really getting overshadowed, but he's nothing fantastic, either.

[Junkhead]

Just because they aren't better at combat than him (which, BTW, most of them ARE. Of those 17 characters, Tethys, Moulder, Natasha, and Colm aren't better than him. And Moulder and Natasha get great once promoted. Colm's close for a long time, too) doesn't mean they aren't better than him period.

Earlygame specifically? Eh, no one except Seth and +speed Gilliam (and occasionally Franz) are really all that different. So he's not really getting overshadowed, but he's nothing fantastic, either.

Not fantastic, but he's doing almost well and not mediocre as Inui made him seem. Enemies are still pretty bad here, the only thing they have is Luck...which is still crap.

Natasha and Moulder do great once promoted? Ditto, with Joshua.

Colm has thief utility...but he's only stealing on two chapters and is fair in combat even when C supported by Neimi.

Tethys comes 5 chapters later and isn't really as useful as Ninian was in FE7. Gilliam is having the same performance Bors had in FE6 earlygame, only thing is that Bors grows his Spd faster and has some Def to make up to earlygame axe users.

[Rewjeo]

Does Joshua have anything else going for him? Nope. Not even good supports. Moulder's got his awesome supports, and Natasha's got... well, I'm not sure about her. And they've both got staves.

Colm is fair in combat as well as having thief utility- and being the only one with it for a long time.

OMG she isn't as useful as Ninian? Wow, she must be awful if she isn't as good as Ninian!

0 AS soldiers don't even get to say hi before they get owned by Gilliam. Revenants, too.

[Junkhead]

Natasha's got... well, I'm not sure about her. And they've both got staves.

Joshua

Colm is fair in combat as well as having thief utility- and being the only one with it for a long time.

It's not as useful when the only locks he will be picking are at Ch 3, 8 & 9 and then Rennac comes who has the same utility.

OMG she isn't as useful as Ninian? Wow, she must be awful if she isn't as good as Ninian!

But that doesn't mean she is better than Joshua as you made it seem.

0 AS soldiers don't even get to say hi before they get owned by Gilliam. Revenants, too.

Yeah, you mean that when Gilliam has 3-4 Spd, and Revenants have at least 1 AS, Gilliam needs 5 AS to even double. He'd not getting as far to gain AS when he can't even gain levels in the chapters that are filled with axe users.

[Inui]

Promoted Moulder >>>>>>>> Joshua.

Elfire with no Spd loss + good stats + best supports ever.

[Rewjeo]

It's not as useful when the only locks he will be picking are at Ch 3, 8 & 9 and then Rennac comes who has the same utility.

Colm steals forever. He also can grab things in chapter 15 and isn't a failure at combat. He'll be deployed over Rennac.

But that doesn't mean she is better than Joshua as you made it seem.

Well, the general consensus is that she is. Dancer utility is hard to quantify, but generally people think she is.

Yeah, you mean that when Gilliam has 3-4 Spd, and Revenants have at least 1 AS, Gilliam needs 5 AS to even double. He'd not getting as far to gain AS when he can't even gain levels in the chapters that are filled with axe users.

Gilliam really doesn't have much trouble against the axers. Chapter 1 has soldiers, too. And past the first revenant chapter there are lots of non-axers, so he doubles loldiers consistently. Are you sure they all have 1 AS? I thought they had 0... If he gets two levels, he has a 51% chance of 4 AS. 3 levels, 65.7%. 4, 75.99%.

[Candlejack]

Don't just post people on a tier list without bothering to understand why they are at that position to begin with. Half the characters on that list are definitely not better fighters than Joshua

Seth is the best unit evar. Duessel is only better on one route when he actually exists. Ephraim is only better on his own route where he is actually availible. Vanessa has a terrible earlygame and is only top tier partially due to utility (flier) and supports that will not appear until much later. Colm is a thief that can fight, he is only better than Joshua due to utility with some fighting (like FE6 Thany). Cormag is probably a better unit if he was more availible. Tethys is obviously an inferior fighter to Joshua. Natasha and Moulder can't fight for over half their existance, they are ranked highly because healing is good. Saleh is questionably better (I'm skeptical he's better even on Eirika route). Artur and Lute also have pretty mediocre earlygames too.

Besides Joshua, only Seth, Franz, Eirika, Vanessa and Colm can reliably double before everyone's growths kick in (besides monsters and soldiers)? Colm has bad weapon ranks and bad base strength, while Vanessa is in a similar boat, but faces WTD early on. Joshua is great because of his early game when half the uber cast doesn't exist/still can't double attack yet...

I'm sorry but there are a few problems with this IMO.

1. Ephraim is STILL better than Joshua on Eirika's route no question. He gets a superior weapon type, caps more stats than Joshua, and has much better support options, etc.

2. Colm is actually a great fighter. He has better growths than Joshua too, the exceptions being HP which Joshua wins by lol5%, SKL by 15%, and lolRES for tying it. Colm wins everything else.

3. Pretty sure Franz, Vanessa, Seth, Eirika, and Colm can double when you get them.

[Ansem]

I'm sorry but there are a few problems with this IMO.

1. Ephraim is STILL better than Joshua on Eirika's route no question. He gets a superior weapon type, caps more stats than Joshua, and has much better support options, etc.

2. Colm is actually a great fighter. He has better growths than Joshua too, the exceptions being HP which Joshua wins by lol5%, SKL by 15%, and lolRES for tying it. Colm wins everything else.

3. Pretty sure Franz, Vanessa, Seth, Eirika, and Colm can double when you get them.

Franz cant double till like level 5

Thats not personal experience

[Candlejack]

He has base 7 SPD with 50% growth, swords, and is in an axefest for most of earlygame as well as loldiers who he can double with lances anyway, and you're telling me he can't double until level 5?

[Icon of Sin]

He has base 7 SPD with 50% growth, swords, and is in an axefest for most of earlygame as well as loldiers who he can double with lances anyway, and you're telling me he can't double until level 5?

Fighters and Brigands do have a base speed of 4-5, so he shouldn't be doubling that much axemen unless they're weighing themselves but they usually have Iron or Hand only at this point. Soldiers, Archers and Knights are fine I guess.

Edited February 25, 2010 by BsTrD

[Junkhead]

Gilliam really doesn't have much trouble against the axers. Chapter 1 has soldiers, too. And past the first revenant chapter there are lots of non-axers, so he doubles loldiers consistently. Are you sure they all have 1 AS? I thought they had 0... If he gets two levels, he has a 51% chance of 4 AS. 3 levels, 65.7%. 4, 75.99%.

Yeah, but at the first chapter he tworounds loldiers, not much of a big deal. He could gain a lvel-up with killing four of them, he gets around 6 Dmg against axe users IIRC (Ch 1), and there are actually some that could double him in Ch 2, he has WTD.

Franz only ends up having slightly more Str, Mov & and has lances to his favor. He dosn't double anything but loldiers, bad equipped axe users and knights. He's doubling archers with around 8 AS assuming they don't have steel bows.

Joshua just doubles everything has a great base offense...14 AS, 17 Atk & 36& Crit? That's great. HM Rutger has similiar bases and bears some slightly less offense on HM, but enemies there also have Luck and even higher HP/def. Joshua has to be right below him, if not, right below Fir or Guy.

[Ansem]

He has base 7 SPD with 50% growth, swords, and is in an axefest for most of earlygame as well as loldiers who he can double with lances anyway, and you're telling me he can't double until level 5?

Loldiers dont count

[Salad Utensil]

I'm sorry but there are a few problems with this IMO.

1. Ephraim is STILL better than Joshua on Eirika's route no question. He gets a superior weapon type, caps more stats than Joshua, and has much better support options, etc.

2. Colm is actually a great fighter. He has better growths than Joshua too, the exceptions being HP which Joshua wins by lol5%, SKL by 15%, and lolRES for tying it. Colm wins everything else.

3. Pretty sure Franz, Vanessa, Seth, Eirika, and Colm can double when you get them.

Don't just post people on a tier list without bothering to understand why they are at that position to begin with. Half the characters on that list are definitely not better fighters than Joshua

Seth is the best unit evar. Duessel is only better on one route when he actually exists. Ephraim is only better on his own route where he is actually availible. Vanessa has a terrible earlygame and is only top tier partially due to utility (flier) and supports that will not appear until much later. Colm is a thief that can fight, he is only better than Joshua due to utility with some fighting (like FE6 Thany). Cormag is probably a better unit if he was more availible. Tethys is obviously an inferior fighter to Joshua. Natasha and Moulder can't fight for over half their existance, they are ranked highly because healing is good. Saleh is questionably better (I'm skeptical he's better even on Eirika route). Artur and Lute also have pretty mediocre earlygames too.

Besides Joshua, only Seth, Franz, Eirika, Vanessa and Colm can reliably double before everyone's growths kick in (besides monsters and soldiers)? Colm has bad weapon ranks and bad base strength, while Vanessa is in a similar boat, but faces WTD early on. Joshua is great because of his early game when half the uber cast doesn't exist/still can't double attack yet...

1) A) Your making capping more stats at 20/20 sound like an accomplishment in itself. Especially when a normal playthrough shouldn't expect people to get past 20/10 for all characters at most.

B ) You obviously didn't read my post when Ephraim's 5 chapter availability is not going to outweigh the chapters that Joshua contributes in whether through supports or being a decent combat unit.

C) You make it sound like Ephraim who is probably losing in terms of level when he returns in Eirika's Route (at like level 15/0) is beating a promoted Joshua at probably (20/2) with more supports regardless of how bad the bonuses are. If you want I can do a direct stat comparison which is pretty pointless if you just look up how much better Joshua is at this point.

D)Superior weapon type has no value in itself except when the enemies for that chapter only use weapons that the chapter faces WTD against, so that isn't a win for Ephraim in itself.

2) Growths have no value in themselves if your bases are inferior. Joshua at base has 4 more strength and C swords which means steel, kill, and slayer swords. Colm at base is also losing durability by 6HP and and 2 defense, has fewer viable supports despite getting good Bonuses from them (Moulder and Kyle, but really slow supports). I'm not seeing Colm ever being a better fighter than Joshua actually...5% more strength is meaningless when Joshua gets more strength from promoting anyways.

3) See bold. Summary: While Colm and Vanessa can double early on, their really bad durability and low weapon levels hold them back from 1RKOing and probably 2RKOing nonfail enemies

Edited February 25, 2010 by User Account

[Salad Utensil]

Promoted Moulder >>>>>>>> Joshua.

Elfire with no Spd loss + good stats + best supports ever.

But honestly at which point will Moulder expect to promote when the first 5 chapters can be finished in under 5 turns each? And his best supports are with a thief (slow) and a flier (fast however), when you do honestly expect him to get them. I do agree with the statement though, but healing in this game is slightly less valuable compared to other FEs especially when your characters are noticeable better overall...except personality-wise

Edited February 25, 2010 by User Account

[Rewjeo]

Fighters and Brigands have a base speed of 4-5. He isn't getting doubled by them in chapter two.

36 Crit(- LUK) only lasts for ~13 rounds of combat even with crits factored in.

It doesn't matter how much better Josh is than someone else statwise. It's how they compare to their own teams. Joshua never goes much above average while Rutger's better than the vast majority of your units.

[Salad Utensil]

Fighters and Brigands have a base speed of 4-5. He isn't getting doubled by them in chapter two.

36 Crit(- LUK) only lasts for ~13 rounds of combat even with crits factored in.

It doesn't matter how much better Josh is than someone else statwise. It's how they compare to their own teams. Joshua never goes much above average while Rutger's better than the vast majority of your units.

I'm pretty sure that Joshua can use the Armor slayer to kill those Armors, steel swords to kill fighters and Brigands, and killer sword for tricky stuff like cavaliers until zanbato appears. With iron swords he is close of 1RKOing many things so someone else can get the kill easily. Obviously Rutger is >>>>>>Joshua, but I'm just defending Joshua as a pretty good unit that is somewhat being underrated in this thread and is probably deserving of winning second place

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm pretty sure that Joshua can use the Armor slayer to kill those Armors, steel swords to kill fighters and Brigands, and killer sword for tricky stuff like cavaliers until zanbato appears. With iron swords he is close of 1RKOing many things so someone else can get the kill easily. Obviously Rutger is >>>>>>Joshua, but I'm just defending Joshua as a pretty good unit that is somewhat being underrated in this thread and is probably deserving of winning second place

With a 7 vote lead over 3rd place I'm not sure quite how "underrated" he is in this thread. I suppose just in the comment portion, maybe. I know you only said "somewhat", but I'm not sure how small or large of an underrating you are implying.

[Junkhead]

It's true...well, he isn't coming close to killing knights with an iron when he does around 2 dmg with 8 Str in HM (Ch 6).

But yeah, he's pretty awesome with other swords, his Con is decent and he is still fast.

[Salad Utensil]

With a 7 vote lead over 3rd place I'm not sure quite how "underrated" he is in this thread. I suppose just in the comment portion, maybe. I know you only said "somewhat", but I'm not sure how small or large of an underrating you are implying.

Well the post where every character that was ranked higher than him on the tier list was used to show that Joshua is mediocre made me

Especially when I think the main idea to was to show that Joshua was a meh "combat" unit. Of course I didn't really read much before that comment, but I felt like that implied that Joshua was being underrated in the threads...the polls show that Joshua is beating Guy who I would have expected to some in second honestly.

Edit: Changed my vote to Guy because he does not deserve to be losing to Marisa

Edited February 25, 2010 by User Account

[Rewjeo]

Did that too. He's obviously better than her.

Joshua's a pretty good unit, but he's probably the worst of the good SMs. Ehh, Fir's about tied with him, I think. But yeah, he's definitely not better than Rutger or Guy.