Best/Worst in the Series: Round 39

[Junkhead]

FE9 Ilyana isn't a glass canon, Ilyana's base Mag isn't too high, it doesn't grow as well as Soren's. Her base Def is even +1 than Soren's at the same level.

[Narga_Rocks]

Should a glass cannon be ORKOing? I see references about being slow, but I don't really see any reason for a glass cannon to not, you know, kill stuff. What kind of a cannon doesn't kill stuff? I suppose you could argue that a cannon can only fire one shot and has to be reloaded, hence no doubling, but I'd rather my cannons kill stuff. Like Largo. He's got a lot of HP, but he's not nearly as durable as many other units.

Now, by the one shot standard, Micaiah is one of the best glass cannons of all time. Especially at <30% hp if you give her wrath. She OHKOs armors and cavs for a while thanks to Thani and with wrath will randomly OHKO other things as well, but if she's breathed on by anything not a mage she'll die. The perfect Glass Cannon by the definition:

1. they don't double

2. they die easily.

At least, if you ignore Dragons against whom she straps on Nosferatu and

1. doubles

2. won't die (and could in fact take on every single dragon on the map (but the boss and the two recruitables) in a single enemy phase and live through it.)

(that is, won't die as long as you don't attack something on player phase that isn't OHKOd. She needs to attack after she gets hit and needs to be able to regain all of her hp back. I suppose you also need to make sure that nothing near her is left alive with fewer hp than the damage it causes her, since if it attacks Micaiah she wouldn't get all her hp back.)

[Junkhead]

She doesn't NEED Wrath to kill enemies, and the problem is that she can even get OHKO'd a few enemies or easily 2HKO'd by anything that aren't magic users.

She could kill just fine with Thani alone and high Mag. Ilyana's 12 base Atk is just +1 than Soren's at the same level(Both FE9), and that's just him bering a Wind tome, he will be great with a Thunder tome.

[Shadow Mir]

She doesn't NEED Wrath to kill enemies, and the problem is that she can even get OHKO'd a few enemies or easily 2HKO'd by anything that aren't magic users.

She could kill just fine with Thani alone and high Mag. Ilyana's 12 base Atk is just +1 than Soren's at the same level(Both FE9), and that's just him bering a Wind tome, he will be great with a Thunder tome.

Problem: Soren's Strength woes mean that he'll get weighed down.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Richter Renard

[Narga_Rocks]

She doesn't NEED Wrath to kill enemies, and the problem is that she can even get OHKO'd a few enemies or easily 2HKO'd by anything that aren't magic users.

That's the point. GLASS cannon. She's OHKOd by everything not using magic when at wrath health. Heck, depending on her level gain she might even be OHKOd by some magic bosses if she's at wrath health. And if you want her to kill anything that isn't an armor or a cav in part 1, yes, she does need wrath to kill stuff. At least, on her own. She'll basically 2HKO most things after a few levels if she uses Thani. That is not the same thing as killing them, I would think. So, being made of glass, she dies easily. She hits hard, and can randomly kill stuff if she crits. By definition, this seems pretty Glass Cannon-like to me. You could say she is the very definition of what a Glass Cannon is.

She could kill just fine with Thani alone and high Mag.

Kill what, exactly? Enemies actually have res in that game. At max mag in tier 1 and taking an A Leo support, she has 20 + 3 + 8 = 31 mt with Thani. That's the strongest she can possibly get in part 1, and it should happen near the end. That kills neither the soldiers nor the fighters nor the mages (except 1) nor the priest in 1-5! And good luck getting her to 20 mag by then. In fact, Leo has a max of B support at that point, so it drops to 30 mt (or she can keep Sothe and have 30 mt). Archers have 24 hp and 4 res, so if she has 17 mag or less at this point (and being 1-5, she should) she's not OHKOing them either. She needs between 26 mt and 29 mt depending on the myrm, so she's probably not killing them either. Assuming she has 17 mag or less (and she needs level 13 or 14 to get to 17 mag) she's able to OHKO precisely two myrms and that's it. And that's assuming she's in range of her support partner, since otherwise 17 mag won't let her OHKO anything on the entire map.

Trust me, she can't kill just fine with Thani and high Mag. She needs wrath if you want OHKOing. Whether or not you care if she can OHKO is another matter entirely.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Just call me AL]

Best: Lucius, can't go wrong with him. (Lyn gets an honorable mention.)

Worst: I'm gonna have to say Sophia, despite me liking her a bit. Dierdre and Rhys both at least have staff utility to start with.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Terrence Sweetwater

[Junkhead]

That's the point. GLASS cannon. She's OHKOd by everything not using magic when at wrath health. Heck, depending on her level gain she might even be OHKOd by some magic bosses if she's at wrath health. And if you want her to kill anything that isn't an armor or a cav in part 1, yes, she does need wrath to kill stuff. At least, on her own. She'll basically 2HKO most things after a few levels if she uses Thani. That is not the same thing as killing them, I would think. So, being made of glass, she dies easily. She hits hard, and can randomly kill stuff if she crits. By definition, this seems pretty Glass Cannon-like to me. You could say she is the very definition of what a Glass Cannon is.

Thing is, what I meant is that it's almost useless to give her Wrath early due to getting killed by almost everything, if an enemy leaves her with one digit HPanother WILL kill her.

Kill what, exactly? Enemies actually have res in that game. At max mag in tier 1 and taking an A Leo support, she has 20 + 3 + 8 = 31 mt with Thani.

I forgot to mention Cavaliers and Knights. And she has a better support with Ilyana, you know, a better character more likely to be deployed, better offense and avaibility, they are both glass canons and benefit each other's Atk, Def & Avo equally.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Soul

[NinjaMonkey]

I forgot to mention Cavaliers and Knights. And she has a better support with Ilyana, you know, a better character more likely to be deployed, better offense and avaibility, they are both glass canons and benefit each other's Atk, Def & Avo equally.

But why would Micaiah want Ilyana, when Ilyana leaves after 1-E?

[Narga_Rocks]

Thing is, what I meant is that it's almost useless to give her Wrath early due to getting killed by almost everything, if an enemy leaves her with one digit HPanother WILL kill her.

Except the point of wrath Micaiah is that she goes out on player phase and attacks things that can't counter and then you stop her from getting attacked enemy phase. Considering a lot of the time she'd face two enemies on enemy phase if you don't protect her, she'll die whether you try to use wrath or not so you may as well protect her and use wrath.

I forgot to mention Cavaliers and Knights. And she has a better support with Ilyana, you know, a better character more likely to be deployed, better offense and avaibility, they are both glass canons and benefit each other's Atk, Def & Avo equally.

Ilyana is light. Leo is water. It was the only way to get a +3 mt for Micaiah. Ilyana would only let her get +2 and only once they get to A. Also, Ilyana goes away so there is no point in making it. Micaiah is happy enough to break her Sothe support since wind isn't amazing and neither is Sothe, though Sothe would like her to keep it for the +mt it gives him, but if she does break her support with Sothe she shouldn't go to Ilyana. Anyway, there is no reason to give her Leo and I'd never do it, however the point was to show that even with the most mt she could ever possibly get in part 1 (barring lucky coin usage on a max mt light forge) she fails to OHKO pretty much everything against which Thani is not effective.

[Junkhead]

I thought Wrath's critical was best active on an enemy phase counter from her part...Wrath's critical won't always active when attacking.

[Narga_Rocks]

I thought Wrath's critical was best active on an enemy phase counter from her part...Wrath's critical won't always active when attacking.

And thus you make sure that you have a back-up plan. The thing about player phase usage is that she can sacrifice to guarantee wrath hp. If you count on enemy phase she could dodge or there could be no enemies nearby that put her into wrath hp and instead have her at like 32% hp or something. It's more controllable to use on player phase with her. The disadvantage being that in order to set up a plan B if she doesn't crit, sometimes there is no worthwhile plan A if she does crit. Whichever unit was meant to clean up after her is sometimes left twiddling its thumbs if she crits.

It's a toss-up based on personal preference, really.

[Junkhead]

I don't think I have a "back-up" plan other than a small arguement =/

Micaiah's dodge isn't high enough, she only has Luck. But does that make up for axe users who have over 100% Hit on a neutral byorhyhm that Edward could barely avoid when on high? No.

She is great, I can't deny that, but Wrath still doesn't make her much better seeing as how fragile she is, it's rather risking a Game Over just to try and make her better because of a skill.

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't think I have a "back-up" plan other than a small arguement =/

Micaiah's dodge isn't high enough, she only has Luck. But does that make up for axe users who have over 100% Hit on a neutral byorhyhm that Edward could barely avoid when on high? No.

She is great, I can't deny that, but Wrath still doesn't make her much better seeing as how fragile she is, it's rather risking a Game Over just to try and make her better because of a skill.

Even if the enemy has 80% hit on her, they might miss and you don't get to wrath on enemy phase. The beauty of player phase is that if she doesn't crit you can use someone else to KO the thing. The important part is that she always activates wrath. That's the advantage that sacrifice brings. Also, you don't have to find a way to line her up on enemy phase to make sure that she only faces one attack.

There is no risk of a game over when going for crits on player phase since you can adjust your plan accordingly whether she crits or doesn't and thus keep her safe. A unit running around with 1 hp can only die if it is poisoned or if it gets attacked. It can't just randomly die on its own.

[Junkhead]

Even if the enemy has 80% hit on her, they might miss and you don't get to wrath on enemy phase.

It's HIGHLY unlikely.

The beauty of player phase is that if she doesn't crit you can use someone else to KO the thing.

But the point is you were defending Micaiah in this...she is not used as a weakener but on the contrary, others weaken for her, and not criticaling an enemy is just an average attack.

There is no risk of a game over when going for crits on player phase since you can adjust your plan accordingly whether she crits or doesn't and thus keep her safe. A unit running around with 1 hp can only die if it is poisoned or if it gets attacked. It can't just randomly die on its own.

It's still like heads or tails, RNG screwed or blessed...not the most ideal of things.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

How come? They seem to be more like Fragile Speedsters, if you ask me...

Your right Guy is more of fragile speedster, I forgot about his 30% str, but Edward can be thought of as a melee glass cannon 60% str and bad defense sounds like a melee glass canon to me

Best: Lucius, can't go wrong with him. (Lyn gets an honorable mention.)

Worst: I'm gonna have to say Sophia, despite me liking her a bit. Dierdre and Rhys both at least have staff utility to start with.

Lyn doesnt have the str to "dish it" shes more of the fragile speedster

[Junkhead]

I did mention that Str isn't enough and just balanced for the circumstances he is placed in (Much tougher enemies), besides, his critical will be pretty low due to enemies actually bearing Luck and him getting only a +10% Crit. bonus on promotion and no +5% when hitting an S rank.

[Mikethfc]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned any FEDS mage

Best: Lilina good ol' PEME

Worst:Micaiah more of that good ol' PEME plus I find her annoying

[Just call me AL]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned any FEDS mage

It all really depends on which incarnation you're talking about. (I know you said FEDS, but there's like three different versions of Merric and Linde.) But I don't have any good details of how they'd measure up to other glass cannons in the series, let alone other mages or their other versions. Edited March 8, 2010 by Terrence Sweetwater

[Fayt Zelpher]

Let's see. Best = FE9 Soren. Micaiah is the other choice for my vote, as she has Thani and staves, but she's got poor speed and even worse HP. Soren gets tons of speed, at least B Ike for 15 avoid, and can do tons of damage with just an elwind tome. Not to mention that he can easily get to 90+ avoid with that Ike support by 20/20 in a game where 130 hit is really high, and you've basically got an avoid tank that hurts back.

Worst - (and Soul's going to HATE me for this, but) Sanaki. 2 base strength for an ostensibly 3rd tier character? Not cool. She's got Mag to no end, but when she's weighed down by everything and well within doubling range in a game where 28/10 is quite capable of being OHKO'ed and 20 AS (with Cymbeline) is in danger of getting doubled, you've got a recipe for disaster.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Lord Ratatosk

[Anouleth]

Best: Micaiah. It's extremely satisfying to watch her blick Armours with Thani.

Worst: Lyn.

In general though, I really like glass cannon-y mages. Lilina, Merric, Sanaki, Micaiah, Soren, Calill are all fun to use.

[Killer Poleax]

Best: unfortunately Micaiah but only cause of Thani. without it she's just another mage

Worst: Sanaki, gets ORKOed by every non-mage enemy on her first map, maybe even her 2nd map too. and this is the part in the game where most of the characters you're using are kicking ass without too much trouble and you shouldn't have to worry about them

[Junkhead]

Worst - (and Soul's going to HATE me for this, but).

That's what a fanboy would do, not my case.

And you can only choose one, Micaiah could stay as an honorable mention.

[Fayt Zelpher]

That's what a fanboy would do, not my case.

And you can only choose one, Micaiah could stay as an honorable mention.

That was what I meant to say (Micaiah being an honorable mention). I should've said that 'she would be the other possible candidate for my vote, but...'

[Parrhesia]

BEST would be Lucius, definitely.

WORST are Phantoms. One hit point wonders with Iron Axes, woo~

And yes, I say they count as cannons if you're lucky enough to get a good axe.

[CT075]

Best: FE4 Inflation!Diedre Sara, I guess.

Worst: Diadora. BY FAR.

lolDiedregetsOHKO'dat>150hitrates