Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[Phoenix]

Anything out of place?

Virginity.

@ Snowy

I know you said no skill deletion, but I'm wondering if would be okay if I change Irina's start up skill(it's never been used in stat combat so it wouldn't need retconning story-wise). The new stat caps have kind of complicated her stats. No I don't plan on adding miracle. That's Cynthia's thing <_<

@ Cynthia

I don't like arguing. Plus if Cuddles shows up in the middle of an argument ...

Edited June 10, 2010 by Phoenix

[-Cynthia-]

We can just remember that all mage types have a missing stat point put in Str.

And yeah Res down to 2.

@Phoenix If you're not willing to argue, than no whining. I tried to be fair across the board.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Balcerzak]

Oh, I don't care who I knocked on the baths to. While I was aiming for Irina, it's possible that the sign is one of those "flip it to your own gender" type things that Cess conveniently missed seeing and ignored doing. So, whatever works.

[Phoenix]

Oh, I don't care who I knocked on the baths to. While I was aiming for Irina, it's possible that the sign is one of those "flip it to your own gender" type things that Cess conveniently missed seeing and ignored doing. So, whatever works.

I was going to post about it being Irina, but I'm a bit busy with this stat crap right now

@ Cynthia

Observation is not whining. Perfectly fine with working out a better balance though, just no arguing because that's a waste of time.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Phoenix

[Balcerzak]

I'm mostly indifferent to the stats to be honest. It's like gravy. The stat combats are fun, and I like them to be done right, but they're not the main event.

It does seem like the changeover is a bit sudden, but if everyone's cool with it, and wants to give it a go, why not? If it fails horribly, we can always either revert, or fix it as we go. If it's a much needed improvement, allowing better expression of expected variations, awesome.

That said, I haven't honestly looked at it enough to tell, I was busy focusing on other issues.

Edit: Oh, and no problems Phoenix, I'm not in any hurry. :)

Edited June 10, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Ansem]

Fix'd

[Phoenix]

Happy 6,001th post?

[Ansem]

Not yet

[Snowy_One]

I'm against the idea of giving a skill change.

[Ansem]

I dont remember anyone asking.....

[-Cynthia-]

@ Bal Tessa already fits the old stat caps, so you can keep plugging along as is if you want.

@Phoenix Reaching a better balance would require some form of argumentation.

[Ansem]

I could argue about the Mage speed caps

Anyways i am going to scrap that 1 STR for + 1 luck

[Phoenix]

I'm against the idea of giving a skill change.

Alright. I'll try to work a new angle then.

@Phoenix Reaching a better balance would require some form of argumentation.

Let me rephrase that. I don't like arguing(bickering back and forth about things). I'm not against the stat caps on Peggies. I'm more against the speed stat being flattened(no 0.5s), and at the same time not getting an every 3 points bonus. That's a few too many downsides. You could easily balance speed out by altering other areas. I just don't see why speed has to directly get "nerfed" as you put it as a quick fix.

[Ansem]

@ Cynthia: I think you forgot to distribute 2 more points to Morgan

[-Cynthia-]

Well nerfing Lck more makes that stat absolutely useless, and making Skl better has the same effect as making Evd worse.

Kai- That effectively drops Helios to 3 Spd, due to the tome weighing him down.

*counts again* hidden 1 Str, but yeah I missed one.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Phoenix]

Well nerfing Lck more makes that stat absolutely useless, and making Skl better has the same effect as making Evd worse.

You did mention Kamilla's buffs, but that was dropped quickly for no reason.

Upping skill cap doesn't really make evasion worse per se, it only gives higher speed characters less chance to go untouched(not all enemies are super skill anyway). Low skill characters still can't hit them very often.

[Ansem]

Okay then

Final statsheet

Hidden STR

[Balcerzak]

You did mention Kamilla's buffs, but that was dropped quickly for no reason.

Upping skill cap doesn't really make evasion worse per se, it only gives higher speed characters less chance to go untouched(not all enemies are super skill anyway). Low skill characters still can't hit them very often.

Huh, well, maybe if you want to keep some form of evade bonus (1 for three or something), maybe have luck give a half bonus to accuracy or something?

*tosses out random not completely thought through idea*

[-Cynthia-]

You did mention Kamilla's buffs, but that was dropped quickly for no reason.

Because she can either give bonuses to Atk or Def, not Hit or Evd. Thus high Evd characters are more unbalanced since there are less checks in place.

Upping skill cap doesn't really make evasion worse per se, it only gives higher speed characters less chance to go untouched(not all enemies are super skill anyway). Low skill characters still can't hit them very often.

I was talking about making Skill give 1.5 Hit or something, which essentially the same as making Evd worse.

You can still reach high Evd values. Again, let's take maxxed Reika, 6 Evd from Spd, 2 from lck 1 from knives gives her 9 Evd. This means Shamans/Fighters/Bandits can only hit her on a 6, most classes can only hit her on a 5 or 6 (33%). Even Myrms/Nomads etc. only have 66% hit, and that's if they put all 6 points into Skl.

In general, a system should be designed to have more hits than misses (misses are boring).

[Ansem]

The blacksmith....

What was his name?

[Phoenix]

I was talking about making Skill give 1.5 Hit or something, which essentially the same as making Evd worse.

You can still reach high Evd values. Again, let's take maxxed Reika, 6 Evd from Spd, 2 from lck 1 from knives gives her 9 Evd. This means Shamans/Fighters/Bandits can only hit her on a 6, most classes can only hit her on a 5 or 6 (33%). Even Myrms/Nomads etc. only have 66% hit, and that's if they put all 6 points into Skl.

In general, a system should be designed to have more hits than misses (misses are boring).

At least I don't have to worry about ulterior motives myself :P

I get what you're saying, but unit speed shouldn't be so retrograded that a low skill character will actually have decent hit rates against high evasion characters. That just seems like a way to give enemies an edge over everyone, and not just the appropriate classes.

I'd recommend maintaining the 3+1 bonus for speed, and that's it.

[-Cynthia-]

Except they don't have high hit rates. Read the above example.

Since yoúr concern about Eva is obviously mostly about Viveka even though you don't need another dumb chick that flies, let me give you an example. Let's say she's fighting Esphyr.

Esphyr has 2 Skl, Viveka has 7 Eva with max Spd and Lck. Esphyr only has a 33% chance to hit. If Viveka has a C support with anyone, or Esphyr is not using her CW, chance to hit drops to 16.67% (both and she's invicible). Meanwhile, Viveka's packing pretty fantastic hit rates on Esphyr.

[Snike]

If there's no skill change, there should be at least class-slayer weapons, or something. Otherwise, the Myrms, when they get to fighting semi-robust enemies, only do scratch damage. +3 STR boost isn't enough, because what if Kamilla gets ROFLcritted, or if she's not in the battle? The weapons are needed to balance it out, so that every class can do some sort of damage.

Edit: At least Peg knights have lances. Those can actually do damage, thanks to WTD neutrality on tanks.

Edit 2: By scratch damage, none on knights, with maxed STR rolling a 6 versus Max DEF, due to WTD.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Snike

[Ansem]

Spd:

Cap 6: Myrmidons, Nomads, Rogues

Cap 5: Troubadours, Pegasus Knights, Mercenaries

Cap 4: Clerics, Wind Mages, Fire Mages, Thunder Mages, Shamans, Fighters, Bandits, Archers, Cavaliers, Soldiers, Wyvern Knights

Cap 3: Armor Knights

Dunno where the evade came from

[riariadne]

I said I pm'd him about it.