Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[-Cynthia-]

If you're packing 11 Evd, you're hardly an easy target. The list of characters that can hit you is down to 2(of those who have updated), and Reika now doubles Helios so she can ORKO him pretty easily and we all know Eric is no durability champion. The majority of characters have no way to possibly hit her (I guess you can carry around +Hit potions), which strikes me as unfair. We'd all essentially have to stand around while she stabs us to death.

Meh, Tessa heals high Evd characters more than high Def characters (mostly becuase Damian neve needs it).

I'll try to keep Skl values relatively low for standard enemies in the future (unless it's a pack of myrms or something), though if hit rates in your character are below 50% don't expect much pity.

[Phoenix]

If you're packing 11 Evd, you're hardly an easy target. The list of characters that can hit you is down to 2(of those who have updated), and Reika now doubles Helios so she can ORKO him pretty easily and we all know Eric is no durability champion. The majority of characters have no way to possibly hit her (I guess you can carry around +Hit potions), which strikes me as unfair. We'd all essentially have to stand around while she stabs us to death.

Meh, Tessa heals high Evd characters more than high Def characters (mostly becuase Damian neve needs it).

I'll try to keep Skl values relatively low for standard enemies in the future (unless it's a pack of myrms or something), though if hit rates in your character are below 50% don't expect much pity.

But you're listing characters in the party. PvP scenarios basically.

The whole point of evasion is to not be an easy target. Just think of Jaffar as an NPC during his recruitment chapter. You've got like five turns to reach him before he starts taking hits on average. High evasion's only purpose is to make a unit a harder target, just like high defense is only for keeping characters alive longer.

Retroing evasion just seems bias and pointless to me especially when FE is considered.

Like I said, you're likely to roll a few sixes anyway. I don't want pity. I want speed flattening left alone.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Phoenix

[-Cynthia-]

Here's a few other examples that are more what I was thinking of.

Neimi lv 20/1= 18.4 speed (Sniper).

Joshua lv 20/1= 20 speed (Swordsmaster).

Seth lv --/1= 12 speed.

Franz lv 20/1= 17.5 (Paladin)/ 18.5 (Great Knight).

Neimi is around the same Spd as Franz (who's in the same Spd tier) and slower than Joshua (who's above). I admit that comparing prepromotes to trained units is unfair, shouldn't have used Shinon earlier.

Rebecca lv 20/1= 18.4 speed.

Guy lv 20/1= 20 speed.

Marcus lv --/1= 11 speed.

Sain lv 20/1= 14.6 speed.

And the best part of all: Briggid has the highest base speed out of every. Single. Character. In the First Generation of FE4.

Again, she's still slower than the Myrmidon. Rebecca is ~3 points above Sain, but Wil is about 3 pts below, so it balances out IMO. Cavaliers and Archers can have pretty high Spds and low Spds, so it evens out in the end. Marcus is a Jeigan, not really fair for comparison purposes of this type.

@BigbangMeteor Oops! Hmm, let's say 5, especially since you use axes.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Ether]

I don't really see the point of all of these changes.The system works fine,and all you are really doing is overcomplicating everything.

We can have seperate caps for Tier 2,but Tier 1 has almost always had the same stat caps throughout the classes.

[-Cynthia-]

But you're listing characters in the party. PvP scenarios basically.

Also effects bosses and any other "quality" NPCs

The whole point of evasion is to not be an easy target. Just think of Jaffar as an NPC during his recruitment chapter. You've got like five turns to reach him before he starts taking hits on average. High evasion's only purpose is to make a unit a harder target, just like high defense is only for keeping characters alive longer.

No shit. However, notice how the enemies don't all have 0% hit on Jaffar. High Evd still keeps you around longer, it's just not overly effective at it.

Retroing evasion just seems bias and pointless to me especially when FE is considered.

Even "high" Evd characters in FE constantly run into hit rates of 33% or so, unless it's FE8 or you have an Earth support or something.

Like I said, you're likely to roll a few sixes anyway. I don't want pity. I want speed flattening left alone.

You're not much of one for probabilities. 16.67% = not a good chance. If your character gets attacked six times during a combat, you've probably killed 4 enemies or so. "A few sixes" only happens if said character is being attacked like 18 times.

You don't have to readjust your current character unless you have a stat of 4 and a cap of 3 or somesuch, it's mostly optional. Just calculate Avo/ Def/Res differently.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[riariadne]

I agree with Ether about same tier 1 cpas. It's silly, really, to have such varying caps before promotion.

think we should be able to make our own caps, to a point. Not like, 'oheylookIhave10strlol', but we could have 10 points to distribute and the max is 3 points per stat and luck is auto cap of 6. So max cap is 7 and smallest is 4.

Ex:

Hunter -> RobinHood

HP 6+1

Str 4+2

Skl 4+2

Spd 4+3

Luk 4+2 (auto)

Def 4+ 1

Res 4+1

(I'm actually not sure if anyone noticed I had lower def/res caps as well... they're both 3 caps on my statsheet. I think.)

Edited June 10, 2010 by Lightning

[riariadne]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed this, but the skill cap is lowered in exchange for the higher speed cap.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Lightning

[-Cynthia-]

It doesn't make sense for Knights and Myrmidons to have the same caps before promotion. I personally found that similar caps led to too much homogenaity, especially given the number of points we had. We were all ending up having the same stats.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Phoenix]

@ Sixes

I was just poking fun at your peggie hate, and how often she is likely going to be attacked by the enemy since you control them :(

@ FE hit rates versus ours

We're using smaller numbers than FE. It's 6/6 dice rolling system instead of 100/100 RNG system. Minor tweaks in FE's system won't change things significantly, but it can have drastic changes in our 6/6 dice rolling system, which I don't like as a whole.

@ 0% HIT

That's why we should really get cracking on those boosting items. Some characters are generally useless against others. I don't see the point of changing that just to increase hit rates. You just want us to regret not using Miracle at start up, don't you? :P

@ Quality Bosses

Evasion will take a back seat in those fights anyway, so why retrograde it and make high evaders useless against heavy hitters?

EDIT:

Yes I am over generalizing and exaggerating a bit.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Phoenix

[the_whistler]

I guess I'll fix my stats later, depending on what you guys agree on + post up some backstory. It probably won't be here till tomorrow though because I'm busy with work today.... and I was going to finally enter the main story now dammit lousy timing :P

[Ether]

Again,it seems you are only doing this to over complicate things.There is not anything wrong with the way the stats are now.

[-Cynthia-]

You have a weird definition of "useless". If the enemies have 16.67% hit rates on you, odds are you probably won't be hit during the entire combat. It just means that when you attack you might actually have to roll the dice to take a counter rather than having auto-invincibility.

Your standards for evasiveness seem to be too high. It's as if you want Viveka to waltz on the battlefield and be untouchable by absolutely everything just because you decided to max Spd (which everyone does anyway). Woo hoo?

I'd rather boost the Lck bonus to Evd rather than Spd personally, since at least everyone can do it equally and it feels like you're investing something since everyone pours all their points into Spd anyway. Lck gives +1 instead of 0.5?

It seemed weird to me that all characters have the exact same capabilities, besides weapons.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[riariadne]

The problem with individual caps are that we should've either had them in the first place or ditch them, because I don't like the caps for Chase's class, and I can't change it now.

[-Cynthia-]

Your caps are almost all 4's across the board anyway, not much of a change.

They probably should have been different to start with, that's true. I guess if you guys really don't mind thieves as strong as fighters and knights as fast as myrmidons it can be switched back. I didn't like the logical inconsistency and neither did several others.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Snike]

Part of that's because we didn't introduce weapon differences, and the term 'build' is rather loosely interpreted. Weapon capabilities should be better defined, but that's just me being annoyed that axes have the same ACC as swords.

Here's an idea: Keep the SPD 1.5 bonus, but introduce evasion decay. IE, evade drops after every consecutive attack made on the evading unit. It gets restored at the end of one phase, but it prevents dodge-tanks, assuming the enemy willfinally decide to swarm. Just putting that out there.

[Phoenix]

You have a weird definition of "useless". If the enemies have 16.67% hit rates on you, odds are you probably won't be hit during the entire combat. It just means that when you attack you might actually have to roll the dice to take a counter rather than having auto-invincibility.

Your standards for evasiveness seem to be too high. It's as if you want Viveka to waltz on the battlefield and be untouchable by absolutely everything just because you decided to max Spd (which everyone does anyway). Woo hoo?

I'd rather boost the Lck bonus to Evd rather than Spd personally, since at least everyone can do it equally and it feels like you're investing something since everyone pours all their points into Spd anyway. Lck gives +1 instead of 0.5?

It seemed weird to me that all characters have the exact same capabilities, besides weapons.

My standards for evasiveness aren't too high, just bias, just like you're bias against it(which you admitted). Viveka being nearly impossible to be hit by someone with 2 hit isn't unbalanced(just hilarious). High evasion doesn't make her or any other fast characters immune to high hit characters, and you can still give them an even bigger edge with stat boosters.

When I made Viveka, she was perfectly balanced, and you admitted that too. The new system has only changed caps and how things are counted. Speed is the only stat that's being nerfed and that's not balance IMO.

@ Luck bonus

That seems like a fair compromise. I just don't like the idea of downing speed without compensating for it in some way. Lowering evasion without lowering anything else doesn't make sense.

[Balcerzak]

Part of that's because we didn't introduce weapon differences, and the term 'build' is rather loosely interpreted. Weapon capabilities should be better defined, but that's just me being annoyed that axes have the same ACC as swords.

Here's an idea: Keep the SPD 1.5 bonus, but introduce evasion decay. IE, evade drops after every consecutive attack made on the evading unit. It gets restored at the end of one phase, but it prevents dodge-tanks, assuming the enemy willfinally decide to swarm. Just putting that out there.

So, they get a flanking bonus, you mean?

[Ether]

It's not that the idea is bad,but implementing it at this point just seems pointless.Like Lightning said,the individual caps can heavily influence a lot of things that we can't change now,for example,I would have never made Aiya a wyvern rider had there been a decreased Skl cap in the beginning,due to how important hit is in this RP,now,if we change it,people are stuck with it.

Like I said,Tier 1,it was always like that.Seperate Caps for T2 classes is more reasonable,and I have no problem with discussing that further.

[Snike]

Yeah. It could apply both ways, as well. Promotes teamwork on both sides.

[riariadne]

Your caps are almost all 4's across the board anyway, not much of a change.

They probably should have been different to start with, that's true. I guess if you guys really don't mind thieves as strong as fighters and knights as fast as myrmidons it can be switched back. I didn't like the logical inconsistency and neither did several others.

I kinda wanna be able to have a say on what my caps are. If I want 6 speed and 4 skill, why can't I? It makes so much for sense for Chase, too.

[Snike]

Also, I officially hate Mastery skills for the Gen and the Swordmaster, especially the former. STR-2 for a crit modifier is a bit much, but not too bad, except against armoreds. Gens, on the other hand, can swap between being physical tanks and magical tanks? That's ridiculous. Now even Mages can't toast 'em. ;_;

[-Cynthia-]

Designing your own caps seems like a world of trouble in terms of balance.

I just don't like how everyone is frozen at the same AS value (except for a select few not at 4 Spd). It's kind of odd and very boring and it's going to stay that way for a long time. Either everyone doubles, is doubled, or is even. Of course it's not fair to change just the Spd cap, so the other caps have to change as well.

I would have preferred to implement it from the beginning but obviously couldn't. Possibly could change tier 2 caps.

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Ether]

Changing tier 2 caps is fine with me,as I said.

[Snowy_One]

When you reach a solid decision, let me know.

[Snike]

Quick question: How many points per level, again? I know hitting level 2 nets you 3, but what about class change 1/level3 and level 4?