Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[Snike]

-is tomorrow over here-

Going to bed in 10 minutes.

[-Cynthia-]

They make the wielder plot relevant, but not necessarily capable of extraordinary acts. There's a pretty big difference there. The only original description of the CWs was that they help defeat the LoAF, not that they're necessarily special/more powerful in other ways.

Balancing stats is important, but characters should try and be relatively equal outside of stat combat as well. Having one character who is capable of super incredible acts while others are average joes is wrong.

Edited June 24, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Dark Sage]

Going to bed in 5 minutes.

[Phoenix]

Well the Crimson Weapons are said to be the only things that kill the Lord of Azure Flames. If you recall, I suggested once that the Crimson Weapons have more abilities as the player levels up. Well now, if we want to keep the cinematic element of them, we can add special attacks to them that drain more hp and have a awesome effect. How's that?

That won't help because greater hp drain reduces combat effectiveness. Giving them greater hp draining effects is only going to make them more vulnerable in combat. Even less effective than normal units.

EDIT:

Goodnight Kiryn ^_^

EDIT2:

@ Cynthia

Ixion: Morality is meaningless -_-

So you're throwing up the Superman>Batman argument?

Edited June 24, 2010 by Phoenix

[Snike]

Suggesting stat boosts for wielders. And greater personal misfortune/drawbacks for some. Though, suffering is probably the one thing Eric can't be beat at.

Edit: I should clarify that. Stat boosts whenever they reach second or third tier, depending on how long this RP is going to last.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Snike

[Dark Sage]

So we go with my original idea then.

Ok. I'll stat out the boosts tommorow.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't really approve of giving characters special boosts because they're plot relevant and for the most part they signed up the earliest.

As for misfortunes/drawbacks, I don't really feel like including them for Morgan at least. Giving her angsty emo dreams or whatever doesn't make sense, she's had the thing for like 19 years. Not like her life has been all that grand (probably worse than any other wielder all in all, she just doesn't complain about it). Midnight is part of who Morgan is, there isn't a life before it and Morgan probably doesn't know what she would do without it.

[Snike]

I don't really approve of giving characters special boosts because they're plot relevant and for the most part they signed up the earliest.

As for misfortunes/drawbacks, I don't really feel like including them for Morgan at least. Giving her angsty emo dreams or whatever doesn't make sense, she's had the thing for like 19 years. Not like her life has been all that grand (probably worse than any other wielder all in all, she just doesn't complain about it). Midnight is part of who Morgan is, there isn't a life before it and Morgan probably doesn't know what she would do without it.

>.> Right, forgot, she's moralless/soulless. There's the deficiency.

So, uh, is she ever going to really get some development?

Also: filler arc! Morgan - Midnight!

OK, going to bed. Night all.

[Phoenix]

@ Cynthia

Midnight is boring ... just saying.

It just feels like the other CWs are just not relevant beyond being fillers to give us a total of nine. That's all I'm saying there.

As for CWs being better than everybody else, you'd think that comes with the territory, but you're balancing that out yourself with Morgan's CW blandness so I don't see the problem there.

EDIT:

Goodnight Snike ^_^

Edited June 24, 2010 by Phoenix

[Dark Sage]

All right. Vote if you want to me to stat out boosts for the weapons for 2nd-3rd tier wielders.

Anyway I'm going to bed now. Night all.

[-Cynthia-]

I intentionally made it that way. I don't think certain people should get super awesome speshul weapons while most of the characters get zip because they signed up later. Not fair.

The blandness does not cancel out other people's amazing superpowers. I don't mind people having difficulties/talking etc., but being capable of superhuman feats really throws the power balance out the window.

CW Wielder: Hey look at all the kewl stuff I can do

New person: Wow can I do kewl stuff?

CW Wielder: No, they're all taken

@Snike Possibly. her conversations with Tessa were going to head in that direction eventually. She might not ever change though, depending on circumstances.

Edited June 24, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Phoenix]

@ Cynthia

Iso hasn't actually done anything all that super powerful with Proxima anyway. About the closest to OP he ever got was killing the demon horde. Every other incident has been explained:

Giant explosion during recruitment: It wasn't initially a very large explosion at all, it was only loud. It became a massive explosion through other people's posts(don't believe me? go and check, it was kind of funny).

Attack on Ivanko: The blast was massive but couldn't kill anyone with high res, or even someone with moderate res like Ivanko. Even Victor was unharmed. That's no OP, just cinematic chaotic.

Incineration of bandit: Proxima concentrated an attack onto one person(the equivalent of a critical hit) and burned them to death. Not OP.

Protective barrier for Katie: Haven't you seen the X-Men movies(X-Men 2-3 specifically)? Twisting fire around someone doesn't have to end in them dying if the bubble is broad enough, which we'll assume for convenience's sake was(and ignoring the fact that Iso's been covered in Proxima's flames numerous times and never been hurt).

Shockwave(that burned the forest): I asked if I could end the fight, and afterwards no one whined to much about it. I just had to make sure that Iso suffered a great enough injury to make him go "I'm dying, please take these guys with me blahaaaah!".

[-Cynthia-]

I actually haven't had that many problems with things thus far (mainly because it hasn't actually been that useful in most circumstances), but I don't think it should be expected for the CWs to be displaying massive feats of magic left and right either. It's not in their original description that they're causing avalanches or whatever, so such things should probably be kept to a minimum for balance purposes.

Oh and as a side note, the misfortune is actually a myth. CW users just happen to have sucky lives for the most part.

Edited June 24, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Balcerzak]

@ Crimson weapons

I'll be honest with you guys. I find the crimson weapons as a whole to be rather boring and almost irrelevant to the main plot outside of being needed to stab some DK.

I don't see why this is a problem actually. Canon says this about them:

Forged of Light magic and hellfire from the shards of crystal that formed when the emblem sealed away the dark god, the Crimson weapons are truly terrifying feats of arcane power and sheer ferocious might. Are they magical weapons capable of hiding their terrifying power under the guise of normal iron and steel? Or are they demonic entities of their own accord, bound to their masters soul? What is known is that each of these weapons has great power held within, but that power comes at a terrible cost, as they slowly eat away at their users life force. These weapons appear at their masters call, replacing whatever weapon or tome was in their hand and remain there until dismissed. Each weapon contained a distinctive red hue and coloration to it, setting it apart from other weapons and spells visually. Upon the creation of the final weapon, they were scattered and hidden by their creators, each taking it to a human that they felt could be trusted to either hide the blade, or use it well. Those who possess one often blame it as the source of all their problems, yet cannot discard the weapon (thought they can dismiss it) for it is bound to them.

What we learn from this passage is:

1) Forging the weapons was an impressive feat.

2) They have might beyond that capable of normal weapons, but this comes at a cost.

3) Opinions on the source of power differ.

4) They can be summoned at a moments notice.

5) They are often blamed for misfortune.

NB: This does not indicate that they are actually the cause of misfortune!

6) They cannot be discarded.

Add in the only other definitive claim about the CW

One of the six, a blacksmith whom had taken up the lance, shattered the crystals before they could rip apart the emblem through their immense pressure. Taking the hellfire, he tempered it with Light magic and created the Crimson Blades, mighty weapons to be used against the Lord of Azure Flame and his followers should he ever break loose.

7) The were intended to be used against demons and the LoAF.

NB: This doesn't even say that they are necessary (indeed, past history gives that such is emphatically not the case), nor even that they will be successful in this regard (the forger's intentions don't matter for jack when it actually comes to seeing how a weapon actually fares).

As far as good rping goes, Me, Ether, and Lightning sometimes fall a bit short, but as far as making the crimson weapons more hellfire forged cursed problems in blade/tome form, we're ahead of the pack.

If I didn't know better, I'd have to assume that Cynthia and Kiryn don't even remember that they have CWs half the time. That's just the impression you're left with. These things are the cause of our problems but most people don't want to act like the are. I'd tone down the Proxima incidents if the other CWs were a little more at the forefront of our daily lives. The best we get are Ether's mercing sprees and Esphyr's chats with her sword.

That's just your interpretation. By no means the sole interpretation. A perfectly valid interpretation to be taken in-game by your characters, but complaining that others don't share the same out-game interpretation of what the CW are or are not supposed to be is silly.

@ Cynthia

It's not a god modding excuse, it's cinematic flavor. If we never had weapon incidents, there'd be no need for the CWs in the first place. As far as equality among CWs and normal people I don't think that really matters. Balancing stats is one thing, but balancing relevance isn't important. You were the one that didn't want Viv to join because she didn't seem relevant, but if she did join you would want her to matter as much as a CW, or at least be close?

There is no real need for the CW, except as a means of providing the forming nucleus and attempting to lead around plot. "Weapon incidents" are not required, "actual usefulness" against LoAF is not required, ridiculous "cinematic" bullshit is not required.

Well the Crimson Weapons are said to be the only things that kill the Lord of Azure Flames. If you recall, I suggested once that the Crimson Weapons have more abilities as the player levels up. Well now, if we want to keep the cinematic element of them, we can add special attacks to them that drain more hp and have a awesome effect. How's that?

This was only ever stated as a belief of Morgan's, and may or may not be the case.

Adding additional special attacks or powers is ridiculous, and a bad idea.

On that vein:

All right. Vote if you want to me to stat out boosts for the weapons for 2nd-3rd tier wielders.

Hell no. Don't even.

They make the wielder plot relevant, but not necessarily capable of extraordinary acts. There's a pretty big difference there. The only original description of the CWs was that they help defeat the LoAF, not that they're necessarily special/more powerful in other ways.

Balancing stats is important, but characters should try and be relatively equal outside of stat combat as well. Having one character who is capable of super incredible acts while others are average joes is wrong.

Quote for Truth.

[Ether]

Since I keep missing the combats,I am actually going to take that EXP from the Bandits/Jones/Dalton fight that I didn't apply earlier...

That is 15 Exp for Aiya and 20 for Damian

[riariadne]

You're not counting the existing EXP, correct?

[Ether]

I am not.

Damian killed a Bandit and Jones,so 10 each.

Aiya killed a bandit and hit Dalton,so 10 and 5

[riariadne]

K, just checking.

[Dark Sage]

Ok then. No new abilities for the Crimson Weapons then.

Still, if the Crimson Weapons aren't necessary to defeat the Lord of Azure Flames, then what's the point of them? I mean yeah, they're uber powerful, but on the other hand it just makes more sense if they are necessary.

[Phoenix]

@ Bal

You keep going on about what's "required" but that only has to do the main plot, which is sketchy at this point anyway. There are loads of things that aren't "required" that we still use; Supports, extra party members, plot gold, character backstories(you know these aren't truly that important in the scheme of things), character sprites, or even mount names. I'm not ditching something just because we can get by without it.

I add cinematic bullsh*t as you put it for flavor that the rp just doesn't have on its own anymore. As far as CWs being uber powerful, I honestly don't care either way. I was just using the general interpretation of them as an excuse at that moment to justify what I was doing, not as some all important foundation for justifying all of my actions. As I said, Proxima wasn't even able too damage or injure Ivanko a low res type class.

@ Cynthia

2 things

Thing 1: Proxima has only been doing the thing's it's generally known for for the past four months. Before that, Iso was on par with Esphyr control-wise. Now he has a short list of side effects unrelated to being a CW, and he has random explosive incidents like the one where he was first recruited.

Thing 2: ^That sh*t can be fixed at any time. I planned to give Iso a condition that could be cured at any time during the story(the one thing Cuddles couldn't sabotage). In case you're wondering, curing the condition would completely stop the following from ever happening again:

Iso losing control followed by an explosion

Total obliviousness

Loss of emotional sense

Etc.

I'd put Katie obsession on the list to just screw with you but I prefer honesty to false motivation :D

@ Dark Sage

Some people seem tired of CW relevance so they definitely aren't getting beefed up anymore, but the CW theme as a whole is pretty much broken. We would probably be better off with rank S weapons like the ones from FE7(Rex Hasta, Luce, Reinfleche, Regal Blade, etc) since hellfire weapons are relatively harmless until used in combat(not sarcasm).

[Snowy_One]

Nyuggg... Morning. Not sure what to do ATM though.

[Dark Sage]

@ Dark Sage

Some people seem tired of CW relevance so they definitely aren't getting beefed up anymore, but the CW theme as a whole is pretty much broken. We would probably be better off with rank S weapons like the ones from FE7(Rex Hasta, Luce, Reinfleche, Regal Blade, etc) since hellfire weapons are relatively harmless until used in combat(not sarcasm).

Broken? It's a 1 hp loss per hit and only a +1 bonus in might which in the middle of combat, is actually pretty risky. The hp loss allows for strategy in which weapon to use. You know what? Crimson Weapon power is ok in stats, but a few cinematics with the spells couldn't hurt.

Anyway, the Crimson Weapons like I said are one of the two main elements the plot revolves around, so it makes perfect sense that they'd be brought up a lot and have a large focus.

[Inactive Account]

@Snowy: Well, Esphyr's target just vanished and Katie was just nearly stabbed/has Isotov about to collapse on her...

Man, I need to work out what to do with my characters. Kelas: coming back from Shanice-hunting. Arrin: panic/triage. Wheeeee...

RE CW stuff: If we give them more buffs and much more relevance than they already have, all of the other characters, besides maybe the healers, will likely be left in the dust, tagging along with a core group that completely overshadows them power-wise. Suddenly a lot of people will have less reason to play, because they aren't controlling one of the plot-relevant nine.

The other thing is that while I think increased relevance could possibly work in the future, it doesn't really fit right at this moment in the story. We're currently on the run, looking for some safe place to rest up such that we can sit for a moment and plan and redirect our energies into seeking out the LoAF. When we're encountering more demonic enemies than human ones (which looks like it's starting to happen), increased attention to the weapons makes sense (while still keeping it at a level that doesn't shut non-wielders out); it's just not great for right now.

Some cinematics are fine too, just not too often, in my book.

Edited June 24, 2010 by The Clockwork Alchemist

[Phoenix]

@ Sage

I didn't mean they were broken stat-wise. I said the CW theme was broken. These are essentially just anti demon weapons/slayer weapons(we have no actual advantage against demons though as the two battles before this one clearly demonstrated). If these are hellfire weapons then the least we should be able to do is wipe out demons with them, but even that get's cross examined biasly.

EDIT:

Why is Katie on the character ranking list in the first place? She's an NPC. With the party all the time or not isn't much different from being with the party some of the time, especially since only about a week and a half has gone by.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Phoenix

[Dark Sage]

Well a good story idea to justify them not being able to do that is to say they lost power over the years. Simple and elegant.