Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[Phoenix]

I actually enjoyed reading Bal's example with Tessa and Arrin (+Kelas)

It's a prime example of natural flow vs Bulk dumping of information.

Snike, despite being new, may have a point there, a character shouldn't be achieving several supports in the course of one chapter, (developing sure, no problem) An obvious note to make here is that supports don't carry over, (AKA: I didn't have a support in chapter 1~3 so I can have 4 supports in this chapter right? Wrong! <_<)

Technically, Isotov hasn't even known Katie for 24 hours yet. Mind you, they slept in that 24 hour period, and didn't exactly spend most of the time awake together either.

Support developing started with the sandwich basket, and by afternoon you've already developed the support. A bit quick don't you think?

It was that or wait five extra chapters while we sort out all this stuff. If you want the convo undone just say so. Stop beating around the bush.

I guess I'm just looking at chapter three and four as Iso's catch up chapters.

Just to be clear with the two "independants" their response should be

"Yeah they should have a support"

Not

"yeah, whatever, I'll support it"

Though it won't be enforced, if you're unsure then chances are it shouldn't be approved (by that individual)

Fortunately in this group, we don't have major friendship networks for this to become biased "Yeah my friends support me no matter what" so theoretically, it should work.

Speaking of healing, the issue of multiple kills has gone out the window, (Eg Bals player/enemy phase comments, and the overall issue with 2~3 people taking 90% of the kills)

Probably should consolidate a final post for Snowy to read, instead these past.... 3 pages+ or discussion.

I'll leave that to the ill person.

Addition: Response to Phoenix's latest post.

We've found a problem, and are discussing it now? I don't know where you're trying to go here, you're saying we discuss problems when we come across them, yet don't seem to acknowledge we've come across one (or several) and hence the point of this discussion.

You're misinterpreting most of what I say.

I never said there wasn't a problem. I was giving you an example of what we should do when a problem occurs. We're in the process of solving problems right now, but I was giving you an example of procedure.

Chart:

Makes no sense, one side says friends, the other say Getting to know, there's a distinct difference between the two, and frankly Kamilla's getting to know everyone right now (and not liking them) does that mean C with me and everyone else?

What doesn't make sense is you're using the support conversation (which occurs after support points are adequate) to validate the "getting to know part."

The support conversation shouldn't add to your support points, you should have "gotten to know her" before the support was achieved.

It makes plenty of sense if you read it correctly. There are multiple types of supports. Some start off personal, some become personal, and some become personal at an even slower rate than normal(example, IsoxKatie convo). The "Get to know you" support type is a convo that will normally establish that you are definitely an ally attitude toward each other. That's it's purpose. I think you guys are being dominated by preconceptions though I do perfectly understand what you're trying to say. Nonetheless if you can't let what happened go, you're just going to keep beating a dead horse.

Democrat: Anarchist, same thing in my eyes.

Supports: See first paragraph

Refine: Not liking this, "leave everything to Snowy" attitude, it's like watching someone who can't speak for themselves, or make decsision or contribute to a mature discussion.

You like to argue. I for one treasure unity/consensus/at oneness more than anything else. The rp runs smoother when we're all in submission to authority. Debating every little thing even after a decision is made is what congress does. I hate politics and I won't be apart of it. So I leave the final word to the person who created the rp in the first place, Snowy. If I have an opinion, I'll voice it, but if the final word comes down, I'm not going to whine about it. It's a waste of energy.

Iso Disposition: It's his fault from everyones perspective, and his inability to control Proxima is his problem. If he decides to keep his lack of control quiet, then finger pointing is inevitable and hence it "IS" his fault. Again, it's your character, but I'm going to have to ignore your "Don't disturb this" messages if you're going to be counter-productive to the general improvement of the group, since at the moment, I'd diagnose you as ill, suffering from "I love my characters too much"

Tamper with mandatory events, and I will have you shot, Miss

On a less threatening note, there's nothing counter productive about Iso's behavior. I had it all planned out, even after the inn burning. Iso was going to avoid the group from the very beginning. It has nothing to do with their blaming him. Iso has spent the last ten years trying to avoid the very situation he's in right now. Can you imagine this from his perspective?

Let me say it again to be clear ...

From the time I created Iso, he was going to do EXACTLY what he does now. He can't be a true ally in the group until a little later. There's nothing counterproductive about what's coming.

Overall, you seem to have developed plans and refuse to alter them unless Snowy tells you that it doesn't fit with the world, as said prior, this will feel extremely unnatural. (Even snowy adapts, eg Criminal status)

My plans don't hurt anyone else's, they don't hurt the story plot, they don't slow down the group, and they'll give us a bit of a challenge down the road. Why fix what isn't broken? They don't change because nothing has happened that would make changing them even remotely realistic, or practical. Changing my plans without reason is a wasted exercise :/

[Balcerzak]

I probably have a few more comments, but it's hours past when I should have went to bed, and I should probably also step back, cool down, sleep on things, and then see if what I want to say still needs to be said. I've probably already done too much talking here tonight. I don't really intend to stir up trouble, so apologize if I have.

[Phoenix]

I probably have a few more comments, but it's hours past when I should have went to bed, and I should probably also step back, cool down, sleep on things, and then see if what I want to say still needs to be said. I've probably already done too much talking here tonight. I don't really intend to stir up trouble, so apologize if I have.

No trouble, so long as the rp improves from the engagement ... though now that you mention it I do have a headache from all of this >_<

[Snowy_One]

I'M BACK! I'M BACK!

Sorry for being gone. I tried logging in multiple times, only to get a strange message. Something about a error accessing the database. Anyways, I'm back. What's happened?

[riariadne]

That happened to everyone for a while actually. I think it was just fixed.

I think that certain characters should already have supports, personally, if Phoenix's counted. For example, I would easily have a C Morgan/ C Kelas support, maybe C Tessa even. Either we need a more strict support system or gain supports now based on the conversations we've had.

[Snowy_One]

I'm okay with having supports needing approval from other people first.

[riariadne]

I'll take those support as long as they agree. That okay?

[Snowy_One]

>.> <,<

I... think I would need to look them over.

[Balcerzak]

I'M BACK! I'M BACK!

Sorry for being gone. I tried logging in multiple times, only to get a strange message. Something about a error accessing the database. Anyways, I'm back. What's happened?

Sitewide glitch. Probably responsible for Lacuna's multipost. It was down since at least noon Saturday (GMT+2) to just a few hours ago.

Also, Rein, Tessa had healed you, but if you still wanna guard Iso et al. that's cool too.

I'm trying to figure out an appropriate post to make here. Might take a bit.

[Kanami]

Is Phoenix okay? Someone find him! Quick! I haven't flamed him for two days and I'm starting to worry about his mental health. But yeah, Serenes issue, not yours Snowy. (Wishing they'd have given us warning)

[-Cynthia-]

I think Chase needs a little more interaction before he gets any supports actually. In general, I'm kind of opposed to any of the newer characters (anyone who joined after Vaorin) gaining supports as of right now, unless they had prior friendship with another character or had a ton of interaction with a certain character in the last few chapters, which I don't think happened in any cases.

I think that the general consensus was that Isotov/Katie's support doesn't count, because that overturns some previous rules on supports.

Personally the only characters I feel should have a support right now that don't already are Kelas/Arrin (it feels awkward to have one sibling pair support, but another not IMO). There are a few other pairs that are about a conversation away from a support, and a number of other pairs that have started to get to know wach other but aren't really close to being friends yet. That's just how I see it though.

[Snowy_One]

Whew. I was panicing over the past few days thinking I did something. Ah well. At least I found a dig site to call my own over the undesired break!

[Kanami]

In regards to the conversation between Katie and Isotov, I'd say there's no "need" to remove it. Since it could just be considered another RP post, and it reveals something (I'm not sure what) about Katie, and it's a good indicator of the two "starting" to communicate.

@Phoenix's chunky post

I could comment on all of those but to sum things up.

You're arguments usally have no base, other then "Leave it to Snowy"

Problem solving method:

You're not making sense,

-You're outlining a procedure to take when a problem occurs (as they happen)

-We're discussing it now. (Completing the procedure)

What's the point in suggesting something we're already doing?

Supports:

Different level of supports I agree, but if the standards are so low, I've given Arrin/Tessa (and Morgan since she was hiding away) a lecture on religions, does that mean I should be supporting them? I don't know what you're definition of support is, but for the sake of "unity/consensus/at oneness" for all, wouldn't it be best to set a standard, and then have everyone follow it? Instead of saying there's a hundreds of types of supports?

You'll shoot me with what? Fire? What are you going to burn down next?

[-Cynthia-]

I don't think the conversation itself should go, just the indication that it's a C support.

As for definition of a support...that's a tricky one. Obviously it requires some sort of interaction between two characters (not necessarily one on one, though they do need to talk to each other). The characters should share something about their beliefs/past/feelings etc. And at the point where you can call it a C support, you should be able to say that the characters are friends (not necessarily good friends, that's probably a B).

Edited May 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Snowy_One]

It's hard to have just one type and then go about and claim that we are allowing people to build up supports how they please so long as they submit it to us for final review. In FE, not all supports initially start off as friendships. Hector/Florina has Hector not even knowing Florina is there until the A IIRC and I'm sure I could find one where they are arguing and fighting. I would much rather not claim to have 'one type' of support and instead just say that someone needs approval and that, in of itself, a single massive conglamorant post is not a support level. Beyond that, I really don't know.

[Snowy_One]

Sadly, this is finals week. I will be gone tomorrow and probably a decent chunk of Tuesday. I'm actually leaving right now to study Soren for Philosophy.

[Balcerzak]

It's hard to have just one type and then go about and claim that we are allowing people to build up supports how they please so long as they submit it to us for final review. In FE, not all supports initially start off as friendships. Hector/Florina has Hector not even knowing Florina is there until the A IIRC and I'm sure I could find one where they are arguing and fighting. I would much rather not claim to have 'one type' of support and instead just say that someone needs approval and that, in of itself, a single massive conglamorant post is not a support level. Beyond that, I really don't know.

Bartre/Raven. But then again, all of Bartre's supports are comedy gold.

Sadly, this is finals week. I will be gone tomorrow and probably a decent chunk of Tuesday. I'm actually leaving right now to study Soren for Philosophy.

Existentialism, huh? Good luck on that. Hmm, Knight of Faith and Knight of Resignation was it?

[Kanami]

I really don't agree with using FE as an example though, in FE dialogue is... rather limited, and it should be assumed that in between support conversations, the characters are still interacting. The Isotov/Katie support seems to a 2 step procedure, and technically you shouldn't be achieving a support with a character you just recruited (No, it's not possible, not unless you intentionally finish the map, and keep ending turn for X amount of turns to get the support) And even if you did "Keep ending turn" the dialogue between them hasn't been enough to warrant a C.

And as I've been saying (as well as others) if that were the case, the everyone, perhaps even Kamilla should have a C support by now.

I can see your point regarding complications and a single definition. So I'll retract that, but I still think that the best way to go is the Participants+Snowy+2 Independant method.

An alternative is, you post a support and have it reviewed by everyone and if 3~4 people say "no" then support failed. But I still think the former option is a better method.

I'm not even sure what's causing the confusion here, It's a matter of

"Should Snowy's word take into consideration the opinion of members or not"

And from the looks of this, the dominant opinion seems to be "No, the support shouldn't count" or "I don't care and I won't argue for either side" Has anyone actually supported the idea that enough has been done besides Phoenix and Snowy?

EDIT: Good luck with studying then :P

Edited May 10, 2010 by Nadesico

[Inactive Account]

Holy multipost, Batman... damn, I'm sorry, I don't even know how I managed that. Stupid glitch.

Aaaaand now back to our scheduled RP...

(I have been reading the bit about supports, but I'm fine with whatever we go with.)

[-Cynthia-]

What exactly would you posting for a support? I assume it would just be the pairing, and it would be up to everyone else to analyze all their interactions thus far, not just judge based off of their last conversation.

[Kanami]

Well there's two ways to go about it in my opinion,

1: You PM Snowy+2 if you think you've done enough for a support, if so then you start writing it up. (Or just post "can I support with (name)" when you think you've done enough.

2: Or as I said, you write up a post like Phoenix did, and then post it in the boards, but as an application for supports, if people disagree with it, I'm sure someone will mention it in an OoC or here.

Counter- But I wrote up so much and there's not much else I can write about.

Answer- If your character can only make 4 support conversation, chances are, your character hasn't had enough work put into them and shouldn't be supporting at all.

[Phoenix]

Well there's two ways to go about it in my opinion,

1: You PM Snowy+2 if you think you've done enough for a support, if so then you start writing it up. (Or just post "can I support with (name)" when you think you've done enough.

2: Or as I said, you write up a post like Phoenix did, and then post it in the boards, but as an application for supports, if people disagree with it, I'm sure someone will mention it in an OoC or here.

Counter- But I wrote up so much and there's not much else I can write about.

Answer- If your character can only make 4 support conversation, chances are, your character hasn't had enough work put into them and shouldn't be supporting at all.

Either seem perfectly reasonable in hindsight -_-

[Inactive Account]

...Wasn't there a post in the signup topic with quick bios for the heroes? I can't find it now...

[Phoenix]

Yeah there was, but it's probably a few pages back now

[Snowy_One]

We seem fairly well defined. Though... If you are going to PM me... PLEASE INCLUDE SOME REFERENCES! Jeez! I know some people desire to think of me as all-knowing and following everything, but that simply isn't true. I can't follow everything. Sure, I try, but if you're going to have Zuko and Aang try for any level of support, please at least give me some ground to work with.

And thank you for your help. All of you.