Legend of zelda series ( Gripes and thoughts)

[Squidorsky]

Zelda is one of those crazy cool series that manages to find it's place in everyones heart. For me I was first introduced to zelda...through smash bros for the n64. It was a long time ago and i honestly thought link was some kind a parrot man...( Hey! I was pretty young!)

but i soon feel in love with th eseries and this parrot man became the great hero named link that would act as a huge influence on my life. ( Well not life changing but still...A role model i suppose. Maybe that explains why i barely talk to people...Just kidding.)

I soon discovered the manga adaptations of LOZ games and the 80's cartoon ( And eventually those god awful CD-I games.) and i began to think it's time for this silent hero to talk!

Gasp! NO!! Absolutely not! It would tear a rip in the universe! I'll kill nintendo if they do that!!

You may be saying some of the above...but why?

What's so wrong about him having a voice? (The cd-i games don't count because that was not made by nintendo! It was all Phillips' fault!)

Doesn't it seem awkward to some that the dialogue goes like this:

Zelda: Will you go on this quest to save hyrule?

Link:....

Z: Please?

Link: No

Zelda: Hyrule needs you! Please will you go!

Link: Yes

Zelda: Great!

Most options link has for talking are generally one sided, they give you the choice to say no but ultimately you must press yes.

But some would say that link is supposed to be you. But this really isn't the case anymore, it was during the nes years but as time passed link became his own character. he shows emotion in his face specifically in wind waker and Twilight princess. He shows concern for tetra, for his sister. In TP he shows hate towards Zant and ganondorf, sorrow when midna almost dies ( Both times) and relief when he finds that she is alive and the end, and love for her at the end.

I can't say I had much of those feelings running through my head as I did any of that, after all it's a game...we shouldn't be a part of it, just along for the ride. Consider video games to be like books for a sec. You would not write yourself into harry potter while harry says nothing the whole time...it just seems dumb!

That's precisely what zelda feels like though. it like someone took a beautiful play and removed all the parts of one character namely the main character and said, no put yourself in this instead. Would any play be as good as it is today?

Long long story short i think link should speak in this new upcoming game. It would be a huge change and a huge risk ( I don't think it would be but many do) but that's how you innovate and make the next big thing! By taking those risks! Square enix switched from turn based final fantasies to the ATB system and look how well that did.

In the early years of the gamecube metroid prime was released and many fans thought it was going to ruin the metroid series...yet look at it now! Three FPS metroid game slater from that and people love it! Why can't the zelda team switch things up for once, throw us something we didn't think would happen.

Lately all the zelda's have all be rehashes of OOT and earlier games. The master sword...three dungeons to get it, kill ganon with it...It's all been the same! Make ganon and link be friends until ganon betrays link! Make Link a knight of hyrule this time not some rancher, Make link a wash out living in the gerudo desert getting by by fighting in a colosseum, make hyrule be locked in a war where on hyrule field at one point in the story you must fight a whole army of moblins and sinister people with the help of hyrule's knight.

Imagine a zelda game starting with the initial cause for starting the adventure was because of a war! It throws you down in the middle of a huge battle and you begin fighting you way through to zelda and the story begins. Give link a voice, change his look, give him long hair, give him a more knightly outfit. I don't know just make it different!

So link i say to you raise your sword, equip your shield and let your voice be heard throughout all of Hyrule!

-Eriad-

After comment: This turned out more like an article than a post but do tell what you think! Yes on link speaking, or perhaps no. but do explain why...not through some boring one comment answer. Maybe you have some ideas that i didn't list, some thoughts on Zelda in general. Let's hear your thoughts!

[NinjaMonkey]

Doesn't it seem awkward to some that the dialogue goes like this:

Zelda: Will you go on this quest to save hyrule?

Link:....

Z: Please?

Link: No

Zelda: Hyrule needs you! Please will you go!

Link: Yes

Zelda: Great!

You forgot the ever so cheesy "EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME, PRINCESS!" line, which seemed to be in every episode of that 80's cartoon show.

Anyway, I don't see why Link needs to talk to be honest. I actually like the idea of him not talking (and if not talking is good enough for Mario - apart from the odd soundbite - a few yells and grunts is good enough for Link.

Besides, look at the example of Tom and Jerry: All throughout the T&J cartoons neither of them spoke (apart from the odd yelp) and everything was fine. As soon as the film comes along and both of them start speaking, everything is ruined (starting with my childhood).

Edited April 15, 2010 by NinjaMonkey

[Squidorsky]

Well, EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME, Ninja monkey!

Ahem...

I don't know it just seems...outdated...Even though that was how my childhood was with the older zelda's (and even tom and jerry) not speaking. But you're right there is no reason for him talking...then again there is no reason for him not to talk either.

and if not talking is good enough for Mario

But in the new metroid, ( Which i consider to be legend of zelda's sister series albeit with a girl instead and in the future) Samus talks! Why can't link!

a few yells and grunts is good enough for Link.

Those were also good enough for samus in prime yet now she has graduated to voice acting. Shouldn't everyone's favorite green clad hero "graduate" too?

It might be a bomb, but it might also shed a new light, a new view on age old series. I say it's worth a shot, why not at least try it! That's my opinion though of course...

-Eriad-

Edited April 15, 2010 by Eriad

[Original Alear]

Zelda: Will you go on this quest to save hyrule?

Link:....

Z: Please?

Link: No

Zelda: Hyrule needs you! Please will you go!

Link: Yes

Zelda: Great!

See the original comics at http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5256/butthoumust.png

[Narga_Rocks]

Lately all the zelda's have all be rehashes of OOT and earlier games. The master sword...three dungeons to get it, kill ganon with it...It's all been the same!

Personally I'd choose LttP for the reference point, considering it did the three dungeons for the Master sword first. I know you said "earlier games", but still, LttP was first for that. The original based getting the best sword off your total hearts, and I don't even remember the second because I played it on an emulator and just wanted to get through it. I can't imagine beating the second without savestates. The first wasn't extremely easy and in some parts was rather difficult (particularly in the second quest fighting 2 blue knights and 3 red knights in one room with two red bubbles and one blue bubble and being unable to leave or even hide in doors) but nothing like the second.

Anyway, I am not sure about the talking. Zelda games are different than things like Final Fantasy. There aren't all that many points in the game for him to speak. More now than in the original on the first Nintendo, of course, but there are still only a few potential conversations. I suppose in TP he could randomly chat with Midna or something. They don't really need talking for the few scenes where people say things to Link, though. It would almost seem out of place. I think to pull off talking they'd have to do it a lot. Cutscenes where he chats to whatever random creature they stick him to (they like doing that now, with the fairy in OOT and Midna in TP) maybe before and after each dungeon. Taunting a boss. Maybe the boss taunts back. I just think they'd have to go all in. Adding random blurbs of dialog in the rare instances that there is anyone to actually talk to in TP, for example, wouldn't (in my opinion) be better than what they have now. While I could accept things like voicing Link asking the people to move when they block the way and force you to go find an item (like heavy boots) to get past them, I just think it wouldn't add much unless they did a lot more than just that.

[Adam Smasher]

I'm going to show my age here, but my first Zelda was Link to the Past (1991). On the whole, I agree, the zelda games are fun and definitely worth the time playing. My problem is that the challenge has gone way down, and they're starting to recycle stuff.

In Link to the Past, you would upgrade your armor twice and the final boss could shoot these fireballs at you that still did 3 hearts worth of damage! There was real tension in that battle and it left you on the edge of your seat. By contrast, in Twilight Princess, the final boss was this huge beastly thing that could trample you doing...half a heart of damage. "Boy I'd better not let him do that 39 more times or I'm in trouble!"

Another problem I have is there are certain elements of Zelda games which are ALWAYS constant. You go through 3 dungeons and get the mastersword, then go through a few more dungeons and save the princess. And the ghost hunting dungeon from Twilight Princess was recycled from Ocarine of Time. Oh yeah and whenever you see an unlit torch, make sure you light it and the door opens.

One thing that really gets to me is that there always has to be music. This started with Link to the Past, but it really got out of control in Ocarina of Time, when there was an ocarina manufacturer that took out advertising space in Nintendo Power. But consider the evolution:

Link to the Past: You get a magic flute/ocarina that summons a bird to carry you accross the map. Very handy, but no big deal.

Link's Awakening: Same magic flute/ocarina but it casts 3 spells. I remember one was Manbo's mambo but I don't remember what any of them did and I think you could play the whole game without it.

Ocarina of Time: The whole Ocarina thing was really innovative, but it made the water temple annoying as hell to get through since you had to play Zelda's lullaby a couple of dozen times to get through the dungeon. I remember getting peeved and pressing the 6 notes rapidly while the game would then say for the 50th time "You played Zelda's Lullaby!" as we watch link dancing in harmony to the song.

Major'as Mask: I never played it so I can't comment.

Windwaker: Now instead of a flute, Link gets to conduct symphonies. Even though it was pretty contrived, the tunes were a lot more catchy that Saria's song.

Twilight Princess: There was no real reason to do this, but the designers decided that link should be able to howl songs while in wolf form.

Another thing that is horribly cliche about Zelda games is the whole "Dual Worlds" theme. I remember reading reviews of Metroid Prime 2 where they slammed it for ripping of Link to the Past for having a world of light and a world of darkness. Then Twilight Princess comes along and rips of Metroid Prime 2 by doing the same thing! One thing Windwaker got right was that they made a Zelda game with only one world. Maybe that's why it was only half as long?

Anyway I'm starting to rant, but you get the idea. The series is stale, IMO, and rather than appeal to seasoned gamers with new stuff, they're recycling old for the new generation. Maybe it's better that way, since they wouldn't bother playing the old games.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm going to show my age here, but my first Zelda was Link to the Past (1991). On the whole, I agree, the zelda games are fun and definitely worth the time playing. My problem is that the challenge has gone way down, and they're starting to recycle stuff.

Yeah, well I've got that beat. I had a gold coloured Legend of Zelda for the Nintendo and it was new at the time. :o

In Link to the Past, you would upgrade your armor twice and the final boss could shoot these fireballs at you that still did 3 hearts worth of damage! There was real tension in that battle and it left you on the edge of your seat. By contrast, in Twilight Princess, the final boss was this huge beastly thing that could trample you doing...half a heart of damage. "Boy I'd better not let him do that 39 more times or I'm in trouble!"

I hate those annoying things that did so much damage. Like those chained balls in LttP in the 7th crystal dungeon that did 3 damage and it was really hard for me to get by without getting hit at least twice. Ick.

Of course, magic cape broke the game, but only when you didn't need another item to do something. Only one item could be used at a time back then.

But yeah, short of the cape trivializing parts of LttP, TP was kinda sad in comparison because it's so hard to actually die.

Link's Awakening: Same magic flute/ocarina but it casts 3 spells. I remember one was Manbo's mambo but I don't remember what any of them did and I think you could play the whole game without it.

Nope, impossible. Well, the one you are talking about you might be able to avoid. I think one just teleported you somewhere. The other two though were necessary to beat the game.

Another thing that is horribly cliche about Zelda games is the whole "Dual Worlds" theme. I remember reading reviews of Metroid Prime 2 where they slammed it for ripping of Link to the Past for having a world of light and a world of darkness. Then Twilight Princess comes along and rips of Metroid Prime 2 by doing the same thing! One thing Windwaker got right was that they made a Zelda game with only one world. Maybe that's why it was only half as long?

I'm sorry, I can agree with your point about them always doing it. Or at least a lot. I think none of the GB games (any system) did that, but I only ever played two of them and Minish cap could maybe count as two worlds anyway because of the big and small worlds.

But I loved the Dark World/Light World thing in LttP and I thought it was great the way they used Twilight in TP.

[Liz]

Yeah, well I've got that beat. I had a gold coloured Legend of Zelda for the Nintendo and it was new at the time. :o

i still have both of my gold colored copies of the Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link

8D

too bad my NES doesn't work anymore.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Cherry Cherry Boom Boom

[Original Alear]

Another problem I have is there are certain elements of Zelda games which are ALWAYS constant. You go through 3 dungeons and get the mastersword, then go through a few more dungeons and save the princess. And the ghost hunting dungeon from Twilight Princess was recycled from Ocarine of Time. Oh yeah and whenever you see an unlit torch, make sure you light it and the door opens.

But they aren't always constant. For instance, in majora's mask we go through four dungeons and there isn't any mastersword or princess hanging around (i.e. no segmentation between "part 1" and "part 2" dungeons). In fact, the only zeldas you mentioned which follow this formula I know of are Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess: the "mainline" console series after the NES zeldas. So it's a significant pattern, but you overstated it.

Again, unlit torches sometimes open doorways or chests but not all unlit torches have such an effect.

I don't have a problem with saying these are interesting and important tendencies, but by saying these themes are "ALWAYS" constant you're like those people who say "I was literally [something that wasn't literally true and they know it wasn't]".

Just because a few things are recycled doesn't mean they are always the same, and I think that (except maybe for the ghost-hunting part) all these recycled elements are done semi-differently enough. It is true that there's usually at least one door in every first dungeon which is opened through a simple "light the torch" mechanic with no other frills, but I see that as more of a nod to the series than anything else.

[Adam Smasher]

But they aren't always constant. For instance, in majora's mask we go through four dungeons and there isn't any mastersword or princess hanging around (i.e. no segmentation between "part 1" and "part 2" dungeons). In fact, the only zeldas you mentioned which follow this formula I know of are Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess: the "mainline" console series after the NES zeldas. So it's a significant pattern, but you overstated it.

Again, unlit torches sometimes open doorways or chests but not all unlit torches have such an effect.

I don't have a problem with saying these are interesting and important tendencies, but by saying these themes are "ALWAYS" constant you're like those people who say "I was literally [something that wasn't literally true and they know it wasn't]".

Just because a few things are recycled doesn't mean they are always the same, and I think that (except maybe for the ghost-hunting part) all these recycled elements are done semi-differently enough. It is true that there's usually at least one door in every first dungeon which is opened through a simple "light the torch" mechanic with no other frills, but I see that as more of a nod to the series than anything else.

Yeah, well, I ALWAYS exaggerate.

think about it.

My complaint with the series is that, (and hopefully you approve of my phraseology) there is a tendencies for some of the puzzles to be rather similar to puzzles from past games and relatively few new challenges.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Adam Smasher

[XxWolfxX]

Yeaah, ok i'll address a couple problems with your quarrels with the LOZ series.

1) should link speak?

IMHO not a chance and some instances theres already way to much talking anyway (imagine if link engaged in a full conversation everytime the old owl came in oot, then they use their mind games to switch the yes and no, so you accidently hit no i don't understand, only to read the entire conversation again.) Or if every time navi said "hey! listen!" you bust out a table and tea and have a conversation. No i think that would make it even more annoying. You compare it to square-enixes games, well crono trigger and the mana series were masterpieces (imo) and those heros didn't talk either.

2) The Master Sword and the tunics:

as previously mentioned above the master sword was actually only in half of the LOZ series. and you only upgrade your tunic in the "A link to the past" otherwise you simply buy the blue tunic in zora domain and red in death mounton goron place. TP well you get tne idea.

3)Princess Zelda: though in theory she should be in all of them but shes actually not even mentioned in four of them, and in zelda I, II, windwaker, her roll in the "the story" is very minimal besides you trying to save her.

4) changing gears in gameplay:

i found your comparisons rather humorous here, Zelda and Metroid both for all intensive purposes made the same gameplay adjustments. metroid went from 2d shooter to first person shooter in 3d, LoZ went from overhead/sidescrolling action adventure to 3rd person 3d action adventure. yes they went back to overhead in the ds/gba games but thats similar to how metroid fusion was also a sidescroller. And ff combat system had to switch gears because they introduced the concept of multiple character develepment rather then everyone having the same exp growth curves.

5)Recycled ideas: You'll find there isn't a single long lasting game series that doesn't reuse concepts over and over again. Does this make the game series stale? Most certainly not because theres always a new twist.

Point is, if you don't want to play it don't, and unless you can do better and please all the fans at once you shouldn't call their masterpiece stale.

NOTE: this isn't really directed towards anyone inparticular just my thoughts.

Edited April 15, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Squidorsky]

Well i definitely see your point, narga rocks, for choosing LTTP as the base for the later games...My first zelda was OOT so that's what popped into my head the most...

Lots of interesting points here...

1) should link speak?

IMHO not a chance and some instances theres already way to much talking anyway (imagine if link engaged in a full conversation everytime the old owl came in oot, then they use their mind games to switch the yes and no, so you accidently hit no i don't understand, only to read the entire conversation again.) Or if every time navi said "hey! listen!" you bust out a table and tea and have a conversation. No i think that would make it even more annoying. You compare it to square-enixes games, well crono trigger and the mana series were masterpieces (imo) and those heros didn't talk either.

2) The Master Sword and the tunics:

as previously mentioned above the master sword was actually only in half of the LOZ series. and you only upgrade your tunic in the "A link to the past" otherwise you simply buy the blue tunic in zora domain and red in death mounton goron place. TP well you get tne idea.

3)Princess Zelda: though in theory she should be in all of them but shes actually not even mentioned in four of them, and in zelda I, II, windwaker, her roll in the "the story" is very minimal besides you trying to save her.

4) changing gears in gameplay:

i found your comparisons rather humorous here, Zelda and Metroid both for all intensive purposes made the same gameplay adjustments. metroid went from 2d shooter to first person shooter in 3d, LoZ went from overhead/sidescrolling action adventure to 3rd person 3d action adventure. yes they went back to overhead in the ds/gba games but thats similar to how metroid fusion was also a sidescroller. And ff combat system had to switch gears because they introduced the concept of multiple character develepment rather then everyone having the same exp growth curves.

5)Recycled ideas: You'll find there isn't a single long lasting game series that doesn't reuse concepts over and over again. Does this make the game series stale? Most certainly not because theres always a new twist.

I know your post wasn't directed towards anyone...but i felt like responding to them in my views. ( It's sort a supposed to be a discussion, right?)

1. But it doesn't have to be like that! Has anyone played the Uncharted games? Albeit they aren't that like zelda, in that you don't collect weapons but in that game you still do a lot of things that i could see happening in a zelda game. The text in those games were short and understandable and quite fun to listen to. In th efirst uncharted you're exploring an ancient temple as nathan drake ( The main character) with this friend sully. If there were simple cutscenes with voice acting like uncharted then maybe it could work like that? That may be true about the chrono trigger stuff but other games from square enix had the main character talking and they were masterpieces as well ( Fina fantasy) So really legend of zelda could go either way, yet it hasn't not even to at least say it did...

2.....Not much to say here, very true stuff

3. Has she ever been really important to the plot? She as one of the series mascots should definitely be more important.

4. Humorous? changing gears? My point with comparing zelda to metroid was that they were similar and since metroid is trying voice acting why should zelda?

5. Unfortunately most of those twists...serve to dull the games. Five hour ocean travel...Really bad wolf thing...The twilight in general( I really hate the wolf mechanic but more so the god awful song that plays when you get into a battle in the twilight...it sounds like they gave a two year old a piano and said two year banged on it for a while and they went with that song. Where's the good music like the dark world theme from ALTTP!

My point is that yes, every long lasting series copies itself especially final fantasy, but there is always one guaranteed difference in those games that sets each apart from the last. The characters. Squall wasn't a thing like tidus, and zidane was nothing like cloud. That always made things take interesting turns. When we are playing as the same guy doing the same thing, fighting the same guy, saving the same girl, with the same sword, there is no suspense or twists or turns to follow. I can't say i've ever been affected by a zelda game that much. Where as final fantasy 10 ( Especially it's ending) hit me hard even though i played the previous game and it followed things from the previous game.

Maybe voice acting is not what zelda needs...My only real gripe is that i want to actually be shocked about the next zelda. I want to be talking about the ending for weeks or even months rather than the one hour that i usually do then its out of my head. I watched Code geass in december of last year and i still can't get the ending out of my head! I know nintendo can do something with that effect, because many of their games have left me shocked to the point of wanting to tell everybody about it, Namely Fire emblem 4 (Specifically the end of chapter 5)

Make him talk or don't, add a difficulty setting, i don't know!

It's time the legend of zelda was told in a new fresh way one that will shake the very foundations of hyrule as we all know it!

( Excuse my lameness....Please note, i am a big fan of zelda! I love the games an di am not tired of the "staleness". after all i do own all of them! so that's not my point for this)

Thanks everyone and let's keep on discussing!

Thoughts on ganondorf? should he come back...again...

-Eriad-

[Mikethfc]

What about doing what they did in MP3 or the RD level intros where they have a voice actor only you have the option of reading the subtitles before they finish and skipping to the next line.

[Hatchet]

Doesn't it seem awkward to some that the dialogue goes like this:

Zelda: Will you go on this quest to save hyrule?

Link:....

Z: Please?

Link: No

Zelda: Hyrule needs you! Please will you go!

Link: Yes

Zelda: Great!

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, SILLY

[XxWolfxX]

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, SILLY

well said sir.

and

@Eriad*: it appears that the changes and twists in the game aren't the problem, its a matter of you personally not liking them, major example: Zelda: Twilight Princess was in fact a VERY different approach to the zelda series, in the sense where link actually has an emotional attactment to his companion, and your NOT trying to save Zelda, your working with her and midna to rid Zant from the twilight realm, in attempt to win The Twilight Princess back her thrown and remove the curse which binds her body, which if you didnt know the twilight princess isn't zelda, its midna. The final chapters (after you defeat zant you find out whos pulling the strings behind the whole scheme, and it actually explains more then him just simply wanting the triforce) couldn't be more different from the rest of them if it tried. don't know about you but this ending caught me off guard -> 'sorry for spoilers' ganondorf takes control of zelda you fight her "possessed", then when you free her from the bond, you fight ganon, followed by fighting him on horseback with zelda, then in a one on one pretty epic dual. Then the ending was midna freed from her curse, link and zelda saying farewell in hopes of seeing her again, but alas she shatters the mirror and link felt sorrow. (quick summary to avoid completely ruining it)

So good sir, what pretell does that have in common with any other LoZ game besides a few game mechanics (i think the only game mechanic in that game that was reused is the "z" targeting system otherwise everything was revamped right down to link riding his horse, NOTE: even the targeting system was revamped due to him actually not just swing his sword around). Link is completely different, as is zelda, (in the sense that they have completely evolved into characters with emotion other then the mentality "must save hyrule")

That was one example of how the game is completely different story wise, i could get into how the puzzles in the game are a lot more inginuitive (especially the boss fights) but somehow your convinced there not. In all honesty, (don't take offense please) i wonder if you actually even played through twilight princess completely.

Oh ya, final fantasy 10 while the in-gameplay "turbo atb system" was a revamped version of the atb, the story was very contridicting, its Yuna's pilgrimage but tidus insisted it was his story, while in the end tidus just turned out to be "bahamut's dream" from the "futuristic past?" to help yuna defeat a giant version of the "main characters dad that lives in a giant flying beluga whale" which is also from the "futuristic past", then fight by far the most disappointing final boss in the history of rpgs, then to have your character disappear because you just "killed" bahamut so the little mysterios boy who is never named anything but "the fayth" woke up. The game ends with tidus giving his dad a hi-five. Yes while i felt bad for Yuna, i was to busy trying to get rid of the wtf just happened to think about it.

So imo there is something to be said for consistant characters/concepts rather then changing it everytime, because at that point its not even a series its more like chain of games with the same name attached.

Link and usually zelda make the LoZ series the LoZ series, Similar to how Samus makes the Metroid series the metroid series, while the only thing thing that makes you know that a game is final fantasy is the title.

i probably could go on an on but my hands are getting tired :P

edit: also note: fire emblem is just produced by nintendo via contract with intelligent systems similar to pokemon.

Edited April 16, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Adam Smasher]

5)Recycled ideas: You'll find there isn't a single long lasting game series that doesn't reuse concepts over and over again. Does this make the game series stale? Most certainly not because theres always a new twist.

I would argue that Mario has constantly reinvented himself with every new game. But let's not derail the thread.

I admit when I used the word "stale" I was being too harsh. My problem is that the games have gotten easier. I can't speak for the handhelds (because there's only one handheld I play with and it doesn't need any cartridges!) but I feel like the quality of the puzzles and the tension in the battles have been lacking lately.

Technically, there's more of a time investment now, since I can beat link to the past in 8 hours but it took me 30 to beat twilight princess. But you didn't need to hunt down bugs or ghosts in link to the past.

I guess the real problem is that I'm a lot smarter than I was when I was 10, and that's why some games are so easy for me.

[riariadne]

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, SILLY

But the pen is mightier than the sword.

At least they aren't making it so we have to write letters to Ganondorf asking him to please stop attacking Hyrule, though, if maybe someone sent a letter once that'd be kinda funny but if they did it twice... just no.

I'd like to hear Link speak a little in major scenes. Not with every guy he sees, but if he actually said anything besides Yes/No every once in a while it'd be great to know that he can speak English (or whatever language it is) and not just shout at stuff. Seriously, is he just going to sit there and watch if someone gets captured right in front of his nose?

The instrument system was good, but if you make it to the point where you have to do it a ton it gets annoying. Take Spirit Tracks, though: you play the Song of Awakening every once in a while (and btw that's a pretty awesome little melody) and it's all good. The Wind Waker has this pain in the ass wind system that's so damn annoying. I don't WANT to have to change the direction of the wind, dammit, I'd prefer to see Link row to the islands or something.

That's my 2 cents.

[XxWolfxX]

But the pen is mightier than the sword.

At least they aren't making it so we have to write letters to Ganondorf asking him to please stop attacking Hyrule, though, if maybe someone sent a letter once that'd be kinda funny but if they did it twice... just no.

I'd like to hear Link speak a little in major scenes. Not with every guy he sees, but if he actually said anything besides Yes/No every once in a while it'd be great to know that he can speak English (or whatever language it is) and not just shout at stuff. Seriously, is he just going to sit there and watch if someone gets captured right in front of his nose?

The instrument system was good, but if you make it to the point where you have to do it a ton it gets annoying. Take Spirit Tracks, though: you play the Song of Awakening every once in a while (and btw that's a pretty awesome little melody) and it's all good. The Wind Waker has this pain in the ass wind system that's so damn annoying. I don't WANT to have to change the direction of the wind, dammit, I'd prefer to see Link row to the islands or something.

That's my 2 cents.

point well taken there,

LoZ, like most every long game series there are most certainly a one or two games in it that just piss you off, and make you go, "just why?"

Wind Waker, and Majora's Mask were the Zelda ones for me, they had game mechanics that were just assanine at best.

other examples are:

Final Fantasy XII's battle system was like watching a fly hump a wall, then they realesed the sequal "FFXII: Revenant Wings" that really made you appreciate wall humping.

Mario 64, the fact that they decided to make you redo the stage everytime you get one out of the "x" stars in given stage until you have them all was rediculous, only to get yoshi that you can't even use.

and yes i suppose Oot hunting 100 golden spiders to get a measly 200 rupees that i couldve gotten in the lost woods, did make me want take a hammer to the game.

But thats no worse then dodging 200 thunderbolts in ffx to get lulus crest. Or beating the Omega Weapon in ff8 just to get an item you could of gotten by refining a card.

I call those wtf moments, and zelda is certainly not the only game series that has them. :P

Edited April 16, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Squidorsky]

Hm...You know what i think about zelda!

It's that i don't think...Everytime XxWolfxX has posted i realized that they were more deeper than they seemed ( Or than i remebered them being.)

The way XxWolfxX seems to put twilight princess makes it sound like a master piece!

Yet ( to me) It was not.

Maybe it was the wolf for me or the windwaker for others or the diffuculty not being what it used to but i realize why this happens, it's to try and please those who may want that new stuff. each "Gimmick is a way to please a new set or even an old set of zelda fans. But even through this "Experimenting" each zelda game manages to be a good game. ( I hated the wolf gimmick in Twilight princess but other than that i throughly enjoyed the game.) Upon further thought i think this series is most likely not "rehashed" per se, but a means to slowly catch the best things from each zelda. Like running a skimmer through a pool, you keep the good stuff and drop the rest. (Not sure that the metphor made sense but hopefully you understood it...)

Some people hated majora's mask ( Like XxWolfxX) but i personally loved it. Some may have hated Link's awakening, i thought it was one of the best. some may have loved twilight princess, i didn't. it just goes to show the earlier point some one mentioned that you can't please everyone. But at least nintendo tries, and i'm more than positive that's exactly what nintendo is trying to do for the next game. Well...I'm done being wishy washy...Basically, yes i do like zelda, yes it has a special place in my heart, yes i was just being a whiner, most of all nintendo keep doing what ever it is that you do in zelda games that makes them such endearing games.

Alrighty then, I'm sort of out of material to talk about so...yeah...

Until E3!

-Eriad-

Edited April 17, 2010 by Eriad

[XxWolfxX]

Hm...You know what i think about zelda!

It's that i don't think...Everytime XxWolfxX has posted i realized that they were more deeper than they seemed ( Or than i remebered them being.)

The way XxWolfxX seems to put twilight princess makes it sound like a master piece!

Yet ( to me) It was not.

Maybe it was the wolf for me or the windwaker for others or the diffuculty not being what it used to but i realize why this happens, it's to try and please those who may want that new stuff. each "Gimmick is a way to please a new set or even an old set of zelda fans. But even through this "Experimenting" each zelda game manages to be a good game. ( I hated the wolf gimmick in Twilight princess but other than that i throughly enjoyed the game.) Upon further thought i think this series is most likely not "rehashed" per se, but a means to slowly catch the best things from each zelda. Like running a skimmer through a pool, you keep the good stuff and drop the rest. (Not sure that the metphor made sense but hopefully you understood it...)

Some people hated majora's mask ( Like XxWolfxX) but i personally loved it. Some may have hated Link's awakening, i thought it was one of the best. some may have loved twilight princess, i didn't. it just goes to show the earlier point some one mentioned that you can't please everyone. But at least nintendo tries, and i'm more than positive that's exactly what nintendo is trying to do for the next game. Well...I'm done being wishy washy...Basically, yes i do like zelda, yes it has a special place in my heart, yes i was just being a whiner, most of all nintendo keep doing what ever it is that you do in zelda games that makes them such endearing games.

Alrighty then, I'm sort of out of material to talk about so...yeah...

Until E3!

-Eriad-

I could not have put it any better myself sir. it reminds of an old saying:

"You can please some of the people some of the time,

all of the people some of the time,

but NEVER all of the people all of the the time.

for the record i loved majora's mask. Just the 3 day thing bugged me. Also imo the MM OST > the rest x]

Edited April 18, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Narga_Rocks]

I could not have put it any better myself sir. it reminds of an old saying:

"You can please some of the people some of the time,

all of the people some of the time,

but NEVER all of the people all of the the time.

for the record i loved majora's mask. Just the 3 day thing bugged me. Also imo the MM OST > better the rest x]

But the way they advertised on tv sounded cool:

"72 hours. One hope."

Awesome.

Almost made me buy an N64.

@Eriad

I loved Link's Awakening and Twilight Princess.

Of course, Link to the Past > all the rest.

[XxWolfxX]

But the way they advertised on tv sounded cool:

"72 hours. One hope."

Awesome.

Almost made me buy an N64.

@Eriad

I loved Link's Awakening and Twilight Princess.

Of course, Link to the Past > all the rest.

Yeah, I must say A link to the past is what pulled me into the series for me aswell. I basically enjoyed all the games besides windwaker. I mean links adventure was so hard it was assanine.

Edited April 18, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Squidorsky]

I loved Link's Awakening and Twilight Princess.

Of course, Link to the Past > all the rest.

...You might want to kill me for saying this but i hated link to the past and i probably won't ever play it again...

..OOT is my one true zelda love!!

I mean links adventure was so hard it was assanine.

Adventure of link right? Yes it was ridiculous... if not for save states and codes to save my butt i would've never beat that game...

for the record i loved majora's mask. Just the 3 day thing bugged me. Also imo the MM OST > the rest x]

....Oops...I misunderstood your earlier comment then, sorry! Alright then some people ( Like XxWolfxX) Didn't like the three days thing but liked the music..... ;)

Yay! A somewhat short post from eriad for once!

-Eriad-

[XxWolfxX]

Heh, ya I did really like Ocarina of Time, Impa's breasts kind of scared me though, (that and the half naked great fairy gave me nightmares lol) otherwise that game had a lot of merits despite how cliche the story was.

And ya the adventures of Link*

which is the most notable reason why i would assume every zelda afterwords was easy, they probably had to many complainy hate mail cuz of Zelda II lulz.

[Narga_Rocks]

Heh, ya I did really like Ocarina of Time, Impa's breasts kind of scared me though, (that and the half naked great fairy gave me nightmares lol) otherwise that game had a lot of merits despite how cliche the story was.

And ya the adventures of Link*

which is the most notable reason why i would assume every zelda afterwords was easy, they probably had to many complainy hate mail cuz of Zelda II lulz.

I definitely found "Zelda II" the hardest of the ones I played. The first is likely the second hardest. LttP wasn't hard but it also wasn't eyes closed easy. The high damage of enemies probably helped with making it not too easy. Twilight Princess I only ever had a little trouble figuring out what all I was supposed to do in order to beat some bosses. Actually performing the actions wasn't at all difficult. I still found it fun, though, but I guess I love transformation type stuff anyway.