What you have to say about this game

[Anouleth]

There are many things that make FEDS incredibly unbalanced. There's:

-Reclassing to General makes you fairly indestructible.

-Warp staves.

-Shiida/Caeda can OHKO most bosses past chapter 4 and every mounted unit (like, half the game).

-Final boss can be killed with characters at base stats.

Oh, but this game is also pretty good for balance. Better than FE6, or FE8 or FEDS. Probably not as balanced as FE9 or FE7.

And finally, this game has by a massive margin the best death quotes of any Fire Emblem ever. However, I am a little annoyed that the game makes it impossible for certain characters to die, they just retreat, which seems like a copout.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Anouleth

[Ike-Mike]

For your record, whenever I get a new game in a series I usually get the feeling that this time they've finally managed to make it balanced. For most of them that feeling usually goes away a few days after playing and hearing about the balance issues elsewhere, but in FEDS's case I feel the game is still as balanced as ever. Oh, and TvC too.

I do agree the characterisation and writing is weak in this entry, but it is first and foremost a sequel to Path of Radiance. All of the characters from that game received enough expansion and such that there is little to no need for anything further to be done in this game.

But shouldn't a good sequel be able to convey most of the events and characterization to those who weren't able to play the previous game? That's actually another complaint I have about RD. I felt that I'd be completely lost with it if I haven't played the game beforehand. Every introduction of the PoR characters was pretty much "Hey there, how are you doing? Long time no see".

Edited May 3, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[Interceptor]

I disagree somewhat on FE9 vs. FE10 gameplay balance. The fatal flaw of PoR is that 9MV Canto units are powerful to the point of being dominating, and the easy access to BEXP removes the only barrier to their prowess. I think that the relative balance between classes is tighter in FE10. Mounts are not ridiculous (and may have been over-nerfed), Swordmasters have a reason to exist since doubling is actually hard to do, etc. They screwed the pooch when it came to Dracoknights, but you don't have to be perfect to be better than FE9, I think.

I would agree that FE7 is better balanced that this game, though. The lack of BEXP goes a long way, there.

[ReformBlade]

For your record, whenever I get a new game in a series I usually get the feeling that this time they've finally managed to make it balanced. That feeling usually goes away a few days after playing and hearing about the balance issues elsewhere, but in FEDS's case I feel the game is still as balanced as ever. Oh, and TvC too.

You're free to think that, but I don't see how it is balanced. Nothing personal.

However, I totally agree that TvC is a super balanced game compared to other Capcom entries...

[Anouleth]

I disagree somewhat on FE9 vs. FE10 gameplay balance. The fatal flaw of PoR is that 9MV Canto units are powerful to the point of being dominating, and the easy access to BEXP removes the only barrier to their prowess. I think that the relative balance between classes is tighter in FE10. Mounts are not ridiculous (and may have been over-nerfed), Swordmasters have a reason to exist since doubling is actually hard to do, etc. They screwed the pooch when it came to Dracoknights, but you don't have to be perfect to be better than FE9, I think.

I would agree that FE7 is better balanced that this game, though. The lack of BEXP goes a long way, there.

Perhaps. Maybe I'm underrating the gap between 7 move and 9 move units in FE9... but if you compare the gap between say, Oscar and Rolf, what is it? 2 move, needs less bexp, some better durability and enemy phase. Compare that to say, the gap between Volug and Fiona in FE10. Obviously FE10 has a larger cast and will inevitably run into more balance issues, but still, the gap between the best characters in FE10 and the worst characters in FE10 is insane.

Although it should be pointed out that class-by-class, Fire Emblem has never been really balanced, except maybe for FE8. But even there, the gap between best class (Bishop, Paladin or fliers) and worst class (Sniper, Assassin) is very noticeable.

FE7 is pretty balanced too until you consider some of the choices the game offers you. Hmm, who would I rather have, Wallace and Karel or Geitz and Harken?

[ReformBlade]

Harken every day for me, but I'm torn between Wallace and Geitz every time. *oblivious to the actual discussion at hand*

[Interceptor]

Perhaps. Maybe I'm underrating the gap between 7 move and 9 move units in FE9... but if you compare the gap between say, Oscar and Rolf, what is it? 2 move, needs less bexp, some better durability and enemy phase. Compare that to say, the gap between Volug and Fiona in FE10. Obviously FE10 has a larger cast and will inevitably run into more balance issues, but still, the gap between the best characters in FE10 and the worst characters in FE10 is insane.

Those things that you listed (plus Canto, which you forgot) are the difference between stomping your way from Point A to Point B killing everything that looks at you while never dying yourself, and getting swarmed and obliterated as you kill one guy a round at 2-range (and you suck at even doing that). And that doesn't even get into the Jills and Marcias that have terrain-ignoring flying on top of that bullshit.

Fiona is really bad, but if you remove the Unholy Trinity outliers, the difference between the rest of the units isn't as big. FE10 has a lot of units that are decent-to-good, at various points in the game.

[Anacybele]

I think the writing is relatively weak and watered down from the magnificence that was Path of Radiance, and the same could be said for the characterisation (barring some, like Dheginsea). The story is also constructed a bit sloppily, with some poor decisions (like Black Knight's true identity, etc.), but I found it all to be entertaining, overall. Other than that, I love everything about it. The mechanics, maps, units and especially the music. <3

This is something I see, and I see it a lot. Let me tell you that Ike has a personality and a very well defined one, it's just much more subtle than a lot of other characters, Fire Emblem or otherwise. Seriously, do characters need to scream and shout and/or explain every single thing about themselves, their morals, their goals or whatever the hell to have "personality?" No, they don't. Ike has personality, and it's made subtle, perhaps purposefully so, to also reflect, guess what, his actual personality! Even characters who have absolutely no spoken lines have personality, and how do you think this personality is evaluated? Through their actions, and as they say, actions speak louder than words. Combine all of Ike's spoken lines and his actions and you get a character just brimming with personality.

Even Gareth has personality. It's really only a tiny bit and insignificant, but enough to build upon it and have a clear understanding of what kind of a person he is.

Seriously, it's not hard to look a bit deeper into things. Writers and game developers aren't supposed to tell you every insignificant detail about a character to give a vague understanding of what their "personality" is. They use what they feel is necessary to convey that character's personality through various messages (in Ike's case, they focus on his selflessness and apparent apathy to petty and pointless [at least from his perspective] matters by showing him in various situations that would make these traits of his shine, like how he rescued Leanne, doesn't care for racism, and all such), and the rest is left up to the reader to interpret. And before anyone says that RD Ike doesn't have any personality, does he really need to? I do agree the characterisation and writing is weak in this entry, but it is first and foremost a sequel to Path of Radiance. All of the characters from that game received enough expansion and such that there is little to no need for anything further to be done in this game.

I completely agree that Ike has plenty of personality. It's one of the main things I love about him. <3

He did seem a little different in RD than in PoR though, mostly down to the dialogue. Ike seemed to be a little less serious than he was in PoR if you ask me. For example, in PoR, when Ike was joking around with Ranulf the one scene, he said "I don't think you have the right to talk to me that way. Kidding." I can't see RD Ike saying that. I would have imagined him saying something along the lines of "Ranulf, you can't talk to me that way. Just kidding." instead and with a bit more cheerfulness. I'd say RD Ike learned to lighten up a little with his tone of voice, in simpler terms. He's still the blunt and food-loving Ike we know, he's just less serious. :P

Which reminds me, Ike's love of food and eating is brought out more in RD as well. We see Titania, Lethe, and Oscar talking about how Ike eats as much as the laguz (which is apparently quite a bit) and how his favorites are steak and ribs. Lethe also compares him to Skrimir, who she implies eats more than all the laguz. I love this about Ike too. Tellius's savior is a glutton! XD

As for what I have to say about RD, it's my favorite game and is nearly perfect in almost every way. My biggest problem is the bullcrap decision of pairing Elincia with Geoffrey instead of her Ike, as people may have guessed. Knight and princess is nice and all in general, but we've seen that enough and it can get boring quickly. Seth and Eirika were paired in FE8 for example. Now hero and princess may be cliche, but it's a wonderful classic that shall never die and has been adored for generations. And quite frankly, I've heard in more than one place that IkexElincia is the most popular FE pairing, at least in FE9 and 10. How convenient. :3

And even down to the hero and princess thing, there are still things about Ike and Elincia that make them a little different and less cliche than the actual cliche itself. Elincia wasn't really a damsel in distress, although Ike did technically rescue her from the side of the road. She wasn't captured or imprisoned by the bad guy or anything like that. Ike didn't save Crimea just because he wanted to, he was getting paid for it and the princess was also his employer. So really, we'd be having an employerxemployee thing going on for a little while as well. Also, usually the hero is depicted as some sort of knight or noble (going back to Geoffrey, who would definitely always go to Elincia's rescue), but Ike is just a common mercenary who became a noble and then renounced that title. And lastly, Ike and Elincia wouldn't have been paired until the end of RD, long after the Mad King's War and usually the hero and princess get together right after their first story ends.

And that's all here. xP

[Nightmare]

But shouldn't a good sequel be able to convey most of the events and characterization to those who weren't able to play the previous game? That's actually another complaint I have about RD. I felt that I'd be completely lost with it if I haven't played the game beforehand. Every introduction of the PoR characters was pretty much "Hey there, how are you doing? Long time no see".

Yeah, like I said, it is pretty weak, so I guess they didn't think about it that far and mostly designed the game for those who had played PoR before. A shame, really.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Nightmare

[Narga_Rocks]

The only Mastery I would say isn't necessarily beneficial is Bane. It's absolutely retarded. Otherwise, who is going to argue with (generally) 20+% chance to do 3-5 times damage in one hit?

Um, how about the units that kill stuff on their own anyway? It happens for many units on a fair amount of enemies. Ike/Mia can do this to all but Generals in 4-1 and 4-4, pretty much. I'd probably rather give Mia 55 capacity worth of skills that aren't Astra than give her Astra. Like, maybe Resolve + Adept + Pass + Provoke + her free Vantage. Then strap on Astra for 4-1. Or some other combination. There are some fun skills out there like Celerity and Pass that aren't as valued because the Masteries take up space and you might want things like Resolve or Adept in your remaining 25 capacity and thus can't use some of the more unique skills.

Then there is shinon who will almost never actually need Deadeye anyway so why not get an extra 25 capacity? I mean, the guy even ORKOs Generals in 4-E-1 thanks to the Double Bow.

[Sykil]

Meh. I'd rather not cluster some of my best skills on one unit. I'm not saying it's not fun to go all out, but Mia hardly needs all of that to be effective.

[Ike-Mike]

You're free to think that, but I don't see how it is balanced. Nothing personal.

The units doing the 'jobs' as they should, such as the two Cavs being better than average, Jeigan being a crutch character and pre-promotes being worse than most unpromoteds, but still of much help when most of your other units died (as I said before, by giving everyone the same end potential in RD and thus taking away their 'jobs' makes it actually one of the most imbalanced games), capping 30 Spd and having a super-forge not being an auto-win for the entire game, especially in H5, most reclass choices except the really obvious ones (Myrmidon Wrys) being viable unlike FE8's branched promotions where one option was always clearly the better, battle calculations that are more sensible for a 20-30 cap system (well, except the dodge formula), mages actually posing a threat thanks to the low Res, a balanced weapon triangle (especially due to the rank bonuses) ...

In terms of mechanics, sure, I guess it's more "balanced" in that it's much more restrictive, but that makes it much less interesting and limits your actual tactical options. All the skills, supports, etc. don't necessarily make Radiant Dawn an easy game to complete, and they add much more depth to the gameplay.

FEDS clearly belongs to the bottom right, while RD belongs to the upper right.

There are many things that make FEDS incredibly unbalanced. There's:

-Reclassing to General makes you fairly indestructible.

-Warp staves.

-Shiida/Caeda can OHKO most bosses past chapter 4 and every mounted unit (like, half the game).

-Final boss can be killed with characters at base stats.

-At the expense of shallow Spd and often Str too.

-Better than how FE5 basically forced you to use Warp staves.

-The only really gamebreaking units are Wolf, Sedgar and Shiida, with Barst, Merric and the two Cavs being borderline examples. Even then, 2-5 gamebreakers is much better than more than a dozen in RD or half the cast in FE8.

-That's not the same final boss that I fought against then.

[Sykil]

FEDS clearly belongs to the bottom right, while RD belongs to the upper right.

That's like arguing that Checkers is a better game than Chess or Go based on things that are valued by different people. What people appreciate in a game could easily make the top right their ideal situation. I'm not as big of a fan of FEDS because it is an easier and less deep game, but I like it just fine.

-At the expense of shallow Spd and often Str too.

-Better than how FE5 basically forced you to use Warp staves.

-The only really gamebreaking units are Wolf, Sedgar and Shiida, with Barst, Merric and the two Cavs being borderline examples. Even then, 2-5 gamebreakers is much better than more than a dozen in RD or half the cast in FE8.

-That's not the same final boss that I fought against then.

- That doesn't matter much when you're taking little to no damage.

- This is irrelevant and doesn't mean that FE11 is balanced.

- It's more than the units themselves; it's Caeda's Wing Spear, the lack of resistance, etc. In terms of units, yeah, both are guilty, FE10 mayhaps more so because of royals. But it's not like you can forge SS weapons or something.

- What the guy below me said.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Sykil

[Scarlet]

-That's not the same final boss that I fought against then.

I think he's talking about Tiki and Nagi. They do not need to have gained any level ups at all to be able to kill Medeus in combination.

However, I cannot call a game in which after the first four or so chapters sword users always have WTdA balanced.

Also, archers in FE11 suck even more than usual. Why do they have less MOV than mages?

[nflchamp]

Honestly, I don't even understand the diagram. At least in this context.

[Ike-Mike]

The diagram shows that most people prefer games that are easy to learn, but hard to master. FEDS is just that.

[nflchamp]

The diagram shows that most people prefer games that are easy to learn, but hard to master. FEDS is just that.

That diagram doesn't say that at all. It could say that the easier it is to do lots of damage (in fighting games) with a character the better. You're just trying to use it to give your opinion, which is why I probably couldn't understand what you were saying with it.

[Anouleth]

The diagram shows that most people prefer games that are easy to learn, but hard to master. FEDS is just that.

Wow, FEDS is hard to master?

Turn one

-Warp Shiida next to boss, kill boss

-Warp Marth, seize

Excuse me if I'm not overwhelmed by the complexity of this game.

[Narga_Rocks]

Meh. I'd rather not cluster some of my best skills on one unit. I'm not saying it's not fun to go all out, but Mia hardly needs all of that to be effective.

It didn't have to be Mia. Mia was an example of a unit that doesn't need her Mastery. I also mentioned Ike and shinon. Imagine Ike running around with Resolve + Celerity + Pass. Pretty cool. Now let's go a step further and give him a +mt support and saviour (maxing out cap at 55 + 5(shove)). This guy can run wherever he wants with 9 move and 57 mt with Ragnell (1-2 range) and kill basically everything that comes after him (except 32 def Generals that have 51 or more hp). What's not to love? And how is this not better than FE10 Aether?

With saviour (and thus +23 avo from Earth support with anything) you probably don't even need to give him Resolve. You could maybe give him Imbue or something. Or even nothing. Celerity + Pass + saviour is still something he can't do normally.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Ike-Mike]

That diagram doesn't say that at all. It could say that the easier it is to do lots of damage (in fighting games) with a character the better. You're just trying to use it to give your opinion, which is why I probably couldn't understand what you were saying with it.

What is so difficult to understand that the square that covers "Very Easy" and "Advanced, Deep" has "GOOD" written in large letters and has a green background behind it?

Wow, FEDS is hard to master?

Turn one

-Warp Shiida next to boss, kill boss

-Warp Marth, seize

Excuse me if I'm not overwhelmed by the complexity of this game.

Because planning and actually pulling off a warp-skip run isn't ambitious at all.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[Interceptor]

It's not hard/ambitious to warpskip. Sure, if you're doing it dondon style and rock-bottom minimizing turncounts, it can be tricky, but Snotnose McNoobpants can warpskip pretty quickly even if they didn't know about Hammerne.

[nflchamp]

What is so difficult to understand that the square that covers "Very Easy" and "Advanced, Deep" has "GOOD" written in large letters and has a green background behind it?

The problem comes when you put "Advanced, Deep" next to "Power" when discussing something that doesn't have "Power", which leads to trying to interpret two things that don't go together as if they do. The "GOOD" part is exactly why I said you're trying to use it to give your opinion.

[ReformBlade]

The units doing the 'jobs' as they should, such as the two Cavs being better than average, Jeigan being a crutch character and pre-promotes being worse than most unpromoteds, but still of much help when most of your other units died (as I said before, by giving everyone the same end potential in RD and thus taking away their 'jobs' makes it actually one of the most imbalanced games), capping 30 Spd and having a super-forge not being an auto-win for the entire game, especially in H5, most reclass choices except the really obvious ones (Myrmidon Wrys) being viable unlike FE8's branched promotions where one option was always clearly the better, battle calculations that are more sensible for a 20-30 cap system (well, except the dodge formula), mages actually posing a threat thanks to the low Res, a balanced weapon triangle (especially due to the rank bonuses) ...

So it's slightly more balanced in your opinion... That still leaves the game unbalanced. 5 Gamebreakers is still breaking the game, and to be honest, I only found myself using 5 to 6 units per map, everyone else was superfluous. Also, since every class is vaible, does that not tell you about the actual difficulty of the game? If no matter what you do you're good (Unless purposely trying to fail)? And I'm actually suprised to hear that since every unit (In FE9/10) is actually usable by the end that means the game is imbalanced, and therefore taking away any 'uniqueness' the unit has.

I am actually shocked by this.

Apparently being the sole claimer of superiority is the only way to balance...

[Ingen]

If no matter what you do you're good (Unless purposely trying to fail)? And I'm actually suprised to hear that since every unit (In FE9/10) is actually usable by the end that means the game is imbalanced' date=' and therefore taking away any 'uniqueness' the unit has.

I am actually shocked by this.

Apparently being the sole claimer of superiority is the only way to balance... [/quote']

Maybe I should ask this question: "What makes balance?"

My answer: All characters, prepromoted or not, would end up usable by the end in their own unique way. I define "uniqueness" as different characters of the same classes having their own set of strengths and weaknesses and having different strategic options (an example would be doubling vs higher Attack and endurance).

After all... Whatever character imbalances there may be, it's still up to you if you'll use the broken characters or not.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ingen

[NinjaMonkey]

There's only one thing I'd like to say about this game: I hope that this is the last time IS decide to make the Lord of a FE game a magic user.

Every character being usable by Endgame... Wait, are there really characters in others FEs that are not even usable? Am I just going way off track here?

Assuming we are playing on Hard Mode: What about Meg, Fiona, Lyre, Astrid, Muarim, Tormod and Vika?

Edited May 4, 2010 by NinjaMonkey