So, who's disappointed in IS for splitting FE3 into 2 games?

[grandjackal]

I'm not surprised at it, I'm dismissive of it. People complaining about balance are largely howling at the moon.

Oh. Well, k then.

This might blow your mind, but even though folks like you and I play these games a lot, we are not actually the target market. Think about it from this perspective: a lot of people are morons, and need Seth to get through the game. Their $40-50 is worth the same as ours, and we're grossly outnumbered.

True, though I like FEDS due to the fact they don't throw a super unit your way (unless you count Shiida when she has a forged Wing Spear with Warpskipping, but even then you need to forge something and then have a warper, it's not just one guy. That's at least team work). I'm not sure how well the sales of that did, though I recall it selling better than the past few FEs...Though that's probably because it finally had Marth in it.

As long as you understand my point: sometimes having awesome guys is fun from a storyline perspective.

Indeed, though RD still puts me off in that it just throws a small army of people that can do that right then and there. Even FE7 it was only one guy they threw at you that was similar to that. Perhaps I'm just offput when they just show up at random able to make everyone else on the army look pathetic, but that's just a personal gripe.

[_____]

True, though I like FEDS due to the fact they don't throw a super unit your way (unless you count Shiida when she has a forged Wing Spear with Warpskipping, but even then you need to forge something and then have a warper, it's not just one guy. That's at least team work). I'm not sure how well the sales of that did, though I recall it selling better than the past few FEs...Though that's probably because it finally had Marth in it.

Well, to be fair, if we're talking about late-joining badasses, Ymir is the closest FE11 has to one, and he's really not bad at all.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Ok let me point this out to you all in a fashion you might understand. I don't think I've made my point in a way you can understand yet.

FEDS Tier List in comparison to other lists.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FEDS

God Tier = High

High Tier = Upper Middle

Upper Middle = Middle

Middle = Lower middle

Lower Middle = Low

Low = Bottom

Bottom = Joke

Joke = Est and Arran's failed marriage.

It's like having 20 lyre's of varying suckitude with no way to escape that suck. Don't tell me to NOT play the game efficiently. Make these units NOT UTTER CRAP.

This has nothing to do with efficiency or balance and everything to do with IS giving us 20 useless shitheads out of 57 units available. These guys only serve as filler/sacrifices. That's it. Hell their is a random chance that one of the replacement characters like Auffle might get lucky and score a few points so your better off fielding them over these douchebags. That's what we like to call Ausom.

I hope you understand what I mean this time.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Mr. Francis York Morgan

[Mekkah]

To all the FEDS sidequest haters out there, remember that they weren't meant to be like the gaidens from the previous games - they're more like the previous ones. Instead of:

- "You kept all the suicidal NPC soldiers in Ch17 (FE7) alive, good job! Here's the dock gaiden!"

- "You finished this map really fast even though there's a dodgy Nomad Trooper on a forest with 3 different lethal weapons (FE7), awesome! Here's the Silver Card!"

- "You freed all the prisoners in Ch4 (FE5), here's a sidequest to get you a broken Mage and a Sety scroll!"

it's more like

"Hot damn, you managed to get this many guys killed? You really need some help here. Alright, here's a Swordswoman with some nice bases and a whole bunch of EXP, garnered from weaker-than-usual enemies."

So instead of playing well enough to get to sidequests, instead it's more as if they want you to try your best not to be a special needs kid. Of course, people ended up sacrificing on purpose...

That said, I don't think it works out very well. Someone isn't going to recover from accidentally getting half their army killed with just another sidequest: what they need is someone who tells them what to do and what not to do, because that's what gets people killed. Or, more preferably, just go back to the old system.

[Rodykitty]

The Hero of Shadow alone is enough to show that they're not likely going to do the same thing for extra chapter content (unless they do it and Hero of Shadow chapters, which would actually be cool despite the hate for killing units for gaidens).

The only reason they went with killing off units for gaidens was because of the decisions not to change the chapters much from FE1. Turn count for gaidens would be better, but they were likely wanting a system where an inexperienced player could see the new chapters.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Ilyana

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

- "You freed all the prisoners in Ch4 (FE5), here's a sidequest to get you a broken Mage and a Sety scroll!"

You forgot the Brave Sword. That's also something pretty amazing.

[Jediabiwan]

Oh. Well, k then.

True, though I like FEDS due to the fact they don't throw a super unit your way (unless you count Shiida when she has a forged Wing Spear with Warpskipping, but even then you need to forge something and then have a warper, it's not just one guy. That's at least team work). I'm not sure how well the sales of that did, though I recall it selling better than the past few FEs...Though that's probably because it finally had Marth in it.

Indeed, though RD still puts me off in that it just throws a small army of people that can do that right then and there. Even FE7 it was only one guy they threw at you that was similar to that. Perhaps I'm just offput when they just show up at random able to make everyone else on the army look pathetic, but that's just a personal gripe.

I think that perhaps FE11 should have thrown super units at you instead of extra chapters. It would have been interesting if they just gave you new characters if lots of yours had died, or increased the power of the ones you got. They really should have made the pre-promotes better as I see their point to be helping out players who couldn't train their own characters. This doesn't help if almost the pre-promotes suck. I really liked chapter 24x, as it made sure you had at least some ways to damage the final boss, and made sure you got the falchion which is pretty hard to get if you don't know what you are doing.

I really like how FE7 handles pre-promotes. You get quite a few good ones, and few bad ones. They usually aren't better than units you train, but are comparable or a little worse. Then they give you Athos the final chapter, who can't handle the whole chapter by himself, but can solo the dragon, which, if you didn't train your lords, helps a lot. I remember the first time, my final team included Pent, Hawkeye, Harken, Jaffar, Vaida, Renault, a unpromoted lyn, a level 11/1 hector, a 13/3 Eliwood, and the only unit i actually trained from the beginning, a level 20/20 oswin. Athos did most of the work and was the only way to easily beat the dragon, as most of my units could not land over 10dmg on it.

[_____]

But you get extra characters from every single gaiden. I don't see where you're going with this.

[Jediabiwan]

But you get extra characters from every single gaiden. I don't see where you're going with this.

I just hate missing out on extra chapters, and missing out on a few characters isn't as bad to me. I don't know if anyone else feels that way too or if it is just me.

[FionordeQuester]

About sacrificing my units, I was initially opposed to it, but after actually doing it, I'd say it was one of the best things to ever happen to me in terms of saving myself frustration. Before, I was one of those players who would never let one of their units die, no matter how worthless they were, and I would go out of my way to recruit all of them. Now, ever since Shadow Dragon, I no longer care, and I cannot believe how much more fun the Fire Emblem games are! It was awesome!

[dondon151]

I think that perhaps FE11 should have thrown super units at you instead of extra chapters.

Gaiden characters do tend to have higher base stats than non-Gaiden characters. They're not fantastic units, but it's really easy to make them work because they're not utter trash either.

[Rodykitty]

They really should have made the pre-promotes better as I see their point to be helping out players who couldn't train their own characters.

People really underestimate pre-promotes in FEDS. On NM or an early hard mode, where a new player is most likely going to have trouble, pre-promotes are actually going to be helpful due to more lenient requirements to double, etc. Minerva, especially.

If you get so far in H5 that you start getting mid-late game pre-promotes, then you aren't one of the players that needs help, period.

I think that perhaps FE11 should have thrown super units at you instead of extra chapters.

Generics are already super units in a way. Some of them have good bases. Edited May 29, 2010 by Ilyana

[seris]

Because some of us have an innate sense of completion that is not fulfilled unless we make it through the entire game without anyone dying. It's been ingrained in us for ages by now, and IS simply up and going "lol j/k guys, you gotta kill your units now", is annoying. Not to mention needless. Why give characters we don't need, if you're just going to take them away again as a toll for accessing an extra level?

LOL. jyosua just get over it

[Emblem Lugh]

LOL. jyosua just get over it

Why do that when we can make the thread about being butthurt that we can't get to gaiden chapters because we have emotional attachments with bits of code? The gaidens are just to help sucky players if they get into a pickle anyways. >_>

[BrightBow]

That might be right but they are also the only actual new maps. Everyone who played the original game would probably like to take a shot on those maps, but those requirements really make it difficult.

[Parrhesia]

I do feel they made the requirements too strict. I mean, 15 characters by late midgame is far beyond your 'noble/hilarious sacrifice' quota...by then, and probably before, you're probably consciously culling units to fulfil the magic number. So while I like the idea of the requirements, make them less strict.

[Thief]

15 units is the maximum number that you'd ever be allowed to take into battles, so fixing it at that number ensures that only the ones that you'd use until the end would actually get the limited EXP? Arena/boss/etc abuse aside, naturally.

That aside, I find it hilarious that many see Shadow Dragon as a remake of Monshou's Book 1 instead of the original first Fire Emblem. It really is the latter, period.

[dondon151]

The FEDS gaiden system would have been more tolerable if the player had been able to just have units leave the army instead of forcibly killing them off.

[Interceptor]

Your reasonable compromise is denied, for reasons of knocking the high horse out from underneath the people who are as cold-blooded as Marth.

[Thief]

And yet that defeats the purpose of them going out of their way to create hidden supplementary team members to make up for the gap that you might have because you killed one too many team members?

[shadowjam]

I'm disappointed at the split because in FE3, as I found that you can promote original FE3 units to third-tier, just like FE10, which was released about 13 years after the FE3's original Super Famicom release, and I think the third-tier system was in place because you would already have strong characters going into Book 2, making it only right to allow them to promote again in order to give the player more purposes to train those respective units further...

^If the split stays, if they include third-tier classes in this game, how can you get a unit to third-tier if they start Book 2 at a lower level and class than they most likely would have if they came from Book 1, especially since Book 2 is 25 chapters long, including Endgame, which I believe is not enough time to train your units to the third-tier level assuming no help from arenas or bosses?

The answer to the above question might be known and not a mystery if they adopt some system involving the transfer of stats of player characters(excluding Hardin, Wolf and Sedgar, of course), but the catch is that will most likely involve 1 DS with a FEDS2 game card inserted and 1 DS using DS Download Play with a FEDS1(Shadow Dragon) game card with epilogue data inserted(as according to the initial source code(or the program sequence created by the game's programmers before the game's release)that the game card uses to run the game, FEDS1 doesn't show, at least on its end of the connection, the ability to transfer to a new save file in a game made later than at the time it was made), if only to bypass the game coding to do something more involving later technology that cannot be done with the game card as-is, in the same way as the GBA games if you hold Start + Select at startup at events, but if that's not possible, and if you can't transfer units from FEDS1 to FEDS2, yet they do include third-tier abilities, then I'll think that:

...there will be vital unused data in FEDS2(New Mystery) that's shown to the player in the original FE3 that's Japan-only that apparently you can only get by hacking in FEDS2 because if they include that ability to promote a second time, yet not include the ability to transfer FEDS1 player units over to enhance their stats but not necessarily levels, it would be almost impossible to get a unit to promote into that tier other than via arena abuse/extensive boss abuse, and that will make the highest difficulty impossible to beat(if it's almost impossible on FEDS1 already with a smarter AI, more enemy strength, etc.), with the following:

1. enemies perhaps high third-tier, and:

2. your units still early-to-mid second-tier by Endgame without boss abuse(because in case you didn't know that trying arena abusing on the hardest difficulty in FEDS1 will only serve to kill every unit you put into the arena on the first or second round(and that will most likely still be the case in FEDS2 on its H5 equivalent), meaning no mention of arena abuse here, because it's impossible on the highest difficulty to do so without wasting your gold, provided your unit is lucky enough to survive one round of arena combat, of course), and that would make this game even worse than FEDS1, which already has bad public reception, because it would be even harder than FEDS1 even with a guide.

^ And that would spell "one of the worst flops in gaming history" due to it being harder than say, the final levels of Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi SNES version in terms of difficulty. And you know, you can't make a game harder than the final levels of those two games(because the difficulty of those levels are so close to "impossible to clear" that I bet only those gaming masters can pull off finishing the level without losing all their lives to game over themselves) without making the level(or, in this case, the Chapter) and the game impossible to beat. Not a good way to make a game...

^At least make the game possible to beat, but difficult enough so that players can beat it with satisfaction, rather than so difficult that players get the urge to throw their TV out the window in frustration, IS! :(

edit: note: I misinterpreted and misread what was written on the description on the Radiant Dawn description page, then I posted untrue and confusing details according to what I thought I saw, and as a result, you saw my post containing untrue details... My apologies. Next time, I'll reread and check my sources again before I post the details...

Edited June 12, 2010 by shadowjam

[Rakath]

There was no third Tier promotion in FE3. FE3:Book 1 levels and promotions were RESET when you began Book 2. As Book 1 was a bonus to remind you of the story in the game. Book 2 was the main story of "Mystery of the Emblem."

Anyone that thinks FE11 and FE12 were one game split in half didn't really pay attention to the series history.

[MizuJosh]

There was no third Tier promotion in FE3. FE3:Book 1 levels and promotions were RESET when you began Book 2. As Book 1 was a bonus to remind you of the story in the game. Book 2 was the main story of "Mystery of the Emblem."

Anyone that thinks FE11 and FE12 were one game split in half didn't really pay attention to the series history.

Because FE3's Book 1 was just a bonus, correct?

Book 2 was the intention of FE3. So I'm not dissapointed.

[shadowjam]

There was no third Tier promotion in FE3. FE3:Book 1 levels and promotions were RESET when you began Book 2. As Book 1 was a bonus to remind you of the story in the game. Book 2 was the main story of "Mystery of the Emblem."

Anyone that thinks FE11 and FE12 were one game split in half didn't really pay attention to the series history.

oopsie! Got my games confused.

I thought that branched promotions were first seen in Gaiden, and third tier promotions in Mystery...

Boy, now that I found out that both concepts were purely from Gaiden first, I'll have to take that thought back, knowing it's not really correct. My apologies...

Edited June 12, 2010 by shadowjam

[Thief]

What is this third tier promotion in the original Monshou Book 2 than I'm reading? Never heard of it.

Yet it was funny how characters got reset in the course of a few years difference between the two books' stories.