So, what's all this bullshit about Hikarusa not being able to post?

[Mikethfc]

I especially like mikethfc's example, because, I read that thread... and he's so right... .

Thanks I'm this much closer to becoming corrupt with pseudopower :D

@Everyone:

Just admit it. You're glad Hika was banned because it gave us something to talk about. A sacrifice for the sake of the forum.

Haha that made me laugh :D

@Fayt the point we're arguing or at least that I am albeit inconsistently is that Hika was banned for chianging his name to something offensive yet offensiveis an entirely relative concept and that his optimistic nature misled him into believing it was fine.

If only OxR and his crack pairings were still around then he could include HikaxShuuda

[Altera the Hun]

Why is this topic still breathing?

[Mikethfc]

Why is this topic still breathing?

Because I'm meant to be revising for my ASs and I need all the distractions I can get.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

@Fayt the point we're arguing or at least that I am albeit inconsistently is that Hika was banned for chianging his name to something offensive yet offensiveis an entirely relative concept and that his optimistic nature misled him into believing it was fine.

Hika never struck me as optimistic as he claims to be, I've asked a couple others (who know him) and they didn't believe he's like this either. Bringing that up after his ban is no different than just bullshitting excuses.

[Marthur]

... I've answered the question several times throughout this thread and that statement does not show that you actually read the reasoning before commenting (or you did but chose to ignore it). It's not because of the number of warns, it's because he keeps getting warned for the same shit he's been told multiple times not to do and never showed any intention of listening. We simply followed our guidelines, suspend or ban users who have repeatedly disregarded the staff and in the case of banning, discuss with the rest of the staff before doing anything which we did.

I'm just going to say that reading through Hika's posts, some of his warns did seem unfair. God/That's gay shut up (which might not even refers to one's sexuality)/Destiny Faggot were obvious jokes and couldn't have possibly hurt anyone.

And talking about consistency, I suppose you guys haven't warned Numbers, which username both have a satanist and sexual connotation (PG-13). I wonder which would be the more harmful between Hikarusa or her username? This comment is actually semi-serious.

Anyway, I'm not going to contest the staff's decision though. What's done is done I guess.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Marthur

[Original Alear]

Why is this topic still breathing?

Because everyone (including me) needs to drink from the blood of Hika's sacrifice in the best way possible for us to do so. In my case at least that meant posting responses to what other people said.

[Life]

And talking about consistency, I suppose you guys haven't warned Numbers, which username both have a satanist and sexual connotation (PG-13). I wonder which would be the more harmful between Hikarusa or her username? This comment is actually semi-serious.

Dude, I'd be the next one to go. I DON'T WANNA GET BANNED FOR HAVING AN AWESOME COOL NAME LIKE HIKARUSA DID!

[Original Alear]

Dude, I'd be the next one to go. I DON'T WANNA GET BANNED FOR HAVING AN AWESOME COOL NAME LIKE HIKARUSA DID!

Don't worry. Your name is pretty boring, at least right now.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I'm just going to say that reading through Hika's posts, some of his warns did seem unfair. God/That's gay shut up (which might not even refers to one's sexuality)/Destiny Faggot were obvious jokes and couldn't have possibly hurt anyone.

Perhaps. I wasn't a mod during the time those name changes existed so I don't know the reasoning behind those warns. Seems the previous staff members handled things different, as Narga already said, we frequently discuss matters that are too subjective. I do admit that a few of his warns do seem unfair as you say, still, he's only shown disregard for the staff and kept doing what he was told not to without ever disputing appropriately as he should've.

[Mikethfc]

Hika never struck me as optimistic as he claims to be, I've asked a couple others (who know him) and they didn't believe he's like this either. Bringing that up after his ban is no different than just bullshitting excuses.

Its funny because before one of the moderators was saying that they were unable to read his thoughts/mind frame but now that it suits you, you claim him to know more about his persona than he claims to.

Edited June 3, 2010 by mikethfc

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Its funny because before one of the moderators was saying that they were unable to read his thoughts/mind frame but now that it suits you, you claim him to know more about his persona than he claims to.

I fail to see how Narga's opinion of a user he's hardly seen posting due to him not browsing FFTF can be the same as mine when FFTF is what I mostly browse and that's where Hika posts the most.

[Zkirsche]

... I've answered the question several times throughout this thread and that statement does not show that you actually read the reasoning before commenting (or you did but chose to ignore it). It's not because of the number of warns, it's because he keeps getting warned for the same shit he's been told multiple times not to do and never showed any intention of listening. We simply followed our guidelines, suspend or ban users who have repeatedly disregarded the staff and in the case of banning, discuss with the rest of the staff before doing anything which we did.

@Bolded: this too is part of his warn record. Which proves my initial point: you examined his warn record and made a judgement call upon it. What was that judgement call on? Whether to ban him because he's a threat to the "local peace" or if he's just a mild irritance.

@Italics: So would it have been better for him to spam instead of the occasional troll?

If a user is problematic, you can bring him/her to the attention of the staff and present your reasoning. We will listen to reasonable arguments and deal with it as we see appropriate. Thing is, nobody/hardly anyone ever does and some often decide to take matters into their hands by flaming or trolling, things they know they shouldn't be doing. Also, the tier list as proof in your argument? Really? Ever thought that the thing's not supposed to be taken seriously and doesn't account for input of many users?

Again, this is highlighting the fact that it is your opinion that he is problematic, not the general populaces.

Yes it probably isn't, but I'm sure they didn't just pick a lottery number for each player and placed them like that. ;).

Absolutely not. Doing so would make anyone who's popular immune while those that are generally disliked and aren't breaking any rules would inevitably end up banned due to several users ganging up on them and bait them into breaking the rules. In such an instance, public opinion would favor that this member is banned while those that baited the user would go without consequence since they may or may not get warned and if they do get warned it wouldn't mean a damn since the public would want them to stay every time a decision to ban them is considered. Basically making the forum one big popularity contest... terrible suggestion.

And this is where it falls upon you guys to determine what is general bias and what are reasonable arguments detailing to a person's behaviour. I do not see in any way, much like Hikarusa, how his name changes prove that he is a threat to the forum's "peace", they're not that insulting, they're harmless little jokes which some minority (Crash) takes offence to. Why should Hika be punished for people getting too easily butthurt?

You say the tier list should not be used for him for it is not meant to be taken seriosuly, but his name changes weren't meant to be taken seriously so surely they shouldn't be used against him.

Anyway, I'll probably drop the subject as Hika himself has probably given up and futher discussion will probably equal nought anyhow.

Also, speedwagon, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm disrespecting you, I do resepect you and the rest of the staff and you do stick to the guidelines quite well. My only problem lies in the decision you've made, which is more of an opinion than anything else.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm just going to say that reading through Hika's posts, some of his warns did seem unfair. God/That's gay shut up (which might not even refers to one's sexuality)/Destiny Faggot were obvious jokes and couldn't have possibly hurt anyone.

Um, "That's _____ shut up"

To me, that implies that whatever is in the blank is a bad thing. Does it not say the same thing to you?

I only know of two definitions of gay:

happy

homosexual

Do you know some I am not aware of? Therefore, I must conclude that he is either saying that being happy is bad or that being homosexual is bad. I find it logical to assume that being happy = bad is not what that statement implies. I suppose that could be incorrect. Now, this forum has decided that stating homosexual = bad is against the rules. Therefore, the name is against the rules.

Feel free to point out any flaws you see in this process.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

That warn was wrong Narga.

[Mikethfc]

I fail to see how Narga's opinion of a user he's hardly seen posting due to him not browsing FFTF can be the same as mine when FFTF is what I mostly browse and that's where Hika posts the most.

Well like Severlan said you're all the same soulless robot;)

Well as you say Narga hardly knows Hika, having Narga decide on how disruptive Hika was/would've been is on a parr with the Digital Economy Act or the Poor Law. In effect its just the blind leading the masses, which is what irks me the most about this as even within the admins it seems to be more the opinion of the dominant, this emphasised with the way it was said earlier "nobody had any objections" this makes it sound more like one person said: "so we ban him right guys," rather than each mod individually voted for and against. (Yes I do realise the last clause was completely down to my own interpretation and I may have completely got the end of the stick. Lol Deja Vu much?)

Also do I get marks for the consistency and relevance of my post :sarcasm:

Also at the last point when used in that context gay loses its meaning completely like wtih nearly all modern jargon eg. thats sick, and whilst I don't agree with gay being used in that context I find it incredibly hard to believe that it was meant as a homophobic attack.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well like Severlan said you're all the same soulless robot;)

Well as you say Narga hardly knows Hika, having Narga decide on how disruptive Hika was/would've been is on a parr with the Digital Economy Act or the Poor Law. In effect its just the blind leading the masses, which is what irks me the most about this as even within the admins it seems to be more the opinion of the dominant, this emphasised with the way it was said earlier "nobody had any objections" this makes it sound more like one person said: "so we ban him right guys," rather than each mod individually voted for and against. (Yes I do realise the last clause was completely down to my own interpretation and I may have completely got the end of the stick. Lol Deja Vu much?)

Also do I get marks for the consistency and relevance of my post :sarcasm:

It's not like I was the driving force, ya know.

Also at the last point when used in that context gay loses its meaning completely like wtih nearly all modern jargon eg. thats sick, and whilst I don't agree with gay being used in that context I find it incredibly hard to believe that it was meant as a homophobic attack.

Meant as a homophobic attack? Of course not. People say tons of dumb things without thinking through their implications and what others may read out of it. Potentially offensive to various people (enough to be a problem)? I think so. speedwagon disagrees, apparently, but that's fine.

[the_whistler]

This thread is somewhere between funny and absolutely ridiculous. Funny because you're arguing over something that's already done and nitpicking like mad, and ridiculous because...... heck, it's 13 pages!

Pseudo banning because someone tests the rules is hard to judge at best, and I'd bet this thread goes on for at least a couple more pages : D

Edit: Needless to say though, this is great entertainment.

Edited June 3, 2010 by the_whistler

[Mikethfc]

This thread is somewhere between funny and absolutely ridiculous. Funny because you're arguing over something that's already done and nitpicking like mad, and ridiculous because...... heck, it's 13 pages!

Pseudo banning because someone tests the rules is hard to judge at best, and I'd bet this thread goes on for at least a couple more pages : D

Edit: Needless to say though, this is great entertainment.

Ah but to quote Abraham Simpson:

Gotta do something until Matlock

[Dr. Tarrasque]

@Bolded: this too is part of his warn record. Which proves my initial point: you examined his warn record and made a judgement call upon it. What was that judgement call on? Whether to ban him because he's a threat to the "local peace" or if he's just a mild irritance.

A guideline. As already said

We simply followed our guidelines, suspend or ban users who have repeatedly disregarded the staff and in the case of banning, discuss with the rest of the staff before doing anything which we did.

Disregard:

to pay no attention to; leave out of consideration; ignore

I don't see how Hika didn't disregard the staff's warnings by gambling with such names when he's been warned for them several times and never bothered to ask whether or not they'd be ok nor question any of his warns.

You also seem to think that just because some of his warns have expired, we have to completely disregard his history here. This is not the case, otherwise any troll can last a long time here and we've been adjusting the rules to work on getting rid of them faster.

With warn expiration, your warn level decreases and you're less likely to reach 100% warn but if you're not showing us that you're listening, you're not giving us reason to believe that you don't intend to keep doing this shit every now and then and thus no reason to keep you around.

@Italics: So would it have been better for him to spam instead of the occasional troll?

Not 100% sure of what you're asking here.

Again, this is highlighting the fact that it is your opinion that he is problematic, not the general populaces.

Um, no actually, in this example, it isn't just our opinion since it was brought to our attention through another opinion. In such an instance, we would use the guidelines and the code of conduct and see and try to go about this with as little bias as possible. There's probably several users some of the staff doesn't like but we don't go around recommending bans because of that.

Yes it probably isn't, but I'm sure they didn't just pick a lottery number for each player and placed them like that.

No, the topic creator got a list of the users and positioned them on the tiers based on his opinion and even stated that most of the individual positions are inaccurate (I talk to the creator through MSN and he's said this).

I know for a fact that there are users who would argue Hika down but won't bother because it's pretty damn obvious that lots of people here like Hika so they would just face disagreement and it'd be another silly popularity contest.

And this is where it falls upon you guys to determine what is general bias and what are reasonable arguments detailing to a person's behaviour. I do not see in any way, much like Hikarusa, how his name changes prove that he is a threat to the forum's "peace", they're not that insulting, they're harmless little jokes which some minority (Crash) takes offence to. Why should Hika be punished for people getting too easily butthurt?

Jokes like that are better off among friends, we understand that some friends may call each other names and be okay with it. However, this is not the case when you name yourself "White people suck".

Suck in this context:

Slang. to be repellent or disgusting

His name is visible to everyone in the forum so he's not just joking around with friends and is insulting the people in his name whether he intended to or not. Earlier you reported Phoenix for a jab at Catholics which is probably seen as joke to others but you took offense to it.

Also, nobody's being punished for people being easily butthurt, otherwise we wouldn't have ignored some of the reports made by Crash and XxWolfxW. If we were, nearly 50% of the forum would already be banned.

You say the tier list should not be used for him for it is not meant to be taken seriosuly, but his name changes weren't meant to be taken seriously so surely they shouldn't be used against him.

One does not have to be serious to offend, this was made clear when his previous name changes were warned and he continued disobeying the staff.

Anyway, I'll probably drop the subject as Hika himself has probably given up and futher discussion will probably equal nought anyhow.

Also, speedwagon, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm disrespecting you, I do respect you and the rest of the staff and you do stick to the guidelines quite well. My only problem lies in the decision you've made, which is more of an opinion than anything else.

My opinion of Hika did not play a role in my agreement to his ban. If it did, I would've objected since I have found Hika amusing and wouldn't like to see his antics gone from FFTF. We try to avoid bias when making a decision. There's a bunch of users here I dislike, don't care for and would rather see gone but I've yet to recommend a single ban (unless questioning why a certain user isn't banned counts towards this).

Edited June 3, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Mikethfc]

@Italics: So would it have been better for him to spam instead of the occasional troll?

Not 100% sure of what you're asking here.

Forgive me if I got it wrong but it seems Kirsche is saying that some of the posts imply that if Hika started spamming then he would've been punished less severely rather than if he followed all the rules save one which he had minor scuffles with(that wasn't intended to be an example of Hika just to make the synopsis more simple.)

[Mousefire]

"HIKA GOT BANNED! No way. This is some BS."

*Sees Staff's argument*

"Oh, so it wasn't BS"

*Sees everybody's arguments*

"Wait, is it BS or not? Gah, I can't decide!"

I can't decide who to side with...

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm actually surprised there's been so much argumentation. Anywhere else and the topics would be closed and the users warned if they kept it up.

I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, since I usually inwardly bitch when mods do something that I don't like.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Well, had the recent warn happened because of a spam post, I would object to banning him if the suggestion came from that.

Anyway, this has been opened for too long and I don't think it needs to be opened for more questions to be answered. PM if you feel the need to ask.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Speedwagon