Resource Allocation Topic

[dondon151]

ok, do a playthrough an entire playthrough without using ike at all and sell your hammers immidiantly, also on 1-9 dont use the BK whatsoever and dont use miciah at all before then. can you do that?

Note that I did not say "any arbitrary restrictions." You're really missing the point here. The tier list doesn't care if these sorts of playthroughs are possible; it cares only about the efficient outcome.

[Narga_Rocks]

ok, do a playthrough an entire playthrough without using ike at all and sell your hammers immidiantly, also on 1-9 dont use the BK whatsoever and dont use miciah at all before then. can you do that?

He didn't say under any arbitrary conditions. He merely said "under arbitrary conditions". That doesn't mean you get to choose them. He can. Or I could make a suggestion and he could use it. It could be as simple as "Never use a bronze sword".

edit: doh. ninja'd

Edited June 3, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Fenrir]

ok, you didnt say any i get the point. i was just saying you dont have to use either of them, and ikes team is stronger so a stronger character is less needed.

[-Cynthia-]

Isn't he, though? For all of Zihark's vaunted statistical advantages over Nolan, when push comes to shove in Part 3, Zihark fails in the clutch.

You know you keep saying this, but I'm not really seeing how 3-6 and 3-13 (Zihark is fine for 3-12) is any more important than any other chapter.

Edited June 4, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Fenrir]

You know you keep saying this, but I'm not really seeing how 3-6 and 3-13 (Zihark is fine for 3-12) is any more important than any other chapter.

well for part 1 there are plenty of characters better than zihark, tauroneo, naihlah, BK, maurim, and tormod comes close. but in 3-6 and 3-13 there is just not that many other characters to use and nolan is helpful; however, zihark on the other hand isnt helpful.

Edited June 4, 2010 by King Soren

[dondon151]

You know you keep saying this, but I'm not really seeing how 3-6 and 3-13 (Zihark is fine for 3-12) is any more important than any other chapter.

Pretty much what the above poster said. Zihark joins in 1-6; he competes with Tauroneo and also does nothing important in 1-6-2; he has Tormod, Muarim, and Vika to compete with in 1-7, 1-8, 1-E, Nailah in 1-8 and 1-E, and BK in 1-E.

Also, Nolan's been solid since 1-1. So at least to me, Nolan above Zihark makes sense.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't mind Nolan above Zihark (since he has 1-1 to 1-5 to his name), it's mainly things like Volug auto-top due to 3-6 and 3-13 that bother me. Volug's not even that good in these chapters (he still has to deal with gauge, can't toss things down ledges for 3-13, etc.) If he were ORKOing lots of things and getting killed in an obscene amount of rounds in return like the BK that would be one thing, but his #RKO numbers are only marginally better than people like Nolan, who can attack without getting countered and still ORKO with Beastfoe and other stuff like that.

"There aren't that many characters to use" seems to contradict some people's opinion of how tier lists should be ordered. If Volug receives more credit for 3-6 and 3-13 because his competition doesn't do very well, Sothe should get even more for 1-2 to 1-5.

Edited June 4, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Narga_Rocks]

No on topic posts this page aside from GJ. That's not a good thing. But I did say that this is spun off from tier list, so maybe it's okay.

[Fenrir]

I don't mind Nolan above Zihark (since he has 1-1 to 1-5 to his name), it's mainly things like Volug auto-top due to 3-6 and 3-13 that bother me. Volug's not even that good in these chapters (he still has to deal with gauge, can't toss things down ledges for 3-13, etc.) If he were ORKOing lots of things and getting killed in an obscene amount of rounds in return like the BK that would be one thing, but his #RKO numbers are only marginally better than people like Nolan, who can attack without getting countered and still ORKO with Beastfoe and other stuff like that.

"There aren't that many characters to use" seems to contradict some people's opinion of how tier lists should be ordered. If Volug receives more credit for 3-6 and 3-13 because his competition doesn't do very well, Sothe should get even more for 1-2 to 1-5.

i completely agree about volug, in my opion i would put ike and reyson, possibly haar at top tier, volugs only real strength(where he rips everything) is 1-5 after that, similerly to zihark has people to compete with. Ike and reyson however make every single stage easy. and then on 3-6 and 3-13 you can give nolan a beastfoe and either a Xbow or tarvos and he will tear apart everything volug is a bad cantidate for beastfoe, which hurts his production. volug however does have 9 movement, but on 1-8 and 1-E you have nailah to match that, so IMO volug is only the best person on his for one stage, Ike is the best with or without transfer and requires no items like haar. reyson makes stages much much easier with 4 more units moving again, that is if you feed him a laguz stone.

No on topic posts this page aside from GJ. That's not a good thing. But I did say that this is spun off from tier list, so maybe it's okay.

i mentioned beastfoe...XP, and it is spun off tier, so im good...right?

[Anouleth]

No on topic posts this page aside from GJ. That's not a good thing. But I did say that this is spun off from tier list, so maybe it's okay.

We naturally diverged from the topic of 'how we can assign beastfoe' to 'how best to complete Part 3' and from there to 'wow Nolan/Jill are totally h4x, Zihark sucks'.

Perfectly natural.

[grandjackal]

Well then, allow me to keep on topic.

For Part 3, we start with the GM. But, to get things out of the way first, I'm going to do this first before we get to the resources we get from Part 3 itself, as to help save space. Shipped Resources are Skills, High Value Weapons and Stat Boosters that may be shipped through Illyana/Neph/Brom/Haar/Lethe/Mordecai/Heather to the GMs, for those of you who don't know.

Shipped Resources

Things that will most likely be on Illyana are listed here. Witht eh Peasants, you have more than enough room to make up your mind.

Brave Sword

Hammer

Speedwing

Blue Gem

Ashera Icon

Arms Scroll

Whatever skills you can fit on or in her inventory

Of course, you're free to switch out the Icon or Scroll if you need to make more room for skills, but it's there.

The Hammers

These best go to Titania and Haar, who are first to frontline, and have this way to get Armors out of their way. There's also Boyd, who might as well have one for 3-5 when Titania and Haar are probably concentrating more on charging Lombrosso, and the generals are on the far right. However, that's only if you're gonna bother using him seriously.

Brave Sword

It helps Ike bust armors as well, since he can ORKO them with it (Not exact on the stats, but it's an agreed upon fact. To lazy to whip up stats). Mia's not strong enough, and frankly it would be a waste to put it to any other use.

Wyrmslayer

This is so Mia and Ike don't have to squabble over the one they have. Not like the DB have any use for it anyways.

THE SPEEDWINGS!!!!!

Oh, please let there be no shitstorm from this one...

You get two, one from the DB and another from the Peasants. The best users are undoubtedly Titania and Haar. Titania gets 23 AS to double the instant you get it, and it's possible she could get 24 AS in a level to keep her doubling most of the enemies throughout Part 3. Haar is similar, however, he needs that and 3-3s Crown to go with it. I can't imagine why you WOULDN'T do this, considering how the game practically seems to revolve around the sleepy wyvern lord for the GM. 3-4 he's able to Savior fly Ike up to the arrival point, along with helping Ike clear the summit for Ranulfs arrival, 3-5 he helps charge Lombrosso like a champ, 3-7 he flies over the swamp river to transport and own some Daiens, 3-10 he's the toughest lawnmower you got for the great number of charging enemies, 3-11 he's transporting Ike all the way to the boss and can at the same time assist people over the pot hole traps. The effects Haar has are too great to ignore witht he wing and crown.

Its possible Kyza can get that wing if you're willing to work a Talisman Titania with BEXP to get her speed, but that's waiting at least 2-3 chapters, delaying our second powerhouse killer for a guy with no range and transformation issues to deal with, so while it helps him, it does not help efficiency overall. I only bring this up because I know it was gonna be brought up, so there. If it is agreed upon to remove this, I will.

Meg's Fortune

Haar would love not to get critblicked as he flies through the many units with crit on him, such as thunder sages. This is moe effective than Nullify, because Nullify still leaves him vulnerable to OHKOs from crits from said mages, along with getting further pinged by units such as snipers.

Zihark's Adept

Guess this means Soren should keep his, lolololol

All honesty though, if using Neph seriously, she would probably enjoy this. Wrath Adept sounds pretty nasty. I think Shinon wouldn't mind either, but even though he has the speed for the activation rate, the problem is more from his non-existent enemy phase.

Fiona's Savior

Haar does more transportation than anyone else, he would like to not have his speed cut in half.

Tormod's Celerity

I'm not sure Haar can equip Fortune, Savior AND Celerity, though you might be free to switch them out for when he doesn't need to transport someone. There's also Titania, or whoever you want to also join up on the front lines with the cavs/Haar if you wanna go that route. Very flexible skill.

Reyson also wouldn't mind it at all. Whatever allows him to keep in pace with your army to do what he does best is always a good thing.

The Talisman

Titania to be better BEXP abused, giving her more likeliness to get Speed. This helps her avoid needing her own Crown.

Energy Drop

There's always Neph again for more power in her doubling and Wrath. However, there is also...I forget which one, but it's one of the Hawks. Ulki? Well, one of them can use it to give them better ORKOing power, leaving them less dependent on skills.

Then of course, there are things you ship to them for the sole purpose of selling, to give the GMs a superb amount of gold for forging and other stat boosters/skills. Statue Frags, Gems, Ashera Icons, Secret Books, Arms Scrolls, the such.

The People's Skills of the Peasants and CRK will be touched upon in Part 3's overall People's Skills section when it comes up.

Let me know if I missed something.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Master Tang

[dondon151]

You might want to cover exactly what items you want to be fitting onto Ilyana from part 1.

Also, it's Beast Killer. I'm not too keen on sending it over because Heather's combat sucks anyway and a Steel Knife forge is superior due to forging more hit.

[grandjackal]

You might want to cover exactly what items you want to be fitting onto Ilyana from part 1.

Suppose I should make the list as such?

Brave Sword

Hammer

Speedwing

Blue Gem

Ashera Icon

Arms Scroll

Whatever skills you can fit on or in her inventory

Also, it's Beast Killer. I'm not too keen on sending it over because Heather's combat sucks anyway and a Steel Knife forge is superior due to forging more hit.

Pardon that.

I only brought it up because Narga brought it up, so I figured if someone was gonna bring that inaccurate thing up I might as well list it.

Now knowing that, I might as well remove it.

[Narga_Rocks]

Suppose I should make the list as such?

Brave Sword

Hammer

Speedwing

Blue Gem

Ashera Icon

Arms Scroll

Whatever skills you can fit on or in her inventory

Pardon that.

I only brought it up because Narga brought it up, so I figured if someone was gonna bring that inaccurate thing up I might as well list it.

Now knowing that, I might as well remove it.

Cry. But it has crit and doesn't cost an arm and a leg for only 20 attacks.

Basically, if you use Heather my idea is to go around with beast killer and one steel knife forge. Well, and steel dagger. And after 3-7 a silver dagger. Then go for the cheapest thing that works at any one moment.

[Fenrir]

Cry. But it has crit and doesn't cost an arm and a leg for only 20 attacks.

Basically, if you use Heather my idea is to go around with beast killer and one steel knife forge. Well, and steel dagger. And after 3-7 a silver dagger. Then go for the cheapest thing that works at any one moment.

it doesnt cost an arm an a leg but is it worth it? heather isnt the greatest unit or anything, and a beast killer aint fixin that, another skill, savior/celerity or something would be better IMO

[Anouleth]

I'd rather have Paragon. Unless it's agreed that it goes on Jill for 3-13h4x.

What else is there? Maybe a Fire forge for Soren, since he can't make them until 3-4. We likely have one left over from Part 1, so it's free. If we made a Steel Bow forge for Leonardo, Shinon could take it (Leo has Lughnasadh in Part 3). Steel Axe forges likely aren't worth shipping. Ilyana can't carry Celerity and Savior in her capacity iirc, even if we promote her.

Do GMs even need all this money? That's 13k in sellables, and they have 10k to begin with. Then we have the CRK stuff (Two Scrolls, Icon, Book) for up to 16k more. As I recall, Interceptor actually ended up with so much money he didn't know what to do with it in Part 3. I guess it's money for the Silencer, Dracoshield, and the other Secret Book if we want two.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

While we're at it, it might also be good to figure out proper distribution of BEXP, as messy as that gets.

[Fenrir]

I'd rather have Paragon. Unless it's agreed that it goes on Jill for 3-13h4x.

What else is there? Maybe a Fire forge for Soren, since he can't make them until 3-4. We likely have one left over from Part 1, so it's free. If we made a Steel Bow forge for Leonardo, Shinon could take it (Leo has Lughnasadh in Part 3). Steel Axe forges likely aren't worth shipping. Ilyana can't carry Celerity and Savior in her capacity iirc, even if we promote her.

Do GMs even need all this money? That's 13k in sellables, and they have 10k to begin with. Then we have the CRK stuff (Two Scrolls, Icon, Book) for up to 16k more. As I recall, Interceptor actually ended up with so much money he didn't know what to do with it in Part 3. I guess it's money for the Silencer, Dracoshield, and the other Secret Book if we want two.

iirc GMs start with 5k...and i like shipping skills mainly to GMs and ilyana can just take savior and celerity in her inventory, unless you think something else is more important.

While we're at it, it might also be good to figure out proper distribution of BEXP, as messy as that gets.

oh god no, there is no proper way to use BEXP because i might be using mist and dumping alot on her while your using much higher levels and using almost none on them.

[Anouleth]

While we're at it, it might also be good to figure out proper distribution of BEXP, as messy as that gets.

Well, this is the thing - say I want to get Volug to 21AS for 1-E, and I give him BEXP (Speed is his 3rd highest growth). If he procs speed on his first go-around, I only need to give him one level, but it might be I need to feed him two. Because what BEXP gives you is so... hard to predict, unlike giving someone a stat-booster or Celerity we can't really anticipate what happens with it. I mean, when Int was doing his run, Nolan ended up being speed-screwed and he gave BEXP to fix that, but obviously that's not applicable to most playthroughs because Nolan generally stays near his averages. I think we shouldn't attempt to predict how best to distribute BEXP - aside to discard characters that obviously can't use it effectively and to say that characters like Titania or Ike or Mia or Nephenee can slowplay in Part 3.

iirc GMs start with 5k...and i like shipping skills mainly to GMs and ilyana can just take savior and celerity in her inventory, unless you think something else is more important.

5k starting and 5k from the Blue Gem in 3-1. 10k total. And Ilyana only has so much space. Brave Sword + Hammer + Speedwing + Scroll + Blue Gem + Icon is almost her whole inventory. She can take an extra skill, or a forge. Although a skill is probably more worthwhile than a +5 Steel Bow or whatever. Still, if we want three skills (e.g. Celerity, Saviour, Adept) we need to give up the Icon.

[RNG Princess]

Celerity can also be good on a heron.

[Fenrir]

Celerity can also be good on a heron.

reyson wit celerity is amazin, 10 movement ftw

[nflchamp]

oh god no, there is no proper way to use BEXP because i might be using mist and dumping alot on her while your using much higher levels and using almost none on them.

Dumping loads of BEXP on Mist will never be efficient. We might not be able to tell exactly what team is around or what their stats are, but we should at least be able to section off who is a bad unit to give BEXP to and who is more likely to get BEXP.

[Fenrir]

Dumping loads of BEXP on Mist will never be efficient. We might not be able to tell exactly what team is around or what their stats are, but we should at least be able to section off who is a bad unit to give BEXP to and who is more likely to get BEXP.

well no mist is bad in combat thats pretty hard to fix. i guess itd be nice to have bexp guide, but i think it belongs in a different topic.

Edited June 4, 2010 by King Soren

[Narga_Rocks]

What else is there? Maybe a Fire forge for Soren, since he can't make them until 3-4. We likely have one left over from Part 1, so it's free. If we made a Steel Bow forge for Leonardo, Shinon could take it (Leo has Lughnasadh in Part 3). Steel Axe forges likely aren't worth shipping. Ilyana can't carry Celerity and Savior in her capacity iirc, even if we promote her.

tier 2 Ilyana: shove, free shade. 5/30 capacity used.

Celerity = 15 cap

saviour = 10 cap

you do the math.

All that information is available on this site, btw.

While we're at it, it might also be good to figure out proper distribution of BEXP, as messy as that gets.

Too hard. If Mia gets to 65 exp after one map, are you really not going to bump her up to get str + def + lck? Not if you want her to stay as good as she can be. Units take pretty random amounts along the way.

well no mist is bad in combat thats pretty hard to fix. i guess itd be nice to have bexp guide, but i think it belongs in a different topic.

Resource Allocation Topic, and bexp is a resource. If we do it at all, here is just fine. Besides, GJ (or me) will post a link to it in the first post. It won't be hard to find.

[Fenrir]

[Resource Allocation Topic, and bexp is a resource. If we do it at all, here is just fine. Besides, GJ (or me) will post a link to it in the first post. It won't be hard to find.

may i ask who/what GJ is? i just think of gj as being an abriviation for good job