Lord of Azure Flame: Suggestions

[Inactive Account]

Moved from this topic.

~Fireman

Posting here because it's to do with the rules of combat and not current events:

So there's been some back-and-forth on ranged weapons and countering and stuff, and I'm sort of wondering why we can't just do it like it is in-game:

Sword/axe/knife/lance: Counters nonranged only

Magic Sword/Throwing Axe/Throwing Knives/Javelin/Magic: Counters nonranged and ranged

Bow: Counters ranged only

Long-range, if we ever get it (Bolting/Blizzard/Meteor/Ballista/Whatever): no counter (limitations on using it)

It's been noted that this makes bows/magic users a bit uber, but that seems like it would only be the case when we're up against units with no range and no enemy phases. This could be easily remedied by the inclusion of enemies with some sort of ranged (which we've had a number of times now.) Also enemy phases, especially given that archers and mages tend to be a bit squishy. Restrictions on how many times the no-counter thing would work could also work, though only being able to avoid counters once per battle's a bit strict IMO. Every other post perhaps?

On another subject, the dice tracker. It seems like rather a good idea, and people are using it more, but it also seems like it needs to be regulated a bit. What I'd suggest:

-Character names should be your character's actual name (or opponent x, etc)

-Campaign name should be Lord of Azure Flame, so we all end up on the same page

-What the roll is for should be in Note, so we can see what you're doing with it (i.e. attacking opponent x, countering opponent y, saving roll, etc)

Should we have these regulations, do you think?

Edited November 15, 2012 by kdanger

[Phoenix]

I can agree with all of that. My vote is yes.

[riariadne]

I agree. Every other post sounds fair because otherwise our archer and their awesome defense are going to get slaughtered (point of reference: Chase in the recent battle).

[-Cynthia-]

There's no sort of check to counter the fact that every sword user will claim magic sword, lancers will claim javelin, and axe users will use hand axes. So we're back to square 1 with everyone countering everything.

[Phoenix]

There's no sort of check to counter the fact that every sword user will claim magic sword, lancers will claim javelin, and axe users will use hand axes. So we're back to square 1 with everyone countering everything.

Don't they have to both acquire and have it equipped for that?

I imagine getting a magic sword for starters is stretching it a bit. As for javs, they seem to be common, and so are hand axes.

Is the goal here to stop counters in regards to archers altogether, or just balance things out more?

[-Cynthia-]

Um, that's the problem. Basically Damian can now just go "imma use my javelin" and not be countered by 1 rangers and coutner all attacks.

[Ether]

Except that we don't get to counterattack...

On that note,what is the point of Vantage,then?

[Balcerzak]

I find myself agreeing with Cynthia here. The "everybody gets countered by everybody, always" seemed to be working fine. When bows had the "never get countered on player phase", that was deemed too uber, due to lack of enemy phases, and hence for the first ~3 chapters Kelas never took damage.

Then we nerfed them.

Then we introduced enemy phases.

I think a compromise would be to try the "bow users get no counters every other player phase", see if that works. If it doesn't we can go back to the "bow users are never countered on player phase" original.

[Phoenix]

Um, that's the problem. Basically Damian can now just go "imma use my javelin" and not be countered by 1 rangers and coutner all attacks.

But that's how FE works.

Hmm. What if ... now bear with me. What if we institute this rule:

Using a ranged weapon(not magic) at range 2 or 2+ causes -1MT. Alternatively, it could cause -1HIT, or both.

[Ether]

That was Snowy's fix at the beginning when Damian had a spear. -1 Mt

[Kanami]

I wanted to avoid posting here, but

Magic Sword/Throwing Axe/Throwing Knives/Javelin/Magic: Counters nonranged and ranged

Should be exclusive to enemy units. Damian does not have a Javelin, and while I wouldn't mind him using one in plot combat, these shouldn't be available to PC characters. If you want your character to use javelins, it should not be able to use close combat stat weapons, and be treated as a bow class weapon

Magic is the biggest issue since it needs to be available to PC's. And has a tremendous advantage due to pretty much all NPC's having higher DEF then RES. :/ Only semi solution here is to lump magic in with the sword/spear/axe 1range group. (AKA bows are the only exception.

[Phoenix]

In my FE7 hack, Javelins are exactly like bows and can only be used at range 2 or higher. The same could be done with hand axes and throwing knives here. Regular lances would have to be equipped during the next turn though to even it out so they can't immediately decide that they have the range 1 weapon equipped.

[-Cynthia-]

OK, so...

Javelins/Hand Axes/Throwing daggers etc. are like bows.

Magic is like 1 ranged weapon (would make more sense for 2 range IMO).

2 range weapons get no counters every other player phase and cannot counter 1 range weapons on enemy phase.

Enemies using 2 range can attack 1 range w/o counters.

[Phoenix]

No idea what to tell you for the magic. I've pulled enough solutions out of my tiny birdbrain for the day.

Everything else seems fairly balanced though.

[Kanami]

We're going to be bombarded with archers soon XD

Magic would make more sense as a 2range, but magic is already overpowered enough without it being given the bonus of "no counters"

I'm assuming a bow attacking a bow would get countered though. Isn't exactly clear in the statement above.

[-Cynthia-]

Well, just logically for me it makes more sense that magic can only be used from far away and not at close range (casting time or something) than you have to be in melee range for tomes to work.

Like the archers, the mages have terrible HP/Def.

Yes, if you attack someone with the same range value you get countered.

Edited June 7, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Ether]

Again,we don't counter anything anyway,so why does our range matter?

Just have bows not take a counter the first time like they did before?It should work alright once everyone knows what they are supposed to do.

[riariadne]

That's too strict, though, because it makes 1-2 range stupidly cheap.

I liked Cynthia's idea of the countering thing.

[Ansem]

Why not give Archers a short bow and use it as mellee combat

[riariadne]

... That's not a bad idea, actually.

[Ether]

Like I said,none of this matters much at all if we do not counterattack anything anyway...

[Phoenix]

Why not give Archers a short bow and use it as mellee combat

Also in my FE7 hack

Short Bow 1-2

Iron Bow 2-4

Steel Bow 2-4

Silver Bow 2-4

Killer Bow 2-3

Long Bow 2-5

Etc.

Anyway, we need to seriously get crunching on rule revision asap.

[Snike]

If we DO implement magic weapons, they should be based on MAG, not STR, for the ranged at the least. Javs should be STR -2, or Hit -2, and Hand Axes Hit -2. Just my thoughts.

[riariadne]

I had an idea that would remove the uselessness of B and S supports (statwise). Currently C has the same bonuses as B and A has the same bonuses as S. So I had an idea- what if at C and A levels you only got your bonus? Let's take, for example, a Wind/Ice support.

C support: Wind affinity person gets +1 hit, Ice affinity person gets +1 def.

B support: Both people get +1 hit and def.

A support: Wind affinity person gets +2 hit and 1 def, Ice affinity person gets +1 hit and 2 def.

S support: Both people get +2 hit and def.

Sounds good, no?

[Phoenix]

I was thinking it should work the other way around. Mainly, C support level gives you only their bonus, and B support level gives you both, but that's just me.