Favourite Final Fantasy

[grandjackal]

Well he acts more like an adult than Squall and Cloud do, that's for sure.

True he can beat Squall, but that's not saying much.

I actually like Cloud. He's quiet and reserved, and sort of a dork. Granted he's kind of a dick early on, but he rolls with his flaws.

Then again, I don't see Cloud as the hero of FF7, despite the fact the story follows him. He's got his motives for sure for helping out, but he required more saving than I could consider a hero needing.

Who's the hero of FF7 then? It's Cid, and I dare you to prove me wrong.

[Dark Sage]

I don't really care about 7's hero....Sephiroth is completely overrated though. Kefka can easily beat him. Then again, he is like a FF version of the Joker, so of course he's better.

He can beat Vaan and definitely Tidus and possibly even Lightning since he doesn't need to bitch slap somebody to show how much he thinks that person is stupid.

So now it's him vs Bartz, Terra and Ramza.

[eclipse]

Don't forget Marche! I guess Luso can be added for the sake of completeness.

[Dark Sage]

He autowins them.

[Integrity]

Who's the hero of FF7 then? It's Cid, and I dare you to prove me wrong.

I post in this thread again entirely to throw my lot behind this fact.

[Ansem]

FFVII was cool. The only one i played. It even had its own movie. Then Vincent got his own game.

[Integrity]

FFVII was cool. The only one i played. It even had its own movie. Then Vincent got his own game.

I played that game.

Or rather, I played the first two-thirds of it and then...

grah

it was so absolutely mediocre it was sickening. I couldn't even really hate it.

[Soviet Gregor]

Stuck between FF6 and FF3

[Life]

I still don't understand why XIII gets shit on so much. I really liked it but I enjoy Tales games a lot where I'm also only controlling one person at a time. XIII seemed more like a Tales game than a FF game even with the title of XIII.

That being said, I dislike IV, VI and VII all for different reasons so I guess I'm just special.

[PipForever]

I normally hate picking the most mainstream option, but FFVII is by far my favorite in the series. Seriously, RPG characters don't get much better than Tifa and Vincent. I like the two of them so much that everyone else gets seriously neglected, even though I really like Aerith and Yuffie as well. Too many good characters shoved into one game :)

And as a surprising second favorite, I would have to say X-2. I expected to hate it, figuring it would probably be slightly worse than the OK FFX. However, I was surprised at how much fun I had revisting the FFX world with Yuna. Especially considering that I found Yuna to be a pretty boring character in FFX. I also love games that have a class changing system for some reason, which is also why I seem to enjoy Sacred Stones more than some.

[deleted35362]

Crystal Chronicles CUZ IT KIKS ASS!!1!1!!

[Momo]

I still don't understand why XIII gets shit on so much. I really liked it but I enjoy Tales games a lot where I'm also only controlling one person at a time. XIII seemed more like a Tales game than a FF game even with the title of XIII.

That being said, I dislike IV, VI and VII all for different reasons so I guess I'm just special.

While I haven't played it, FFXIII is still menu based and it's game over if the party leader dies. You spend more time just watching the action happening, then doing it yourself.

[Esau of Isaac]

I don't understand why everyone loves Balthier. I found him incredibly annoying' date=' personally, more so than Vaan.[/quote']

Because he's one suave, debonair motherfucker. He's like a more gentlemanly version of Zidane. It would have been awesome if he were the main character of XII. He's a radical departure from many earlier protagonists, so it would have been a fun challenge for S-E, I think. Alas.

Zidane, mature? I'm sorry, I think we're talking about two different guys here. He beats Tidus sure, but honestly...

I think I see where he's coming from with this, actually. Zidane was different from many earlier main characters in that he was not emotionally damaged goods; he knew who he was (...okay, kind of) and what he wanted, and his development as a person didn't involve breaking down as many walls, until his origins were revealed. Sure, he was lecherous, but that's because he was comfortable with being himself.

He goes off to get hammered and chase skirt when they hit Lindblum,

Something most men would do in the first place.

and when Garnet is princess again, despite his mission being done, he's off in a bar getting hammered because he's butthurt he can't be there with her. We're comparing questioning the choice between patriotic loyalty to one's own purity to a guy who takes a break-up about as well as most high school burnouts do.

That's not completely fair. Cecil's involved in a much higher position that Zidane was. It's arguable that Zidane, in the same position, would have absolutely no problem reacting to this situation in a positive manner. Cecil seems to me to be more mature, but I find this to be because he's always been to me a relatively generic knight in shining armor. He didn't have to deal with the same romantic hopscotch concentrated on later installments because him and Rosa were ultimately clear with their feelings for one another. The whole thing felt far more medieval. Zidane has simply never felt any sort of romantic love for anyone in his life. Garnet introduced it to him, and it wouldn't have made much sense for him to deal with it in any other way, considering who he is.

The great thing to me about Zidane is he's aware of his role. He doesn't search around for redemption because not only does he not need it, he's not interested in it. He's convinced he's a heroic thief. I've always felt, even as playing as a kid, that Zidane was ultimately aware of the gravity of the situations he continuously gets himself into, but decided not to let it get to him. The alternative is to think of him as as a completely bumbling fool. Either he was aware of the consequences of being caught while trying to steal Garnet away and simply put on a good face, or he is just that completely idiotic. I can't accept the latter, it renders all of the otherwise mature behavior and critical statements he makes pointless.

[Intoner Two]

While I haven't played it, FFXIII is still menu based and it's game over if the party leader dies. You spend more time just watching the action happening, then doing it yourself.

Complaining about menu-based combat seems like an odd thing to do since this topic is discussing a series where that pretty much happens in each of its games. Having recently picked up the game myself, I have no real complaints on any aspect thus far that it has. Eidolons are mostly situational but I never really been one to heavily rely on such features in any RPG. So far, the battles in the game have been fun and offer a variety of challenges and approaches since at any time you may be wading through groups of relatively simple foes to find things much more resilient and/or threatening. Also, the whole wait time is mostly up to the player since actions can be expedited or canceled at one's discretion even when selecting the "auto" function. There are also instances where the auto function is really inefficient (often with Synergists, Saboteurs and Medics) so it will likely prove better to chose the commands yourself when you need to do something other than attack.

Anyway, my favorites are tied between IV, IX, and XIII as of now. I pretty much like each game for its story, characters and musical scores, too. XIII which I haven't finished yet (currently in the 5th Ark) has grown on me very fast with the amount of effort it has put into its main cast in general. I can find myself relating to things in pretty much each character and that makes the game all the more enjoying to play. The same thing applies to IV and IX; it's the characters that really keep me interested and coming back to play the game again even after finishing them. I think the reason the others don't leave as much as an impact on me is because either their main cast isn't very well developed beyond just one or two dimensions (a few people in VI, VII and earlier FFs), or the story is a bit too ridiculous and/or needlessly drawn out like a movie (VIII, XII). I'm neutral towards X and do find myself always liking X-2's combat system for reasons several other people have stated. I don't really dislike any FF game in general (and I've played pretty much each one in the series except III) but if you asked me to pick any particular one I liked most, it'd surely be one of my three favorites.

[Momo]

My post was comparing FFXIII to Tales. The two aren't really very compatible.

edit: also losing your party leader meaning game over is the worst fucking game mechanic I have ever seen and any game that has it would be better off without it

Edited July 27, 2010 by A boy named Sal

[grandjackal]

Because he's one suave, debonair motherfucker. He's like a more gentlemanly version of Zidane. It would have been awesome if he were the main character of XII. He's a radical departure from many earlier protagonists, so it would have been a fun challenge for S-E, I think. Alas.

Hell, he's even still a good looking guy who doesn't have to resort to being a pixie. I only say that because with how JRPGs been cranking pixie heroes out, it would have been refreshing to see someone who wasn't. Balthier is one awesome in-between.

I think I see where he's coming from with this, actually. Zidane was different from many earlier main characters in that he was not emotionally damaged goods; he knew who he was (...okay, kind of) and what he wanted, and his development as a person didn't involve breaking down as many walls, until his origins were revealed. Sure, he was lecherous, but that's because he was comfortable with being himself.

I would like to call bullshit on this one, considering how he simply left what he found to be a comfortable life and good friends for a tit he barely knew with the reason of "I protect girls", all the while handling it with the finesse of a guy quitting his job by punching his boss in the face. You're mistaking simplicity with maturity. Just cause he doesn't dwell on things doesn't mean he's mature. While it's true a mature person can get on with things, Zidane's actions were more rash and impulsive than anything.

Something most men would do in the first place.

For someone who said he would protect someone of which he tossed away his life's work and long time friends, he's sure not taking it seriously.

That's not completely fair. Cecil's involved in a much higher position that Zidane was. It's arguable that Zidane, in the same position, would have absolutely no problem reacting to this situation in a positive manner.

Unless Zidane became a pedo for a Terra-eque character, he probably wouldn't have given a shit because a pair of tits didn't make him drastically change his life this time around. Even if he did have a gripe about it, I recall King Baron having far more harsher punishments for people who wanted to leave, because you can't just punch a king in the face and call it quits.

Cecil seems to me to be more mature, but I find this to be because he's always been to me a relatively generic knight in shining armor.

This man had committed atrocities for king and country, he's got guilt to live with. Knowing you've done serious wrongs like that and making up for it is maturity. Has Zidane ever felt a inch of guilt for stealing for his own sake? Fuck no.

He didn't have to deal with the same romantic hopscotch concentrated on later installments because him and Rosa were ultimately clear with their feelings for one another.

Being clear with one's lover is once again a sign of maturity. They didn't have to because they knew eachother well. For a good portion of the game, Zidane's "romance hopscotch" is basically being a perv and then wondering why he couldn't see her when she became queen and went off to get smashed. In the presence of his old friends. That he turned away from for the sole purpose of getting in said girl's pants. As if their presence would help. As if seeing him again WOULDN'T piss them off. Considering that is sort of what happened the last few times they met when their paths crossed.

Zidane's a fun guy to be around, but let's not pretend he isn't a numbskull.

The whole thing felt far more medieval.

FF9 was indeed more light spirited, but I think with it brought some more childish personalities. Between "Life's a party" Zidane, most naive person in hte universe Garnet, the child minded artificial life Vivi (and even he was confronted with some serious stuff that overall lead to him maturing overall), wtf Quina, stock opinionated child anime girl Eiko and "I don't need anyone cause I'm so awesome" Amarant,who does that leave us with? Steiner, who I think is so OCD that he could be claimed as legally insane, and Freya, who got closure with an ex and realized what is left of her homeland went to ruins and got-over-it. Unlike "Awww my obsession doesn't want me around *glugglugglug* " monkey boy.

Zidane has simply never felt any sort of romantic love for anyone in his life. Garnet introduced it to him, and it wouldn't have made much sense for him to deal with it in any other way, considering who he is.

She didn't instill it into him, she didn't fall for him first. She asked him a favor, and he went loony. It was completely accidental, it was chance. Proof that being when she was queen, she could have allowed him to see her at any time. She's the freaking queen, word is law. She does nothing of the sort until the kingdom's on the brink of destruction.

She wanted someone to help her flee the kingdom while protecting her (because Steiner would have been completely against her leaving because it's his duty blahblahblah), and that's what she got. Not her fault Zidane took it so seriously.

The great thing to me about Zidane is he's aware of his role.

His role as a bodyguard? Because he's anything but aware of it.

He doesn't search around for redemption because not only does he not need it, he's not interested in it.

Really? Cause it seemed to hit him pretty hard when his thieving ways got him denied from seeing the new queen.

He's convinced he's a heroic thief.

He is delusional up until the point he actually did something heroic (Personally going to rescue Garnet form Thorn and Zorn's ritual).

I've always felt, even as playing as a kid, that Zidane was ultimately aware of the gravity of the situations he continuously gets himself into, but decided not to let it get to him.

Bravery is indeed one of his finer points. It could be more due to his rash and impulsive nature, but he has showed signs of both. Taking Garnet's mission was impulsively stupid. I doubt he even began to think he would be hunted like a dog for this (The Black Waltzes, that one psycho bitch with the massive axe, Amarant). Returning to Alexandria to rescue her personally while fighting through Alexandrian resistance? Bravery.

The alternative is to think of him as as a completely bumbling fool. Either he was aware of the consequences of being caught while trying to steal Garnet away and simply put on a good face, or he is just that completely idiotic. I can't accept the latter, it renders all of the otherwise mature behavior and critical statements he makes pointless.

He seemed surprised to see the black waltz when it showed up specifically to get Garnet (of which from there on surely he realized the gravity of the situation). He seemed surprised he was denied form seeing the queen after doing the job he was given because he thought they had something special. He left his friends and essentially a job that kept him alive and happy (seemed to me he didn't mind it until Garnet told him to do something else) for some chick who asked him to do her a favor without realizing the danger he was about to get into. He only really starts to make up for a lot of crap well into the second disk or to the third (it's been a while since I played).

Let's review what Cecil had to deal with. He looked over the last remaining survivor of a village that he played unknowingly had a hand in it's destruction. He threw himself at the mercy of the Mysidians who he had slaughtered knowingly because he was ordered to, despite the fact he had no choice in the matter of carrying those orders out because he was still responsible for it. He helped defend a country from his homeland's army, knowing it was in danger when he could have easily avoided the situation and headed straight for Baron. He's not a skirt-chasing letcher when he has a loved one (another reason Zidane being "romantic" with Garnet makes no sense, since he's still a perv like for once again an example being the time they first arrive to Lindblum).

I just can't see how they even begin to compare.

[Original Alear]

I just wanna say that even though I didn't like IX that much myself, those posts on it by Esau and Isaac were pretty good :)

[Intoner Two]

My post was comparing FFXIII to Tales. The two aren't really very compatible.

edit: also losing your party leader meaning game over is the worst fucking game mechanic I have ever seen and any game that has it would be better off without it

Ah, I see. Yes, understandable.

The loss of the party leader would make game over very frustrating if the game didn't have its own "Retry" option. Whenever you might get a Game Over, the Retry option lets you put yourself either right back outside the enemy's detection range (for normal battles) or at your last save point prior to a boss. This is a lot like the temp-saves of older FFs because it does not have any impact on your last true game save yet it still basically lets you give the fight another try at virtually no cost other than taking the effort to take on the boss again (maybe adjusting your gear beforehand or setting up different paradigm shortcuts) or giving you the chance to avoid the enemy on the map altogether. It's also possible to Retry the battle during a fight just by pausing it and pushing the "select" button on your controller. Same effects apply. The benefit to this is, let's say you were farming/grinding for a while and you accidentally respawn a rather irksome set of enemies that happen to KO your leader; the Retry option brings you back and still retains all your grinding/farming efforts, even if you didn't save your game data yet. So basically, as long as the console's power isn't interrupted, there's no need to worry about Game Over and its consequences very much during FFXIII. Of course, if you really just want to stop though and don't care about losing progress (or have no progress to lose), the conventional "Quit" option still remains and lets you reload your last true game save from the title screen menu.

[Life]

My post was comparing FFXIII to Tales. The two aren't really very compatible.

edit: also losing your party leader meaning game over is the worst fucking game mechanic I have ever seen and any game that has it would be better off without it

You clearly haven't played FFXIII (I know that you said that you haven't but this is like me bashing FFVII without ever trying it even though I have and played up to Junor before my computer crashed).

1. The whole watching the action rather than playing is a myth. How do I know? Because I play the game and I try to 5* every battle (for more TP in future battles to Libra the shit out of stuff). Every second I'm doing something because I'm trying to figure out the best way to knock 24k off of a giant beast within a minute when I'm doing about 300 or so a hit. I'm switching between paradigms every 5 seconds and choosing my attacks all the time. Pretty sure I'm playing more than watching.

2. Menu based? Hypocritical much? If FFXIII is going to slammed for that, you must absolutely hate FFVI, V and IV. The entire SERIES is based on using the menu.

3. While it's annoying that your party leader has to stay alive in order to not get a Game Over, it's stupidly easy to keep that person alive. For the first 2/3 of the game, Potions plus a Doctor's Code will take you out of the red zone instantly. Not to mention that Lightning, Hope and Vanille all have access to the Medic job for FREE healing within 2 seconds. Plus, switching to a Double Dose style set-up (2 Medics at one time) will basically make your party invincible. If you're smart enough to keep your guys alive while facing decently hard enemies (you face stupidly high HP counts starting from Palumpolum onwards), then you won't be that bothered by the Game Over mechanic since your party leader is usually the last person to die. And if you think it's hard to keep FF characters alive, you suck at these games.

That being said, FFXIII is easily closer to... say Tales of Vesperia then it is to FFVI for example. It shares item names and a similar menu system with FFVI. That's it. The linearity, the fact that your characters aren't cardboard cutouts once their original entrance scene ends, how fast the action is on the screen... Much closer to ToV than FFVI. And I use FFVI as my Final Fantasy example simply because FFVI is one of the most well known and best games in the series.

[Janissary]

FFX did some predictable stuff. Sin=Jecht, or at least, Jecht=Protaganist, was pretty evident. I thought the dreamworld was semi-unexpected, however, it was definately hinted at a lot.

[Momo]

*stuff about menus*

Way to go for completely misunderstanding my post. I was not complaining about the game, I was simply saying "You can not compare it to tales".

blah blah blah party leader

It's still a terrible mechanic and makes absolutely no sense. What depth does it add?

That being said, FFXIII is easily closer to... say Tales of Vesperia then it is to FFVI for example. It shares item names and a similar menu system with FFVI. That's it. The linearity, the fact that your characters aren't cardboard cutouts once their original entrance scene ends, how fast the action is on the screen... Much closer to ToV than FFVI. And I use FFVI as my Final Fantasy example simply because FFVI is one of the most well known and best games in the series.

This sounds like you're comparing story, while I was talking about gameplay. Using menus to attack is not what Tales does. Haven't played ToV, so I couldn't really tell you what its characters are like (other than what archtype they fill, pretty much).

[Life]

It's still a terrible mechanic and makes absolutely no sense. What depth does it add?

It doesn't but that's not the point. You don't lose progress if you get a game over, FYI. You lose out on maybe 30 seconds of your life since you go back to a bit before that fight. Not to the last save point. Think of it like a Vita Chamber in Bioshock.

This sounds like you're comparing story, while I was talking about gameplay. Using menus to attack is not what Tales does. Haven't played ToV, so I couldn't really tell you what its characters are like (other than what archtype they fill, pretty much).

Well, I can tell you from experience that it feels less like a static FF game and more like a fast moving Tales game when it comes to the battles since timing is usually everything.

[Esau of Isaac]

I would like to call bullshit on this one, considering how he simply left what he found to be a comfortable life and good friends for a tit he barely knew with the reason of "I protect girls", all the while handling it with the finesse of a guy quitting his job by punching his boss in the face. You're mistaking simplicity with maturity. Just cause he doesn't dwell on things doesn't mean he's mature. While it's true a mature person can get on with things, Zidane's actions were more rash and impulsive than anything.

I don't think Zidane ever viewed it as a job. He wanted to get Garnet, and Baku didn't want him to, telling him he'd have to leave Tantalus to do so. I've viewed this over time more as Baku encouraging Zidane to leave, and that both of them were aware of this while they fought. I don't think that Zidane is rash and impulsive a lot of the time, but I do think much of this behavior is something that Zidane does to play a role he's comfortable with.

For someone who said he would protect someone of which he tossed away his life's work and long time friends, he's sure not taking it seriously.

Tantalus wasn't Zidane's life work. He didn't throw away his friends when he left them. He left them, but I doubt he ever thought he would see none of them again.

Unless Zidane became a pedo for a Terra-eque character, he probably wouldn't have given a shit because a pair of tits didn't make him drastically change his life this time around. Even if he did have a gripe about it, I recall King Baron having far more harsher punishments for people who wanted to leave, because you can't just punch a king in the face and call it quits.

No, but you can run away, something which Zidane seems to be fairly good at. Cecil seemed to survive pretty damn well.

This man had committed atrocities for king and country, he's got guilt to live with. Knowing you've done serious wrongs like that and making up for it is maturity. Has Zidane ever felt a inch of guilt for stealing for his own sake? Fuck no.

Because Zidane has never committed anything so wrongly as to feel as guilty as Cecil does. Last I checked petty theft isn't at all comparable to fucking murder.

Being clear with one's lover is once again a sign of maturity. They didn't have to because they knew eachother well. For a good portion of the game, Zidane's "romance hopscotch" is basically being a perv and then wondering why he couldn't see her when she became queen and went off to get smashed.

How is Zidane's reaction following Garnet's return to Alexandria and being barred by palace officials "a good portion of the game"?

In the presence of his old friends. That he turned away from for the sole purpose of getting in said girl's pants. As if their presence would help. As if seeing him again WOULDN'T piss them off. Considering that is sort of what happened the last few times they met when their paths crossed.

Again, he didn't really turn away from them. Also, I don't remember them being very pissed off when Zidane was there.

She didn't instill it into him, she didn't fall for him first.

I didn't say she did.

She asked him a favor, and he went loony. It was completely accidental, it was chance. Proof that being when she was queen, she could have allowed him to see her at any time. She's the freaking queen, word is law. She does nothing of the sort until the kingdom's on the brink of destruction.

You are blind. You have to be to not notice Garnet's entire scene with Steiner, Beatrix, and Tot. She said very specifically that she wanted to speak to Zidane. She very, very obviously has feelings for him, but did not speak with him on advice from Steiner --who fucking hates Zidane-- and Beatrix, both of them saying that she has no time for him anymore. She's a pushover, remember?

She wanted someone to help her flee the kingdom while protecting her (because Steiner would have been completely against her leaving because it's his duty blahblahblah), and that's what she got. Not her fault Zidane took it so seriously.

That's all she wanted at the very beginning of the game. This is worlds different at the end of the second disc, like twenty hours later gametime-wise.

She wanted someone to help her flee the kingdom while protecting her (because Steiner would have been completely against her leaving because it's his duty blahblahblah), and that's what she got. Not her fault Zidane took it so seriously.

You are trying to tell me that after Garnet returned to Alexandria, over halfway through the game, she held no feelings for Zidane.

Are you being serious.

His role as a bodyguard? Because he's anything but aware of it.

As a goof.

Really? Cause it seemed to hit him pretty hard when his thieving ways got him denied from seeing the new queen.

How is that related to what I said, now?

He is delusional up until the point he actually did something heroic (Personally going to rescue Garnet form Thorn and Zorn's ritual).

Implying defeating a man-eating plant to save a princess isn't heroic.

He seemed surprised to see the black waltz when it showed up specifically to get Garnet (of which from there on surely he realized the gravity of the situation).

Why wouldn't he be surprised to see the Black Waltz?

He seemed surprised he was denied form seeing the queen after doing the job he was given because he thought they had something special.

Because they did have something special.

He left his friends and essentially a job that kept him alive and happy (seemed to me he didn't mind it until Garnet told him to do something else) for some chick who asked him to do her a favor without realizing the danger he was about to get into. He only really starts to make up for a lot of crap well into the second disk or to the third (it's been a while since I played).

He left a group, he periodically meets his friends throughout the game continuously. He remains alive and happy afterwards.

He's not a skirt-chasing letcher when he has a loved one (another reason Zidane being "romantic" with Garnet makes no sense, since he's still a perv like for once again an example being the time they first arrive to Lindblum).

Because Rosa and Cecil are for all intents and purposes a married couple. Recall that this was before romantic progression between characters had become prevalent. Around then it was usually either characters were completely devoted to one another or they lacked a relationship at all. Zidane had feelings for Garnet, but who would deny he's at heart a woman-loving dude? Besides, the first time they arrive at Lindblum isn't incredibly far through the game. Their relationship hadn't progressed to a great extent by that point.

I just can't see how they even begin to compare.

I think you're arguing with the wrong person over this.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Esau of Isaac

[Momo]

It doesn't but that's not the point. You don't lose progress if you get a game over, FYI. You lose out on maybe 30 seconds of your life since you go back to a bit before that fight. Not to the last save point. Think of it like a Vita Chamber in Bioshock.

You have to do the entire battle over again, in the case of bosses, don't you? All because your two retarded buddies don't think to use a Phoenix down.

Well, I can tell you from experience that it feels less like a static FF game and more like a fast moving Tales game when it comes to the battles since timing is usually everything.

Swell. I'd play it, but I don't have a PS3.

[eclipse]

The only reason why FFXIII's "party leader death = Game Over" mechanic irks me is because I couldn't change my party leader for a huge chunk of the game, and I HATE using my leader as a healer. Once I could change out to someone I liked controlling, things got WAY easier.