H3 (Lunatic) Tier List

[grandjackal]

He'd have what, 18 or 19 speed after promotion? Let's do the calcs.

70% growth speed growth. He'd need 9 levels for 24 speed when returning mainland to double paladins. You got 8 chapters to do so.

Well, you could always try to feed him thief kills in his starting chapter, but I think Paperblade might have a point. That could be one close call.

But hey if he's decent on the bridge even without a promotion, I think Navarre is still pretty eligeable. What's the speed of mages after the bridge? After all, if he can double them too, why promote him off the bat?

Edited August 18, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Deliriyum]

I'm going to step in and defend Roger.

8/0 Hunter Roger Growths/bases

HP:60/26

Str:65/10

Skl:45/8

Spd:65/13

Lck:70/5

Def: 30/6

Now lets face it, that's a pretty epic growth spread. His bases are okay. He can get either a forged iron or an arms scroll for steel, he wants to be able to hit the dracos and flying dragons hard that are coming up.

10/1 Hunter->Sniper Roger growths/stats

HP:60/33

Str:55/12

Skl:50/13

Spd:70/17

Lck:70/6

Def:35/11

Now he's in the clear. His growths should carry him quite well.

10/10 Sniper Roger

HP:40

Str:18

Skl:18

Spd:24

Lck:14

Def:15

I think he should stay below Cain, but not too far below him. They are comparable when they join, except Cain's speed growth is redundant, and Roger is stronger in the long run. His only issue is weapon ranks. I think he should go Hunter->Sniper rather than cavalier because he can target the fliers better, and his bases don't warrant him to jump into 1 range combat.

[Don Draper]

What's the speed of mages after the bridge? After all, if he can double them too, why promote him off the bat?

13 AS, so 10/0 Nabarl doubles them without a problem (he'll have 17.4 AS)

As for Hunter Roger, you don't get the first Arms Scroll until Chapter 11. Until then he's stuck with lolEbows. Dracos in Chapter 9 have 43 HP/11 Def, and without a forge Roger has 25 Attack so a lol4RKO. He'll need a $1500 forge in order to 2RKO. On the other hand, he's OHKO'd by Mages (26 Attack), and ORKO'd by Thieves (26 Atk/19 AS). Dracos also ORKO him. So he's still not really doing that much better then as a cav.

In Chapter 10, he's still OHKO'd by Mages/Bishops which make up most of the map. All he can do is chip Mercs (40 HP, 5 Def) and a strength proc gives him 19 Atk for a 3RKO. When the extent of your utility is to 3RKO an uncommon enemy on the map, it really says something about your performance.

So not exactly that much better for jointime. Sure Flying Dragons show up next chapter, but they ORKO him if he hasn't got the levels to promote yet.

I don't think anybody who's limited to one sketchy option should be in Mid Tier. Low Tier seems like a better fit for him.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Ari Gold

[grandjackal]

Well, when we consider that, how easy you think it is to get him 6 levels before chapter 11, possibly even 10x? If the answer is "not that hard", someone needs to shoot up, cause that's when he maxes his speed cap.

Leo orb fixes his starting problems, Scorpio Orb lets him mess up flying dragons after promotion in chapter 11. From then, whatever speed problems he has dissapears.

In fact? Alternatively, he could go Hunter in chapter 11 while holding the Scorpio orb which in the least allows him to lure in Dracos. Then when chapter 12 rolls around we do like we did with Raiden and keep him unpromoted as a cav to build up mroe speed while bolstering some of Navarre's weaker aspects, using the Wyrmslayer instead of hte Dragonpike in this instance.

After 5 levels (since after the initial 6 he'd be level 15), he'd gain another 2.85 speed so that when he promotes...24 AS as a Swordmaster, with a bit more HP, Str and Def. Not sure how much of each, but it's an option he's got.

So, what's Cain got on that?

EDIT: Can we also let Ogma go with him?

Base Myrm Ogma: 25 HP, 7 Str, 15 Skl, 15 Spd, 5 Lck, 7 Def

Base Navarre: 23 HP, 9 Str, 16 Skl, 16 Spd, 7 Lck, 8 Def

Myrm Ogma Growths 90% HP, 50% Str, 50% Skl, 60% Spd, 60% Lck, 20% Def

Navarre Growths: 90% HP, 45% Str, 50% Skl, 70% Spd, 70% Lck, 20% Def

Ogma's got Prologue and comes earlier. Navarre's trade offs are that his lower level when Ogma and him finally meet will give him a better leveling speed and frankly he's got better speed growths for his class, the Str barely mattering and the higher Lck+Spd allows him more avoid. Navrre's also got MU and Marth as supports, two guys who will always be around. Ogma's got Shiida, who most of the time will probably be a more mobile class. Oddly enough though they have eachother. Ogma can start building his supports earlier, but Navarre's got more when they all kick in.

Also, what of the issue of crit? Because these guys will have skill maxed in about 8-10 levels, and from there they get 1 crit for every extra point. Given their supports, they could have an insane amount of it reletively quick.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Don Draper]

Well, when we consider that, how easy you think it is to get him 6 levels before chapter 11, possibly even 10x? If the answer is "not that hard", someone needs to shoot up, cause that's when he maxes his speed cap.

Well if he's getting about 2 levels by the beginning of Chapter 8, then that means he just needs 4 levels in Chapters 8, 9, 10 and 10x. If he gets a General kill from Armorslayer (we'll assume Luke has a +3 one that he can trade to Navarre) and then kills a Cav/Armor/Mage or two that should be 1 level. Then he should be doubling Chapter 9 Mages, probably good for another. These 4 levels give him 18.8 Spd by Chapter 10, enough to double the Mages in this chapter too. As long as he gets 1 more level from Chapter 10 and 10x then 14/0 Navarre by Chapter 11 shouldn't be out of the question. Of course I'm theorycrafting here, but I don't think its out of the question at all. Its a bit too early to make any hasty changes though, somebody should try using him seriously in a playthrough.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Colonel M]

There's an Arms Scroll in Chapter 8 that's dropped by a General.

[grandjackal]

There's an Arms Scroll in Chapter 8 that's dropped by a General.

....And? We still talking about Roger on this deal? Unless he can OHKO flying dragons with a steel forge, why would we give it to him still?

Hmm...Well here's an interesting tidbit of info. Regarding hte Bands that characters give you through supports. I just read the new base convo page and saw that they're listed. Let's see when we get which bands and when.

Marth MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 13x. Well if you ever need the band for that point in time, might as well give it to whoever wants it.

Ryan and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 6. Certainly helps when dealing with the armors around Lang, or the promoted cunts blocking the doors like campers.

Luke and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 6x. Just in case you need some extra oomph on Roro, but it could be better saved in case one of your fliers didn't proc the right power to OHKO the thieves in chapter 7.

Roddy and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 6x. Thanks Roddy, now I have even less reason to use you.

Cecile and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 10. Considering most of your team will have finishers anyways, it at least further gives us a reason to field her, since a speed bond sounds pretty helpful. Even leaving her a couple chapters, you could get it by chapter 11, which is right on time.

Gordon and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 8. Considering that paladins and generals are the main problem here, I have to question how helpful this is...Maybe save it for Minerva?

Draug and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 10. Hey, if you got Catria as a general? Go nuts.

Arran and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 8. Well, useless as it is, you're probably going ot be using Arran anyways. Might as well use it.

Mallisa and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 9. Well hey, if anyone's got low Luck, doesn't hurt.

Warren and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 10: I doubt you'd be using him for this long anyways.

Cord and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 10: Nice as it is...It means you have to bring Cord for all this time.

I suppose I'll stop for there, and you can decide who wouldn't mind these bands/how legitimate they are. I'll throw up more if there is interest.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Colonel M]

....And? We still talking about Roger on this deal? Unless he can OHKO flying dragons with a steel forge, why would we give it to him still?

If anything I was correcting IOS's statement about the Chapter 11 Arms Scroll.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I suppose I'll stop for there, and you can decide who wouldn't mind these bands/how legitimate they are. I'll throw up more if there is interest.

I'm curious, keep posting more if possible, if they are gotten from ingame supports then it's legit IMO. The only things I don't count are the items you get from clock events/Wi-Fi store.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Joey

[grandjackal]

Very well then.

Linda and MU: Magic Bond-Chapter 10. Hey, just in time for the magic group to show up! Only use I can think of for this is to stack with the fresh Capricorn orb. Could Etzel with Orb+Band kill a Flying Dragon with Shaver? After all, better to have Excalibur utility in two places at once, right? With it, he would have 36 might. Whatever lets us use Maric and Etzel together sounds great to me. Considering this entire time she has Aura Chip for 22 damage on unpromoted schmucks, she at least has some merrit in joining us in our adventure. And as we see, using her has payoff.

Paula and MU: Luck Band: Chapter 10x. Well, Roro IS a Berserker...

Bord and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 10x. As if you needed further convincing to not use Bord past his joining chapter.

Julian and MU: Speed Band-Chapter 10x. I suppose if you're saving up the Angel Robe from the armory, you could toss it his way and have a pretty decent combatant on your hands. In the least he'll pay it back with a temporary boost.

Matthis and MU: Strength Band-Chapter 1x. Not a bad band, but really? Matthis?

Wrys and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 11 at the soonest given you used him every map in Prologue, which good money says you haven't and might not see this till chapter 12 or 13. What the hell am I gonna do, use it for fighting the wtf asskicking mages with Bolganon in the crystal palace? Go to hell, Wrys.

Ogma and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 9 if you got him in Prologue, chapter 10x otherwise. Not that it really helps, since it's just a Skill band...

Yumina and MU: Resistance Bond-chapter 11: Again...

Yubello and MU: Magic Band-Chapter 11. Don't flatter yourself kid, you don't get off as easy as Linda does on this issue.

Sirius and MU: Luck Band-Chapter 11. Again, doesn't hurt.

Castor and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 11. Go fuck yourself, Castor.

Shiida and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 10. Again, doesn't hurt.

Barst and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 12. Doesn't hurt, but can Barst manage anything? Maybe he can slight something out going pirate in chapter 6...Anyone wanna look into Barst a bit more?

Rickard and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 12 or 13 depending on when you recruited him. Regardless, he better be joking.

Frey and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 13. Just in time for Raiden to show up! Thanks for reducing the price of a Dragonpike forge buddy!

Norne and MU: Speed Bond- Chapter 13. Dammit, why couldn't you go Hunter!?

Samuto and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 13. Really. You gave the person with an astoundingly high speed growth and no other redeeming qualities a shitty band for a stat he actually sucks in? It's a damn shame, Sammy...

Wendell and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 13. At least it's a bit more on time than Wrys's and Yumina's...

Ceaser and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 13x. Have fun warming the bench for me. Cold as fuck in this blizzard.

Raddy and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 13x. Shittier character, but at least he gives us something worth a damn.

Navarre and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 14. Yeah, Navarre should go up.

Feena and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 14. No pain at all.

Cain and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 14. Goes well with Navarre's Speed Band XD

Banut and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 15. Hey, I actually have a reason to give a damn about you!

Roger and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 15. Well, so much for arguing in Roger's favor.

George and MU: Skll Bond-Chapter 15. Much as this thing sucks, there's a good chance George might make an appearance through the dragon valley if you had forgone training archers seriously. If you did, it's a nice little thing he tacks on.

Minerva and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 16. Didn't I argue a +2 Def stat booster for you earlier?

Etzel and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 16. Well...Willing to use him one last chapter after dragon's valley?

Maric and MU: Magic Bond-Chapter 16 if you used him in all prologue missions. Well hey, he IS a magician...

Elleraen and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 16. Yeah, fuck you too.

Dice and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 16. Much as I'd love an Str bond...

Malice and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 16. I'd love a Speed Bond better.

Horace and MU: Skil Bond-Chapter 16x. Why are you even here? What are you doing in the desert? Why!? What posessed you!? Dolt.

Jake and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 17. Even if you were still up for debate, this wouldn't help.

Daross and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 18. Well holy crap. Just keep him away form flying dragons, get him 4 levels and give him that Poleaxe when going back to mainland, and...

Robert and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 19. You're hilarious, Robert. Though at this point, people should be breaking the 20 skill barrier and this would equate to a temporary 2 crit, along with higher support boosts AND the Geosphere. In the least, it can help with giggles.

Belf and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 19. Again, would be nice if you didn't suck.

Raiden and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 19. And then, Raiden had another gift for us...

Beck and MU: Magic Bond-Chapter 20. Why the fuck do you give us a Magic Bond?

Athena and MU: Speed Bond-Chapter 18, 20x if you didn't use her in Prologue. It's too bad you come back as garbage, Athena.

Xane and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 21. I'm sure Michalis would appreciate it if you kept all the Goddess Icons to this point.

Tiki and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 21. Well, Meteor DOES suck balls...

Dolph and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 21. In your dreams!

Abel and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 21. Go to hell, Abel.

Est and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 20x, 21 if you didn't use her in Prologue. Though seriously...Is it worth it?

Maccelan and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 22. Congratulations, you're fucking useless!

Astram and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 22. And so are you!

Katarina and MU: Magic Bond-Chapter 23. At least you give a bonus that's nice considering Gharnef and all...

Thomas and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 24. Wow. All the way to Medius, and this is what you have to give us?

Sheema and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 24. At least Medius has 40 Skill so having to avoid 20 crit might actually help somewhat.

Samson and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 24. I suppose this would help to...Help Samson not suck anyways.

Frost and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 24. Yes, this will save us from the helldragons!...?

Roshe and MU: Luck Bond-Chapter 22. We never liked you anyways.

Vyland and MU: Strength Bond-Chapter 22. Certainly doesn't hurt...Unless you count bringing Vyland along as hurting. Which, many of us would.

Sedgar and MU: Skill Bond-Chapter 22. Ouch...

Wolf and MU: Speed Bond- Chapter 22. Know what? Given that by the time you get this that most of your guys should have the speed to avoid getting doubled by 30 AS enemies? This actually isn't helping that much. I doubt 2 avoid is going to do much. Maybe if you're limited to ONLY Wolf on the team...

I lie. If you have 28 AS, it allows you to double Sorcerers. HA! Wolf has the best boost! Suck it, Zagaro!

Midia and MU: Defense Bond-Chapter 24. Know what? Even if I had the money to arena you to maybe get a point of speed AND a Speedwing to spare, this still wouldn't help. It's Medius! The worst he does is 2RKO EVERYTHING. Useless.

These are the bands you get form these units to MU. There are others of supporting other people in the cast, but let's seperate them for now.

Marth and Shiida: Defense Bond-Chapter 11. *Tosses it on Minerva, gives her Cancer and Taurus, now 3RKOd by Flying Dragons*

Luke and Roddy: Luck Bond-Chapter 10x. And even LESS reason to use Roddy!

Gordon and George: Skill Bond-Chapter 16. Know something? If you're using one, chances are you aren't using the other. Besides, all that for a Skill Bond?

Cord and Bord: Strength Bond-Chapter 10. Given that at least Cord gives you a Speed Band to go with this...I still wouldn't bother. Fuck these guys.

Shiida and Ogma: Strength Bond-Chapter 10x if you used him in Prologue, Chapter 12 otherwise. Something one or the other certainly wouldn't mind having. Anyone find it hilarious she gets this one before Marth's?

Julian and Rickard: Luck Bond-Chapter 12 or 13. NO

Ceasar and Raddy: Skill Bond-Chapter 13x. WRONG

Dice and Malice: Luck Bond-Chapter 16. Sort of a cruel joke, don't ya think?

Sirius and Belf: Strength Bond-Chapter 19. Not a bad thing if Belf weren't worthless.

Robert and Raiden: Speed Bond-Chapter 19. I guess Robert's good for something!

Est and Abel: Speed Bond-Chapter 20. Why does Est give you good shit?

Astram and Midia: Defense Bond-Chapter 22. More useless shit!

Samson and Sheema: Defense Bond-Chapter 22. Sweet, I am charging what is essentially an all magic army and you give me this!

Yumina and Yubello: Resistance Bond-Chapter 12. More of this shit?

Astram and George: 20x. At least Strength Bonds don't suck.

Gordon and Ryan: Skill Bond-6x. At least I might realistically use them for that long before I bench someone.

Shiida and Mallisa: Resistance Bond-Chapter 12. Well if you're using both...

Maric and Linda: Magic Bond-Chapter 16. That might be stretching Linda's time just a biiiiiit much.

Banut and Tiki: 20x. U mad?

Roddy and Cecile: Skill Bond-Chapter 10. I now have no reason to ever use Roddy. Ever.

Navarre and Feena: Speed Bond-Chapter 14. Kick ass, Navarre gets us two speed bonds!

Minerva and Est: Skill Bond-Chapter 22. I stand corrected.

Minerva and Paula: Luck Bond-Chapter 16. Doesn't hurt I guess, since both are pretty good.

Minerva and Catria: Speed Bond-Chapter 16. Oh Catria, how do you not kick ass?

Paula and Est: Luck Bond-Chapter 20. Errr...

Catria and Est: Speed Bond-Chapter 20. Let's review. Est can get us a Strength bond, a Skill bond, a Luck bond and two Speed bonds. Catria gets us 3 speed bonds. Yet it is still too bad that Est SUCKS!

Katarina and Cecile: Speed Bond-Chapter 24. If someone needs last minute speed saving...

Anyways, if anyone has a save where they get a Band in a convo, I want you to test something. Give said Bond to one or the other person who gave the convo for the bond, and then beat said chapter. Next chapter, I want those two supporters tested and tell me if while in "support range" if they keep the Bond boost or not.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Don Draper]

There's an Arms Scroll in Chapter 8 that's dropped by a General.

Still, it essentially seems like a huge waste to use an Arms Scroll to go from E->D Bows. It takes half the amount of w-exp to go from E->D then to go from say...C->B or B->A, and using it in this way allows for so much more potential then simply making a mediocre character slightly less mediocre.

[dondon151]

Numerically, E > D gives you the least benefit, but that's not necessarily true utility wise. Now, I'm not saying that's the case, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it unless you can show that moving from steels to silvers is more beneficial than moving from irons to steels (in the case of a bow user, since you should probably have a Steel Bow forge made earlygame anyway).

[deuxhero]

How do "bonds" work? Are they on top of the "support" bonuses (the "+10 Hit, +10 Avoid, +5 Critical and +5 Critical Evade" ones) or what?

Also, what exactly is it that makes the early pegs and prepromotes so badass? Is flying just that useful in lunatic?

Edited August 18, 2010 by deuxhero

[eclipse]

Also, what exactly is it that makes the early pegs and prepromotes so badass? Is flying just that useful in lunatic?

Fliers take no movement penalties over terrain like forests, and can fly over terrain that some (or all) units can't cross. Need someone across a bay ASAP? Your best bet is a flying unit. Wanna get something over those mountains? Fly there!

Prepromotes usually start with better stats than your unpromoted units will have at that time, better equipment, better weapon levels, and don't require a Master Seal (I'll address this part later). The weapon levels are crucial, because slayer weapons (rank C) help immensely (rank B silver weapons don't hurt, either). Weapon levels at C or above give bonuses to damage and/or hit, depending on the type of weapon, and IIRC, may reduce damage via WTA (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

For example, in Chapter 12 of SD, you'll get Boah. He's got all of two nonzero (or worse) growths, and his bases aren't anything to brag about. However, he also starts with a C in staves, which means he can start using the Warp staff immediately. In the harder modes, this is a lifesaver.

The harder modes also require tighter management of resources. Master Seals can be sold for a decent price, so if you can find a unit that does decently in a given role that doesn't require a Master Seal, then you can sell it for some much-needed cash.

Hope that explains everything.

Edited August 18, 2010 by eclipse

[Thor Odinson]

How do "bonds" work? Are they on top of the "support" bonuses (the "+10 Hit, +10 Avoid, +5 Critical and +5 Critical Evade" ones) or what?

They are items you can use to increase a stat by 2 temporarily for one chapter. However, they cannot cause you go over the caps.

[deuxhero]

Fliers take no movement penalties over terrain like forests, and can fly over terrain that some (or all) units can't cross. Need someone across a bay ASAP? Your best bet is a flying unit. Wanna get something over those mountains? Fly there!

Prepromotes usually start with better stats than your unpromoted units will have at that time, better equipment, better weapon levels, and don't require a Master Seal (I'll address this part later). The weapon levels are crucial, because slayer weapons (rank C) help immensely (rank B silver weapons don't hurt, either). Weapon levels at C or above give bonuses to damage and/or hit, depending on the type of weapon, and IIRC, may reduce damage via WTA (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

For example, in Chapter 12 of SD, you'll get Boah. He's got all of two nonzero (or worse) growths, and his bases aren't anything to brag about. However, he also starts with a C in staves, which means he can start using the Warp staff immediately. In the harder modes, this is a lifesaver.

The harder modes also require tighter management of resources. Master Seals can be sold for a decent price, so if you can find a unit that does decently in a given role that doesn't require a Master Seal, then you can sell it for some much-needed cash.

Hope that explains everything.

Ah, though prepromotes being high was the Dracoknight access.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Etzel and MU: Resistance Bond-Chapter 16. Well...Willing to use him one last chapter after dragon's valley?

He's actually not bad to use past dragon's valley. Assuming you had him heal a bit in Dragon's Valley you can continue to have him be a healbot and build his staff rank to a B for Again Staff use in the final chapter. Besides, he does have access to Thoron and Excalibur meaning he can still nuke stuff due to how poor enemy res is.

Also, what exactly is it that makes the early pegs and prepromotes so badass? Is flying just that useful in lunatic?

The early pegs are overlevelled when they join and they have nice bases. Catria has nice growths as well although Palla's isn't too bad, her speed is on the lacking side but still. Prepromotes have better bases and can therefore hold their own ground and don't require kill-feeding to get going along with not having to use a Master Seal. Some even have amazing growths such as Sirius for example. Sure, these pre-promotes may not cap stats but their stats will still be fairly high to contribute in the lategame chapters.

[grandjackal]

I did a bit of testing with those Bond Bands, and it's as advertised, simply +2 to the stat for one chapter. Was thinking that maybe it would add the boost to the supporting characters after the chapter it's used, turns out I was incorrect.

But I can't help but wonder if they have any future effects, since it's weird for them to be called Bonds. Maybe it grows like the support does and I just have to wait for it to kick in? I dunno, I'm wrong most likely.

...Imagine if I wasn't though. That would be messed up.

Something about George I wanted to mention.

Chapter 9, 10, and 10x if we're bringing George along, might prefer to get bow rank up as a Horseman due to mobility. Also, despite losing 7 might (Parthia might compared to Silver+ not having A rank) sounds like a loss, but it's not really one when you consider that it allows you to give EXP wto people who grow better, since George in all likelihood will be dumped after the valley. Also, despite not being to equip it, he can still use it to give him a Holy Water effect. While I don't believe we have stats on hte ground yet, it could potentially let him take on two mages at once.

As for the valley itself, once past the desert, George can opt to go General. 36 HP and 21 Def when going up against flying dragons and OHKOing them before they double is being 3RKOd. If he proc'd HP or Def, giving him the defense orbs allows him to be 4RKOd.

After about 5 levels or so (I wanna say more due the chapters he has before the valley), he could stay general and be given a Weapons Scroll for his lance rank to obtain C rank for Ridersbane. He'd have about 40 HP and 24 Def as a General, and if he can OHKO paladins, he's being 3RKOd. If given the Star Orb, he's 4RKOd (since the paladin will be dead before it can double). This isn't even counting out the ones who use swords, since he nulls their rank and reduces their damage down to 10. If George proc's an HP or Def, he is 5RKOd by them.

EDIT: Shit, sorry about the double post! If this post and the last one can be merged...Ugh, memory lapse.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Sirius

[Rewjeo]

General only has E bows. Even if you build up his bow rank to A as horsemen, he's still at B at first as a general, and, since I asked earlier, he isn't OHKOing the flying dragons without Parthia.

[Paperblade]

Fliers take no movement penalties over terrain like forests, and can fly over terrain that some (or all) units can't cross. Need someone across a bay ASAP? Your best bet is a flying unit. Wanna get something over those mountains? Fly there!

Prepromotes usually start with better stats than your unpromoted units will have at that time, better equipment, better weapon levels, and don't require a Master Seal (I'll address this part later). The weapon levels are crucial, because slayer weapons (rank C) help immensely (rank B silver weapons don't hurt, either). Weapon levels at C or above give bonuses to damage and/or hit, depending on the type of weapon, and IIRC, may reduce damage via WTA (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Actually, the reason Catria and Palla are awesome has little/nothing to do with the PK class (Dracoknight is awesome though, but everyone promoted can do that). There's not a whole lot of room for solo missions unless you're a certified badass (which usually means General), and PK is pretty much worse than Cav unless you really want the extra Speed growth.

The real reason is that Catria and Palla have a speed base of 7 and 9 respectively, which will probably dwarf that of any other unit (MU would need a minimum of +6 Speed from base to compete, other units don't really stand much of a chance). In addition, Catria's growths are baller. She'll have a 70-80% Speed growth and 50-60% Str growth in any class, in addition to a ~90% HP growth and acceptable Defense (30-35%). Palla's growths are not as good (50 less speed and 30 less Luck), but she starts out able to use Silver Lances, which puts her ORKO range on a good deal of enemies. Oh, and did I mention Palla gives Catria a support? Yeah, that's awesome. With Marth and MU added, that's +30 Avoid for Catria just about when dragons start showing up in droves. And dragons don't get hit forges, meaning their hit never crawls very high.

Oh, and did I mention they're going to be doubling as Cavs easily, which also lets them use the Lady Sword (meaning ORKOing with that too), which is even better because there's like no other good females early game (Malliesia and Linde are not physical units, Cecil's durability sucks). Other units need to be MU or RNG blessed to have a similar performance.

Sirius is awesome because he has auto A Lances and auto B Swords, as well as kickass growths. General Sirius will be your tankiest unit in Ch. 5. Thieves do 1x2 damage to him, Dracos will 3RKO even factoring in that they double him, and everything else is 5-6RKOing if not worse. Meanwhile, he OHKOs Mages with Silver and slaps everything else around. Since Sniper has auto-C Bows, this also means that Sirius doesn't really have to worry much about his weapons ranks. As a Swordmaster he has A Swords (Hero is halfway), he has A Lances in any lance using class, Sniper is auto-C. His only concern is his poor Luck and lack of supports to fix his CEv (Yubello sucks, Yumina is eh, no Marth, lolnyna).

[eclipse]

Actually, the reason Catria and Palla are awesome has little/nothing to do with the PK class (Dracoknight is awesome though, but everyone promoted can do that). There's not a whole lot of room for solo missions unless you're a certified badass (which usually means General), and PK is pretty much worse than Cav unless you really want the extra Speed growth.

The real reason is that Catria and Palla have a speed base of 7 and 9 respectively, which will probably dwarf that of any other unit (MU would need a minimum of +6 Speed from base to compete, other units don't really stand much of a chance). In addition, Catria's growths are baller. She'll have a 70-80% Speed growth and 50-60% Str growth in any class, in addition to a ~90% HP growth and acceptable Defense (30-35%). Palla's growths are not as good (50 less speed and 30 less Luck), but she starts out able to use Silver Lances, which puts her ORKO range on a good deal of enemies. Oh, and did I mention Palla gives Catria a support? Yeah, that's awesome. With Marth and MU added, that's +30 Avoid for Catria just about when dragons start showing up in droves. And dragons don't get hit forges, meaning their hit never crawls very high.

Oh, and did I mention they're going to be doubling as Cavs easily, which also lets them use the Lady Sword (meaning ORKOing with that too), which is even better because there's like no other good females early game (Malliesia and Linde are not physical units, Cecil's durability sucks). Other units need to be MU or RNG blessed to have a similar performance.

Sirius is awesome because he has auto A Lances and auto B Swords, as well as kickass growths. General Sirius will be your tankiest unit in Ch. 5. Thieves do 1x2 damage to him, Dracos will 3RKO even factoring in that they double him, and everything else is 5-6RKOing if not worse. Meanwhile, he OHKOs Mages with Silver and slaps everything else around. Since Sniper has auto-C Bows, this also means that Sirius doesn't really have to worry much about his weapons ranks. As a Swordmaster he has A Swords (Hero is halfway), he has A Lances in any lance using class, Sniper is auto-C. His only concern is his poor Luck and lack of supports to fix his CEv (Yubello sucks, Yumina is eh, no Marth, lolnyna).

*completely misread the first part of the question, and apologizes, for Paperblade answered it better*

However, if the player chooses a physical female MU, that's a third potential Lady Sword user. Not that it matters much!

I think the second part was about prepromotes in general, which covers everything from Sirius to Arran. I'm pretty sure the latter's useful in Lunatic, even if his growths stink.

[grandjackal]

However, if the player chooses a physical female MU, that's a third potential Lady Sword user. Not that it matters much!

Catria's got a base speed of 13 as a cav, and on average you need 15 to double enemies even such as Dracos. Great as Catria is, she doesn't get 4 levels automatically n chapter 2, and in that time the female MU could be using it to twice the effectiveness, possibly even with more Str (Lvl 10 Myrm-Cav MU most likely has 10 or 11 Str, switching to cav has 13. Catria switching to Cav at base would have 9 Str and doesnt have possibly additional rank for a slight bit more damage).

In fact, 13 Str with 12 might and C rank is 26 might. That's enough to ORKO dracos (33 HP, 9 Def). Well, ones with axes anyways (due to A rank lances nulling out the might and reducing it by 1 more damage on top of it).

Sooooo yeah. It might actually matter a whole lot.

[eclipse]

Catria's got a base speed of 13 as a cav, and on average you need 15 to double enemies even such as Dracos. Great as Catria is, she doesn't get 4 levels automatically n chapter 2, and in that time the female MU could be using it to twice the effectiveness, possibly even with more Str (Lvl 10 Myrm-Cav MU most likely has 10 or 11 Str, switching to cav has 13. Catria switching to Cav at base would have 9 Str and doesnt have possibly additional rank for a slight bit more damage).

In fact, 13 Str with 12 might and C rank is 26 might. That's enough to ORKO dracos (33 HP, 9 Def). Well, ones with axes anyways (due to A rank lances nulling out the might and reducing it by 1 more damage on top of it).

Sooooo yeah. It might actually matter a whole lot.

My fault for not playing the game, then.

Will there be any distinction in the tier list for early female units who might want the Lady Sword based on MU's gender?

[Don Draper]

We aren't really considering MU at all in this tier list, so I highly doubt there will be any distinction.

[Deliriyum]

I think Malesia, Wrys, Yumina, and Katarina should be put into the rest of the list. Anybody can turn into a healbot early game, so their only unique thing is staff rank, which isn't used much until around mid-game. Also, Malesia and Yumina can be good mages too. I don't see what sets these people apart from people like Wendell, Etzel, Frost.