Normal Mode tier list

[Don Draper]

Indeed, Ryan did proc speed 8 out of 11 levelups which means he was blessed by about 3 speed (all other stats are about average). Still, NM's lower enemy AS should make ORKOing easily possible.

[Colonel M]

That's still +8 Speed.

Yeah. I'm aware that it's still a lot of Spd to overcome, I was just pointing out that he had a Spd base of 6; not 4. :/

[Dat Nick]

What is Cecile doing outside of garbage tier?

This isn't Lunatic where everything and it's mother one shots her and she has no 1-2 range to make it easier.

Indeed, Ryan did proc speed 8 out of 11 levelups

Hold it right there. 11 levelups with 5 move and weakish chip for the prologue portion? (Even if getting to Hunter for C1 onwards makes things suck less for him)? How the hell? I had guys like, say, Luke at level 8 on C6, and I was going fairly danged slow. Sure, you've got a case, if you can actually justify Ryan getting such an absurd amount of levels in a rather brief timeframe.

Yeah, wyverns, but there's ample leveling and there's gaining more than a level a chapter, and when you're very poor for a lot of those chapters...

One would rush more on NM, anyway (because you won't get killed as often) so that makes the whole thing even more implausible.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Cav!Gordin

[nflchamp]

For anyone who cares, Ch. 4 bandits have 20HP/4DEF/4SPD.

[Dat Nick]

For anyone who cares, Ch. 4 bandits have 20HP/4DEF/4SPD.

This means Julian's nearly ORKOing them with Iron, for anybody who wanted to dispute his combat being worthwhile on this mode further.

[nflchamp]

This means Julian's nearly ORKOing them with Iron, for anybody who wanted to dispute his combat being worthwhile on this mode further.

What? He fails to KO. There's no reason to field him if he isn't KOing and there are no chests. I don't see how this makes his combat passable.

My point is still that if all Julian is doing is opening chests/doors and maybe fighting on the side, there is no two tier gap.

[Don Draper]

This isn't Lunatic where everything and it's mother one shots her and she has no 1-2 range to make it easier.

Hold it right there. 11 levelups with 5 move and weakish chip for the prologue portion? (Even if getting to Hunter for C1 onwards makes things suck less for him)? How the hell? I had guys like, say, Luke at level 8 on C6, and I was going fairly danged slow. Sure, you've got a case, if you can actually justify Ryan getting such an absurd amount of levels in a rather brief timeframe.

Yeah, wyverns, but there's ample leveling and there's gaining more than a level a chapter, and when you're very poor for a lot of those chapters...

One would rush more on NM, anyway (because you won't get killed as often) so that makes the whole thing even more implausible.

Just to test that theory I went through Prologue of Normal (took me about 10 minutes, wow this mode is a joke) and I immediately noticed the much lower enemy density. That and the ease of ORKOing means exp gain is likely significantly lower then in Lunatic. Also, Ryan is not "very poor for a lot of those chapters". He isn't poor in a single chapter. Move is a complete non-issue in the prologue due to the small size of the maps, and his "weakish" chip is better then Luke/Rody's and at a range to boot.

Anyways, Level 6 Ryan by the end of Prologue 8 is still very possible (Level 6 was what he was coming out of my Lunatic playthrough):

My other unit levels were MU (Level 7), Shiida (Level 7) and Merric (Level 12).

On that note, Athena/Cain are not necessary at all for NM Prologue just because of how much of a joke it is. I used Cain once, and Athena was kind of just...there.

EDIT: That Ryan right there can ORKO Chapter 4 pirates

Edited August 3, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Dat Nick]

What? He fails to KO. There's no reason to field him if he isn't KOing and there are no chests. I don't see how this makes his combat passable.

You can do so much worse than 2RKOing bandits it's not funny. In addition, his strength growth is absolutely crazy. Once he can use steel, he won't have problems on anything except dragons.

My point is still that if all Julian is doing is opening chests/doors and maybe fighting on the side, there is no two tier gap.

There is, because he is actually a competent fighter in this mode.

On that note, Athena/Cain are not necessary at all

Of course they're not necessary. But they're still helping.

EDIT: That Ryan right there can ORKO Chapter 4 pirates

I guess, but again that only helps me so much. As you probably noticed earlygame enemies are pretty suck on this mode, so while sure, Ryan can ORKO C4 bandits, I do have to ask how much this actually helps him overall and longterm.

[Don Draper]

You can do so much worse than 2RKOing bandits it's not funny. In addition, his strength growth is absolutely crazy. Once he can use steel, he won't have problems on anything except dragons.

Base Matthis 2RKOs Bandits, so you can't really get much worse then that.

Of course they're not necessary. But they're still helping.

They don't save a single turn, so ranking say...Athena that high based just on prologue utility on this joke of a mode seems suspect.

I guess, but again that only helps me so much. As you probably noticed earlygame enemies are pretty suck on this mode, so while sure, Ryan can ORKO C4 bandits, I do have to ask how much this actually helps him overall and longterm.

His high growths allow him to be consistently good throughout the entire game. Example: Chapter 19 Pallys have 13 AS. Ryan needs 8 speed levelups or 16 levelups. He could reach that 9 chapters ago. His ease of use and consistent performance mean that he's an overall solid unit and deserving of at least upper mid (I could easily argue him above Elren if you want).

Edited August 3, 2010 by Ari Gold

[nflchamp]

You can do so much worse than 2RKOing bandits it's not funny. In addition, his strength growth is absolutely crazy. Once he can use steel, he won't have problems on anything except dragons.

In NM? No, you really can't do worse than 2RKOing bandits. I have more problems finding combat units that can't ORKO bandits than can.

[Colonel M]

From what I can see, at the moment, unless you reclass yourself to a Mage and lack 8 Spd, the only unit that probably fails to 2RKO Bandits is...

...Yubello. Mother of God he 4HKOes the bastards. Thanks -2 Mag; what a dick.

Palla even OHKOes them with the Silver Lance and a Str proc (or the Star Orb shard).

Can I see some of the enemy stats for later in the game? In particular, Dragons in Chapters 11-14 and late late game.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Colonel M

[Don Draper]

I have Chapter 21 stats. They're pathetic.

Flying Dragon: 32 HP, 30 Atk, 19 AS, 14 Def, 4 Res

Sorceror: 28 HP, 22 Atk, 12 AS, 8 Def, 11 Res

Zerker: 35 HP, 26 Atk, 15 AS, 12 Def, 2 Res

Swordmaster: 31 HP, 31 Atk, 17 AS, 12 Def, 5 Res

Base Jeorge with Silver can OHKO Flying Dragons

Base Midia with Swordslayer can OHKO Swordmasters

Etc, etc

[Smiley Jim]

Flying Dragon: 32 HP, 30 Atk, 19 AS, 14 Def, 4 Res

Sorceror: 28 HP, 22 Atk, 12 AS, 8 Def, 11 Res

Zerker: 35 HP, 26 Atk, 15 AS, 12 Def, 2 Res

Swordmaster: 31 HP, 31 Atk, 17 AS, 12 Def, 5 Res

Yeah, so much for NM of this game being hard once you get to the later chapters. Even so, the sorcerers and swordmasters are still packing some high might(the sorcs with Glower do 22 damage no matter what, and the SM's have +30 crit with their Master Swords, so they are still somewhat threatening. The zerkers are still complete jokes, and the flying dragons are actually tame compared to their H2/3 counterparts. And no 1-2 range.)

Compare that to Lunatic, or even Maniac, where, by now, every enemy has 25+ AS, and a forged weapon. For the most part, the enemies are now complete jokes, but they aren't anywhere near as bad as they are in FEDS's NM(In a playthrough of mine, 2/3 of the enemies in Chapter 25 NM were doubled by Draug, who only has a 21 AS cap(and those same enemies, aside from the dragons, bishops, and Medeus were literally tinking his 30 Def.) I laughed and cried, then booted up my H3!Chapter 25 file.)

Edited August 3, 2010 by DA125

[Parrhesia]

So...Ryan is lower-mid because he 'only' has prologue utility (despite being passable at worst after that), and Athena is a tier higher because...

Edited August 3, 2010 by Agent Dale Cooper

[Darros]

Shiida is below Cecil. This needs to be fixed.

[Rewjeo]

So...Ryan is lower-mid because he 'only' has prologue utility (despite being passable at worst after that), and Athena is a tier higher because...

I have no idea. He's probably more helpful through the prologue and is then helpful in the main game. She shows up and is 2HKOd unless she's a general and is doubled as a paladin or slower class. She's getting off one attack per turn thanks to her being 2RKOd and never doubling. So falco's probably her best class (same total ATK as SM, but more MOV, and anything else that would keep a good weapon level is ORKOd) and it only gives her 12 STR and B swords. 35 with a wyrmslayer and not doubling? That sucks. 26 ATK with a master/lady/silver and only doubling slower enemies?

Clearly Athena's much better than Ryan, amirite?

[Deliriyum]

Shiida is below Cecil. This needs to be fixed.

Shiida's wing spear is much less valuable in NM, and Cecil can actually do stuff. It's a tough call.

[Colonel M]

Shiida's wing spear is much less valuable in NM, and Cecil can actually do stuff. It's a tough call.

I doubt it. Giving it a small forge probably allows you to even OHKO Armor Knights, given how pathetic these enemies look. Chapter 6 Armor Knights don't even seem to break to 30 HP. If the AKs have roughly the same Def as they do in NM, it takes about 39 Atk to OHKO the AKs here. With Wing Spear already having 24 Mt, adding +3 to the forge gives it 33 Mt, which means all it requires is 6 Str to OHKO. I doubt you can OHKO the Generals with it, but I wouldn't completely doubt it either. You only have one Hammer and Armorslayer too, which I admit slightly diminishes the value of the Wing Spear.

Then again Cecil rapes at the word "go" perhaps in this game, so I can probably buy Cecil > Caeda anyway.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Colonel M

[Deliriyum]

I doubt it. Giving it a small forge probably allows you to even OHKO Armor Knights, given how pathetic these enemies look. Chapter 6 Armor Knights don't even seem to break to 30 HP. If the AKs have roughly the same Def as they do in NM, it takes about 39 Atk to OHKO the AKs here. With Wing Spear already having 24 Mt, adding +3 to the forge gives it 33 Mt, which means all it requires is 6 Str to OHKO. I doubt you can OHKO the Generals with it, but I wouldn't completely doubt it either. You only have one Hammer and Armorslayer too, which I admit slightly diminishes the value of the Wing Spear.

Then again Cecil rapes at the word "go" perhaps in this game, so I can probably buy Cecil > Caeda anyway.

Yeah, Caeda can OHKO AK's and cavaliers, but pretty much half your team can one round them, so it's not very special.

[Colonel M]

Yeah, Caeda can OHKO AK's and cavaliers, but pretty much half your team can one round them, so it's not very special.

There's a difference between OHKOing and ORKOing. OHKOing means that Caeda doesn't take a counterattack in the process while the person ORKOing possibly does (unless it's done via 2 range, and I bet some of the AKs here have Javelins).

[Colonel M]

I went up to Chapter 6 before I finally stopped. Thankfully NM is more for beginners to the franchise, but seriously I didn't think the game would be easier than FE3 Book 2. The game pretty much became a "Arran, Sirius, and Palla trio". The rest of the cast pretty much did little. Oh, Marth took 2 damage from a Cavalier in Chapter 2. That was pretty pro.

I'm curious on what we're assuming here. If we're assuming the maximum efficiency stand point, a lot of units need to go down. In particular:

- Cord, Bord, and Castor are worthless to recruit. Julian is for Rickard | etc.

- Catria likely needs to go down. I found her getting EXP RARELY just because I had Arran *Yawn* through the entire thing.

Also, unless you "literally" ban Arran a lot of units are going to corkscrew lower despite joining earlier.

I also love how I could half ass the game and beat it with little casualties.

For other shits and giggles, I forged a +2 Mt Iron Sword that I only used on one Bandit with Julian in Chapter 4. This chapter was done in 4 turns ignoring Castor; 3 is possible if you ignore Shaver. I early promoted Palla in Chapter 5; though I would've done it by Chapter 3X.

As for healing: Vulneraries were used. I used a Heal Staff... maybe 3 times. MAYBE.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Colonel M

[riariadne]

Sirius- possibly below MU?

Frey- Down below Luke. Luke's got more availability and probably better stats then he does on join time, and IIRC better growths.

Cain- He joins pretty late, below Cecile might be better

Minerva- below Caeda just for her better availbility maybe?

Marth- Maybe a bit higher

Michalis- Awesome as his bases are, he has really awful availability. he should drop.

Riff- I really think he could drop. Prologue utility isn't all that special, its' only a few chapters and she's awful when she rejoins.

Athena- Like Wrys.

Jeorge- What's his starting bow level again? That could change things.

Cord- Aren't his growths amazing now? I know they're no Draug, but still.

Wolfguard- Somewhere in bottom or negative utility maybe? Aren't they a pain to recruit?

Bantu-Maybe somewhere in low mid.

[Rewjeo]

Last I heard, we didn't punish units for their recruitment, or at least not much. Wolf/Sedgar can also probably at least be decent anti-flier units lategame. They suck, but they have their uses. Now, Roshea and Vyland...

[Colonel M]

In the OP:

Negative contributions DO exist. Characters like Matthis and others are going to flush a bunch of turns down the toilet just to recruit them that they are never going to earn back, and get their own special tier for it.

I bolded the important part. This tier list assumes that, if a character is not worth the amount of turns that it takes to recruit him / her, they are automatically considered in the Tier.

[Rewjeo]

Still, you don't have to go way out of your way to recruit... dang it, you have to recruit Vyland, then Sedgar, then Wolf. You could really already be past Sedgar by the time Vyland even shows up, so...