[Questions] HNM & HHM

[Nic]

 I looked up this http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=19563&st=0 thread, and i planned a team for HNM, im actually in Chapter 31X.

The team consist:

Eliwood

Lowen

Hector

Oswin

Guy

Lyn

Canas

Pent

Louise

Geitz

Rath

Priscilla

Heath

Matthew

I want to make a

 to put the exactly stats that they have... but im still trying to understand this forum. My question is if its a solid team for HHM.

Another one is if its necessary to outfit in excess to do a better output.

Thanks.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Nico~

[chococoke]

Well, first of all, if you're playing HHM the first thing you're gonna find out is that you are gonna have to use Marcus. Yup. I found that out the first time I played HHM, and it was the first time I ever leveled him up past level 1.

The team you have is solid, though I would definitely recommend dropping someone for Raven. Raven has awesome growths as well as HHM bonuses for being an enemy. You probably will also want to end up using either Sain or Kent. If you're doing LHM beforehand (which you definitely should) then you should spend all of your time training only one of those two instead of both. Paladins are awesome in FE7. In fact, FE7 is pretty much the last game where paladins are awesome.

[Nic]

Well, first of all, if you're playing HHM the first thing you're gonna find out is that you are gonna have to use Marcus. Yup. I found that out the first time I played HHM, and it was the first time I ever leveled him up past level 1.

The team you have is solid, though I would definitely recommend dropping someone for Raven. Raven has awesome growths as well as HHM bonuses for being an enemy. You probably will also want to end up using either Sain or Kent. If you're doing LHM beforehand (which you definitely should) then you should spend all of your time training only one of those two instead of both. Paladins are awesome in FE7. In fact, FE7 is pretty much the last game where paladins are awesome.

I will drop Lowen, Rath and Oswin, so i could include Marcus and Kent. I have a free space left, and i dont have any support with Geitz, any suggestion?

[Balcerzak]

Are you playing for fun, for efficiency, or for ranks?

[Nic]

Are you playing for fun, for efficiency, or for ranks?

Im playing for fun, and trying to play efficiently.

[Balcerzak]

I will drop Lowen, Rath and Oswin, so i could include Marcus and Kent. I have a free space left, and i dont have any support with Geitz, any suggestion?

Geitz doesn't need supports to be awesome. Just his B rank in Bows. Further suggestions. Guy has a tendency to get strength screwed. If he's doing poor by the time you get to Erk, strongly consider switching him out for the mage. You're definitely going to want a flier prior to Heath, IMO, and Florina isn't bad. My play style always requires a dancer as well, so I'd put Ninian on the team, but that may not jive with how you do things.

[Mekkah]

In fact, FE7 is pretty much the last game where paladins are awesome.

Paladins were at their peak in FE9 but they haven't ever really been properly nerfed other than in dismounting games and FE10.

You will find Lyn and Eliwood aren't all that great in HHM, the former for having wet paper durability, and the latter for being mediocre all around until he's received so much favouritism that he's become good all around. This is possible, but not desirable for efficiency. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it though, especially not if you want Geitz (and you do).

Lowen, Hector and Guy are all solid units.

Canas, you might find, profits a lot from that first Guiding Ring. I wouldn't say to give it to him as soon as possible (as it murders his EXP gain), but somewhere between 13/0 and 20/0, when his EXP bar is low at the start of a level. He'll gain 4 AS, which means he'll start doubling a whole lot more, and he'll also be able to Heal. He won't get more than Mend unless you actively try to get his rank up throughout the game, which isn't too great of an idea because Priscilla also needs leveling.

Pent is a great low resource unit. Louise is a niche unit, useful for situations which require Pent to take on a lot of enemies on his own. Carefully place her just out of enemy range, like in their joining chapter, while Pent is in range and using that +3 def to its fullest. She's also good for using high level bows, but you also have Geitz for that (he just can't use Silver), and Geitz is better in like every way. But if you don't manage to get Geitz, she can do things like using Longbow on Luna Druids.

Geitz is another low maintenance man that can do almost anything to you as long as it's not magical. Axes and bows have insane versatility and he's the fastest guy who can use both.

Rath is rather bad, and will be a pain to train, especially since around the time he rejoins you will be feeding EXP to Eliwood and Lyn to try and get Geitz before FFO hits. But, like almost any unit, he's usable. It's just that he's your third high-level bow user, so he's not going to add much. Good rescue/drop bot, though.

Priscilla is great. Hard to level up if you don't let her heal every single point and you finish maps as quickly as you can, though.

Heath is the easiest flier to raise barring Farina, surprisingly, since you can concentrate EXP into him for a short time and then he becomes awesome and durable. Still, it requires favouritism, once again taking off EXP you'd want to give to Rath or your lords.

Matthew is of course stellar. Give him some Lyn Mode EXP and consider giving both the Robe and the Ring to him, it makes earlygame a lot easier if he's in good condition.

What I'd recommend doing is dropping Rath, it'll save you a lot of trouble, and you won't have enough unit slots for all these units anyway. The other units are all fine.

[Integrity]

I dropped you a pair of comments explaining code tags, mate. Enjoy.

As per the team...yeh, Rath. Louise will fulfill all the bow obligations (and with gusto) and anything needing mopped up Geitz can do. He also has the personality of a block but that's just me. I'd drop him.

[icey]

Your team will definitely shrink when you get to HHM, because you are limited to very few deployment slots per chapter. In some chapters you'll only be able to deploy like, 6-8 units.

In HHM, there are going to be a lot of tough magic users starting midgame or so. Staff users with high Staff Weapon Level are very helpful, because you can use things like Physic, Restore, Barrier, Rescue, Warp, or even Torch. Pent starts with an A rank in staves, and has an auto-support with Louise if you're using her, as well as solid stats. Lucius is probably better than Canas because gets a C rank in staves when promoted, and has a fast support with Raven. Priscilla or Serra is also a good choice.

Resistance becomes a lot more important of a stat in HHM, so I'd consider using more units with good resistance, such as Florina and Fiora over Heath. As a bonus, they have a super fast support with each other. Heath joins pretty late and he's hard to train in the first few chapters he's in because they're filled with archers and mages. However, I've never really used Heath on HHM so don't take my word on how good he is .

I find that the Lords are pretty good units in HHM if you're not going for rankings, in part due to the fact that deployment slots are so limited already, and also because of their good support list. You might want to consider giving the Angelic Robe from LHM to Lyn though.

I would recommend using Matthew only up to Chapter 20, Dragon's Gate, and then dropping him in favour of Legault. Legault gets HHM bonuses and is a better combatant in a tight spot. Make sure to steal the Silver Card in 19x with Matthew though, it'll be really helpful.

Edited September 1, 2010 by icey

[Raven]

I don't see Raven in your list. That's what's wrong with it.

[Nic]

Actual Party in C31X (HNM):

Unit   Level HP|STR|SKL|SPD|LUK|DEF|RES|Support
Hector 3.53 42|21|16|16|7|19|12 A Oswin B Florina
Eliwood 6.88 40|15|16|18|22|13|12 A Lowen B Ninian
Lyndis 11.69 39|19|27|22|22|9|12 A Rath B Florina
Canas 18.52 47|27|24|21|15|19|21 A ??? B Pent
Louise 14.50 32|16|18|21|21|11|15 A Pent B Hawkeye
Hawkeye 20.00 60|28|22|17|15|15|12 A Ninian B Louise
Priscilla 14.36 22|12|12|11|13|4|12 C Heath
Guy 10.83 47|18|24|26|16|13|7 A Matthew B Rath
Pent 17.65 39|25|24|17|18|15|20 A Louise B Canas
Oswin 6.41 47|18|13|15|11|22|10 A Hector C Matthew
Florina 15.99 42|22|25|27|22|14|17 B Lyndis B Hector
Heath 14.31 53|26|23|23|14|16|8 C Priscilla
Rath 8.63 43|18|18|20|10|13|11 A Lyndis B Guy
Matthew 18.71 35|6|10|20|10|6|3 A Guy C Oswin
Lowen 3.53 45|16|13|15|11|12|6 A Eliwood B ???

I didnt include Ninian, be cause in the next chapter appears Nils.

@Balcerzak: A well equpped unit without supports can be in HHM?, i could try it.

@Mekkah: I like paladins, but i only tried with Kent, and in this play i wanted to try with Lowen, he is okay, but i think i will not use him in HHM. Canas and Pent were good, but maybe the RNG in HHM screw over this duo. I tought Rath was a good unit... that was a great dissapointment. I never Promoted Priscilla, i dont know if i should Barrier abuse to make her to level 20 and then promote her. I liked Heath, he is a full offensive character. Matthew is a good unit, but i think the RNG screwed a lot in this run.

@Integrity: thanks for the explanation =). And Louise and Geitz could do a great work.

@Icey: Have I to choose a team of only 10 characters?, I could reconsider about some units with low RES, any other suggestion? (You said Florina, Fiora,Priscilla,Lucius and Serra)

@Raven Vs Raven: I already used Raven, he is a great warrior, but... i wanted to use others characters, like more Axe users ( Be cause i like axes >=D )

EDIT: Also, im in the chapter of getting supplies, What should i buy for the team?

Thanks for the replys.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Nico~

[Raven]

I see. Although, in Raven's defense, he can use axes. If he mains them as soon as he promotes, he will be able to use Basilikos by the time the Final Chapter comes around.

[Nic]

I see. Although, in Raven's defense, he can use axes. If he mains them as soon as he promotes, he will be able to use Basilikos by the time the Final Chapter comes around.

Yes, i know and i did that already. Maybe i just use him again.

[Raven]

Yes, i know and i did that already. Maybe i just use him again.

Indeed. You could get rid of 5 units from your list and replace them with Raven, you'd still do awesomely well. Maybe 10 units, even. Maybe.

[Just call me AL]

I'm just gonna go ahead and echo the "drop Rath" notion. Also, if the supports you listed are the ones you usually use, I'd recommend changing it up a bit. Most of them I wouldn't say are bad per se, but there are others you might want to drop to help with your performance. For example, since you might be considering dropping Rath already, what's naturally gonna follow is the fact that you're gonna wanna drop that Lyn/Rath A support as well. It really isn't helpful on HHM, as 1.) You're keeping three slots open for a support that's between a grounded unit and a horse unit. 2.) Wind X Dark doesn't exactly give the best bonuses around. And 3.) Lyn will likely have better options open for those three support slots.

[Parrhesia]

See, the problem is you'll be using different units at different times. Like, using Dorcas until you get Geitz, then for chapters like, say, Sands of Time (Denning's one) tossing him a Hero Crest and a Steel Axe and using him to fill up spare recruitment slots. There, a perfectly servicable, disposable unit who filled a purpose completely.

[eclipse]

Ah, memories. . .I remember having to promote Priscilla and Serra, due to my play style.

This is one of the few times I'd recommend using Louise as something other than Pent's Improvement Unit. She can Longbow things, and she's also got decent Res (which is really important during certain irritating chapters).

[Parrhesia]

Ah, memories. . .I remember having to promote Priscilla and Serra, due to my play style.

This is one of the few times I'd recommend using Louise as something other than Pent's Improvement Unit. She can Longbow things, and she's also got decent Res (which is really important during certain irritating chapters).

Farina, Hawkeye and Louise are all really good at playing Stick the Mage.

[eclipse]

D'oh, forgot Hawkeye! He also supports the duo of Pent and Louise, albeit slowly (and Louise isn't going to complain about the extra Attack).

Res isn't used only for mage-sticking. :)

[Nic]

I'm just gonna go ahead and echo the "drop Rath" notion. Also, if the supports you listed are the ones you usually use, I'd recommend changing it up a bit. Most of them I wouldn't say are bad per se, but there are others you might want to drop to help with your performance. For example, since you might be considering dropping Rath already, what's naturally gonna follow is the fact that you're gonna wanna drop that Lyn/Rath A support as well. It really isn't helpful on HHM, as 1.) You're keeping three slots open for a support that's between a grounded unit and a horse unit. 2.) Wind X Dark doesn't exactly give the best bonuses around. And 3.) Lyn will likely have better options open for those three support slots.

Okay, so should i see the bonus between units to maximize it?

See, the problem is you'll be using different units at different times. Like, using Dorcas until you get Geitz, then for chapters like, say, Sands of Time (Denning's one) tossing him a Hero Crest and a Steel Axe and using him to fill up spare recruitment slots. There, a perfectly servicable, disposable unit who filled a purpose completely.

I should use some units, so i could at least finish the chapters, then i dump them.

Ah, memories. . .I remember having to promote Priscilla and Serra, due to my play style.

This is one of the few times I'd recommend using Louise as something other than Pent's Improvement Unit.  She can Longbow things, and she's also got decent Res (which is really important during certain irritating chapters).

I like playing with Louise, Priscilla is okay, and i dont used a lot Serra, but i think i should spam a lot of Staves to level them =|.

Here is a list with characters that are will use:

Hector
Lyndis
Eliwood
Canas
Pent
Louise

The suggestions are:

Serra
Priscilla
Lucius
Raven
Hawkeye
Florina
Fiora
Farina

I will see the affinity bonuses right now.

[Raven]

Raven x Priscilla.

[Just call me AL]

Bonuses are part of the equation, there is also movement range and availability to consider. Mounted unit X ground unit pairs are hard to use effectively because of this, so they aren't usually suggested unless if they join early enough and are fast enough. A good example of ground unit X mounted unit pairs that joins early enough and is fast enough is Lyn/Florina which has a 2 turn C support. The only mounted units exempted from this are Troubadours/Valkyries however, due to their main purpose, which is healing. A pair like Raven X Priscilla, while having fail bonuses, is good to make due to their availability and support speed. Conversely, a pair like Hector/Florina (which by the way has average/mediocre support speed), despite having rather decent bonuses, is not even recommended at all due to the fact that having them stay next to each other will be difficult to do efficiently, and they'll likely never be in range often enough to make the bonuses work.

Edited September 3, 2010 by LittleAl

[Nic]

Raven x Priscilla.

Good pair.

Bonuses are part of the equation, there is also movement range and availability to consider. Mounted unit X ground unit pairs are hard to use effectively because of this, so they aren't usually suggested unless if they join early enough and are fast enough. A good example of ground unit X mounted unit pairs that joins early enough and is fast enough is Lyn/Florina which has a 2 turn C support. The only mounted units exempted from this are Troubadours/Valkyries however, due to their main purpose, which is healing. A pair like Raven X Priscilla, while having fail bonuses, is good to make due to their availability and support speed. Conversely, a pair like Hector/Florina (which by the way has average/mediocre support speed), despite having rather decent bonuses, is not even recommended at all due to the fact that having them stay next to each other will be difficult to do efficiently, and they'll likely never be in range often enough to make the bonuses work.

You are right, i should think more in what type of unit, the availability, and the support speed...

Im looking the Support page of Serenes, and i think i have something:

Lyndis A Kent B Florina
 Kent  A Lyndis B Fiora 
Florina A Fiora B Lyndis
Fiora A Florina B Kent
[/Code]

Here are four units, a "Lyn" team, there are six slots left, but i didnt count Eliwood and Hector, so it will be 4 Slots left =/.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Nico~

[Nic]

I decided to drop Louise, Pent and Hawkeye, be cause i needed to focus in a more solid team of only ten units.

Here is the team:

Name -  A  -  B  -  B+
Eliwood - Hector - Lyn
Hector - Eliwood - Serra
Lyn - Kent - Eliwood
Kent - Lyn - Sain
Sain - Serra - Kent
Serra - Sain - Hector
Priscilla - --- - Raven - Lucius
Lucius - Raven - Priscilla
Raven - Lucius - Priscilla
[/Code]

Im used this team once, but i used Erk, Fiora and in the team, didnt use Sain.

Im wanting to go through the chapters of Kishuna, so maybe i should add supports for Ninian?

I thank you for helping.

[dondon151]

Efficiency and supports shouldn't be two words that fit in the same post. You'll have to pick one or the other in 98% of cases.