Fergus is better than Othin!

[Mekkah]

The other day I was in the shower and I realized this truth. Usually, Othin is hailed as the second coming of Jesus, whereas Fergus, while generally regarded as a Top tier unit, sometimes does not even reach 2nd place. How is this possible? Let's consider the following factors.

1. Availability

Othin is available in the chapters 1, 2, 2x, and 3. Fergus is available in the chapters 4, 4x, 5, 6, 7. After this, both are available. Although Fergus will likely be unavailable for Ch8 due to fatigue, Othin spends Ch1 getting his Pugi, so Fergus is already edging out here. However, Othin's chapters reek of self-improvement, where most of the work in efficiency play throughs is done by high movement units such as Fin and Eyvel. He can kill enemies on his own quite fine, sure, but he won't have much of an impact on turn count here. Meanwhile Fergus is extremely clutch in the vast majority of these other maps. The next-best person on the team is Brighton, and that's thanks to Wrath. Brighton does not double as much, occasionally misses his Wrath hit, and cannot attack from range like Fergus can with Eyvel's Fire Sword, nor can he guarantee a kill on a dangerous enemy like Fergus can with the Brave Sword. At the risk of sounding like someone who needs to be told that PEMN, Fergus is always my MVP in manster with the next best guy being obviously worse. Othin, while good, is overshadowed during his earlygame period.

2. The numbers

It isn't a very farfetched thought that Fergus and Othin will only fail to kill an enemy if it's a boss or if they are unlucky, especially once they are directly competing against each other. Fergus has 35% crit on his second attack at base, which grows by 5% every time he gets Skl (and he has a 45% growth there, plus there's a 30% scroll). Othin has Wrath and an impressive 3 PCC himself, so on enemy phase at the very least, he matches Fergus. For the time their PCC alone cannot guarantee a critical hit, though, Fergus has much more options. His Karin support is more practical than the Tanya support for various reasons:

- If Karin is attacked on enemy phase, she counters for some damage, while Tanya does not

- Outdoors, Karin can be placed anywhere you want, generally out of range, whereas Tanya often needs chokepoints to accomplish this

- Karin has reasons to be fielded after her forced period, whereas Tanya really does not

Of course, Karin often has tasks to do that might cause her to be away, though most of that is after Fergus has reached killer status.

Othin can use the Pugi to guarantee his kills, of course. But to counter that, there's two Killing Edges and a large supply of Rapiers that Fergus can use to do the same.

I will freely admit Fergus has some competition for special weapons whereas Pugi is personal, and in addition Pugi has 1-2 range where Fergus would need the special magic swords. Overall, I do not think this is a great deal. If you really need an 1-2 range killer at a point of the map, the goods are there for both of them.

3. The mount

FE5 might be one of the few games where having a horse does not automatically give you the win in a comparison, along with the other dismounting games and FE10. I'm pretty sure having a horse is still better than not having one, though. For someone like Brighton or Fin, it's really annoying since they lose their primary weapon and can't use great swords indoors. Fergus doesn't have this problem, however. His movement is only 1 less than Othin's while indoors, but while outdoors he gets to make use of 2 more movement as well as moving after everything, even attacking. His capturing edge is also greater outdoors than Othin's build lead indoors. And there's the rare move again music note that Fergus gets 5% of the time, compared to Othin's 0%.

Overall, I am mostly seeing minor advantages for Othin, compensated by major advantages for Fergus.

Whew.

[Ansem]

I thought this was a given fact...

[Life]

The other day I was in the shower

I stopped right here.

You think about FE in the shower?

[Mekkah]

You see, when I think about the shower while playing Fire Emblem, I know I should take a shower. Therefore, Fire Emblem is often on my mind when I'm in the shower.

[dondon151]

Othin is a better boss killer with Warp!

(but I think Asvel is the best)

Edited January 26, 2011 by dondon151

[Esaka]

You're all WRONG.

Fin is obviously the BEST. The ABSOLUTE BEST. THE TRUEST BEST. He's Fergus but with a Lance of pwnage that represents his own pwnage. He's so good, enemies gladly jump to Fin to get captured or killed, when Leaf wants Fin to help too much, he goes "**** off", he doesn't get tired like everyone else, he just doesn't want to be compared to those around his level of awesomeness.

Fin is like Marcus from an alternate dimension, yes he's that good... no actually I'm wrong. Fin is better then Marcus. Marcus strives to be Fin, but he knows that'll he'll never be as good as the true Lance knight.

Now I know what you're thinking, "if he's so good why does he pray when he's about to die?"

That answer is wrong, GOD PRAYS that Fin doesn't die since he KNOWS what's going to happen when that happens, see he fears Fin. Not surprising though right? I fear Fin, you fear Fin, WE FEAR FIN.

Want even more proof Fin is awesome? HE LIVES, all is said with that. That alone proves his Gaarness...

Alright, maybe I'm trolling a bit with this Fin thing, but honestly... Fin is the best character in the game, amazing availibility, amazing combat, amazing capturing, amazing utility, etc.

Edited January 26, 2011 by 3-13Archer

[Anouleth]

The other day I was in the shower and I realized this truth.

I think about Fergus and Othin in the shower as well.

[Former Guest]

Othin is a better boss killer with Warp!

(but I think Asvel is the best)

Asvel has woeful durability even if you baby him and favor him with certain scrolls. And unreliable critical. Other sages can fill in for him about as well or better.

[Silvercrow]

Graphcalibur is an unreliable critical?

(assuming that's what dondon was referring to)

[dondon151]

Asvel has woeful durability even if you baby him and favor him with certain scrolls. And unreliable critical. Other sages can fill in for him about as well or better.

Asvel, with 40 crit on Grafcalibur, and 3 PCC, will always hit + crit in a round of combat. So that's, when promoted, at least 22 atk and 44 atk hitting mag.

And by best I meant best boss killer.

[Galenforcer]

You're all WRONG.

Fin is obviously the BEST. The ABSOLUTE BEST. THE TRUEST BEST. He's Fergus but with a Lance of pwnage that represents his own pwnage. He's so good, enemies gladly jump to Fin to get captured or killed, when Leaf wants Fin to help too much, he goes "**** off", he doesn't get tired like everyone else, he just doesn't want to be compared to those around his level of awesomeness.

Fin is like Marcus from an alternate dimension, yes he's that good... no actually I'm wrong. Fin is better then Marcus. Marcus strives to be Fin, but he knows that'll he'll never be as good as the true Lance knight.

Now I know what you're thinking, "if he's so good why does he pray when he's about to die?"

That answer is wrong, GOD PRAYS that Fin doesn't die since he KNOWS what's going to happen when that happens, see he fears Fin. Not surprising though right? I fear Fin, you fear Fin, WE FEAR FIN.

Want even more proof Fin is awesome? HE LIVES, all is said with that. That alone proves his Gaarness...

Alright, maybe I'm trolling a bit with this Fin thing, but honestly... Fin is the best character in the game, amazing availibility, amazing combat, amazing capturing, amazing utility, etc.

Fin is mediocre indoors.

[Esaka]

I will admit he isn't amazing on indoor chapters, but calling him mediocre is a bit far. His high base sword rank will let him keep up easily. Seeing as the only other unit with a decent sword rank is Fergus it's safe to say they're about even. I would argue Fin is better for the simple fact he has an authority star. But what is helping Fin as mentioned before is his outdoor chapters with his personal weapon. +10 luck to help prayer, plus doubling no matter what? Easy combat and captures, it's needless to say it's probibly going to be a weapon you'll use the aum staff on, since it is that good.

[Junkhead]

Fin is the best character in the game, amazing availibility, amazing combat, amazing capturing, amazing utility, etc.

Fin =/= Saphy

This should also help, for a reference:

Nobody cares if you're awesome with brave weapons because everybody and their mother is and having to rely on them in a game where it's so difficult to acquire simple weapons is awful

Okay, maybe I'm overdoing this a little. But really. REALLY. If people think I'm overdoing this and nobody reasonable is going to cop that argument and most people do understand basic rules of favoritism, I'll remove it, but I seriously lost a lot of faith in humanity over that nonsense.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Soul

[Mekkah]

His high base sword rank will let him keep up easily.

He can't use ranged swords unless he spends a LOT of time indoors. I have plenty of other sword using candidates to use indoors over Fin. Ones that can use ranged swords, and/or kill Armor Knights without using Rapier. Shiva, Fergus, Mareeta, Leaf, etc. Fin adds nothing to indoors except that authority star.

[Smiley Jim]

Alright, maybe I'm trolling a bit with this Fin thing, but honestly... Fin is the best character in the game, amazing availability, amazing combat, amazing capturing, amazing utility, etc.

Yeah right. Fin is only exceptional when you are fighting outdoors. Once indoors, he's no better than people like Shiva, Leaf, and Othin because of the lack of mount. Arguably, he's worse indoors, due to a D in swords. And he also doesn't have staff access like Safy or Linoan.

His high base sword rank will let him keep up easily.

Since when was a D(30) rank in swords high? Last time I checked, Fin needs to swing a sword 70 times just to gain the ability to use a ranged sword or an armorslayer. Whereas Fergus needs only 20 attacks to use the same weapon, and Shiva can use Fire swords/armorslayers at base level. So no, Fin's sword rank is not that high. Though there's worse out there(like Glade)

[Esaka]

Oh it's D, my mistake I recaleld it being C.

Well then, I digress. Indoor he's meh, but I'd still like to say he is still the best outdoor unit

[Rodykitty]

Fin begins with some WEXP so he can reasonably get C in a single pre-Manster chapter, but it is still better to have him stay as mounted during those chapters. The real downfall during indoor sequences is not weapon rank, but 1 less Mov indoors than other foot units. Since indoor chapters tend to have much tighter chokepoints, one point is all the difference when it comes to positioning units optimally so that every one can contribute.

As a whole, Fin vs. Fergus is like Halvan vs. Othin. One is better at player phase (capturing, etc), but the other excels at Enemy Phase, and Enemy Phase is more important due to the game's large enemy density.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Super FE3 Player

[Narga_Rocks]

This should also help, for a reference:

Nobody cares if you're awesome with brave weapons because everybody and their mother is and having to rely on them in a game where it's so difficult to acquire simple weapons is awful

Okay, maybe I'm overdoing this a little. But really. REALLY. If people think I'm overdoing this and nobody reasonable is going to cop that argument and most people do understand basic rules of favoritism, I'll remove it, but I seriously lost a lot of faith in humanity over that nonsense.

Except Fin's is a PRF rather than a weapon that anybody can use.

[Junkhead]

It's a still a Brave weapon, though. =0

And that wasn't even my point. I was pointing out that Saphy was better by showing she had her own tier and that she shaves lots of more turns once she gets the Warp staff. :(

[Narga_Rocks]

It's a still a Brave weapon, though. =0

And that wasn't even my point. I was pointing out that Saphy was better by showing she had her own tier and that she shaves lots of more turns once she gets the Warp staff. :(

Also her repair staff plays a big part in that. Others get A staves, as well.

Anyway, the post you quoted was in relation to weapons that aren't PRFs. Things that anybody can use. Whatever reason you may have had for quoting it, it seemed logical to assume you were attempting to make the same point that bblade was making. Which doesn't apply to Fin.

[RNG Princess]

Glade&Selphina beat all those fools

I haven't beaten Thracia but I'm leaning towards Fergus > Othin > Fin. From what I recall Fin sucks indoors, although he doesn't die he does not double iirc. Othin is the best indoors, and Fergus is ok indoors but the best outdoors. Karin support also makes him more of a beast.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Former Guest]

But Fin has very high base speed for his level, even dismounted and he doesn't take long to reach a C rank in swords, which is cool because killing edges are rather plentiful, easy to pluck off enemies later on........or you must be thinking of a character that trades base speed and growth for more HP and defense, like the two axe/great knights who are notably inconsistent at doubling brigands and even soldiers in the early maps.

Brigands are probably some of the faster enemies faced indoors or on foot for a lot of the game. Way later on before the trek to Lenster, they're still about as slow as they were during the game's first third and almost never exceed 4 AS, while warriors have about 8 to 10. If Fin can't double them dismounted, he's almost certainly rescued someone or been screwed something nasty in speed growth. And then there's the measly speed cap of 20 to consider: even speed demons who aren't cost speed by a thing in their inventory can run into offense issues as the final clash in Manster keeps drawing near without banking on criticals, Continue activations, weapons with a brave or other special effect (i.e. Wind sword). It's not at all limited to melee with normally sound speed like Fin.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Former Guest

[Rodykitty]

Unless the website is wrong or the game manually sets speed, Mountain Thieves and Pirates both have base 0 speed and low growth. Fergus is going to double for sure.

But yes, Fin is good at doubling.

[Don Draper]

.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Inactive Account 001

[Mekkah]

Amalda is an irrelevant character for combat comparisons to Fergus (and indirectly, Othin). She joins extremely late, meaning Fergus could make use of those swords pretty much all game long, rather than Amalda doing so for the tail end. And in addition, while her Mag beats his by around 10 points, Fergus has the capped 20 Spd to her 15, as well as a monstrous Strength lead that could be anywhere between 6 and 12 at this point. So Amalda will do more to people that attack her at range, but Fergus does far and far more to those that go up close. So Fergus wins versus 1-range and 1-2 rangers that have the choice to attack up close, while Amalda wins against...archers and 1-2 rangers that attack from afar. If she doubles, that is. Amalda should be spending most of her time healing rather than fighting.

Finding other people with the sword rank and enough magic to compete versus Fergus is difficult. Most physically oriented sword users aren't any better. Nanna has a personal sword she's much better off with. Misha uses lances while mounted, and shouldn't be used indoors. Maybe not even at all. Karin's Mag and Str are about equal at 20/1 or any equivalent level, but again, she uses lances half the time. And her sword rank isn't going to reach B.

So that leaves people who have about equal magic as competition for the magic swords. And luck has it that we also have many of those. Eyvel's Fire Sword should have at least 20-30 uses left after earlygame, you get another one from an Armor Knight in Ch10, Fred comes with a Thunder Sword, and you get a Wind Sword from Misha or from a random enemy around midgame.

And concerning Fergus's attacking power with these...keep in mind he will pretty much always crit on his second attack, versus enemies with usually virtually no Mag. And that Fire Sword has essentially 10 Mt at range. So a crit and a hit from Fergus is often around 30 damage. Haven't seen enemies survive that often.