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Would the series benefit by changing to a hex-based system?


Snowy_One
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Topic title. We all know and are highly familiar with the square-grid based system currently present in FE games. Would the series benefit by changing the familiar squares into a series of hexagons instead (as seen in Civ V)? My personal answer is yes. I believe that it would benefit greatly by changing. Firstly, it would allow for increased options for both the player and the enemy. More spaces too move, more openings, and more chances to employ strategy than with the current system. Also, it would increase the value of ranged attackers. Currently, if we have a choke point that is being blockaded by a defensive unit, only one ranged unit can stand behind him and can target only one square in front of the blocker. With hexes, it would be possible for two ranged units to stand behind a blocker and they would be capable of targeting two hexes in front of the blocker. A huge improvement.

Your thoughts?

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I've thought of this before, actually. I never really came to a conclusion. For one, hexes would be weird for indoor maps. Sure it works for Civ V's continents and islands, but a straight hallway seems harder. Octagon makes more sense to me, personally.

Didn't Berwick Saga have hexes?

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Octagon makes more sense to me, personally.

You can't tile octagons by themselves. If you tiled octagons with squares and gave each octagon and square a movement cost of 1, the end result is the same as a square tile grid.

Edited by dondon151
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Personally, I think switching to a hexagon grid would be a horrible idea. I've completed Berwick Saga twice, and while it is a good game, that grid just makes movement more complicated than it needs to be. Honestly, I think one of the reasons Fire Emblem is still going strong after all these years is because it has kept the same basic mechanics all series long ("If it isn't broken, don't fix it"). I've said it before, but the Langrisser series is a great example of messing with mechanics and then watching the series go downhill. :(

(Not saying it couldn't work, by the way. Just saying I wouldn't like the change at all.)

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Watching a couple videos from the Berwick Saga, the square-grid system just looks much simpler and to the point than a hex-based system. Maybe if the had movement ranges for the enemies (I dunno if they do in Berwick) like in FE10-12, then I would probably be apathetic about it. Then again, if it ain't broke don't bother fixing it.

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While it'd be in interesting change, you would also have to change a lot of the core game mechanics, essentially giving you a completely different game.

Edited by Saloma
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On the other hand, ranged users would at least appear more dangerous, with their range "increased" to compensate for the extra sides. Like in the GameBoy Wars, the hex grid seems a tad bit more realistic, but I never had fun with it in those games either--it felt awkward.

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I don't think that FE would work as well with a hex-grid system, either. It would definitely mess up ranged units. Plus, squares are easier to deal with on lower-res screens like that of the DS. And Nintendo could take all of the development staff who'd be in charge of updating the control scheme and put their effort into LOCALIZING FE3DS! angry.gif

Of course, they're all too busy worrying about the 3DS, I bet.

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While hex-grids might seem more realistic in some scenarios (like the increased productivity of ranged attackers), they also have the downside that most structures and such naturally have right angles in them. (Which basically just says that they don't work for buildings.) What might work better might be a radius-based or free-movement movement system (a la Breath of Fire V, Valkyria Chronicles, Sakura Wars (3, 4, 5), etc.). Though, then the game would seem less Fire Emblem, I suppose...

EDIT -

And Nintendo could take all of the development staff who'd be in charge of updating the control scheme and put their effort into LOCALIZING FE3DS!

Completely different teams. IS is based in Japan, while NoA handles the localization. There's absolutely no overlap.

EDIT2 - Remembered something I was going to mention about the hex-grid system. If IS decided to be wildly different and produce a Fire Emblem title that was in some kind of underdeveloped nation/world with lots of open battlefields (think pre-colonized America, maybe?), then the hex-grid system might work nicely.

Edited by Lord Glenn
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EDIT2 - Remembered something I was going to mention about the hex-grid system. If IS decided to be wildly different and produce a Fire Emblem title that was in some kind of underdeveloped nation/world with lots of open battlefields (think pre-colonized America, maybe?), then the hex-grid system might work nicely.

Most major battles of medieval Europe took place on open battlefields, right? I don't see why they'd even need to change the setting.

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Most major battles of medieval Europe took place on open battlefields, right? I don't see why they'd even need to change the setting.

But not in FE games. Only a few maps are completely open. Most have varied terrain, like water and forests, and some maps are even indoors.

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gotta get in line with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd.

Breath of Fire Dragon quarter is what I'll site. BoF has long been one of my favorite series, and dragon quarter is the only RPG game that I've bought and never finished.

Don't mess with a good thing.

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What if the hex grid was implemented with proper 3D models? 2D hex just seems bulky and awkward, but yet, it doesn't seem so out of place when the perspective can be toggled around six axes--or when the camera isn't essentially locked to an over-head view completely.

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Hex-grids and 3-D map space would likely work much better than in 2-D (though, that's only because of the camera as you mentioned, since they're fundamentally identical), but I think you'd still run into issues with buildings and such, because of all of the right angles. In order for a building to work with hex-grids, I'd wager that one would almost need to map out the grid of tiles first and then create the map around it (think of Yggdra Union's map structure, maybe). I still think that something like a free-movement system where you either have a radius to move around in or some kind of counter that keeps track of how far you can move on the map (again, see Valkyria Chronicles) might be the best way to change up the series. (At the very least, it changes how one might think about strategy, since some tactical formations that work with square grids would become invalid.)

Edited by Lord Glenn
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The square grid has some advantages. The hex grid has some advantages. I just feel that the advantages offered by the hex-grid outweigh those offered by the square grid system if done properly.

Could you explain the advantages of a hex system? A square-grid setup seems to carry the following benefits compared to the alternative:

-Easier to visualize attack ranges

-Easier to map out strategies several turns in advance

What does the hex system offer?

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