SchoolLoop, good idea or no?

Nestling · March 14, 2011

ITT: Nestling makes a Serious Discussion thread.

Most of you probably don't know what school loop is, so I'll explain it to you.

SchoolLoop is a program that schools can use similar to EasyGradePro or Aries. Teachers can input grades, edit grading curves, and be cool. With SchoolLoop, grades now can become availible to students and parents! Students and parents who sign up under the student's name can get an e-mail with daily grades, as well as homework assignments. School Loop also contains a full schedule of all of your teacher's homework/events that have been posted, as well as school-wide events. Each teacher has a page (For a biography about themselves, and stuff like that) as well as pages for each of thier classes. Teachers can have students get online documents from home instead of having teachers print out copies.

We've had discussions about this before at our school, and I've gathered this information.

People who support believe:

School Loop will be a great way to motivate people.

School Loop can help students find out when their grade is dropping.

Parents can now see grades, instead of asking for grade checks every week.

The student can no longer say "Well, I didn't know my grade went so low!"

Students will have a source to look at if they forget to write down homework.

Teachers can be easily contacted, instead of having to remember e-mails.

The schedule can help busy students see their free days, as well as learn about school-wide events.

Documents can be seen online, so the school can save paper.

Students can see what assignments they have missed or did poorly on, to see why their grade is the way it is.

People who do not support believe:

School Loop causes stress on teacher to keep grades updated.

School Loop will stress out students to do well, which can have the ooposite effect.

Students can be punished for grades that are incorrect.

Students without a computer are extremely hindered.

Parents can now annoy teachers easier than ever.

The transition is too rough (In our school, we changed mid-semester, so this point may be moot later.)

It affects the confidentility of grades.

Studens can just opt not to recieve e-mails, ruining the entire purpose.

My stand: I'm a supporter of school loop. Even though the transition currently is rough (A class where I'm getting a B in currently shows an F.), it is very useful, as i'm the unorganized guy who often forgets the homwork, or forgets when events are, so the calender can help me. It halso helps the school save funds, as informational papers (such as project guidines) can be printed from a teacher's website, insttead of from the school's printer. My grades have a tendency to drop, and I've been caught in a few situations wheere I have to miracle my ass up to a C, so I'll be able to see how low they drop. Even though I like school loop very much, I agree with the point that students without a computer will be incredibly hindered. Especially with the economy, many people cn't afford a computer. One can say "just ask a friend", but the friend will eventually get annoyed that the person without a computer is at their house every day, accessing their personal computer, and maybe accidentally seeing something that the owner of the computer wanted to keep secret. Even with that, I am still an avid supporter of School Loop >w<~

ITT: Discuss. . .

Galenforcer · March 14, 2011

Wow, never expected a topic about SchoolLoop.

Used it before just because I'm forced to. It didn't mean I hated it or liked it, but the grades are kind of a tack on to me since I never check grades. It's useful sometimes, depending if my teachers actually update what we have to do.

Overall, I'm a laid back student, so those features don't stress me out. It's okay.

Joerachi · March 14, 2011

I agree with this system for the most part. I mean, there might not be a need for printers with this system period. Nowadays, everyone and their mother owns some kind of flash drive, or at least an E-mail address. And a school system isn't that inconsiderate with students who don't have computers. I mean there could be some kind of alternative for them, like have a special request for a printed out worksheet, or go to the computer lab or something and do it there. But that might not always be the option for lazy students, but whatever.

eclipse · March 14, 2011

I'm on the other end. From what I've seen, it's very, VERY helpful. It holds teachers accountable, and parents can no longer whine about "not knowing their child's grades". I'll address those cons, and I'll try to keep my temper in check. . .

School Loop causes stress on teacher to keep grades updated. - It's the teacher's job to know how their students are doing. If a parent calls mid-semester and asks for grades, do teachers respond with, "No, I don't want to calculate your child's grade, because it will give me stress"?

School Loop will stress out students to do well, which can have the ooposite effect. - In the words of someone far wiser than me. . ."Deal with it." Those who care about grades will most likely do something about it. Those who don't care won't be stressed out.

Students can be punished for grades that are incorrect. - If the grades are incorrect, parents should have the right to see grades for individual assignments, and all the calculations behind them. I don't think having SchoolLoop will change this.

Students without a computer are extremely hindered. - This might be true if your school didn't have computers (and possibly printers) for student use available.

Parents can now annoy teachers easier than ever. - WHAT? Annoying parents will be annoying, SchoolLoop or not.

The transition is too rough (In our school, we changed mid-semester, so this point may be moot later.) - I agree with this one. Kick it off beginning next school year.

It affects the confidentility of grades. - This might be true if the system showed everyone's grades. . .but I doubt that.

Studens can just opt not to recieve e-mails, ruining the entire purpose. - Can the e-mails be redirected/copied to a parent's e-mail? As long as one party cares (whether it be parent or student), SchoolLoop will be useful.

Phoenix Wright · March 22, 2011

I don't like how the American education system is ran at all, so naturally I would oppose something that furthers my disgust for the system.

eclipse · March 22, 2011

I don't like how the American education system is ran at all, so naturally I would oppose something that furthers my disgust for the system.

Huh? Why?

Phoenix Wright · March 23, 2011

Huh? Why?

In my opinion, at least in my state (although I'm sure it's just as bad or worse everywhere else, though I should really look into it), grade schoolers are pretty much taught bullshit, and middle school is also completely pointless (one year prepping for high school seems good enough to me). High school is a disaster. The "system" that we have is unusually good at making students unmotivated assholes, including myself. Only an handful of students nationwide take education seriously, and in point of fact it's not really the education that's taken seriously, rather, it's obtaining some stupid letter that tells a student how well they did based upon their own actions. In my opinion, our education system doesn't truly educate efficiently enough at all. I'd personally go as far as to say that our system really doesn't even educate...except for mathematics, depending on the teacher.

I don't agree with the fact that we MUST take certain classes in order to go to college, in my state it's known as the A-G requirements. I mean, I'm not sure why it is required to take a year of a practical art, such as "Woodshop," or a fine art, such as "Ceramics," in order to apply for any public university in my state. I also don't see the connections with learning a foreign language just to apply. I especially don't see why someone who wants to major in history is required to take a mathematics or even a science course (though science is probably pushing it) in high school. I think a person should be able to choose what they want, and have an excellent teacher to teach the students; no letters, numbers, class rankings, or any of that other bullshit is necessary, just give the education needed to carry out excellence in a topic a student is interested in. This way, students are motivated.

People, if interested in subjects beyond their passion, should do it all independently. That way, people learn on their own terms, whether through the internet or physical books.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Phoenix Wright

Inactive Account · March 23, 2011

Er... This topic is not about the pros and cons of the American school system as a whole. It's about the pros and cons of a particular tool.

Personally, I think online grading systems in general are ridiculously useful. They get grades out promptly and keep them all in one place where students can easily access them. Putting pressure on teachers to get grades done isn't really a con; teachers need to be prompt about getting grades out anyway. If a student doesn't have Internet access at home, it would be easy enough for the teacher to give them printouts instead. Confidentiality is not an issue; I've never seen one that listed grades for anyone other than the student accessing it, apart from averages.

Phoenix Wright · March 23, 2011

I don't like how the American education system is ran at all, so naturally I would oppose something that furthers my disgust for the system.

Er... This topic is not about the pros and cons of the American school system as a whole. It's about the pros and cons of a particular tool.

I think I somewhat answered that, don't you think? I disagree with this system as a whole, so something that is created for it furthers my disgust. Especially since it's focused on grades.

eclipse · March 23, 2011

In my opinion, at least in my state (although I'm sure it's just as bad or worse everywhere else, though I should really look into it), grade schoolers are pretty much taught bullshit, and middle school is also completely pointless (one year prepping for high school seems good enough to me). High school is a disaster. The "system" that we have is unusually good at making students unmotivated assholes, including myself. Only an handful of students nationwide take education seriously, and in point of fact it's not really the education that's taken seriously, rather, it's obtaining some stupid letter that tells a student how well they did based upon their own actions. In my opinion, our education system doesn't truly educate efficiently enough at all. I'd personally go as far as to say that our system really doesn't even educate...except for mathematics, depending on the teacher.

I don't agree with the fact that we MUST take certain classes in order to go to college, in my state it's known as the A-G requirements. I mean, I'm not sure why it is required to take a year of a practical art, such as "Woodshop," or a fine art, such as "Ceramics," in order to apply for any public university in my state. I also don't see the connections with learning a foreign language just to apply. I especially don't see why someone who wants to major in history is required to take a mathematics or even a science course (though science is probably pushing it) in high school. I think a person should be able to choose what they want, and have an excellent teacher to teach the students; no letters, numbers, class rankings, or any of that other bullshit is necessary, just give the education needed to carry out excellence in a topic a student is interested in. This way, students are motivated.

People, if interested in subjects beyond their passion, should do it all independently. That way, people learn on their own terms, whether through the internet or physical books.

Alright, seems like you really hate how things are run now. If you could do something about the educational system here, what would you do?

Even if I can see a ton of problems with the educational system as it is, getting grades to the parents really fast is a small step in the right direction.

Phoenix Wright · March 28, 2011

Alright, seems like you really hate how things are run now. If you could do something about the educational system here, what would you do?

Even if I can see a ton of problems with the educational system as it is, getting grades to the parents really fast is a small step in the right direction.

I was thinking of how I can respond to your question. I chose the easiest and laziest way:

Basically, throughout the younger years, it is up to the parents to teach basic mathematics, history, science, English/other, and whatever else. Then, when the child hits about fourteen, or fifteen, they can start school as a resource, rather than a mandatory "educational facility." School, by that time, would work as college does, where the student chooses what classes they would like to be in. Grades, rankings, et cetera would not exist. Basically, there would be tests to...test whether the student learned anything or not.

Prerequisites would work the same (Algebra II before pre-calculus, for example). College requirements (like the A-G that I mentioned in one of my posts here) would also not exist. Ideally, admission would rely on character and basic knowledge of the topic you'd want to major in, rather than the silly grades teachers have now. The SATs are fairly helpful for colleges, I suppose, so I guess those couldn't be done away with.

eclipse · March 28, 2011

I was thinking of how I can respond to your question. I chose the easiest and laziest way:

Basically, throughout the younger years, it is up to the parents to teach basic mathematics, history, science, English/other, and whatever else. Then, when the child hits about fourteen, or fifteen, they can start school as a resource, rather than a mandatory "educational facility." School, by that time, would work as college does, where the student chooses what classes they would like to be in. Grades, rankings, et cetera would not exist. Basically, there would be tests to...test whether the student learned anything or not.

Hey, no problem~!

This opens up a large can of economic worms, which I don't think is appropriate for this topic. I know of an elementary school that kinda teaches like this, and it seems to work.

Prerequisites would work the same (Algebra II before pre-calculus, for example). College requirements (like the A-G that I mentioned in one of my posts here) would also not exist. Ideally, admission would rely on character and basic knowledge of the topic you'd want to major in, rather than the silly grades teachers have now. The SATs are fairly helpful for colleges, I suppose, so I guess those couldn't be done away with.

. . .and that leaves room for plenty of subjective judgment, among other things.

The current system has a host of problems, many of which you're experiencing first-hand. However, it's what we're stuck with. I know you don't like grades, but do you think having them readily available is helpful?

Silvercrow · March 28, 2011

When this sort of technology first came out around my sophomore year of high school, I was pretty firmly opposed to it. I can't really explain why, typical sort of teenage angst thing where I was worried about PARENTAL INTERVENTION ON MY LIFE or whatever. Same stupid crap.

Really though, I've come to enjoy it. Lots of the objections voiced in the first post are pretty much hinging on the teachers (or students in some cases) being horrible, in which case they should not be teaching at all and it will show. My parents were fairly hands-off about it, so I used it to check my own grades and it was helpful for checking progress. In university I've found it especially helpful, although it's not mandatory for professors/instructors to use it, but I appreciate those that do because it makes it easier to see what I should be focusing on.

Phoenix Wright · March 29, 2011

However, it's what we're stuck with. I know you don't like grades, but do you think having them readily available is helpful?

Maybe not for long, provided I go anywhere with it, and I actually gain support. :P

I cannot deny that it can be helpful in some situations, and harmful in others.

Ragnell · March 31, 2011

My school uses Infinite Campus, which sounds similar to SchoolLoop. I personally love it, since it allows me to clear up any grade discrepancies (missing assignments, incorrect grades, etc.) quickly and easily. I also like that I can see my up-to-date grades at any time, since it lets me know where I stand in relation to my goals, and what - if anything - I need to improve on. I really don't see any down side to it, unless you're a kid who gets terrible grades and wants to hide them from your parents. In which case, I find it very hard to feel bad for you.

As for the teachers getting stressed, it's their job to get grades done quickly. If it stresses them out, then good. They need it. For people who evaluate others based on punctuality, they sure do dread due dates themselves, eh?

By the way, is SchoolLoop just a series of emails? Because Infinite Campus is a website posting current grades, so there's no way a student can opt out if their parents want to see their grades.

Phoenix Wright · April 2, 2011

My school uses Infinite Campus, which sounds similar to SchoolLoop. I personally love it, since it allows me to clear up any grade discrepancies (missing assignments, incorrect grades, etc.) quickly and easily. I also like that I can see my up-to-date grades at any time, since it lets me know where I stand in relation to my goals, and what - if anything - I need to improve on. I really don't see any down side to it, unless you're a kid who gets terrible grades and wants to hide them from your parents. In which case, I find it very hard to feel bad for you.

As for the teachers getting stressed, it's their job to get grades done quickly. If it stresses them out, then good. They need it. For people who evaluate others based on punctuality, they sure do dread due dates themselves, eh?

By the way, is SchoolLoop just a series of emails? Because Infinite Campus is a website posting current grades, so there's no way a student can opt out if their parents want to see their grades.

Infinite Campus is lame, too. That's what my school uses...

There are plenty of downsides:

Parents annoying the FUCK out of teachers ("When will grades get posted?" "Are grades posted yet?" "?hy haven't you been posting grades?")

Same thing, but from students

It can screw up, erasing all grades (like what happened to my teacher)

Teachers only update grades

Just to name a few.

_____ · April 2, 2011

Basically, throughout the younger years, it is up to the parents to teach basic mathematics, history, science, English/other, and whatever else. Then, when the child hits about fourteen, or fifteen, they can start school as a resource, rather than a mandatory "educational facility." School, by that time, would work as college does, where the student chooses what classes they would like to be in. Grades, rankings, et cetera would not exist. Basically, there would be tests to...test whether the student learned anything or not.

Good thing all of those parents all have the time and money for devoting their entire day to teaching their children with the teaching degrees they all have and all of the knowledge the parents surely have a firm grasp on in every subject from K to High School. Students will never need to have school as a center for social interaction nor an escape from home in troubled situations. Every home-schooled child in the world also knows exactly what classes he/she should take perfectly, and it surely won't be a scheduling nightmare.

Maybe if the world was absolutely perfect, your system might work, but if the world was perfect, we would be past the "school" stage of knowledge gathering, so it would be obsolete. Of course there are flaws in the current US school system, but what you've suggested is absolutely absurd.

Edit: And yes, I know this is off-topic.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Ninji

Nestling · April 2, 2011

Pretty much, to counter that, students should be well rounded in ALL core subjects. For instance, I plan on majoring in Music Performance on Tuba. Using your logic, my school time would be spent dedicating myself to music. I'd turn into an idiot because I only have an 8th grade comprehension of mathematics, history, english, and science. Pretty much, let me just explain the reasoning for all of the requirements for colleges.

English - Pretty much, this teaches writing skills, inlcuding enhancing vocabulary, and learning to analyze books and stuff. Pretty much, it's engaging the mind by having it look deeper than just the face value of something. You can look at it and find the true meaning and reason of something. Not just in books, but also in actual life. Also, there's teamworking skills and stuff by working in group projects. Also, it teaches you how to have a high level of reading. I were to go out into the ubisness world with a 8th grade reading level, I'd be screwed.

Math - Logical thinking and noticing patterns, pretty much. Using math is useful for almost any major. Even if I'm not using Calculus every day of my life, I'll still have to use math.

History - Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. It also gets you out of your shell of "AMEEEERIIIICCAAA~" and you can learn about other cultures in the world. Also, you can see the reasoning behind many things that currently affect the world, and see what happens when people screw up.

Science - This is the weakest point I have, as I've never really looked into why I learn science. We learn it pretty much because it's a huge influence on everyday life. You learn why stuff happens when you combine it with other stuff. You learn how the body works, and you'll know what's screwed up when people go "That's screwed up"

Foriegn Languages - This is also learning cultural perspectives. It allows you to communicate in the world, which is important in a capitalistic society.

Fine Arts - More or less, it's application skills. Many students can read stuff, they can write essays, and do a bunch of other stuff, but overall, some people will go through their lives without being skilled in applying stuff to fine arts. I'm a bit biased, as I'm majoring in a fine art, so I can't say too much, but fine arts pretty much give students the ability to work with their hands, or in actual movement, rather then just sitting in a classroom.

Also, most of this stuff is required because the world wants students to get an exposure of a plethora of subjects. For instance, I didn't plan my major to be in music until 2nd semester of freshman year. Now, I was an extremely ambitious person. Most students still are unsure of what they want to do well into upperclassman status. For instance, my brother made the descision to be an Engineer in his junior year of high school. Having that exposure to math and science made him change his life into doing what he was trult skilled at.

As much as I'd like to simply go "Yeah! Let's follow that! I'll just stay in music!", that will overall deteriorate the overall knowledge of the human mind. You'll have a large knowledge of what you want to major in (Which might change quite a few times in high school. My brother, before wanting to be an engineer, he wanted to be a graphic arts designer, and a coder.), but you'll lose knowledge as an overall being. You'll become ignorant not just in knowing that that 6.02 x 10^23 atoms is 1 mol, or Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492, but of overall skills as a person. You'll also become a drone of what you want to major in, instead of a well-rounded and educated human being.

There are some things I disagree with about the school system, but not to this extent .w.