RNG Princess Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) - Hard mode. - No transfers. - As usual, I'll allow Micaiah, Sothe and Ike to be free for all, in addition, I'll alow any Heron of your choice to be free for Endgame. - The only characters you can deploy are those you drafted, or those who are needed to recruit another character (can be any character). Also as always the recruiter characters can't be used. Forced units that you did not choose must not be used at all, and recruiter characters may not be used except for recruiting purposes lest the player incur a 3 turn penalty.. NO ferrying, shoving, visiting houses, getting items off the ground, meatshielding. - Certain chapters where you do not have a character, you pay a penalty for using a character that you do not have. The turn penalty is below. - BK is free on 1-9 and 1-E but if he gets boss kill in 1-E it turns into penalty. - You can move skills around freely. - BEXP use is allowed. Lords and drafted Characters During this draft, each participant (the order is predetermined but randomly decided) will be allowed to choose a single character per round out of the list to use during this playthrough, excluding the lords which everyone can use, and no one else may use them unless they pay a penalty based on their placement on the tier list. As each round progresses, the number of units remaining will decrease so make sure to grab any units you'll be wanting to use early because they are likely to be gone fairly quick. yes @ tradin and shoving Forced Character Penalties 1-P: Edward(3) Leo(2) 1-1: Edward/Nolan (3) Leo(2) 1-2: Edward/Nolan/Laura (3) Leo(2) 1-3: Nolan (3) Edward/Leo/Laura/Ilyana(2) 1-4: None* 1-5: Everyone is free except Volug (3) 1-6-1: Tauroneo(6) Volug(4) 1-6-2: Tauroneo(6) Volug(4) 1-7: Volug/Muarim/Tormod(4) Vika(3) 1-8: Nailah(6) Rafiel/Tormod/Muarim/Volug(4) Vika(3) 1-9: None* 1-E: Volug (4) 2-P : (3) for everyone. one non drafted character may be used free (Haar gets 1 turn penalty) 2-1 : Neph(3), Brom (2), Heather (1) 2-2 : Lucia (4) Lethe (2), Everyone else (3) 2-3 : Kieran/Geoffrey(3) 2-E : Elincia(5) Marcia/CRK(3), Astrid/Lethe (2) 3-P : Titania/Shinon/Oscar/Boyd/Mia(4) Gatrie/Rhys/Soren(3) Mist/Rolf(2) 3-1 : Gatrie/Titania/Shinon/Oscar/Boyd/Mia(4) Rhys/Mist/Soren(2) Rolf(1) 3-2 : None* 3-3 : You can deploy one undrafted 6 move unit to 3-3 without penalty. 3-4 : Ranulf(4) 3-5 : None* 3-6 : None* 3-7 : Janaff/Ulki(5) Ranulf(4) 3-8 : Ranulf(4) 3-9 : Geoffrey(3) 3-10 : Ranulf(4) 3-11 : Leanne(5) Ranulf(4) Sigrun/Tanith(3) 3-12 : Tauroneo (4) 3-13 : Tauroneo (5) 3-E : Ranulf/Sigrun(3) 4-P : Skrimir(4) Naesala(5) Sigrun/Sanaki(2) 4-1 : None* 4-2 : Tibarn (7) Elincia (3) 4-3 : Skrimir(4) Sigrun/Sanaki(3) 4-4 : Muarim/Tormod/Vika(3) 4-5 : Tibarn (7) Elincia (3) * The chapters with no penalties do NOT mean you can use anybody in that chapter. They just mean that no one besides Ike/Micaiah/Sothe are forced, and therefore the only people in play should be them and the people you drafted. Edited March 23, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 *Drafted Top tier units inherit a 8 turn Penalty(including Ike), except Haar he inherits a 12 turn penalty. *Ike, Sothe, and Micaiah are drafted for everyone but each of them inherits penalties, except Micaiah, according to their placing in the tier list. What's the point of them being free if they incur penalties? That doesn't even make sense, as the point of being drafted is that they don't get penalized. And if Haar has such a high penalty, he should probably just be banned entirely. Elincia-Draft Bonuses:*Everyone gets one utility use free (shove, find treasure, open chest, open door, meatshield only). Meatshielding is limited 1 turn or in CRK case 2 turns and its limited up to 2 uses per Part. Shoving/chests/treasure/doors are limited to 5 uses per part but theyre all combined. *Non drafted herons, each get two free chapters of utility before endgame, but 1 has to be in part 4. * Herons are free for endgame *Each non drafted healer has a free chapter of healing utility (Laura has 2) *Non-Drafted Low get 1 chapter free, and Bottom get 2. Lyre gets 3. *Drafted Low Mid characters give a 1-turn discount, Low-tier characters(including Vika) give a 3 turn discount, Bottom-tier give a 6 turn discount, and both Oliver and Lyre give a 10 turn discount. (all have to be deployed and used for combat/healing if drafted at least for 1 chapter). *Drafted Dragons cut upper mid and high tier unit's penalties in half, but have to be deployed and used. Adding to that Kurthnaga cuts upper mid, high and top tier unit penalties in half. I don't really agree with any of this. All it does is diminish the value of certain draftees (especially the Herons) and overpower the ones that are already great. With all of this it's hardly a "draft" run at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) What's the point of them being free if they incur penalties? That doesn't even make sense, as the point of being drafted is that they don't get penalized. And if Haar has such a high penalty, he should probably just be banned entirely. I don't really agree with any of this. All it does is diminish the value of certain draftees (especially the Herons) and overpower the ones that are already great. With all of this it's hardly a "draft" run at all. @ Bold OOps thats true ^^' these are just ideas ^_^ i'd love hearing ideas on what should be allowed and not. My basic idea is giving units of all tiers more equality. ^^' I'm probably doing it wrong ;;' Edited March 23, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Wow, Ninja'd. Edited March 23, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Why do Ike, Micaiah and Sothe have penalties if they're free? I scraped that ^^' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I scraped that ^^' I realized. By the time I had finished reading the OP and posted, the matter was resolved. I really need to learn to use 'Preview Post' more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 @ Bold OOps thats true ^^' these are just ideas ^_^ i'd love hearing ideas on what should be allowed and not. My basic idea is giving units of all tiers more equality. ^^' I'm probably doing it wrong ;;' Points for effort. The way a draft works doesn't really allow all units to be equal. In fact, I'd say that's part of the fun of it; strategically picking a better team than everyone else. But a lot of what you suggested actually goes against what you seem to want. For example: *Non-Drafted Low get 1 chapter free, and Bottom get 2. Lyre gets 3. Why would I draft Lyre if she's awful and can be used for free in 3 maps? You draft units so that you can use them and others can't, but with this a terrible draftee is made even worse by the fact that everyone can use her for a portion of time. except Haar he inherits a 12 turn penalty. Haar with a 2 turn penalty per map would be a top tier draftee. This is massive overkill. For every extra turn of penalty he gets it makes drafting him that much more desired (up to a point, of course, since Haar isn't like Edward or someone who practically has to be used), making the strong even stronger. I think you should start with looking at the list of forced penalties, which I do think could use some revising. I don't have time now, though, because I have a test in 5 minutes. And don't be discouraged by my criticism, I've tried looking into ways and creating ideas to improve drafts as well. If anything I'm happy you at least got the topic started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 A lot of this seems way too complicated, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) @RFOF ok i'll scrape it all it makes sense about the team thing but I did make edits on chapter penalties like 1-5. Shouldn't be too drastic right? and thanks ^_^ A lot of this seems way too complicated, as well. Edited March 23, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm back now and have a bit more. I'll alow any Heron of your choice to be free for Endgame. I don't agree with this. It's just unnecessary. The past shows that Herons already aren't top draftees, so there's no need to lower their value further. - BK is free on 1-9 and 1-E but if he gets boss kill in 1-E it turns into penalty. I don't think BK needs to be free for 1-E if he can be drafted. Even on 1-9 I could understand giving him a minor turn penalty, but that's not too big of a deal. yes @ tradin and shoving Maybe you already plan this, but I also think undrafted units Rescuing other undrafted units should be allowed for obvious reasons. 1-8: Nailah(6) Rafiel/Tormod/Muarim/Volug(4) Vika(3) I personally think Nailah's penalty could be reduced. She's a great draftee either way, often a first pick, and as previously mentioned, having penalties too high only makes the strong stronger. In all honesty, I think a static 3/4 turn penalty for all undrafted units ever could work just fine. Everyone is likely to be taking penalties regardless. There's no reason to make strong units stronger (again) by increasing their penalties, especially if your goal is greater balance. This will probably be the greatest step to weakening the stronger units, since the closer they get to free the less desirable they are to be drafted. 2-2 : Lucia (4) Lethe (2), Everyone else (3)2-E : Elincia(5) Marcia/CRK(3), Astrid/Lethe (2) Lethe is actually decently good in these maps. She's definitely better than Astrid. 3-P : Titania/Shinon/Oscar/Boyd/Mia(4) Gatrie/Rhys/Soren(3) Mist/Rolf(2)3-1 : Gatrie/Titania/Shinon/Oscar/Boyd/Mia(4) Rhys/Mist/Soren(2) Rolf(1) Why did Rolf suddenly get a lower penalty? This, again, is really just making the weak weaker. If anything, it's the weaker units whose penalties should be a bit higher, though they really need no more than 3. There aren't many ways to make weak draftees stronger by themselves. Theoretically the opposite of weakening strong units (decreasing their penalties) would work, suggesting you should increase their penalties, but whether Lyre's penalty is 2 or 12 she won't be drafted until the final round anyway. Weakening the strong units is a great start, but another good idea could be to combine draftees. So, say Astrid and Lyre will be drafted together as a single draft. Still not great, but obviously better than one alone. Expanding on that, though, I'd sooner pair units who may actually be able to work together, like making Meg and Fiona a single draft since they're both on the DB and both suck, but at least sucking together makes them suck a bit less. Lyre and Kyza could be another one. There's not much to give to Astrid, but perhaps her and Danved, since at least from my own experience he wasn't worth very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I always assumed the reasoning behind high penalties for units like Tibarn and Nailah were to discourage people who didn't draft them from using them to get lower turncounts anyway. If you have no fliers in the Hawk Army for example, using Tibarn to kill Izuka would still have a lower turncount than trudging through the swamp to chase him down, if he had a 3-4 turn penalty. Of course, this makes them go faster, but I'm not sure reducing the penalties is the way to approach this problem. Combining low-tier units could be worth a try, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I always assumed the reasoning behind high penalties for units like Tibarn and Nailah were to discourage people who didn't draft them from using them to get lower turncounts anyway. If you have no fliers in the Hawk Army for example, using Tibarn to kill Izuka would still have a lower turncount than trudging through the swamp to chase him down, if he had a 3-4 turn penalty. Of course, this makes them go faster, but I'm not sure reducing the penalties is the way to approach this problem. Combining low-tier units could be worth a try, though. There is still the fact that whoever drafts him gets to pull it off without the penalty. And considering there is a good number of fliers available then, I don't think that's too much of an issue. You could theoretically have a slightly higher penalty for places like that, but I think the current 7 is definitely too high. I'd say 5 at max, 4 preferably. In fact, a static 4 all around is probably what I'd go with. Doesn't every other game use 4 turns already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Or, an even better idea - scrap the idea of 'penalties' altogether in cases like Tibarn's. If you want to use Tibarn, then draft him. Otherwise, Tibarn's 'value' is just going to be avoiding an arbitrary penalty. (Obviously, you'd still have penalties in cases where otherwise, trying to complete the chapter without the characters would be impossible, like Edward in 1-P. But in the majority of cases, you just shouldn't be allowed to use undrafted units.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I don't suppose we can just have a casual draft? Where people just draft their favorite characters to play through the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hey, people don't always draft their favorite characters. 8) Let's just make this a casual HM draft like the one I made, with some variations in favor of you guys. Like RedFox said, allow rescuing between undrafted characters and such. Giving Haar penalties here in HM is pretty bad, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Or, an even better idea - scrap the idea of 'penalties' altogether in cases like Tibarn's. If you want to use Tibarn, then draft him. Otherwise, Tibarn's 'value' is just going to be avoiding an arbitrary penalty. (Obviously, you'd still have penalties in cases where otherwise, trying to complete the chapter without the characters would be impossible, like Edward in 1-P. But in the majority of cases, you just shouldn't be allowed to use undrafted units.) That's really no better. You're just giving him an infinite turn count penalty, since Tibarn getting attacked by mistake or something means the player needs to restart. You may think the turn count penalty is arbitrary, but it exists for a reason. The nature of part 4 and how drafts work make it especially important (small teams, etc.). No, that is not a "better" idea. Though I could see this being one of those instances where a penalty needs to be increased, probably to no higher than 5, because we shouldn't make it so that the likely fastest method for everyone will be to use Tibarn regardless of drafting, and anyone who didn't draft well enough to have capable units just deserves to have to eat the penalty. Alternatively, there may also be a way to split penalties up. Like if Tibarn enters combat, that's 4 turns, and if he Shoves, that's another 2 turns. Or something like every enemy he kills adds a turn (probably too much, but it's the idea). The only problem is that might get really complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Alternatively, there may also be a way to split penalties up. Like if Tibarn enters combat, that's 4 turns, and if he Shoves, that's another 2 turns. Or something like every enemy he kills adds a turn (probably too much, but it's the idea). The only problem is that might get really complicated. Perhaps a 1 turn penalty for each turn an undrafted unit does something (2 turns if 2 undrafted units do something, etc.)? Although some actions (like Tibarn assassinating Izuka for example, or rescue-dropping over an obstacle), deserve more than a 1 turn penalty, due to the amount of turns they save... Hmm... maybe not. Edited March 24, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think a static four turn penalty would be good for a draft. Ideas for FE10 drafts: .Maybe allow transfers but have a penalty for each unit transferred based on this draft tier list:Tier Like for example transferring a Top or High tier unit will give the player 4 turn penalty per Top/High character transferred. Proposed penalties .Top-High-4 turn .Upper middle-middle-3 turns .Lower middle-bottom 2 turns .Maybe allow chapters the person required to seize a spot be free on those maps? It should help those who either picked an unorthodox team or was unfortunate. (I guess this idea will work better for a casual draft) Proposed chapter changes .1-8: Allow one unit of choice to be chosen (Nailah, Volug, maybe Rafiel, are excluded from the free unit of choice) .2-1: Allow one of them to be chosen without penalty. (Too lenient?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 1-8: Allow one unit of choice to be chosen (Nailah, Volug, maybe Rafiel, are excluded from the free unit of choice) Tormod, the guy that 1RKO's most bandits at 1-2 range is awesome and totally worse than what Volug and Muarim can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I kind of wanted to make commanders (Elincia in 2-P, Geoffrey in 2-3 and 3-9, etc.) free in the chapters they're commander, but then I realized that that would greatly reduce their value as draftees. So I'm not sure what to do in that regard... Tormod, the guy that 1RKO's most bandits at 1-2 range is awesome and totally worse than what Volug and Muarim can do. Volug is a helper on the left side though, for what that's worth. Edited March 24, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Volug gets endangered by Mages that attack him at range. It's the only thing he kills, besides that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I don't get it how would more penalties make a character less valuable for a draft? Wouldn't giving units more penalties make give other characters higher chances to be draftedd? ^^' like for example how can we make a draft where drafting Meg would be more appealing? and drafting Haar would be less appealing? ^^' because scrubs are always left behind and Haar is always taken first. 030 Yes @ RFOF I could see that allowing rescue dropping would give certain people advantages (fliers, cavalry) what a great suggestion. Edited March 24, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 like for example how can we make a draft where drafting Meg would be more appealing? and drafting Haar would be less appealing? ^^' because scrubs are always left behind and Haar is always taken first. 030 How about giving characters like meg and fiona turn reduction bonuses, for example -2 turns from total turn counts for drafting fiona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 like for example how can we make a draft where drafting Meg would be more appealing? and drafting Haar would be less appealing? ^^' because scrubs are always left behind and Haar is always taken first. 030 Wouldn't that just reverse the order in which characters are drafted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 My Idea for a draft: - Easy Mode - Ike is banned, and may only leveled by means of BEXP - Haar is Banned, totally. - Meg, Fiona & Lyre are free for all. - Sothe & Micaiah are drafted. - SS Weapons are drafted 8D Easy mode for the test of it. 8D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.