The new FE10 draft tier list

[Junkhead]

Naggy's tier got somewhat abandoned. And now that we have three FE10 drafts going on, I would like to revive the Draft tier list with some rather big modifications modifications.

Here's the old one. I thank Naggy for bringing it up in the first place and organizing things out.

Here's my own version, based on the average NM FE10 Drafts with the goal of ending as quick as possible when regarding turncounts:

GAAR

Haar

Top

Titania

Sothe

High

Ike

Nolan

Jill

Edward

Volug

Zihark

Upper Middle

Oscar

Boyd

Nephenee

Mia

Gatrie

Soren

Micaiah

Ilyana

Aran

Marcia

Janaff

Ulki

Nailah

Tibarn

Naesala

Elincia

Shinon

Middle

Brom

Tanith

Randulf

Mordecai

Laura

Heather

Calill

Sigrun

Geoffrey

Nealuchi

Kieran

Makalov

Astrid

Danved

Lower Middle

Tauroneo

Rofl

Kyza

Meg

Lethe

Lyre

Skrimir

Reyson

Rafiel

Leanne

Caineghis

Giffca

Tormod

Lucia

Muarim

Black Knight

Low

Rhys

Renning

Leonardo

Fiona

Vika

Bastian

Stefan

Volke

Nasir

Ena

Gareth

Pelleas

Bottom

Mist

Kurthnaga

Lehran

Oliver

Complaints?

Edited February 23, 2012 by Soul

[Integrity]

I will complain loudly shortly.

EDIT: My notes:

Laura up once I have a good argument.

Pelleas WAY up.

Leanne > Sanaki, easily.

Edward seems a little low.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Integrity

[Zkirsche]

Lessee, Fiona shouldn't be a tier over Lyre. Similar availability, and with all that bexp, getting them good is the same as each other: easy.

Nealuchi is way too low, Lucia should not be a tier ahead of him.

And by God, Reyson is upper middle, at the very least. Vigoring units is even more awesome when trying to rush through chapters. He's also > rafiel due to better availability.

The hawks should be above Tibarn for also being quite godly except having more availability.

Rendulf should be in upper mid.

Rhys and Mist should be in the same tier (both have similar roles).

Soren should be in Mid. His lol durability and lolmov hurts him. I would even argue Jill for high.

Kieran and Geoffrey should probably be in the same tier (better 2-3 and 3-9 vs not existing in 3-11 and 4-1) (3-E is a joke).

Gatrie should be in upper mid thanks to mov.

Mia should be below Jill thanks to mov and a more comparable team.

I won't mind if you guys ask me for criteria of positionings so I could change some with good reasoning.

The premise for a draft list is flight > movement > availability > initial combat utility > prevention of penalties > need of resources (considering you're going to condense it into so few units, resources are non issues).

Edited January 28, 2011 by Cesc Fabregas

[Integrity]

Not necessarily true, Kirsche. F'example, flying is MUCH less important in RD considering the prevalence of Routs over Seizes and Arrives.

Still important, obviously, but not > all else.

EDIT: Sigrun a whole tier below Tanith seems dodgy to me. Thoughts?

EDIT2: Also, all Herons above Lucia.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Integrity

[Psych]

First off, why the hell are Ike, Micaiah, and Sothe on a list when they're free?

Second, go see Integrity's lovely argument of Laura in the old one and move her up plz. kthnxbai

[Zanarkin]

Boyd, should go down.

Shinon, Oscar, Naesala, Janaff and ulki up. I could also see Ilyana (due to availability and the fact its so easy to train people in NM) and Mordecai(BEXP) going up

[Integrity]

Mordecai, by my experiences, wasn't even Middle tier material. He didn't do shit before Skrimir showed up, and Skrimir would have outperformed him afterwards.

[Paperblade]

As others have said, free units shouldn't be tiered.

I have a list of things that stand out to me, I'm working on a project and have to wait like 2 minutes for my stuff to compile+run so if you want me to elaborate on any of them I will do so later.

Herons are too low. Below Volke? Volke does nothing. Like, seriously. You recruit him, he participates if you couldn't spare a flyer to go over and one round Izuka (and between Sages and Laguz owning the desert just as well, you should be able to have a flyer, especially as Tibbers and Elincia are forced in that route). Stefan is even worse since he can't participate in his recruiting chapter even if you want him to (loldesert) and is somehow also above Volke.

Mia > Neph is questionable, Neph reduces penalties in 2-1 and 2-2 and is better than Mia at 3-2 onward since Javelins > Wind Edges (plus Javs can be forged) and you can take Oscar's Short Spear if you need the extra might. 3-P is like a nonfactor anyway so it's Mia's 3-1 vs. liek everything else. Neph can also use some of the CRK's BEXP (or all if you don't have any drafted) which allows another GM to use the GM BEXP for easier part 3.

Shinon is too high I think. Monobows sucks, and even with Shade the AI is kind of dumb.

Naesala too high.

Laura too high.

Astrid is too high.

Rolf is too high.

Kyza is too low.

Renning is too high.

BK is too high, since last I checked he's free in 1-9. He does nothing, below Stefan at least.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Paperblade

[Zkirsche]

Not necessarily true, Kirsche. F'example, flying is MUCH less important in RD considering the prevalence of Routs over Seizes and Arrives.

Even in routs, flying lets you get to the far reaching places much faster.

Naesala too high.

Tibarn, too, I'd say.

As others have said, free units shouldn't be tiered.

Well, why not? Might as well discuss their contributions compared to the potential drafted units.

[RNG Princess]

I happen to think Astrid is too low ^^' imo she > Vika. I'm not experienced in drafts though ^^' and Sothe should be in the top tier too imo because he's free .

[Paperblade]

Well, why not? Might as well discuss their contributions compared to the potential drafted units.

You might as well tier green units.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Top

Haar

Ike

Why did you move Ike to Top again? I can compromise at just below Titania, but he gets passed quickly enough by upper mid GMs.

High

Sothe

Titania

Volug

Nolan

Zihark

Gatrie

Volug should not be this high. His statistics are great, but eventually his lack of 2-range and gauge totally blows.

Edward should probably be in this tier, though I'm kind of theory winging this. It should be easy to get him on par or close to Zihark by the time Zihark joins, and he saves 1-P and 1-1 penalties while still helping the other chapters run smoother. I'd put Edward next to Nolan, though above or below is a good question, and I'm feeling everyone would probably lean Nolan.

Gatrie's move definitely does not belong here.

Upper Middle

Mia

Jill

Edward

Nephenee

Tibarn

Boyd

Aran

Naesala

Ilyana

Micaiah

Oscar

Janaff

Ulki

Shinon

Elincia

Soren

Not sure Mia should be at the top of Upper Mid. This isn't HM where she has significant offensive leads over other GM.

Why did you move Neph over Oscar?

Naesala and maybe Tibarn don't belong in this tier. Compare Naesala to Ilyana if you will, and you'll find that just in their shared chapters, Ilyana wins due to existent 1-2 range, better durability due to Flare, and no crossbow weakness despite the move advantage.

Oscar > Boyd also, though not that intent on this one.

Shinon should drop. Range lock does not bode well for sparse unit speed runs.

Middle

Marcia

Mordecai

Tanith

Heather

Laura

Ranulf

Meg

Rolf

Tauroneo

Skrimir

Caineghis

Giffca

Muarim

Kieran

Geoffrey

Meg probably should not be this high. Would you pick her over Geoffrey/Brom/Sigrun etc?

Rolf too.

Cain/Giffca should drop. Due to the speed of endgame, I highly doubt they'll be able to save more turns than Geoffrey does in 2-3 and 3-9 alone.

Lower Middle

Danved

Brom

Sigrun

Black Knight

Tormod

Lucia

Calill

Rhys

Lethe

Makalov

Fiona

Renning

Bastian

Danved that much > than Makalov is iffy.

I agree that Sigrun probably shouldn't be a tier below Tanith.

Lucia could be higher, but I don't know where.

Calill should be in mid, she is very comparable to Marcia, and during part 4, Calill vs Marcia is like Ilyana vs Naesala.

Lethe could be higher.

Renning could be lower.

Low

Ena

Leonardo

Vika

Stefan

Volke

Rafiel

Reyson

Kyza

Mist

Sanaki

Leanne

Astrid

Nealuchi

Nasir

Gareth

Lyre

I agree that the herons shouldn't be this low.

Vika/Tormod/Muarim gaps should not be this large. We're talking, like, 2 chapters of difference and they all function fairly well in 1-8.

Mist should be bottom. She's like Lyre, but doesn't even have any potential.

Nealuchi up.

Bottom

Kurthnaga

Pelleas

Oliver

Lehran

Pelleas actually can save signficant turns in part 4 due to being able to handle the 4-2 reinforcements. Above or around endgame beorcs.

[Zkirsche]

You might as well tier green units.

You don't control green units though. Two completely different things.

Volug should not be this high. His statistics are great, but eventually his lack of 2-range and gauge totally blows.

I do not agree, his 9 mov and general tankiness comes in very handy for quite a bit, and with S strike and a good deal of bexp for part 4 (maybe enough for savage), makes him quite the offensive monster.

His gauge isn't even that bad, my Rendulf had MVP every chapter after I got him and I never had any major transformation issues.

Edward should probably be in this tier, though I'm kind of theory winging this.

He could go there, but I feel Jill > Edward over long term thanks to mobility and flight. Nolan's overall better in 1-2 and 1-3 as well, and much easier to get on par/better than on par.

Zihark could stand to drop, though.

better durability due to Flare

I'm sorry, but flare alone does not give you better durability than mister avo tank with monstrous HP/Def. Although he should drop, definitely.

Meg probably should not be this high. Would you pick her over Geoffrey/Brom/Sigrun etc?

Definitely over Brom, as she can be much more useful over the course of part 1 (bexp gives her plenty of speed, too, so her stats aren't even that bad).

[Paperblade]

You don't control green units though. Two completely different things.

We are tiering units based on a general pick order (obviously some units become better or worse if we have/lack other units. For example, I would not second pick Aran if I had first picked Nolan). As Ike, Micaiah, and Sothe are free, tiering them is pointless.

For a similar idea, basic lands are not considered in general rankings for Magic: the Gathering Drafts because you aren't required to draft them to be able to use them (yes, each pack has at least 1 basic land, but that is due to the nature of booster packs and differences in the games).

I do not agree, his 9 mov and general tankiness comes in very handy for quite a bit, and with S strike and a good deal of bexp for part 4 (maybe enough for savage), makes him quite the offensive monster.

His gauge isn't even that bad, my Rendulf had MVP every chapter after I got him and I never had any major transformation issues.

Volug would need to compensate for the penalties/turns lost in 1-P, 1-1, 1-2, and likely 1-3/1-4 (you are not getting Volug and Nolan, and Volug + Ilyana/Aran is questionable at best) just to tie with Edward. That's 10-15 turns Edward is ahead just from the word go.

Same dealio with Jill, except Jill can't even be fielded in 1-8 (which is much more difficult than, say, 1-6 or 1-7), which puts her further behind.

I'm sorry, but flare alone does not give you better durability than mister avo tank with monstrous HP/Def. Although he should drop, definitely.

4-3 has a ton of 1-2 range enemies, several of which are Crossbow Warriors. While I haven't used Ilyana in a draft, I have used Calill and she basically solo'd the top half of 4-P and ran right down the middle of 4-3. I can't imagine there being a significant difference, especially since Ilyana also has the best availability in the game.

Naesala's only real advantage is flying+more move, but the desert is more or less a wide open space.

Definitely over Brom, as she can be much more useful over the course of part 1 (bexp gives her plenty of speed, too, so her stats aren't even that bad).

Keep in mind that Brom saves penalties in 2-1 and 2-2, meaning that Meg is something like 6-8 turns behind by default.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Paperblade

[Zkirsche]

We are tiering units based on a general pick order (obviously some units become better or worse if we have/lack other units. For example, I would not second pick Aran if I had first picked Nolan). As Ike, Micaiah, and Sothe are free, tiering them is pointless.

He didn't say that in the first post, and I assumed it was simply which units were best in a draft playthrough environment (for lack of a better word).

Volug would need to compensate for the penalties/turns lost in 1-P, 1-1, 1-2, and likely 1-3/1-4 (you are not getting Volug and Nolan, and Volug + Ilyana/Aran is questionable at best) just to tie with Edward. That's 10-15 turns Edward is ahead just from the word go.

10-15 turns? Where on earth did you get that number? His penalties lost me 6 turns. That's it. He wouldn't have cleared 1-3/1-1 faster (he probably does so slower than Nolan in the first place considering he has less atk and worse durability) and I even doubt 1-4 too. 7-8 turns, at the most.

And of course Volug is incredibly useful after he joins, easily saving that many turns after the first few chapters, and then we have part three where noone can even compare.

Same dealio with Jill, except Jill can't even be fielded in 1-8 (which is much more difficult than, say, 1-6 or 1-7), which puts her further behind.

Flying + part 3 would help quite a bit. She finishes 3-13 faster than Edward, that's for sure.

4-3 has a ton of 1-2 range enemies, several of which are Crossbow Warriors. While I haven't used Ilyana in a draft, I have used Calill and she basically solo'd the top half of 4-P and ran right down the middle of 4-3. I can't imagine there being a significant difference, especially since Ilyana also has the best availability in the game.

Except that my point was about how she is not more durable than him in almost any scenario, with the sole exception of crossbow users.

Naesala's only real advantage is flying+more move, but the desert is more or less a wide open space.

Meh, I said he should drop anyway, but more for the availability compared to the durability.

Keep in mind that Brom saves penalties in 2-1 and 2-2, meaning that Meg is something like 6-8 turns behind by default.

If you need a second DB unit then Meg can be very useful. However, the gap between her and Fiona does need to close.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Cesc Fabregas

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I do not agree, his 9 mov and general tankiness comes in very handy for quite a bit, and with S strike and a good deal of bexp for part 4 (maybe enough for savage), makes him quite the offensive monster.

His gauge isn't even that bad, my Rendulf had MVP every chapter after I got him and I never had any major transformation issues.

Where does his 9 mov save turns? I don't doubt his offense being good, but his resistance and avoid aren't good enough to allow him to fully utilize laguz movment in the desert (Elsleep is ass). I suppose he's better in the other routes, but that's part of the appeal to pick him instead of, say, Zihark. And if he goes on other routes, he's getting outclassed by people like Kieran.

Lack of 2-range will always suck balls and is his main problem. As for gauge, it is undoubtably inferior to no gauge, and 3-12 has enough combat to make Volug detransform and reach max transform the next turn on a given enemy phase.

He could go there, but I feel Jill > Edward over long term thanks to mobility and flight. Nolan's overall better in 1-2 and 1-3 as well, and much easier to get on par/better than on par.

Edward's main selling point as a DB unit is penalty wins. Jill also goes away for 1-8 and so we're looking at something like a 9 turn deficit on availability alone.

I'm sorry, but flare alone does not give you better durability than mister avo tank with monstrous HP/Def. Although he should drop, definitely.

No really.

Naesala would probably be better though, if it weren't for crossbows.

Definitely over Brom, as she can be much more useful over the course of part 1 (bexp gives her plenty of speed, too, so her stats aren't even that bad).

But does she save turns? Odds are you have another DB to rely on to kill Ike, and Meg is rather extra.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Save some space.

Edited January 29, 2011 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Narga_Rocks]

Not even an "oops"?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

10-15 turns? Where on earth did you get that number? His penalties lost me 6 turns. That's it. He wouldn't have cleared 1-3/1-1 faster (he probably does so slower than Nolan in the first place considering he has less atk and worse durability) and I even doubt 1-4 too. 7-8 turns, at the most.

Aside from 1-P and 1-1, Eddie saves turns in:

-Making Beastfoe more accessible in 1-4, though I don't know the details of 1-4 Sothe/Micaiah 7 turn clear. 6 turns is also possibly if you have Ilyana or something.

-1-6-2, in being able to shove Sothe; Jill drop is problematic with the initial enemies.

-1-8 is self-explanatory and worth upwards of 3 turns

And of course Volug is incredibly useful after he joins, easily saving that many turns after the first few chapters, and then we have part three where noone can even compare.

Compared to buffed DBers, he actually doesn't help that much, again due to lack of 2-range. 1-8 he does help, but elsewhere, not that much. In part 3, he's actually not one of the better DB picks.

Flying + part 3 would help quite a bit. She finishes 3-13 faster than Edward, that's for sure.

Jill has a harder time killing Ike due to speed cap. Edward, meanwhile, has reliable proc chances.

Except that my point was about how she is not more durable than him in almost any scenario, with the sole exception of crossbow users.

While Naesala has around +15 hp, +2 def, and +20 avoid, HM stats say enemies have hit rates averaging around 150 to Naesala's 100+ avoid. He can't dodge enough even with a NM stat drop to the point where he can make up for free healing.

Not even an "oops"?

Is that a rule or something? Must post "oops" when it's an obviously accidental double post?

Edited January 29, 2011 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Junkhead]

Laura up once I have a good argument.

Pelleas WAY up.

Leanne > Sanaki, easily.

Edward seems a little low.

Regarding Laura: I can't honestly put her higher when most of her Part 1 existence is self-improvement only to be overall similiar, if not worse, than those that are above her at Middle tier.

Regarding Pelleas: What does he really have going for him? He joins pretty late, and needs to be spoonfed kills just so he can be a below-average combat unit. Thunder forges only help his eh accuracy with Dark magic. So his only considerably *decent* use are staves with an early Crowning.

Regarding Leanne > Sanaki: Sure.

Regarding Edward: He does, in our opinion. Yet, I was afraid people would complain with "His durability sucks and he doesn't dodge enough" even though he can save you lots and lots of turns at Part 1. I'll sure raise him.

Lessee, Fiona shouldn't be a tier over Lyre. Similar availability, and with all that bexp, getting them good is the same as each other: easy.

Modified to Lyre > Fiona. Lyre's avaibility is enough to give her a great time for self-improvement during Part 3 to become a better unit in the end despite issues like the Cat gauge. Fiona doesn't even have much time to her. Not to mention, she costs you more resources on a small and weak team. Lyre might only cost you an Energy Drop and BEXP. She also has the advantage to use Blossom to get her cranky stats liek Str & Def up.

Nealuchi is way too low, Lucia should not be a tier ahead of him.

I raised him.

And by God, Reyson is upper middle, at the very least. Vigoring units is even more awesome when trying to rush through chapters. He's also > rafiel due to better availability.

Unlike standard effeciency runs, Herons aren't as much as a boon here. It pretty much depends on your team, really. You can't rely on them too much considering you don't have a full team of great units to make good use of a second move. I didn't even see any impact of their absense for other than Endgame. And even then, you save yourself 3 turns. In fact, I think that your lack of men to protect him could rather work against you at times. At last, there's that availability issues they have. That certainly does hurt them. But they certainly can't be worse than a few down there, so I will raise them a bit.

The hawks should be above Tibarn for also being quite godly except having more availability.

Sure.

Rendulf should be in upper mid.

Done.

Rhys and Mist should be in the same tier (both have similar roles).

Done that too. 8)

Soren should be in Mid. His lol durability and lolmov hurts him. I would even argue Jill for high.

I don't think so, actually. Well, his durability is indeed garbage. But who says he isn't getting the Ike support (Which, he obviously is) which would be turned into an A by 3-5 and then be pretty untouchable. By then, he can even reach 3rd tier with an early Crowning and have *passable* durability. There's also a Seraph Robe (3-1) and a Dracoshield (3-3) which could easily got to him and fix one of his most important problems. Then at Part 4, having a 2HKO'ing machine with 1-2 range is pretty excellent for the endless routs. Movement issues? There's Celerity.

Kieran and Geoffrey should probably be in the same tier (better 2-3 and 3-9 vs not existing in 3-11 and 4-1) (3-E is a joke).

Yeah.

Gatrie should be in upper mid thanks to mov.

Celerity, anyone? But I just moved him down a bit anyway.

Mia should be below Jill thanks to mov and a more comparable team.

No need to argue Jill to High now, as I did get her higher in exchange of lowering Mia to Upper-Middle.

The premise for a draft list is flight > movement > availability > initial combat utility > prevention of penalties > need of resources (considering you're going to condense it into so few units, resources are non issues).

No, not really. Flying and Movement doesn't make you auto-God. You have to be there at a reasonable time contributing with not just one chapter you could 1-turn while other characters that don't benefit from such luxuries (Flying & High Mov) are breaking their butts doing stuff earlier that would otherwise save you more turns. Hence why Royals aren't Top tier material. Flying isn't all in this game, unfortunately.

EDIT: Sigrun a whole tier below Tanith seems dodgy to me. Thoughts?

EDIT2: Also, all Herons above Lucia.

Sigrun got above Rofl.

And the Herons...even though I didn't get them above Lucia, I did get them at the same tier, slightly below.

Mordecai, by my experiences, wasn't even Middle tier material. He didn't do shit before Skrimir showed up, and Skrimir would have outperformed him afterwards.

Mordy just needs a Speedwings and Blossom to fix his endless non-doubling issues.

Herons are too low. Below Volke? Volke does nothing. Like, seriously. You recruit him, he participates if you couldn't spare a flyer to go over and one round Izuka (and between Sages and Laguz owning the desert just as well, you should be able to have a flyer, especially as Tibbers and Elincia are forced in that route). Stefan is even worse since he can't participate in his recruiting chapter even if you want him to (loldesert) and is somehow also above Volke.

The reasoning behind Stefan > Volke is that Stefan, other than being marginally better than Volke for Endgame, actually contributes by killing four enemies at his starting position, which would help with the 4-3 routing, whereas Volke just gains some CEXP while someone goes for Izuka.

Mia > Neph is questionable, Neph reduces penalties in 2-1 and 2-2 and is better than Mia at 3-2 onward since Javelins > Wind Edges (plus Javs can be forged) and you can take Oscar's Short Spear if you need the extra might. 3-P is like a nonfactor anyway so it's Mia's 3-1 vs. liek everything else. Neph can also use some of the CRK's BEXP (or all if you don't have any drafted) which allows another GM to use the GM BEXP for easier part 3.

Nice reasoning. Raising Neph.

Shinon is too high I think. Monobows sucks, and even with Shade the AI is kind of dumb.

I think he amazing Player Phase can let him get up there. Not to mention he has the durability to survive as a wall.

Naesala too high.

Laura too high.

Astrid is too high.

Rolf is too high.

Kyza is too low.

Renning is too high.

BK is too high, since last I checked he's free in 1-9. He does nothing, below Stefan at least.

Naesala, along with Tibarn, got lowered.

Laura is fine where she is.

I think Astrid is okay where she is because she is obviously better than Fiona, and has more availability than the others below them. That way she can become a decent combatant by Part 4 thanks to lances.

Lowered Rolf.

Raised Kyza above Lyre.

BK will lower.

I happen to think Astrid is too low ^^' imo she > Vika. I'm not experienced in drafts though ^^' and Sothe should be in the top tier too imo because he's free .

Vika helps more than Astrid in Part 1. =/

And I thought about getting Sothe but up there, but he only really helps you up to 3-6. After that, he sucks. He's only useful for some treasure looting at 4-3.

Damn. There's alot more to answer. 80

Edited January 29, 2011 by Soul

[Narga_Rocks]

Any chance you'll consider re-arranging this to look like the fe9 draft tier list? Some might disagree, but I think it is more appropriate.

[Junkhead]

Any chance you'll consider re-arranging this to look like the fe9 draft tier list? Some might disagree, but I think it is more appropriate.

Would making it look like the FE9 tier list be a bad thing? I'll try to go with what others say the most.

[Paperblade]

He didn't say that in the first post, and I assumed it was simply which units were best in a draft playthrough environment (for lack of a better word).

I'm of the opinion that that is silly.

10-15 turns? Where on earth did you get that number? His penalties lost me 6 turns. That's it. He wouldn't have cleared 1-3/1-1 faster (he probably does so slower than Nolan in the first place considering he has less atk and worse durability) and I even doubt 1-4 too. 7-8 turns, at the most.

1-P: Edward(3) Leo(2)

1-1: Edward/Nolan (3) Leo(2)

1-2: Edward/Nolan/Laura (3 ) Leo(2)

that's 9 turns, you aren't going to draft Nolan and Volug (as I said), meaning that your best case scenario is Leo and Miccy, unless you're arguing that Miccy can solo at most 3 turns slower than Miccy+Edward (unlikely, on HM Miccy+Leo is something like 15 turns slower than Miccy+Leo+Edward in 1-P and Edward is much better on NM)

And of course Volug is incredibly useful after he joins, easily saving that many turns after the first few chapters, and then we have part three where noone can even compare.

Unlikely. Sothe can 3 turn 1-6-2 with no units, 1-6-1 is quick (Sothe is best to go west due to 1-2 range enemies which Volug struggles with, and even if I'm overestimating the number of 2 range enemies, it is not a significant difference. 1-7 is Micaiah seize, so Volug's advantages mean less unless you are going to have him carry her, but since he only has 9 Spd it is unlikely it will matter since he has more move than any other viable combat unit (indoor chapter) unless you are drafting a LEA member, and if you are it is unlikely having Sothe carry her instead will cause a significant difference.

In 1-8 it is arguable, I doubt there is a significant difference.

1-E is arguable.

Later chapters Volug begins to fall behind due to 1 range lock and gauge.

Flying + part 3 would help quite a bit. She finishes 3-13 faster than Edward, that's for sure.

1 turn faster. Edward saves more in 1-P alone.

Except that my point was about how she is not more durable than him in almost any scenario, with the sole exception of crossbow users.

To ignore Crossbow users is to pretend we are on a different map.

If you need a second DB unit then Meg can be very useful. However, the gap between her and Fiona does need to close.

I agree with this.

Fiona can carry Micaiah with no combat loss when BEXP'd (significant for 1-E and to a lesser extent 1-7), 3-6 barely matters as both have poor move in swamps, 3-12 Meg is probably better, 3-13 neither will be doing anything as your main DB will be going to kill Ike on turn 2-3.

Both are useless in Silver Army due to desert. Canto is useful in Greil Army due to being able to kill a guy (Fiona with Adept+Brave at liek 15/20/1 from BEXP can kill Generals) + reveal fog. In Hawk army both are slowed by thickets (Fiona still wins move), but can kill reinforcements and whatnot. Fiona also has a superior affinity, for what it's worth.

Canto also makes it easier for Fiona to be Vigor'd, which makes her combo very well with Rafiel.

Meg has a bit of availability but I don't think she has a significant combat lead and she is obviously losing out in utility.

[Junkhead]

Why did you move Ike to Top again? I can compromise at just below Titania, but he gets passed quickly enough by upper mid GMs.

I think Ike is better than Titania because he is free and he is better before Titan- Yeah Titania over Ike. >_>

Volug should not be this high. His statistics are great, but eventually his lack of 2-range and gauge totally blows.

Lack of 2-range at the DB for Part 1 & 3 isn't a problem at at. And his gauge isn't so bad at all. It raises and decreases decently.

Edward should probably be in this tier, though I'm kind of theory winging this. It should be easy to get him on par or close to Zihark by the time Zihark joins, and he saves 1-P and 1-1 penalties while still helping the other chapters run smoother. I'd put Edward next to Nolan, though above or below is a good question, and I'm feeling everyone would probably lean Nolan.

Edward to High, done. :)

He's usually like, second to fourth pick to the likes of Haar, Titania & Nolan.

Gatrie's move definitely does not belong here.

Again, Celerity fixes this pretty easily. He's also very durable and picks up his offense quickly.

Not sure Mia should be at the top of Upper Mid. This isn't HM where she has significant offensive leads over other GM.

Mia can still grab Adept and Max Mt/Crit. forges for amazing offense that can even 1RKO Generals. How is that not awesome? Her lack of *good* 2-range isn't a problem for Part 3. By Part 4, she has access to Storm swords that 3HKO enemies not-Generals. She can 2HKO with Tempest blades.

Why did you move Neph over Oscar?

Nephenee is basically Mia Lite. She can grab Adept and nice lance forges for great offense that Oscar doesn't compare to until he raises his Atk and reaches enough AS to double reliably in the first place. Not to mention she saves you from penalties at Part 2.

Naesala and maybe Tibarn don't belong in this tier. Compare Naesala to Ilyana if you will, and you'll find that just in their shared chapters, Ilyana wins due to existent 1-2 range, better durability due to Flare, and no crossbow weakness despite the move advantage.

Already lowered the two bird royals. Still in Upper-Mid, though. Just near the bottom.

Oscar > Boyd also, though not that intent on this one.

Shinon should drop. Range lock does not bode well for sparse unit speed runs.

Done and done.

Meg probably should not be this high. Would you pick her over Geoffrey/Brom/Sigrun etc?

I probably would if I didn't have a better option for the DB earlygame. Meg isn't that terrible here due to easy resource access, availability for self-improvement and the fact that this is NM. I still lowered her a bit, though.

Rolf too.

Yep.

Cain/Giffca should drop. Due to the speed of endgame, I highly doubt they'll be able to save more turns than Geoffrey does in 2-3 and 3-9 alone.

Alright.

How about Lower-Middle, below Callil?

Danved that much > than Makalov is iffy.

Well, just look at the people sorrounding them. Also, despite Danved's lack of a mount, he has better stats and can wield lances for better offense and 2-range, easily making him a better Part 4 candidate. He's also helping more at 3-9 than Makalov is even helping at 2-3 (Considering 2-3 we take the pacifist clear, for max BEXP).

I agree that Sigrun probably shouldn't be a tier below Tanith.

That's been dealt with.

Lucia could be higher, but I don't know where.

I think she's fine where she is at the moment...

Calill should be in mid, she is very comparable to Marcia, and during part 4, Calill vs Marcia is like Ilyana vs Naesala.

For one thing, her offense pretty much blows. Even though she's hitting Res, her Atk is rather crappy and 3-4HKO's enemies. She needs to be fed a few kills under the influence of Paragon for her to be decent by Part 4. Marcia can fly, and has better 2-range and durability. I can't even raise her above Brom because her availability is something that she desires.

Lethe could be higher.

Over Makalov, Lucia and the Herons? Maybe I'll just lower Tormod a bit and put her on top of Lucia. But that's as far as it seems to go.

Renning could be lower.

As proven by dondon151, Renning is actually a great Endgame filler. He can use Hammer and Vague Katti to clear off Generals quickly for us at 4-E-1. It helps that he has high Mov with Canto, which is great when repositioning for Heron refreshment. Sure, it's only for Endgame. But he's certainly decent there.

I agree that the herons shouldn't be this low.

I actually just aproved of Integrity's request. They are now above Lucia.

Vika/Tormod/Muarim gaps should not be this large. We're talking, like, 2 chapters of difference and they all function fairly well in 1-8.

Muarim can actually kill enemies and survive more than two rounds of enemy combat at Part 4, even without Resolve. Give him Resolve, and he'll contribute with actual onerounding combat. Tormod is great for his Part 1, but by Part 4, all he can do is burn down doors with Meteor. Vika is easily the worst due to mediocre combat. I can't find a use for her at Part 4 at all. But her Part 1 is just 1RKO'ing weaksauce enemies like Mages and ferry Micaiah up to the throne at 1-E.

Mist should be bottom. She's like Lyre, but doesn't even have any potential.

She can at least heal. And she has avilability to that over the other late-joiners and their only Endgame-utility.

Nealuchi up.

He's like Vika with one more chapter of availability and slightly better stats...

Pelleas actually can save signficant turns in part 4 due to being able to handle the 4-2 reinforcements. Above or around endgame beorcs.

He can't, unless he's spoonfed. His durability is hideous for him to be left alone there.

He didn't say that in the first post, and I assumed it was simply which units were best in a draft playthrough environment (for lack of a better word).

Yes, I didn't think of this list as "Who is most likely to be picked first to last", just "Who's better than who". Doesn't mean you still can't use this to conclude who is most likely to be chosen.

[Paperblade]

For one thing, her offense pretty much blows. Even though she's hitting Res, her Atk is rather crappy and 3-4HKO's enemies. She needs to be fed a few kills under the influence of Paragon for her to be decent by Part 4. Marcia can fly, and has better 2-range and durability. I can't even raise her above Brom because her availability is something that she desires.

Woah woah woah. Did you forget we're on NM, meaning we have BEXP coming out our ears? I was able to throw all the Part 2 BEXP at Calill (this is slightly less viable if you are using Neph or Brom) and she just ORKO'd everything in Part 4.

The CRK's only advantage on Calill is not getting a penalty in 2-3. That's it. 2-E makes no difference. In 3-9 she is by far the fastest clear, due to Meteor. In Part 4 she is again awesome, as she has no move penalty in the desert, so she's much better there than anyone not Marcia (and Marcia gets owned by Crossbows, so yeah)

She can at least heal. And she has avilability to that over the other late-joiners and their only Endgame-utility.

Healing in FE10 NM

Words that come to mind:

Extraneous

Superfluous

Unnecessary

Edited January 29, 2011 by Paperblade