Zanarkin Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Herein lies the real balance flaw when IS changed the game to allow unlimited tier 3s in the localisation, instead of the 3? you could have in the Japanese version. Just three is not enough though, make it Five (+ Ike, and miccy, who cares about sothe) and i'd agree that its balanced. With three, you'd be turtling through out the whole game. And who wants that. Edited July 9, 2011 by Jhen Mohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 The problem isn't the number of people in the third tier, but how powerful the skills are. Just need to be toned down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) The problem isn't the number of people in the third tier, but how powerful the skills are. Just need to be toned down a bit. If you tone down the amount of units in third tier to just a few, the problem of overpowered Skills goes down. Even if its overpowered, they still have an activation rate, affected by biorythm, and it doesn't have a chance of being activated by everyone and their mother. Edited July 9, 2011 by Jhen Mohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Yes, but why limit everyone's stats (which is the big deal, at least for me, of third tiers) over a skill? Just make Mastery Scrolls if it's that much of a problem, and you control the skill issue without limiting people to only the second tier of classes for the majority of characters. Otherwise you're limited in who you can bring along quite sharply just due to the stats making it harder to damage people well. But really, I'd rather limit the skills a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hmmmmm... A tier 2 playthrough... tier one? perhaps i shall do that some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Would you even be able to damage anyone with Tier one units? I'd assume the enemy units base RES/DEF would be too high to damage them, maybe even their SPD to hit them really. I think the only way that'd work is if you count Laguz as Tier 1 due to a lack of promotion, and then used the Royals. :P Tier 2 seems plausible, just seems kind of... unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Masteries suck because they're all effectively the same damn thing with different activation rates. Waste of time and space. Why not come up with something actually interesting, like Pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Would you even be able to damage anyone with Tier one units? I'd assume the enemy units base RES/DEF would be too high to damage them, maybe even their SPD to hit them really. I think the only way that'd work is if you count Laguz as Tier 1 due to a lack of promotion, and then used the Royals. :P Tier 2 seems plausible, just seems kind of... unfair. There is a video of Leonardo OHKO'ing Levail with a critical. Though it needs quite some planning. And Easy mode would help Tier 1, because of + 5 to all stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I'd like the mastery skills better if we had to use occult scrolls to get them, like the satori signs with the laguz. That way you have a choice if you want the masteries or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 There is a video of Leonardo OHKO'ing Levail with a critical. Though it needs quite some planning. And Easy mode would help Tier 1, because of + 5 to all stats. Only if you got your hands on a Japanese game so that they didn't promote. With EM EXP gain, you'd get like eight level ups from one laguz in part 3 if a tier 1 got the kills... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Besides the fact that a unit can only get 100 EXp max... :P That's where hacks come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I take it you wouldn't mind having half your team getting Astra'd/Deadeye'd/Whatever'd, then? Every skill has it's flaw. In many cases, if you found that an enemy with skills (let alone masteries) a problem, you could send in someone with Nihil equipped. Either that or exploit that flaw said skills have to take doen that enemy. Whether it be the Jugdral games (which did have enemies that could use Astra, Luna, or Sol on whoever they attack), or the Tellius games.With that said, I think it would make a good challenge. Seeing enemies with masteries that aren't Oliver (who can be recruited), Lekain, Levial, Black Knight, Dheginsea, or Sephiran (who can also be recruited, but requires new game plus) would be an interesting throwback to the Jugdral games. Just remove the damage multiplier to complete the throwback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Shame I don't have time, Otherwise, I'd gladly do that for Pal users. :( But yeah... New Zealand means, no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Well the damage modifiers are the only issue of the mastery skills really. Without them they're just an ordinary skill tied to your class really. :P But without a damage modifier the enemy having mastery skills wouldn't bother me. But yeah, just Occult Scrolls, as opposed to getting it automatically, is what makes the most sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't hate mastery skills. Yes, they're powerful. But they're also really cool. They help third tier characters feel cool and special rather than "just" characters with inflated stats. They also help balance the game, because they help weaker characters compete offensively with stronger characters (for example, Haar isn't really improved by having Stun because he's a baller anyway. But someone like Tanith or Marcia gets a lot of benefit out of Stun because they often struggle to kill enemies on their own). WRT JP Master Crowns, there were a total of seven Master Crowns (but two of them were hidden treasures, which I think is a poor idea). Personally, I like to promote more than seven units, but having 2 or 3 third tier units for each army in Part 4 sounds pretty acceptable, even if the game does end up pushing you to deploy some Royals in Endgame because of the lower number of third tiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I read this title and was like "wait what??" I mean, I've always found them quite useful. =/ I just wish stun wasn't almost always a kill, and yeah the dead-eye thing. Sometimes they can work... But at least they can kill at all, maybe they just added another effect just in case it didn't turn out to be a kill =o And of course they look cool too ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 WRT JP Master Crowns, there were a total of seven Master Crowns (but two of them were hidden treasures, which I think is a poor idea). You sure? I remember there being at least ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 You're a long way through the game before third tier masteries become ubiquitous. Prior to that, they either don't exist, or effectively don't exist because only a small handful of already-ORKOing-so-what's-the-difference units have them. I personally think it makes the endless Routs of Part 4 a little bit more palatable. It's kind of cool to just have a bunch of people mowing through enemies for the last portion of the game, and it's an equalizer of sorts for units that aren't already god-mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 You sure? I remember there being at least ten. According to this site, there are seven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I read this title and was like "wait what??" I mean, I've always found them quite useful. =/ I just wish stun wasn't almost always a kill, and yeah the dead-eye thing. Sometimes they can work... But at least they can kill at all, maybe they just added another effect just in case it didn't turn out to be a kill =o And of course they look cool too ^^ The main complaint though is that people feel that they're "too broken". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 The main complaint though is that people feel that they're "too broken". Oh ok. Are they meaning broken as in that complaint on the dead eye and how everyone pretty much gets killed anyway? If not then I don't entirely understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Oh ok. Are they meaning broken as in that complaint on the dead eye and how everyone pretty much gets killed anyway? If not then I don't entirely understand Broken as in all masteries multiply damage except for Aether, Astra (which kills anyways), Bane, Lethality (which kills anyways), Flare, and Corona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alabaster Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I found some of them to be quite useful. Well, at least they are in hard mode. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revoked Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well I think Flare is probably the most useful since you can just put Tormod or Ilyana in a crowd and it will usually save them if you're lucky like me (PEMN). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yeah I always liked being able to heal up with flare but it can definitely be really good when the opponent has a lot of resistance to begin with. I use Soren though so it also saves me when he uses plain old adept (even better when he can attack twice before adept) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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